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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
4313
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 13:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi guys
You may or may not have seen me make a post a while back saying that we were intending to do a revisit on battleship and heavy assault cruiser balance for this summer, and I can now be a little more specific with you about that!
After digging into this we were both happy and a bit surprised to find that there weren't a lot of clear changes needed. Battleships especially seem to be in a pretty solid place. There are ships within the class getting less use than others, but that is almost completely due to either the meta favoring certain things (this is why the Abaddon isn't seeing a lot of action for example) or due to the ship falling into a niche that isn't extremely popular even though the ship performs exceptionally in that niche (the Hyperion is a great example of this). So the result is that for now we are going to leave BS alone and keep checking back for opportunities to make improvements.
HACs on the other hand are a slightly different story. In general the class gained a lot of power in the last pass and it's seeing plenty of use across the board, but there are some pretty clear imbalances between certain ships in the class. If you've undocked lately you probably know the Ishtar especially is a little out of control. Here's the small set of changes we're going to make:
Ishtar: Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level Max Velocity from 195 -> 185
Eagle: Max Velocity from 180 -> 190
Muninn: Max velocity from 210 -> 230
We expect that some of you will feel this is far too gentle on the Ishtar, and we understand that (it's what we heard from the CSM as well), but we get releases very often now and we're happy to be conservative here, rather than nuke it out of the game, and just make more changes if they're needed in the following release.
Looking forward to your feedback as always
PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest? @ccp_rise |
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
846
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
8-4-7 tempest .. stronger armour tank over phoon .. might at least position it in a better armour tanker option than phoon and ofc Maelstrom .. seems okay too me .... more mobility aswell..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Sith1s Spectre
Hard Knocks Inc.
1114
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi guys
You may or may not have seen me make a post a while back saying that we were intending to do a revisit on battleship and heavy assault cruiser balance for this summer, and I can now be a little more specific with you about that!
After digging into this we were both happy and a bit surprised to find that there weren't a lot of clear changes needed. Battleships especially seem to be in a pretty solid place. There are ships within the class getting less use than others, but that is almost completely due to either the meta favoring certain things (this is why the Abaddon isn't seeing a lot of action for example) or due to the ship falling into a niche that isn't extremely popular even though the ship performs exceptionally in that niche (the Hyperion is a great example of this). So the result is that for now we are going to leave BS alone and keep checking back for opportunities to make improvements.
HACs on the other hand are a slightly different story. In general the class gained a lot of power in the last pass and it's seeing plenty of use across the board, but there are some pretty clear imbalances between certain ships in the class. If you've undocked lately you probably know the Ishtar especially is a little out of control. Here's the small set of changes we're going to make:
Ishtar: Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level Max Velocity from 195 -> 185
Eagle: Max Velocity from 180 -> 190
Muninn: Max velocity from 210 -> 230
We expect that some of you will feel this is far too gentle on the Ishtar, and we understand that (it's what we heard from the CSM as well), but we get releases very often now and we're happy to be conservative here, rather than nuke it out of the game, and just make more changes if they're needed in the following release.
Looking forward to your feedback as always
PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?
Will still be Ishtar/crow online everyday AU tz best tz
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Greygal
Redemption Road Affirmative.
235
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Is there a timetable for the Ishtar and other HAC changes to go live? I.e., will these changes be going live before, during, or after the Alliance Tournament?
Thanks!
GG What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.
Free public roams! Visit http://www.redemption-road.com or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for more information! |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
846
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
i expected the ishtar change ... will the domi change aswell then?
Eagle - i did say in the HAC page it was far too slow .. would be nice at 200 along with some drones .. it has a dronebay now on the model and would allow for blaster variants then instead of only rails ...
Vagabond - please nerf its speed ... resilience is the theme of HACS remember so why is it just as quick as a stabber and cynabal??? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Theophilas
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
22
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Harpy nerf? No? o-okay |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
93
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi guys
You may or may not have seen me make a post a while back saying that we were intending to do a revisit on battleship and heavy assault cruiser balance for this summer, and I can now be a little more specific with you about that!
After digging into this we were both happy and a bit surprised to find that there weren't a lot of clear changes needed. Battleships especially seem to be in a pretty solid place. There are ships within the class getting less use than others, but that is almost completely due to either the meta favoring certain things (this is why the Abaddon isn't seeing a lot of action for example) or due to the ship falling into a niche that isn't extremely popular even though the ship performs exceptionally in that niche (the Hyperion is a great example of this). So the result is that for now we are going to leave BS alone and keep checking back for opportunities to make improvements.
