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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23520
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:All I can say is that whenever CCP champions how wonderful they are in their "kill the RMT'ers" PR campaigns, the majority of their verbage is about buyers. You haven't considered that maybe this is because they're talking to potential buyers rather than potential sellers? They're the ones that need to be told that, GÇ£no, this is not a good idea and look at the statistics, we will catch you.GÇ¥ No such rhetoric works for sellers since they have no illusions about what they're doing.
Quote:Nailing sellers would shrink RMT activity faster than nailing buyers. What makes you so certain that they're not nailing sellers?
Quote:And outing BOTH sides would do wonders for credibility. No, it would not because it would breach all kinds of privacy laws and agreements. Doing that just to assuage your rampant paranoia is not a good recipe for credibility GÇö quite the opposite.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7388
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Yeah, sounds more and more like "the war on drugs". So you keep hammering the buyer. How about posting explicit data on how many sellers you nailed, and the value of that chunk of ISK? How about their ingame affiliations?
Until we get full transparency on who you nailed, this kind of stuff is just more propaganda.
The problem with using the drug war analogy is that 'going after the sellers' doesn't work any more than going after the buyer. I know, I've spent a career arresting both.
Knock down 1 low level seller, 2 more take his place. Ignore (or turn) the low level sellers to get to the 'connect' (the middle man between the street level seller and the main supplier/producer) and all you do is start a war over who will be the new 'connect' for the area. Go after the producer (which involves heavy law enforcement, military and intelligence forces, read that as Army, DEA, CIA and foreign governments/forces) well that gives you some measure of success....until the next drug lord/cartel pops up and having learned the lessons of the failed/killed/arrested kingpin, does the job better than before and becomes harder to kill.
Attacking the supply side is a losing battle as long as DEMAND remains. CCP did the best thing you can do in this situation by legalizing drugs creating PLEX (lol) but as in the real world where there will always be a black market for some things because there is a demand for that thing as cheap as possible, there will always be some form of RMT in any game with an ingame economy. Law Enforcement (in game and out) is about minimizing crime and it's consequences, nothing can ever truly defeat it.
TL;DR no Dinsdale, CCP isn't going to kill the Goons for you. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2355
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
Sorry Tippia but what kind of privacy laws and agreements are you talking about when RMT participants are concerned? Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23520
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Sorry Tippia but what kind of privacy laws and agreements are you talking about when RMT participants are concerned? The same ones that ensure that CCP does not give out all your information. The EULA has a fairly long section on the topic. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2356
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
Oh c'mon, nobody expects them to give out RL addresses and personal info they have but character name with corp and alliance? Where's the law against 'name and shame' in-game pixels?
Although I guess since people know each other in RL some could get ganked on their doorsteps after this. We are RL psychos and degenerates after all. Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23520
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Oh c'mon, nobody expects them to give out RL addresses and personal info they have but character name with corp and alliance? Where's the law against 'name and shame' in-game pixels? Right in the EULA. Naming and shaming, as the name suggests, is shameful in and of itself. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1160
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:54:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:All I can say is that whenever CCP champions how wonderful they are in their "kill the RMT'ers" PR campaigns, the majority of their verbage is about buyers. You haven't considered that maybe this is because they're talking to potential buyers rather than potential sellers? They're the ones that need to be told that, GÇ£no, this is not a good idea and look at the statistics, we will catch you.GÇ¥ No such rhetoric works for sellers since they have no illusions about what they're doing. Quote:Nailing sellers would shrink RMT activity faster than nailing buyers. What makes you so certain that they're not nailing sellers? Quote:And outing BOTH sides would do wonders for credibility. No, it would not because it would breach all kinds of privacy laws and agreements. Doing that just to assuage your rampant paranoia is not a good recipe for credibility GÇö quite the opposite.
Your privacy is still there as long as they don't link directly to you. Saying they banned 80 players from allaince "RMTer's are us" does not reveal who those players actually are. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2356
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:56:00 -
[68] - Quote
So god forbid fragile RMT guy got his feelings hurt by social ostracism. Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1160
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Oh c'mon, nobody expects them to give out RL addresses and personal info they have but character name with corp and alliance? Where's the law against 'name and shame' in-game pixels? Right in the EULA. Naming and shaming, as the name suggests, is shameful in and of itself.
