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Lido Seahawk
Norr Amalgamated Industries
157
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 08:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is this fit worthwhile for pve? Don't remember if I put this together or stole it from somewhere, but now that I have the ISK was thinking doing this for mission running.
EHP is 116k, speed is just shy of 1200 m/s. Cap stable with MWD off. I need to skill up for t2 sentries, where else do I need to improve? Thanks for any input!
Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
100MN Microwarpdrive II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I [empty high slot]
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Warrior II x5 Bouncer I x5 Hammerhead II x5
May I have your stuff? |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
213
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 11:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
You need rigors and target painters otherwise that eft dps is going to fall off a cliff quickly.
Tbh, with the new rattlesnake, the skills you need at the levels you need them at to make a TFI work, you're FAR better off in a rattlesnake, because it does comparable damage with a better tank and needs way less faction pimp (TFI has cpu issues). |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1042
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 12:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lido Seahawk wrote:Is this fit worthwhile for pve? Don't remember if I put this together or stole it from somewhere, but now that I have the ISK was thinking doing this for mission running. EHP is 116k, speed is just shy of 1200 m/s. Cap stable with MWD off. I need to skill up for t2 sentries, where else do I need to improve? Thanks for any input! Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 100MN Microwarpdrive II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I [empty high slot] Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Warrior II x5 Bouncer I x5 Hammerhead II x5
You do mean PVE and not PVP right?
Lots of EHP and buffer tank are generally used for PVP. This fit lacks a way to repair it's shields... Like a shield booster. If you're doing something like incursions with logi on the field this is not necessary of course.
As the other poster said without rigor rigs and a few target painters much of your missile DPS is wasted. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
45
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 12:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
IIshira wrote:
You do mean PVE and not PVP right?
Lots of EHP and buffer tank are generally used for PVP. This fit lacks a way to repair it's shields... Like a shield booster. If you're doing something like incursions with logi on the field this is not necessary of course.
As the other poster said without rigor rigs and a few target painters much of your missile DPS is wasted.
And as a missile/drone ship, you'll be very hard-pressed to find a place in an incursion fleet unless you run them as a corporation. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
339
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 12:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sorry but its a bad fit. Its a buffer tanked PvE ship, with good damage but, as said by others, poor application of its primary damage channel. If you want to make this work you can do some adjusting. The hull itself isn't actually that bad for mission running, but as said by others it can be outclassed rather easily. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 16:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
TFI is a great nullsec anom killer but it's bad at running level fours, the harder level fours have too much DPS and take too long for a 6-damagemod ship's tank to last. You can't count on only facing two damage types, and also in anoms you can fit two nos and shoot the long-distance rats first while you nos cap from the short-distance ones, L4s won't reliably have battleships within 25km for you to suck cap from. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
215
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 18:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:TFI is a great nullsec anom killer but it's bad at running level fours, the harder level fours have too much DPS and take too long for a 6-damagemod ship's tank to last. You can't count on only facing two damage types, and also in anoms you can fit two nos and shoot the long-distance rats first while you nos cap from the short-distance ones, L4s won't reliably have battleships within 25km for you to suck cap from.
You can definitely do it, and prior to the rattlesnake changes it WAS well worth it. But it was pricey and you had to hold your nerve.
Something like this:
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, Example]
6x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile) Drone Link Augmentor II Small Tractor Beam I
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II (Optimal Range Script)
4x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System 2x Drone Damage Amplifier II Co-Processor II
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II
5x Warden II
Sick DPS and as I mentioned UNTIL the rattlesnake changes, it was unrivalled. But it was a bit of a faff to use. The omni is there in case you don't want to use wardens. Stick to wardens and a second painter does well. Not viable in missions with long crawls.
If you don't stuff the triggers, the incoming DPS is managable because of the kill rate on this thing.
But, as I say, a rattlesnake does the same thing with a million times less tank stress and (racial battleships aside) uses the same core skill requirements - missiles and drones. Just use a rattlesnake.
@Garresh: Buffer fits work ok in a dual box situation |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 20:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
TFI probably still beats a Rattlesnake in completion times against Angel and Rogue Drone rats because it's not limited by damage type. Just shoot Seraphims first as they're far-orbit and do EM damage. That's two rat types out of four, since you can't use damagemod-stacked, cap-unstable shield tanks against Blood/Sansha anyway. (EM damage and NOS)
Still don't like TFI in level fours, there's way too much random **** in those like random EM damage cruise missile sentries in Gurista missions to risk that. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
259
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 20:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garresh wrote:Sorry but its a bad fit. Its a buffer tanked PvE ship, with good damage but, as said by others, poor application of its primary damage channel. If you want to make this work you can do some adjusting. The hull itself isn't actually that bad for mission running, but as said by others it can be outclassed rather easily.
