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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1162
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:09:00 -
[301] - Quote
Querns wrote:MeBiatch wrote:To balance the ishtar I would greatly reduce the target range by 1/3 or to 52.8km. That way if you want to take advantage of the senty range you have to use sensor boosters. Ishtars will just assign their drones to someone with longer target range.
Just to be sure I understand the mechanic, your sentry will still fire to "drone control range" even if if your enemy is further away from the sentry as long as you direct him to attack while your ship is within targeting range of the enemy right? Like you can put yourself between your sentry and your enemy to reduce the targeting gap but the sentry will fire to your max drone range from their own point in space? |
Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns Triumvirate.
63
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:10:00 -
[302] - Quote
Budan Kado wrote:CFC if you cant beat them, nerf them.
Devs I hope you skip over the CFC posting brigade of nerfing. Its sorta personal for them. They cant figure out how to beat them, so they will try to get them nerfed. This isnt a new case, it has happened before with ships.
Its a shame really, they have the biggest collection of players in Nullsec and when they cant out blob something, they run and cry about it to get it nerfed.
Well, the Ishtar needs a nerfhammer like never seen before. This coming out of a dude in alliance flying almost nothing but ishtars on alliance level fleets.
Happy now? |
D-Glester Hardunkichud
Ergonomic Dildonics LLC
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:17:00 -
[303] - Quote
I think that this is an opportunity to add missile launcher hardpoints on the Ishtar. Change one of the bonuses to a rate of fire bonus to festival launchers. |
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:17:00 -
[304] - Quote
Not only should ecm break connection with the drones/sentires, but a Tracking Disruptor should affect the ship's drones/sentries as well. If a module on my ishtar can increase the tracking speed or optimal eange of my drones, then enemy tracking disruption hitting my ship should also affect my drones/sentry tracking. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
849
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:18:00 -
[305] - Quote
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:Not only should ecm break connection with the drones/sentires, but a Tracking Disruptor should affect the ship's drones/sentries as well. If a module on my ishtar can increase the tracking speed or optimal eange of my drones, then enemy tracking disruption hitting my ship should also affect my drones/sentry tracking.
I agree along with other changes this could help alleviate the ishtar domination Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
855
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:21:00 -
[306] - Quote
Cerberus, still needs an improvement of its abilities to apply damage with heavy missiles. It is still too much of a one trick pony and hard to justify over better alternatives. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
201
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:23:00 -
[307] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:This "Ishtar has bonuses to battleship weapons" line that keeps coming up is interesting. We talked about it some earlier here. There's parts of it that we can agree about but it's also something that makes drones interesting across all drone using/bonused ships. You could use the same argument to say that Dominix's shouldn't get bonuses to light drones or that Vexors shouldn't be able to use lights or heavies or sentries.
We feel that in general it's an interesting and positive part of drone design that they aren't fixed to ship sizes nearly as strictly as other weapon types. We just need to find ways to have balanced ships as well.
Ishtar does have bonuses to BS sized weapons system, or did you not pay any attention to the pirate ship balance pass? Look at Guristas' ships, drone sizes are listed there for our pleasure per ship.
Stupid analogue aside, yes drones have downsides in that you need to fly back to them to pick them up. Oh wait, you have 3 flights + depot with an extra flight anyways. Lose all 4 flights? Just run away from bubbles at 2k+ m/s, warp away, get moar drones.
I've been on bombing runs to take out sentry drones and it takes on average 8 bombs detonating within 5 seconds to wipe sentries, meaning you need 2 wings (theoretically 6 is enough but people can fail). After you've done this against an FC, the next thing you see is 100 ishtars pooping drones into a cloud with dimensions 2-4x the size of the bomb explosion radius, meaning you need to field 2-4x more bombers to do the same damage, yet the drones continue applying full DPS if the FC is intelligent at flying the blob of potatoes.
