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Jonas Staal
The Echo Initiative
67
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Posted - 2014.07.25 14:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
I got to a point where I did not know what to skill for during my absence, and figured I might aswel start training for command ships. I know usualy you know what you want, and then skill towards it, so this is kind a backwards.
So my question is: What's the current state of the command ships, What are they good at, What are they used for?
Besides PvP,do they serve purpose in PvE? |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2085
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Posted - 2014.07.25 15:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
several command ships can be used as a cheaper tengu for farming sleepers. they will do great in lvl3 missions, but so do faction BCs. you can use them fo rlvl4s, but marauders and faction battleships will usually do better.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1146
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Posted - 2014.07.25 15:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
You can get an impressive (Nearly BS or better) amount of DPS out of them, while easily sporting a BS sized tank, they are good for PVP and PVE but they tend to be called as primary in PVP as the Links can make the difference between a win and a loss.
I have a Sleipnir that does just over 900dps and can tank 3k dps for 90 seconds, A Damnation with well over 300k EHP, The Eos was instrumental in us winning 3 rounds of The New Eden Open with 'drop and forget drones', and of course running Links for your group is always appreciated.
So yes, after training Command ships you will find all sorts of reasons to use them.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
149
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Posted - 2014.07.25 15:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:You can get an impressive (Nearly BS or better) amount of DPS out of them, while easily sporting a BS sized tank, they are good for PVP and PVE but they tend to be called as primary in PVP as the Links can make the difference between a win and a loss.
I have a Sleipnir that does just over 900dps and can tank 3k dps for 90 seconds, A Damnation with well over 300k EHP, The Eos was instrumental in us winning 3 rounds of The New Eden Open with 'drop and forget drones', and of course running Links for your group is always appreciated.
So yes, after training Command ships you will find all sorts of reasons to use them. Blaster astarte is kind of mind-boggling. |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1146
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Posted - 2014.07.25 15:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Goldiiee wrote:You can get an impressive (Nearly BS or better) amount of DPS out of them, while easily sporting a BS sized tank, they are good for PVP and PVE but they tend to be called as primary in PVP as the Links can make the difference between a win and a loss.
I have a Sleipnir that does just over 900dps and can tank 3k dps for 90 seconds, A Damnation with well over 300k EHP, The Eos was instrumental in us winning 3 rounds of The New Eden Open with 'drop and forget drones', and of course running Links for your group is always appreciated.
So yes, after training Command ships you will find all sorts of reasons to use them. Blaster astarte is kind of mind-boggling. Oh yeah forgot about that one, up to 1200+ DPS, and easy to reach 150k+ EHP.
Yeah OP you will grind your teeth off waiting for the skills to finish training, so if you going to be away for awhile do a remap (If necessary) and when you get back you'll have a blast with them.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Tij Lamor
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.07.25 17:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Command ships are intended as fleet boosters and there are better choices for solo activities. With warfare link modules and mindlink implant they will be a game changing addition to any fleet - including PVE if your corporation runs fleet missions. |
Dato Koppla
Elite Guards
657
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Posted - 2014.07.26 00:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dual XL-ASB Sleipnir has amazing capless tank, capless guns, 800+dps, neuts (or you can even wedge on a link there) and isn't too slow for a Battlecruiser. Sleipnir alone is reason enough to train Command Ships IMO. They other Command Ships are also great, I also like the Eos and Nighthawk. |
Alexa Coates
Space Wolves ind. New Eden's Misfits Alliance
737
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Posted - 2014.07.26 00:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
I used a sleipnir and can confirm it's a god-machine. I use it to run missions, rat, and strike fear into the hearts of noobies.
also, regardless of the one you get, spoil it with faction and dead space mods. That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers. |
Ginger Barbarella
1973
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Posted - 2014.07.26 03:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
I ran a Sleip for a while after the hull change, and I can confirm it's a great ship. I'm partial to projectile these days, so it's sexiness is good for the ego. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Redwyne Vyruk
DeepSpace Manufacturers Brothers of Tangra
3
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Posted - 2014.07.26 10:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
comments on caldari command ships?i'm mostly interested in nighthawk |
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3359
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Posted - 2014.07.26 11:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
The way I see it, they're basically useless. A T3 can do cloaky nullified links and scanning and on grid, a HAC does the job better imo.