Depends on how you use it. I am using something on the lines of 6x T2 Cruise 1x Drone Link II 1x small pulse Afterburner, 2x T2 Invuls, 2x whatever 3x Drone damage amp 4x CN BCU 1x T2 warp speed rig 2x rigor 5x Sentry 5x medium 5x light
But I'm using more than one of these and have a scimi alt walking after them. I prefer it a little bit over the rattlesnake which for my purposes is almost as good (and has like ~300 more on-paper dps).
It's advantage over the rattle is higher agility and subspace speed. Plus it's the highest missile damage platform in game. It's just the question of applying that damage properly. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Lido Seahawk
Norr Amalgamated Industries
157
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 00:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks for all the replies. I'll study a bit more before I spend any isk! May I have your stuff? |
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
340
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 11:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
afkalt wrote:You need rigors and target painters otherwise that eft dps is going to fall off a cliff quickly.
Tbh, with the new rattlesnake, the skills you need at the levels you need them at to make a TFI work, you're FAR better off in a rattlesnake, because it does comparable damage with a better tank and needs way less faction pimp (TFI has cpu issues).
I would have said
MJD 3x artillery, 5x missiles
2 DDA, 2x gyro, 3x BCS
It's what I used for ratting, broke 1100dps and the arty will kill any BC and smaller rat in 1 volley. Over all a very powerful ship when configured for shield. But it's true your application will suffer much without at least the right rigs/TP so unless you already comfortably run missions in a normal phoon or normal raven you might want to start thinking about other options. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
190
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 06:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
no.
Just as good as a standard typhoon but instead a waste of isk, http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
540
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 12:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:afkalt wrote:You need rigors and target painters otherwise that eft dps is going to fall off a cliff quickly.
Tbh, with the new rattlesnake, the skills you need at the levels you need them at to make a TFI work, you're FAR better off in a rattlesnake, because it does comparable damage with a better tank and needs way less faction pimp (TFI has cpu issues). I would have said MJD 3x artillery, 5x missiles 2 DDA, 2x gyro, 3x BCS It's what I used for ratting, broke 1100dps and the arty will kill any BC and smaller rat in 1 volley. Over all a very powerful ship when configured for shield. But it's true your application will suffer much without at least the right rigs/TP so unless you already comfortably run missions in a normal phoon or normal raven you might want to start thinking about other options. [edit] a sample of my fit (not quite exactly the same) [Typhoon Fleet Issue, Typhoon Fleet notank ratter] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Large Micro Jump Drive Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Optical Tracking Computer I, Tracking Speed Script Optical Tracking Computer I, Tracking Speed Script Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Garde II x5 Warrior II x5 Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 High-grade Halo Alpha High-grade Halo Beta High-grade Halo Gamma High-grade Halo Delta High-grade Halo Epsilon Zainou 'Snapshot' Cruise Missiles CM-605 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Motion Prediction MR-705 Zainou 'Deadeye' Guided Missile Precision GP-805 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-905 Zainou 'Deadeye' Rapid Launch RL-1005 The implants will make the ship very pricey but vitals are 1400 dps out to 30km, both guns and missiles will reach out to 100km+. The major problem it has obviously is NO tank, so use that MJD properly and/or gank the target and leave in those missions where kill-targets are the thing.
[TUMBLR] Did you just... I Cant even... [/TUMBLR] |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
90
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 22:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
James Baboli wrote: And as a missile/drone ship, you'll be very hard-pressed to find a place in an incursion fleet unless you run them as a corporation.
It is actually a goal ship in OIC for armor Incs, similar to other options like Vindi, Mach, NM and a few other hulls. The biggest problem is however to find pilots that can fly it really well since it needs a lot more SP than other hulls.
As for L4, if you shield tank the RS might be the better choice. However with a armor tank it performs very similar to the RS, by the higher ROF you save volleys(even with Fury a proper skilled TFI can one volley nearly every BC and Cruiser after painting), free missile damage type selection improves dps on target and the anti frig performance is very good if you compare 2 painters + 2 Omnis, + sentry drones + 2 bonuses Guns vs light drones. However it does need a lot more micromanagement with the movement and rotating the different weapons and painters between targets compared to the RS.