TL;DR: BS weapon system, hard to get rid of outside of killing the drone owner, too much HP, no real downsides because 4 flights per ishtar. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:23:00 -
[308] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Night Condor wrote:CCP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT ABOUT AMARR HAC's ?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How about Amarr Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to light missile, Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile damage 4% bonus to all armor resistances Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to light missile, Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile max velocity 5% bonus to Rapid Light Missile, Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty
The Sacrilege needs to be 6/4/5 or 6/3/6. 7/3/5 would probably be overpowered. The problem is the fourth midslot is useless unless you're running a dualrep active tank, the weapons don't use cap and the capacitor is so good you can permarun a MWD and still have enough cap to run an MAAR out of paste without an injector. |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
201
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:24:00 -
[309] - Quote
Ugly Eric wrote:Budan Kado wrote:CFC if you cant beat them, nerf them.
Devs I hope you skip over the CFC posting brigade of nerfing. Its sorta personal for them. They cant figure out how to beat them, so they will try to get them nerfed. This isnt a new case, it has happened before with ships.
Its a shame really, they have the biggest collection of players in Nullsec and when they cant out blob something, they run and cry about it to get it nerfed. Well, the Ishtar needs a nerfhammer like never seen before. This coming out of a dude in alliance flying almost nothing but ishtars on alliance level fleets. Happy now?
Tri is the only alliance I've ever seen flying Ishtars correctly, Ishtars are stupidly effective in correct hands. |
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:24:00 -
[310] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Altirius Saldiaro wrote:Not only should ecm break connection with the drones/sentires, but a Tracking Disruptor should affect the ship's drones/sentries as well. If a module on my ishtar can increase the tracking speed or optimal eange of my drones, then enemy tracking disruption hitting my ship should also affect my drones/sentry tracking. I agree along with other changes this could help alleviate the ishtar domination
At least its not just a hands down nerf to just one ship because everyone uses it. It gives pilots the ability to counter. Its what ECM means, counter measure. Why the ingame counter measures dont already affect drones is beyond my understanding. That should have been a part of EVE a long time ago. |
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:27:00 -
[311] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Querns wrote:MeBiatch wrote:To balance the ishtar I would greatly reduce the target range by 1/3 or to 52.8km. That way if you want to take advantage of the senty range you have to use sensor boosters. Ishtars will just assign their drones to someone with longer target range. Just to be sure I understand the mechanic, your sentry will still fire to "drone control range" even if if your enemy is further away from the sentry as long as you direct him to attack while your ship is within targeting range of the enemy right? Like you can put yourself between your sentry and your enemy to reduce the targeting gap but the sentry will fire to your max drone range from their own point in space?
Unless something changed since a month or 3 after the rat agro change when I largely stopped using drones, no. Both your ship and the target must be within drone control range. It's one of the reasons no body ever complained about Garde range, though they were not used much before the battleship rebalance gave them useful range. Other than Garde, any sentry will hit as far away as you can use, their 'superior range' is largely wasted due to drone control limitations.
On the other hand, the idea of limiting the target range as Frostys suggested would change how they are piloted, but not much in how they fight, drone control range would not change, and if sniped from beyond target range the drones would still respond on their own---the main difference would be that they drop sentries and then fly into target range to engage, which many do already anyway.
It's almost a 'be careful what you wish for' scenario. Remove sentries from the Ishtar and you also have to reassign half it's bonuses to other things---currently the ship functionally operates as if it only had 2 bonuses, because you can't fly full flights of heavies and sentries at the same time. If the ship were fairly bonused, it's drone bonuses would be doubled like the Minmitar boat, or else the bonuses would apply to universal drone attributes that worked on all drones. |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
124
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:31:00 -
[312] - Quote
"Lets nerf a ship that uses a broken weapon system for PVP instead of fixing the broken weapon system" - CCP |
Aleqs Villint
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:36:00 -
[313] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi guys
You may or may not have seen me make a post a while back saying that we were intending to do a revisit on battleship and heavy assault cruiser balance for this summer, and I can now be a little more specific with you about that!
[snip]
Ishtar: Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level Max Velocity from 195 -> 185
We expect that some of you will feel this is far too gentle on the Ishtar, and we understand that (it's what we heard from the CSM as well), but we get releases very often now and we're happy to be conservative here, rather than nuke it out of the game, and just make more changes if they're needed in the following release.