The same EULA the player already breached by participating in RMT? Why am I supposed to care about the privacy of a banned character/account? It's not the personal information that I want but only the in-game one. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3344
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Oh c'mon, nobody expects them to give out RL addresses and personal info they have but character name with corp and alliance? Where's the law against 'name and shame' in-game pixels?
Although I guess since people know each other in RL some could get ganked on their doorsteps after this. We are RL psychos and degenerates after all.
In the EULA it is explicitly pointed out that CCP OWNS everything about your chars in-game, including the names of the chars. So you are correct, there are zero legal roadblocks stopping CCP from releasing imaginary names of pixels that reside on their servers. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23521
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Your privacy is still there as long as they don't link directly to you. Saying they banned 80 players from allaince "RMTer's are us" does not reveal who those players actually are. No, it does something far worse: it stigmatizes the other 9920 players in the alliance.
Quote:The same EULA the player already breached by participating in RMT? Why am I supposed to care about the privacy of a banned character/account? Because it's the same EULA that protects you and ensures that you are not being harassed by umpteen dingbats who can't understand the difference between broad generalisation and insinuation and their own unfounded conclusions.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:In the EULA it is explicitly pointed out that CCP OWNS everything about your chars in-game, including the names of the chars. So you are correct, there are zero legal roadblocks stopping CCP from releasing imaginary names of pixels that reside on their servers. GǪaside from the entire privacy section, which is there precisely to stop people like you. Catering to the mob is never a good idea. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2356
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
And Tippia, I know you will convince me wrong by the power of your logic but sometimes world is just black and white and here case is simple: either you play within rules or not. It's not RL with subtleties and crimes of passion and whatever: buying in-game assets with out-of-game RL currency is a choice and consequences should be as severe as making offenders' names public. Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23521
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:And Tippia, I know you will convince me wrong by the power of your logic but sometimes world is just black and white and here case is simple: either you play within rules or not. GǪwhich is exactly why they can't name and shame, no matter how much the neandethal mob with pitchforks would love a good lynching. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7389
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:08:00 -
[74] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Your privacy is still there as long as they don't link directly to you. Saying they banned 80 players from allaince "RMTer's are us" does not reveal who those players actually are. No, it does something far worse: it stigmatizes the other 9920 players in the alliance. Quote:The same EULA the player already breached by participating in RMT? Why am I supposed to care about the privacy of a banned character/account? Because it's the same EULA that protects you and ensures that you are not being harassed by umpteen dingbats who can't understand the difference between broad generalisation and insinuation and their own unfounded conclusions. Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:In the EULA it is explicitly pointed out that CCP OWNS everything about your chars in-game, including the names of the chars. So you are correct, there are zero legal roadblocks stopping CCP from releasing imaginary names of pixels that reside on their servers. GǪaside from the entire privacy section, which is there precisely to stop people like you. Catering to the mob is never a good idea.
Well said. People get really short sighted when the issue comes up about other people's rights or the consequences of ignoring those things (such as, as you mention, people being unfairly stigmatized because someone with the same alliance or corp ticker did something wrong, and also because someone will figure out how to 'frame' people in other alliances by using their spies in that alliance to RMT then get caught).
It's why in real life we have such wonderfully useless things like Sex Offender registration and notification (which btw correlates with a rise in Sex crimes lol, oops) and 'Amber Alerts'. People should leave the 'law enforcement' activities to the professionals in this matter, Team Security. |
Lister Dax
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:09:00 -
[75] - Quote
What can CCP do to sellers exactly? Can they get them shut down? Doesn't that just cause a slight inconvenience whilst they pop up somewhere else? |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2357
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
Yeah, I know. It's all for my protection when I get stupid enough to get into RMT. Oh wait, I won't.
Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3305
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Yeah, I know. It's all for my protection when I get stupid enough to get into RMT. Oh wait, I won't.
You don't **** about with privacy, at all, regardless. "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23524
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:12:00 -
[78] - Quote
Lister Dax wrote:What can CCP do to sellers exactly? Can they get them shut down? Doesn't that just cause a slight inconvenience whilst they pop up somewhere else? Pretty much. They'll set back their activities by however much trade goods they had in storage, and quite possibly blow their entire customer network out of the water, but yes, they'll be back GÇö there's real money to be earned, after all.