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, armor L4] Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer
Republic Fleet Target Painter Republic Fleet Target Painter Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script Gist B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Garde II x5 Warrior II x10 Garde II x1 |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 08:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:afkalt wrote:You need rigors and target painters otherwise that eft dps is going to fall off a cliff quickly.
Tbh, with the new rattlesnake, the skills you need at the levels you need them at to make a TFI work, you're FAR better off in a rattlesnake, because it does comparable damage with a better tank and needs way less faction pimp (TFI has cpu issues). I would have said MJD 3x artillery, 5x missiles 2 DDA, 2x gyro, 3x BCS It's what I used for ratting, broke 1100dps and the arty will kill any BC and smaller rat in 1 volley. Over all a very powerful ship when configured for shield. But it's true your application will suffer much without at least the right rigs/TP so unless you already comfortably run missions in a normal phoon or normal raven you might want to start thinking about other options. [edit] a sample of my fit (not quite exactly the same) [Typhoon Fleet Issue, Typhoon Fleet notank ratter] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Large Micro Jump Drive Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Optical Tracking Computer I, Tracking Speed Script Optical Tracking Computer I, Tracking Speed Script Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Garde II x5 Warrior II x5 Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 High-grade Halo Alpha High-grade Halo Beta High-grade Halo Gamma High-grade Halo Delta High-grade Halo Epsilon Zainou 'Snapshot' Cruise Missiles CM-605 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Motion Prediction MR-705 Zainou 'Deadeye' Guided Missile Precision GP-805 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-905 Zainou 'Deadeye' Rapid Launch RL-1005 The implants will make the ship very pricey but vitals are 1400 dps out to 30km, both guns and missiles will reach out to 100km+. The major problem it has obviously is NO tank, so use that MJD properly and/or gank the target and leave in those missions where kill-targets are the thing.
Hm lets see less than perfect Rattlesnake:
1x Fed Navy Drone Damage Amp 2x Drone Damage Amplifier II 1x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control 1x Ballistic Control II 1x Signal Amplifier II
1x MJD 3x Fed Navy Omni directional tracking links 2x rat specific hardeners 1x Pith A/B type Large Shield booster (whatever makes you feel comfortable)
5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge/Inferno Fury) 1x Drone link Augmenter II
1x Large Processor Overclocking Unit I 2x Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I (use tech II if you fancy it)
Use Cruise vs BC and BS drones vs anything else
1306 DPS @ 108 km with Warden IIs, 1433 DPS @ 47 km with Garde IIs, not overly expensive to boot with lots of room for further pimping if you fancy that.
How is that?
Why should I use a TFI again? |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
267
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 09:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote: Hm lets see less than perfect Rattlesnake:
1x Fed Navy Drone Damage Amp 2x Drone Damage Amplifier II 1x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control 1x Ballistic Control II 1x Signal Amplifier II
1x MJD 3x Fed Navy Omni directional tracking links 2x rat specific hardeners 1x Pith A/B type Large Shield booster (whatever makes you feel comfortable)
5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge/Inferno Fury) 1x Drone link Augmenter II
1x Large Processor Overclocking Unit I 2x Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I (use tech II if you fancy it)
Use Cruise vs BC and BS drones vs anything else
1306 DPS @ 108 km with Warden IIs, 1433 DPS @ 47 km with Garde IIs, not overly expensive to boot with lots of room for further pimping if you fancy that.
How is that?
Why should I use a TFI again?
For its speed and looks :) It will get also a slightly larger portion of it's damage from missiles (without damage type restriction) so it can apply more damage when on move than rattle. Drone bay is also slightly more generous but only by a flight of lights and without drone damage bonuses it does not matter that much.
Takes a bit higher skills to put togehter a viable fit for navy phoon that has also some buffer and can still apply damage.
But at the end of a day it is about your running style and which ship suits it better. The decision between rattle and navy phoon is not as no-brainer as you are making it to be.
For me personally the completion times are within few minutes of each other (which comes out on top depends on particular mission) but the navy phoon suits my style with a little more comfort. Do note it's not a solo missionrunning as I multiaccount.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
207
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 09:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
if you're not running a gecko with a rattler you might as well use a tfi. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
159
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 12:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:if you're not running a gecko with a rattler you might as well use a tfi.