Incremental nerfs are ok, and in this case forcing the Ishtar to use one of it's slots to maintain parity is a step in the right direction.
That said, and this has been echoed many times in the thread, have you considered looking at Sentry drones? I understand the Ishtar is meant to be the 'sniper' HAC for the Gallente, so maybe a behaviour change for the Sentries is in order, like making them orbit their parent or assigned ship. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3408
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:37:00 -
[314] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:"Lets nerf a ship that uses a broken weapon system for PVP instead of fixing the broken weapon system" - CCP They did fix the broken weapon system and now they're even more OP. Oh god. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1162
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:40:00 -
[315] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:"Lets nerf a ship that uses a broken weapon system for PVP instead of fixing the broken weapon system" - CCP They did fix the broken weapon system and now they're even more OP.
They didn't "fix" it, they made it broken in a different way. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:44:00 -
[316] - Quote
Nerfing the range on the Ishtar is actually fairly significant.
One of the biggest problems with the Ishtar is that it can shoot from outside the range of any medium-sized weapons except for railguns, and railguns shoot into its T2 resists. This is compounded by the fact that the Megathron is vastly superior to all the other gun-based battleships in basically every way, and it's also on kin/therm damage. This makes it very difficult to exploit the Ishtar's major weakness - EM damage.
What are you going to use against a sniping Ishtar fleet? The best option is the Apoc, but Amarr is the least-played race and an Apoc with beams basically requires AWU V to even undock. Large artillery? Proton L has a 96km optimal, it can't really reach a 130km sniping Ishtar and it has problems tracking it even at that range. Medium beams and projectiles don't have the range to hit a sniping Ishtar even on optimal range-bonused ships.
The same problem occurs against brawling Ishtars, close in, lasers have trouble tracking because they have the worst tracking. Autocannons have been nerfed into a godawful weapons system in general and the best missile boats are locked into kinetic (the worst damage type to use against an Ishtar) due to their bonuses. So, how are you going to apply EM? Ishtars are free to fly around with a giant EM hole, confident that it's very difficult for anyone to take advantage. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:45:00 -
[317] - Quote
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:Querns wrote:MeBiatch wrote:To balance the ishtar I would greatly reduce the target range by 1/3 or to 52.8km. That way if you want to take advantage of the senty range you have to use sensor boosters. Ishtars will just assign their drones to someone with longer target range. If ECM and Damps affected a ship's connection with its drones, then it couldnt assign their drones because they'd lose ability to command their drones. Ewar is the key to balancing OP sentry boats. EWAR needs to affect the connection between ship and its drones. maybe sentries, if regular drones get immobile becouse ewar they'll get instakilled then the ship (now we arent' talking about ishtar anymore) lose its only weapon. ewar should be temporary, not a permanent weapon denial. |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
81
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:49:00 -
[318] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:What are you going to use against a sniping Ishtar fleet? Typhoons.
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Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:49:00 -
[319] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:Altirius Saldiaro wrote:Querns wrote:MeBiatch wrote:To balance the ishtar I would greatly reduce the target range by 1/3 or to 52.8km. That way if you want to take advantage of the senty range you have to use sensor boosters. Ishtars will just assign their drones to someone with longer target range. If ECM and Damps affected a ship's connection with its drones, then it couldnt assign their drones because they'd lose ability to command their drones. Ewar is the key to balancing OP sentry boats. EWAR needs to affect the connection between ship and its drones. maybe sentries, if regular drones get immobile becouse ewar they'll get instakilled then the ship (now we arent' talking about ishtar anymore) lose its only weapon. ewar should be temporary, not a permanent weapon denial.
Balancing ewar is a separate topic. Making ewar affect drones just makes too much sense for ccp to implement. There is ECCM which is the counter to ECM. So ecm is not permanent. It can be if you're fitted to make it highly effective. But there are still counters in game for that. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:50:00 -
[320] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Xequecal wrote:What are you going to use against a sniping Ishtar fleet? Typhoons.