(edit: not the job of doing links, but the job of killing stuff, just to clarify). Oh god. |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1146
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Posted - 2014.07.26 12:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:The way I see it, they're basically useless. A T3 can do cloaky nullified links and scanning and on grid, a HAC does the job better imo.
(edit: not the job of doing links, but the job of killing stuff, just to clarify). Command Ships; More DPS by at least 30%, More tank by up to a couple hundred %, with less agility than a HAC and no SP loss for getting killed.
Redwyne Vyruk; I never bothered to use missiles as I find turrets to be more my thing, so I can't help you with the Nighthawk.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3360
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Posted - 2014.07.26 13:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Uh-huh. Oh god. |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
533
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Posted - 2014.07.26 13:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Command ships are the BC version of HAC's. Look at the bonuses.
Sleipnir Vs. Vagabond Astarte Vs. Deimos Nighthawk Vs. Cerberus Absolution Vs. Zealot
These ships are a bit slower and less agile, but better in every other way. If you dont like command ships, it's because you haven't flown one. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3362
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Posted - 2014.07.26 14:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
You're right, I haven't flown one and I don't intend to. I don't see the point. Oh god. |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
534
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Posted - 2014.07.26 14:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:You're right, I haven't flown one and I don't intend to. I don't see the point.
Then your input in this thread is entirely invalid. Thanks for playing. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3362
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Posted - 2014.07.26 14:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
I never offered any input, but seeing as you're the current authority on the matter, why don't you tell me what is so good about CSes? Oh god. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories Vertical.
674
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Posted - 2014.07.26 14:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Flying them (my case: Eos and Sleipnir, Abso got nerfed hard with that hotdog-harbinger-look) whenever possible, CS are beasts up-close in pvp. They usually pack close-to-BS dps with cruiser-accuracy and tanks that exceed regular BS by a margin. For the Eos, it allows you to put 3 links with med smartbombs, a 150k ehp tank and 600 dps on the field, which is most awesome for wormholes since cloaky links can't jump and safe up against competent people <.< Downside is the lack of battleship sized mods (heavy CB, heavy neut, large smart) in comparison, and also the significantly shorter range. T1 BS and CS fitted are pretty close in price.
Unlike HACs, they're rather slow, making some ~700m/s-1300m/s (damnation - nanosleip) cold, which is slow enough to be catchable by any t1 cruiserblob there is. They warp at a medium pace, just not as fast as HACs (Ishtars...) do. They also got huge ass signatures, people can frequently hit you just fine with rage torps.
If you're flying alone, there is no way around going into webrange, diving into all of the scrams, webs and neuts, else they'll just move away once dropping low. 720s on a sleipnir can work solo, mainly cause shieldcruisers can drop from 10% shields straight down into their pod if you got a good trajectory. Expect to get blobbed to **** and people not engaging you without logistics support, be prepared for that (iE maulus-bro or such)
If you're going for a gang, CS are awesome for their t2 resists and fitting space (beam-absos, rail-vultures, rail-astartes, HAM-nighthawks/blaster-astartes with dual neuts for busting caps), but aren't that cost-efficient on a larger scale as other alternatives.
You can throw two command links on near any configuration, and the eos even mounts three without missing out on dps (yeah, drones). If you are more into playing the game as opposed to work your way to victory, on-grid boosting is awesome (for the guy doing it). "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3362
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Posted - 2014.07.26 14:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yeah, I've noted the Eos as a worthwhile CS because it has freedom with its high slots. I still wouldn't use it personally because I feel a T3 offers greater utility by being off grid. I guess if you need the extra DPS, a CS could be useful, but I just feel a cloaky nullified T3 with optional scanning bonuses is too valuable to ignore. Oh god. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
847
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Posted - 2014.07.26 15:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Clocking in to give a big +1 to the Astarte. I've used them on gates and stations for in ur face brawling. They take people by surprise, and by the time they figure it out, it's too late to de-aggress. 1200 DPS with medium gun tracking is a great platform.