Half a gecko's DPS is against your target's strongest resistances so I don't really see why anyone would bother. Super gecko is more a PVP thing. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
268
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 13:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:if you're not running a gecko with a rattler you might as well use a tfi. Half a gecko's DPS is against your target's strongest resistances so I don't really see why anyone would bother. Super gecko is more a PVP thing.
There are situations where you might want to use Gecko in PvE. Say, for example AFK'ing the missions where rats are under ~70 km. Throw in there 2 rattlesnakes and scimi alt. Launch geckos, put one shield transfer on each entity (2x rattle 2x gecko) and do not forget to either have local tank on remote reps in scimi as well. Rats will cycle agro if the cant kill something so eventually they grab the attention of a gecko. A single Gecko with a remote reps from Scimi can tank most thing present in PvE. Would work also with 1 rattle and 1 logi alt, just slower.
In theory. In practice I would not bother AFK'ing in missions as the isk/h is so bad its not worth the clicks to undock and warp to mission. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
159
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 13:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:if you're not running a gecko with a rattler you might as well use a tfi. Half a gecko's DPS is against your target's strongest resistances so I don't really see why anyone would bother. Super gecko is more a PVP thing. There are situations where you might want to use Gecko in PvE. Say, for example AFK'ing the missions where rats are under ~70 km. Throw in there 2 rattlesnakes and scimi alt. Launch geckos, put one shield transfer on each entity (2x rattle 2x gecko) and do not forget to either have local tank on remote reps in scimi as well. Rats will cycle agro if the cant kill something so eventually they grab the attention of a gecko. A single Gecko with a remote reps from Scimi can tank most thing present in PvE. Would work also with 1 rattle and 1 logi alt, just slower. In theory. In practice I would not bother AFK'ing in missions as the isk/h is so bad its not worth the clicks to undock and warp to mission. There's also the movement thing, I can see using the gecko when you need to get to gate. But once you're there you pull that sucker back and launch your sentries again.
Other heavy drones do more damage and take advantage of resist holes but kind of suck at killing frigates, and if frigates are on the field I certainly won't be telling heavies to be killing cruisers. |
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NIFTYGetAtMe
State Protectorate Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 19:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Not worthwhile for missions, but it could work in Incursions. Could. This looks more like a PvP fit to me. |
Starfellow Hawke
Distant Light Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 04:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
I fly an Armageddon , cruise missle / drone boat. It's a damn good lvl 4 ship. May just have to play around with an armor tanked TFI fit. |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 04:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Elsa Hayes wrote: Hm lets see less than perfect Rattlesnake:
1x Fed Navy Drone Damage Amp 2x Drone Damage Amplifier II 1x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control 1x Ballistic Control II 1x Signal Amplifier II
1x MJD 3x Fed Navy Omni directional tracking links 2x rat specific hardeners 1x Pith A/B type Large Shield booster (whatever makes you feel comfortable)
5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge/Inferno Fury) 1x Drone link Augmenter II
1x Large Processor Overclocking Unit I 2x Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I (use tech II if you fancy it)
Use Cruise vs BC and BS drones vs anything else
1306 DPS @ 108 km with Warden IIs, 1433 DPS @ 47 km with Garde IIs, not overly expensive to boot with lots of room for further pimping if you fancy that.
How is that?
Why should I use a TFI again?
For its speed and looks :) It will get also a slightly larger portion of it's damage from missiles (without damage type restriction) so it can apply more damage when on move than rattle. Drone bay is also slightly more generous but only by a flight of lights and without drone damage bonuses it does not matter that much. Takes a bit higher skills to put togehter a viable fit for navy phoon that has also some buffer and can still apply damage. But at the end of a day it is about your running style and which ship suits it better. The decision between rattle and navy phoon is not as no-brainer as you are making it to be. For me personally the completion times are within few minutes of each other (which comes out on top depends on particular mission) but the navy phoon suits my style with a little more comfort. Do note it's not a solo missionrunning as I multiaccount.
Bonus to therm and kin ensure that you are always using the second best damage type vs any rats; you have a tank and you have plenty of EHP to boot which makes you none attractive to gankers if you keep your bling down and for some mistakes like drunk playing.
And lets not forget in this day and age mission or any rat like to target drones, the huge HP bonus ensures you won-¦t lose any and can keep them longer fighting.
Yes point blank and in torpedo range the TFI is probably better pure DPS vice but overall I-¦d take the rattler any day.