I'm pretty sure that when you're 130km away, the two-minute warning you get before the missiles actually hit you give you plenty of time to scoop your drones and warp off. |
|
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:55:00 -
[321] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Nerfing the range on the Ishtar is actually fairly significant.
One of the biggest problems with the Ishtar is that it can shoot from outside the range of any medium-sized weapons except for railguns, and railguns shoot into its T2 resists. This is compounded by the fact that the Megathron is vastly superior to all the other gun-based battleships in basically every way, and it's also on kin/therm damage. This makes it very difficult to exploit the Ishtar's major weakness - EM damage.
What are you going to use against a sniping Ishtar fleet? The best option is the Apoc, but Amarr is the least-played race and an Apoc with beams basically requires AWU V to even undock. Large artillery? Proton L has a 96km optimal, it can't really reach a 130km sniping Ishtar and it has problems tracking it even at that range. Medium beams and projectiles don't have the range to hit a sniping Ishtar even on optimal range-bonused ships.
The same problem occurs against brawling Ishtars, close in, lasers have trouble tracking because they have the worst tracking. Autocannons have been nerfed into a godawful weapons system in general and the best missile boats are locked into kinetic (the worst damage type to use against an Ishtar) due to their bonuses. So, how are you going to apply EM? Ishtars are free to fly around with a giant EM hole, confident that it's very difficult for anyone to take advantage.
To deal with sentries? Rohk comes to mind, as does any maurader-- large rails will do the job easily, as will beams and cruise...artillery will be in falloff and fire a bit slow for the purpose. Get outside that drone control range--- which is only 100 or less for 99.9999% of all drone boats and you are shooting a stationary cruiser. I don't care how bad you think laser tracking is, they can hit a stationary cruiser which is what a sentry looks like for targeting, and if you can't, it's not like target painters don't exist or are hard to use.
Expensive? perhaps, but it can be done cheaper by the attack battlecruisers. They can counter by picking up their sentries and chasing you, but then they are doing exactly 0 DPS. Stop letting them fight how they want, and this problem will go away. |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
81
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:56:00 -
[322] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:when you're 130km away ...then you rewarp.
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Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:58:00 -
[323] - Quote
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:Sara Tosa wrote:Altirius Saldiaro wrote:Querns wrote:MeBiatch wrote:To balance the ishtar I would greatly reduce the target range by 1/3 or to 52.8km. That way if you want to take advantage of the senty range you have to use sensor boosters. Ishtars will just assign their drones to someone with longer target range. If ECM and Damps affected a ship's connection with its drones, then it couldnt assign their drones because they'd lose ability to command their drones. Ewar is the key to balancing OP sentry boats. EWAR needs to affect the connection between ship and its drones. maybe sentries, if regular drones get immobile becouse ewar they'll get instakilled then the ship (now we arent' talking about ishtar anymore) lose its only weapon. ewar should be temporary, not a permanent weapon denial. Balancing ewar is a separate topic. Making ewar affect drones just makes too much sense for ccp to implement. There is ECCM which is the counter to ECM. So ecm is not permanent. It can be if you're fitted to make it highly effective. But there are still counters in game for that. maybe I didnt explain myself, sorry - not native english. when a drone ship drop connection to its drones, those will stop and become immobile targets - easily blapped by anybody, the only defence a small or even medium drone has is when its orbiting its target. so if ewar do the same it basically means singleshotting all the droneship weapons. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
4051
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:58:00 -
[324] - Quote
Gorski Car wrote:Mizhir wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Mizhir wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Sentry drones have enormous downsides. They can be killed like other drones AND they don't return to your ship. There's a reason they were never used at all until assist + these tracking/optimal bonuses came along. But with the possibility for 3 full sets of sentries it outweights this downside. Perhaps the solution is to increase the size (but not bandwidth) of sentry drones. Sentries taking up 50 m3 of space would severely limit the number of sentries a drone ship may utilize. Suddenly Ishtars are 1 set of Sentries, 1 Set of heavies. Food for thought, not necessarily a good idea (and may require balancing the drone bay of other drone boats). Interesting concept. 50m3 would probably be too much. Even 30m3 may be sufficient. That would leave an ishtar with 75m3 after 2 sets of sentries. Otherwise 35m3 sentries would give you 25m3 remaining. People can still just depot in new drone sets.