HACs on the other hand are a slightly different story. In general the class gained a lot of power in the last pass and it's seeing plenty of use across the board, but there are some pretty clear imbalances between certain ships in the class. If you've undocked lately you probably know the Ishtar especially is a little out of control. Here's the small set of changes we're going to make:
Ishtar: Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level Max Velocity from 195 -> 185
Eagle: Max Velocity from 180 -> 190
Muninn: Max velocity from 210 -> 230
We expect that some of you will feel this is far too gentle on the Ishtar, and we understand that (it's what we heard from the CSM as well), but we get releases very often now and we're happy to be conservative here, rather than nuke it out of the game, and just make more changes if they're needed in the following release.
Looking forward to your feedback as always
PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?
8/4/7 Tempest .... so an armour boat ... I can safely say this will be contentious. Terrible DPS, terrible range, and now a inability to get in range to apply terrible DPS. It was, and forever has been, crap. It seems it forever will be.
Ishtar: seriously? Its breathtakingly overpowered. The tracking and range will go down significantly, but it will still crap all over this Muninn for example.
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Johnny Goldheart
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
20
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hi Rise. You've heard it before, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Remove sentry drones from Ishtar. With sentries, the Ishtar got both the DPS and the Range of a Batleship, which is somewhat out of order for a super speedy Cruiser hull. All other HACs got either range or DPS comparable to Battleships, but not both. It don't make sense. |
TheButcherPete
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
449
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Our Ishtar doctrine will probably just drop the scram (and stop pretending to be heavy tackle, it was **** anyway) and fit an Omnidirectional, making this little nerf completely useless.
GG. THE KING OF EVE RADIO
If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs? |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
610
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: We expect that some of you will feel this is far too gentle on the Ishtar, and we understand that (it's what we heard from the CSM as well), but we get releases very often now and we're happy to be conservative here, rather than nuke it out of the game, and just make more changes if they're needed in the following release.
These changes do nothing to affect the issue with the Ishtar (it has battleship-level DPS weapons that can hit nearly anything with virtually no downside). You would have been better off not doing anything to the ishtar than essentially redoing the paint because at least doing nothing wouldn't be quite as insulting. |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
719
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
+50 hull again, is it?
I guess a few more months of waiting couldn't hurt.
edit: why is my armour/combat drone ishtar being nerfed? |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
489
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Do you even know how important the tracking bonus is on ishtar? It will still be used yes but this nerf puts it into line with other hacs.
You should nerf harpies.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
975
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have hoped the Muninn would get a midslot more :( German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Natural 20 Shinjiketo
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
I still don't think ships like the abaddon or hyperion are fieldable because of their "exceptional performance in a niche" its extremely underwhelming and I'd rather bring a battleship or equivalent that can fill that niche as well as do other things. I think the Abaddon and Hyperion's massive capacitor problems (especially the Abaddon) make them very difficult to use and apply. I find countless fits that must use heavy capacitor boosters because the abaddon and other similar ships simply cannot be viable at all without them |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
846
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:CCP Rise wrote: We expect that some of you will feel this is far too gentle on the Ishtar, and we understand that (it's what we heard from the CSM as well), but we get releases very often now and we're happy to be conservative here, rather than nuke it out of the game, and just make more changes if they're needed in the following release.
These changes do nothing to affect the issue with the Ishtar (it has battleship-level DPS weapons that can hit nearly anything with virtually no downside). You would have been better off not doing anything to the ishtar than essentially redoing the paint because at least doing nothing wouldn't be quite as insulting.
perhaps reducing the drone damage bonus to 7.5% ??
also is the nerf too heavies aswell as sentries? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
233
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi guys
You may or may not have seen me make a post a while back saying that we were intending to do a revisit on battleship and heavy assault cruiser balance for this summer, and I can now be a little more specific with you about that!
After digging into this we were both happy and a bit surprised to find that there weren't a lot of clear changes needed. Battleships especially seem to be in a pretty solid place. There are ships within the class getting less use than others, but that is almost completely due to either the meta favoring certain things (this is why the Abaddon isn't seeing a lot of action for example) or due to the ship falling into a niche that isn't extremely popular even though the ship performs exceptionally in that niche (the Hyperion is a great example of this). So the result is that for now we are going to leave BS alone and keep checking back for opportunities to make improvements.
PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?
I feel that while I would prefer to keep its flexibility in shield tanking since shield tempests are a thing, the more important thing to look at for it are its bonuses. It currently suffers the distinction as being the only "attack" battleship without any damage projection bonuses, and while it CAN be argued that projectiles have superior range and tracking and thus don't need said bonuses, it's a poor case to make compared to laser ships like the Apocalypse.