Someone asked about the Nighthawk/Caldari ship. It's known for great tank, not so much DPS. I'd probably fly the Vulture if I was to take one into a fight, never tried either ship though. |
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Ginger Barbarella
1974
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Posted - 2014.07.26 15:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Riot Girl wrote:You're right, I haven't flown one and I don't intend to. I don't see the point. Then your input in this thread is entirely invalid. Thanks for playing.
This. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3366
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 16:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Edit: removed unconstructive posting. Thanks ISDs. Oh god. |
Redwyne Vyruk
DeepSpace Manufacturers Brothers of Tangra
3
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Posted - 2014.07.26 23:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:Riot Girl wrote:The way I see it, they're basically useless. A T3 can do cloaky nullified links and scanning and on grid, a HAC does the job better imo.
(edit: not the job of doing links, but the job of killing stuff, just to clarify). Command Ships; More DPS by at least 30%, More tank by up to a couple hundred %, with less agility than a HAC and no SP loss for getting killed. Redwyne Vyruk; I never bothered to use missiles as I find turrets to be more my thing, so I can't help you with the Nighthawk.
i misswrote what i was asking, my bad, i was asking about the boosts mainly as my boosting toons doens't have combat skills so i wont' bring him in PVP |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3381
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Posted - 2014.07.26 23:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
CSes provide better fleet boosts but they don't cloak, don't scan and don't pull their weight in a fight. 3x stratios + 1x Legion is the way to go tbh imo. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. Oh god. |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1147
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Posted - 2014.07.26 23:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Redwyne Vyruk wrote:i misswrote what i was asking, my bad, i was asking about the boosts mainly as my boosting toons doens't have combat skills so i wont' bring him in PVP The boosts are standard and what they give you depends on what your boosting, so here's an example of the difference between a no-link ship and an linked ship. (Linked ''Boosted'' with a Vulture with T2 command links and a mindlinked clone)
Without a Booster [Statistics - Goldiiee] Effective HP: 50,932 (Eve: 40,301) Tank Ability: 3,126.22 DPS Shield Resists - EM: 87.70%, Ex: 75.39%, Ki: 79.45%, Th: 80.31% Armor Resists - EM: 91.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 72.38% Capacitor (Stable at 88.99%) Targeting range - 87,500 m Scan Res - 275.00 mm Sensor strength -23.20 Warp Align Time - 8.43s Volley Damage: 3,213.30 DPS: 1,044.15
With a Vulture T2 Links Booster, with Caldari Navy Mindlink. [Statistics - Goldiiee] Effective HP: 64,939 (Eve: 51,945) Tank Ability: 5,283.07 DPS Shield Resists - EM: 90.46%, Ex: 80.92%, Ki: 82.49%, Th: 84.74% Armor Resists - EM: 91.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 72.38% Targeting range - 152,698 m Scan Res - 302.50 mm Sensor strength -35.21 Warp Align Time - 7.59s Capacitor (Stable at 88.99%) Volley Damage: 3,213.30 DPS: 1,044.15
So yes your Vulture pilot will add effectiveness to your other pilot, as long as it is not in warp or getting killed by the scanning toon your aggressors brought to find it. It might be good to note that the ISK spent on training and shipping and implants for a Command Links toon it could be cheaper to put top end deadspace mods on your PVP toon's frigates
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
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Posted - 2014.07.27 00:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Command ships are borderline overpowered right now, the drawback is that regular T1 battlecruisers are garbage ATM so you'll be training skills for a long time before you see any benefit. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3382
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 00:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
They're not overpowered, they're ******* CBCs... Oh god. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
345
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Posted - 2014.07.27 00:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Confirming that Nighthawk is a bad ass ship.
I like to run it with crap dps and 2 links and a fat tank.
XL ASB with 95k health and a AB makes it fun if people primary it.
Pulling 1300 self rep to help the logi keep it on the field makes it great when primarried.
With 5 launcher and 2 links they will go after you and you will laugh. |
O'nira
United System's Commonwealth
18
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Posted - 2014.07.27 01:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
some of the numbers in this thread seem to be exaggerated just a tad. |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1147
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Posted - 2014.07.27 01:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
O'nira wrote:some of the numbers in this thread seem to be exaggerated just a tad. Would you prefer screen shots? Or were you not referring to my numbers?
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
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