Ah you multibox ...there is the problem any ship or playstyle that requires multiboxing is by default faulty in my book. If CCP would balance ships around multiboxing I can not even imagine the mess that would create- |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
270
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 10:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote: Bonus to therm and kin ensure that you are always using the second best damage type vs any rats; you have a tank and you have plenty of EHP to boot which makes you none attractive to gankers if you keep your bling down and for some mistakes like drunk playing.
And lets not forget in this day and age mission or any rat like to target drones, the huge HP bonus ensures you won-¦t lose any and can keep them longer fighting.
Yes point blank and in torpedo range the TFI is probably better pure DPS vice but overall I-¦d take the rattler any day.
Ah you multibox ...there is the problem any ship or playstyle that requires multiboxing is by default faulty in my book. If CCP would balance ships around multiboxing I can not even imagine the mess that would create-
Actually I prefer to use cruise missiles on navy phoon. It does have some advantages over rattle also when flying solo but I would not go as far as to hand out clear "universal winner" ticket to either ship. Some advantages for the navy phoon: (1) It has the largest "alpha" damage from all missile BS hulls. Meaning there is more targets you can one volley with proper management. (2) Increased agility and mobility can be relevant in some missions and/or depending on how you use it. (3) Marginally larger dronebay allowing you a little more options and / or replacements. In some situations a flight of t1 lights is like lizards tail. You kick em out and bail when elite frigs switch to them. (4) Slightly better sensors. If you kill fast enough for your lock time to matter it's nice addition.
The first point is the key advantage which should not be overlooked as it can offer substantial time difference in completion time if properly utilized.
On the other hand rattlesnakes sentries are pretty nice and can make it behave more like a gunnery platfrom than a missile platform by granting it ability to pop frigs at distance. Typhoon can do it as well if fitted for it - it's drones just lack the damage bonus so depending on target it can take an extra volley.
A note about EFT damage numbers. Rattle wins there most of the time (usually becasuse people just throw a gecko in there and ignore questions about its damage application). However, a EFT dps number is more like a rough ballpark for first guessing ships performance in PvE and reality is far more complex than this one number. What does matter, at the end of a day is how many minutes has passed since you undocked with your accepted mission until you are docking again. This depends on a lot more factors than just the dps number, one of the key factors in there is in my opinion actually your preferred tactics and particular setup picked. Will you micromanage aiming to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of your ship or will you sit there semiafk just ticking away at your targets with drones and fof missiles with just occasional nudge, for example.
Rattle has about equally nice list of advantages over navy phoon ofc :) Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
164
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Posted - 2014.08.04 11:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:
A note about EFT damage numbers. Rattle wins there most of the time (usually becasuse people just throw a gecko in there and ignore questions about its damage application).
True. I look now at 1456, which is caldari navy cruise and 2x Gardes. If you want to talk micromanagement, TFI is much worse with its 2 guns. I would certainly ignore the guns for any discussion of raw DPS. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
270
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Posted - 2014.08.04 11:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Carniflex wrote:
A note about EFT damage numbers. Rattle wins there most of the time (usually becasuse people just throw a gecko in there and ignore questions about its damage application).
True. I look now at 1456, which is caldari navy cruise and 2x Gardes. If you want to talk micromanagement, TFI is much worse with its 2 guns. I would certainly ignore the guns for any discussion of raw DPS.
In my opinion it's not really worth it to use the additional gun slots on a missile navy phoon as one is usually better off with a drone link for making sentries viable outside ~50 km. 5 sentries at ~75 km are better than squeezing in 2 guns. Now if one wants to go full out with guns it's a bit different talk. Not that I would know much to say at first as I have not used mine with guns. I believe I do have the smallest CPU footprint pulse laser in one of my hi slots as not much else would fit (for grabbing agro and for drone triggering when having sentries assigned to one of phoons from other ships).
Mine run into CPU issues to the point I need to use some faction fittings for CPU reasons so I really do not have that much fittings left to fit a real gun in there. Rattlesnake is not quite as tight for me but I ofc have some CPU issues with that as well.
Warp speed rigs, missile rigs and drone rigs all have CPU penalties and these are the ones that usually benefit the missile / drone based mission-running ship the most. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
164
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Posted - 2014.08.04 12:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
I would actually rather plug in a warp speed implant and never even try to use a warp speed rig, that's a very hefty drawback. Wouldn't try to use a drone rig either. |
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