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Yeah, I know. It's all for my protection when I get stupid enough to get into RMT. Oh wait, I won't. No, it's for your protection, period. RMT isn't a factor. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2357
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:13:00 -
[79] - Quote
Privacy of pixel people? C'mon, Ralph. Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3402
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:15:00 -
[80] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Yeah, I know. It's all for my protection when I get stupid enough to get into RMT. Oh wait, I won't.
It could be considered a legitimate playstyle by some, perhaps not by CCP, but then that would be the point, I guess. Oh god. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3306
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:19:00 -
[81] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Privacy of pixel people? C'mon, Ralph. No, real people, it's an absolute.
"Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
GreenSeed
1091
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:22:00 -
[82] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:And Tippia, I know you will convince me wrong by the power of your logic but sometimes world is just black and white and here case is simple: either you play within rules or not. It's not RL with subtleties and crimes of passion and whatever: buying in-game assets with out-of-game RL currency is a choice and consequences should be as severe as making offenders' character names public. actually its not as simple, any corporation that does something like that would made itself responsible for any repercussions this has.
there's no point in even discussion this... you have to understand that those repercussions can be as simple as some dude turning off the pc, to punching wall and all the way to stuff too grim to mention.
sorry if im being too cynical about this, but if joe lawyer points at a crying mother and says "this evil CCP corporation paraded her son so that an entire community could bully him! how could they!" its pretty much over, anywhere in the world that happens.
so it wont happen, ever. in fact if a player does the detective work to find who is botting and where the proceedings are being funneled, and decided to share it with the community CCP will intervene and protect the players who were botting. they have to. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2358
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:25:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Privacy of pixel people? C'mon, Ralph. No, real people, it's an absolute.
Ehm, saying that character X from corp Y got banned for RMT says nothing about who player is in RL so please show me where that person's right to privacy is violated. Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2358
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote: sorry if im being too cynical about this, but if joe lawyer points at a crying mother and says "this evil CCP corporation paraded her son so that an entire community could bully him! how could they!" its pretty much over, anywhere in the world that happens.
Characters have no families nor lawyers.
Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7392
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:30:00 -
[85] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:And Tippia, I know you will convince me wrong by the power of your logic but sometimes world is just black and white and here case is simple: either you play within rules or not. It's not RL with subtleties and crimes of passion and whatever: buying in-game assets with out-of-game RL currency is a choice and consequences should be as severe as making offenders' character names public. actually its not as simple, any corporation that does something like that would made itself responsible for any repercussions this has. there's no point in even discussing this... you have to understand that those repercussions can be as simple as some dude turning off the pc, to punching wall and all the way to stuff too grim to mention. sorry if im being too cynical about this, but if joe lawyer points at a crying mother and says "this evil CCP corporation paraded her son so that an entire community could bully him! how could they!" its pretty much over, anywhere in the world that happens. so it wont happen, ever. in fact if a player does the detective work to find who is botting and where the proceedings are being funneled, and decided to share it with the community CCP will intervene and protect the players who were botting. they have to.
That is a perfect understanding of the issue. I hate RMTrs and botters as much as anyone (they make things in the game worth more or less than they should be, distorting the economy for the majority which is honest players), but letting hate dictate policy is a sure fire way to make things way more screwed up (and unintended real life consequences that could go out of control).
CCP is doing enough and it's good that that don't listen to the over-zealous witch hunters among us...well, they usualyl don't listen to such people I should say , unless you do you thing in a Bonus Room or something.... |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7392
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:31:00 -
[86] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:GreenSeed wrote: sorry if im being too cynical about this, but if joe lawyer points at a crying mother and says "this evil CCP corporation paraded her son so that an entire community could bully him! how could they!" its pretty much over, anywhere in the world that happens.
Characters have no families nor lawyers.
You're being short sighted here.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2358
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
Short sighted? Because I can see a difference between in-game character and RL person? Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3307
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:36:00 -
[88] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:GreenSeed wrote: sorry if im being too cynical about this, but if joe lawyer points at a crying mother and says "this evil CCP corporation paraded her son so that an entire community could bully him! how could they!" its pretty much over, anywhere in the world that happens.
Characters have no families nor lawyers. Stop being obtuse.
"Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23526
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:38:00 -
[89] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Short sighted? Because I can see a difference between in-game character and RL person? No, because you can't. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2359
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:49:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Short sighted? Because I can see a difference between in-game character and RL person? No, because you can't.
So I guess you RL name is Tippia and I can google you RL address just like that? Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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