A tweak I would recommend that's been talked about would be to bring it up to a full 8 guns, and drop the firing rate bonus on it in favor of a tracking bonus. Not only would this give you a desirable alternate artillery platform to the tornado and maelstrom, it would cement its role as an "attack" battleship very nicely, as currently it remains the only shield attack battleship, except certain monsters spawned in the federation (We will not speak of the dominix in anything but hushed and fearful tones).
TLDR; Tempest should keep its slots, but change its bonuses from 5% dmg and 5% firing rate to an 8 gun ships with 5% damage and 7.5% tracking speed per level. |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
526
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pls more love for the Muninn I actually want to use mine :< If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
489
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Harvey James wrote: perhaps reducing the drone damage bonus to 7.5% ??
also is the nerf too heavies aswell as sentries?
Wow lets just go from overpowered to goddamn useless ok?
No, taking standard drone bonus down would make it useless.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
135
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
[14:17:58] Bob FromMarketing > fix mimir |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
720
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hi guys
You may or may not have seen me make a post a while back saying that we were intending to do a revisit on battleship and heavy assault cruiser balance for this summer, and I can now be a little more specific with you about that!
After digging into this we were both happy and a bit surprised to find that there weren't a lot of clear changes needed. Battleships especially seem to be in a pretty solid place. There are ships within the class getting less use than others, but that is almost completely due to either the meta favoring certain things (this is why the Abaddon isn't seeing a lot of action for example) or due to the ship falling into a niche that isn't extremely popular even though the ship performs exceptionally in that niche (the Hyperion is a great example of this). So the result is that for now we are going to leave BS alone and keep checking back for opportunities to make improvements.
PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest? I feel that while I would prefer to keep its flexibility in shield tanking since shield tempests are a thing, the more important thing to look at for it are its bonuses. It currently suffers the distinction as being the only "attack" battleship gunship without any damage projection bonuses, and while it CAN be argued that projectiles have superior range and tracking and thus don't need said bonuses, it's a poor case to make compared to laser ships like the Apocalypse. A tweak I would recommend that's been talked about would be to bring it up to a full 8 guns, and drop the firing rate bonus on it in favor of a tracking bonus. Not only would this give you a desirable alternate artillery platform to the tornado and maelstrom, it would cement its role as an "attack" battleship very nicely, as currently it remains the only shield attack battleship, except certain monsters spawned in the federation (We will not speak of the dominix in anything but hushed and fearful tones). TLDR; Tempest should keep its slots, but change its bonuses from 5% dmg and 5% firing rate to an 8 gun ships with 5% damage and 7.5% tracking speed per level.
I think it's a projectiles problem. they just have no dps at any ranges, ever. but a general weapons rebalance seems unlikely, considering how long this non-change has taken. |
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
4049
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Greygal wrote:Is there a timetable for the Ishtar and other HAC changes to go live? I.e., will these changes be going live before, during, or after the Alliance Tournament?
Thanks!
GG
Hyperion's release date is September 23, 2014, so after the AT.
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BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
809
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Give the Muninn +1 mid -1 low tia in advance
And no keep the tempest as is . |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
233
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:I still don't think ships like the abaddon or hyperion are fieldable because of their "exceptional performance in a niche" its extremely underwhelming and I'd rather bring a battleship or equivalent that can fill that niche as well as do other things. I think the Abaddon and Hyperion's massive capacitor problems (especially the Abaddon) make them very difficult to use and apply. I find countless fits that must use heavy capacitor boosters because the abaddon and other similar ships simply cannot be viable at all without them.
Because of this I feel that why should I ever bring an abaddon when any other battleship fills the role far better? Yes the abaddon has its massive tank and such but its not very good at anything else because of mobility, cap problems I just don't think its applicable as anything other than a brick, a heavy nearly unthrowable brick. Why bring an abaddon when I can field other battleships that have just as good tank and better DPS applications (or role applications for that matter) because they don't have capacitor problems!
bump abby's cap up to or past the hyperion's, give it the best regen out of the bunch next to the apoc...and drop a mid for a low on it. The heavy armor tank is central to what the ship is, and I'll be damned before the Gallente beat out the Amarr on lowslot utility and tanking. |
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Natural 20 Shinjiketo
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote: I think it's a projectiles problem. they just have no dps at any ranges, ever. but a general weapons rebalance seems unlikely, considering how long this non-change has taken.
I disagree, I think the abilities of artillery is favorable because of its extremely high alpha and extreme range compared to say railguns.
Yes Railguns and Beams might fire faster but the DPS is about the same I find, the huge alpha is the attraction to artillery. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
720
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: I think it's a projectiles problem. they just have no dps at any ranges, ever. but a general weapons rebalance seems unlikely, considering how long this non-change has taken.
I disagree, I think the abilities of artillery is favorable because of its extremely high alpha and extreme range compared to say railguns. Yes Railguns and Beams might fire faster but the DPS is about the same I find, the huge alpha is the attraction to artillery.
but they don't have extreme range. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
233
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Give the Muninn +1 mid -1 low tia in advance
And no keep the tempest as is Maybe drop a high for a mid? Tempest NEEDS tracking bonus, but yeah; keep the slot layout like it is. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
720
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Give the Muninn +1 mid -1 low tia in advance
And no keep the tempest as is
I think it's supposed to be able to do armour. |
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Natural 20 Shinjiketo
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:I still don't think ships like the abaddon or hyperion are fieldable because of their "exceptional performance in a niche" its extremely underwhelming and I'd rather bring a battleship or equivalent that can fill that niche as well as do other things. I think the Abaddon and Hyperion's massive capacitor problems (especially the Abaddon) make them very difficult to use and apply. I find countless fits that must use heavy capacitor boosters because the abaddon and other similar ships simply cannot be viable at all without them.
Because of this I feel that why should I ever bring an abaddon when any other battleship fills the role far better? Yes the abaddon has its massive tank and such but its not very good at anything else because of mobility, cap problems I just don't think its applicable as anything other than a brick, a heavy nearly unthrowable brick. Why bring an abaddon when I can field other battleships that have just as good tank and better DPS applications (or role applications for that matter) because they don't have capacitor problems! bump abby's cap up to or past the hyperion's, give it the best regen out of the bunch next to the apoc...and drop a mid for a low on it. The heavy armor tank is central to what the ship is, and I'll be damned before the Gallente beat out the Amarr on lowslot utility and tanking.
Its funny because the Apoc has a shorter targetting distance than the Abaddon despite the Apoc getting a range and tracking bonus, the entire purpose of a sniping ship
I think the abaddon's cap problems also heavily stems into Laser Capacitor usage which makes most amarr ships have terrible cap problems. For a race that uses lasers with capacitor as ammo you'd think they would have developed technology to help alleviate this issue. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1443
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi guys
You may or may not have seen me make a post a while back saying that we were intending to do a revisit on battleship and heavy assault cruiser balance for this summer, and I can now be a little more specific with you about that!
After digging into this we were both happy and a bit surprised to find that there weren't a lot of clear changes needed. Battleships especially seem to be in a pretty solid place. There are ships within the class getting less use than others, but that is almost completely due to either the meta favoring certain things (this is why the Abaddon isn't seeing a lot of action for example) or due to the ship falling into a niche that isn't extremely popular even though the ship performs exceptionally in that niche (the Hyperion is a great example of this). So the result is that for now we are going to leave BS alone and keep checking back for opportunities to make improvements.
HACs on the other hand are a slightly different story. In general the class gained a lot of power in the last pass and it's seeing plenty of use across the board, but there are some pretty clear imbalances between certain ships in the class. If you've undocked lately you probably know the Ishtar especially is a little out of control. Here's the small set of changes we're going to make:
Ishtar: Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level Max Velocity from 195 -> 185
Eagle: Max Velocity from 180 -> 190
Muninn: Max velocity from 210 -> 230
We expect that some of you will feel this is far too gentle on the Ishtar, and we understand that (it's what we heard from the CSM as well), but we get releases very often now and we're happy to be conservative here, rather than nuke it out of the game, and just make more changes if they're needed in the following release.
Looking forward to your feedback as always
PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?
I would send you a bottle of wine just for the fact hat you are trying to get the tempest out of the hole it is stuck now. I would not be against 8/4/7. But how about 7/5/7 ? Is not as the tempest is the standard NOS battleship anymore. That work is always better done by the drone boats.
Also on the HACS, Think a bit about the Zealot please. Currently it is in a bad spot. The navy omen and the other amarr HAC ( got a blank and cannot remember the name) leave it without role. The nomen is better as a mobile long range shooter and the other as a brawler. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
846
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 14:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
i don't really get the muninn +20m/s change ... the rupture only has 210m/s .. its a sniper so why should it have som much speed ??? especially when you only want too give the eagle 190m/s .. the eagle with good speed and drones could be a good blaster boat .. a munnin will always be a arty boat.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
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