I chose 50 specifically so the ishtar can't fit 2 sets of sentries.
You are right they could use a depot to refit more drones, but since depots are not shared with fleetmates/corpmates, it would compete with the "spare drones" space. It would also be difficult and time consuming to anchor a depot and refit in the middle of a fight.
I'm thinking simply increasing the size of sentries to 50 m3 would really solve this issue without making the ishtar obsolete.
I think an additional feature that would provide a nice ewar counter to drone ships (and improve the use of a not-very-used module) is to have ECM bursts disrupt drones. If the jam succeeds, have the drone return to its owner's control, and then have it aggress based on drone settings and the drone target prioritization AI.
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Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:00:00 -
[325] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Xequecal wrote:Nerfing the range on the Ishtar is actually fairly significant.
One of the biggest problems with the Ishtar is that it can shoot from outside the range of any medium-sized weapons except for railguns, and railguns shoot into its T2 resists. This is compounded by the fact that the Megathron is vastly superior to all the other gun-based battleships in basically every way, and it's also on kin/therm damage. This makes it very difficult to exploit the Ishtar's major weakness - EM damage.
What are you going to use against a sniping Ishtar fleet? The best option is the Apoc, but Amarr is the least-played race and an Apoc with beams basically requires AWU V to even undock. Large artillery? Proton L has a 96km optimal, it can't really reach a 130km sniping Ishtar and it has problems tracking it even at that range. Medium beams and projectiles don't have the range to hit a sniping Ishtar even on optimal range-bonused ships.
The same problem occurs against brawling Ishtars, close in, lasers have trouble tracking because they have the worst tracking. Autocannons have been nerfed into a godawful weapons system in general and the best missile boats are locked into kinetic (the worst damage type to use against an Ishtar) due to their bonuses. So, how are you going to apply EM? Ishtars are free to fly around with a giant EM hole, confident that it's very difficult for anyone to take advantage. To deal with sentries? Rohk comes to mind, as does any maurader-- large rails will do the job easily, as will beams and cruise...artillery will be in falloff and fire a bit slow for the purpose. Get outside that drone control range--- which is only 100 or less for 99.9999% of all drone boats and you are shooting a stationary cruiser. I don't care how bad you think laser tracking is, they can hit a stationary cruiser which is what a sentry looks like for targeting, and if you can't, it's not like target painters don't exist or are hard to use. Expensive? perhaps, but it can be done cheaper by the attack battlecruisers. They can counter by picking up their sentries and chasing you, but then they are doing exactly 0 DPS. Stop letting them fight how they want, and this problem will go away.
Ishtar has 134km drone control with two DCUs, no reason not to fit that in a sniping Ishtar fleet.
The Rokh deals kin/therm damage. This is the worst possible thing you could use. The typical fleet-fit Ishtar with links has around 95% kinetic resist.
The Ishtar isn't stationary. Brawling Ishtars are using heavy drones, they don't need to stand still. Sniping Ishtars can orbit their own drones. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10835
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:06:00 -
[326] - Quote
Keep the optimal range bonus on the ishtar as-is. Drop the tracking bonus entirely. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1162
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:06:00 -
[327] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Xequecal wrote:Nerfing the range on the Ishtar is actually fairly significant.
One of the biggest problems with the Ishtar is that it can shoot from outside the range of any medium-sized weapons except for railguns, and railguns shoot into its T2 resists. This is compounded by the fact that the Megathron is vastly superior to all the other gun-based battleships in basically every way, and it's also on kin/therm damage. This makes it very difficult to exploit the Ishtar's major weakness - EM damage.
What are you going to use against a sniping Ishtar fleet? The best option is the Apoc, but Amarr is the least-played race and an Apoc with beams basically requires AWU V to even undock. Large artillery? Proton L has a 96km optimal, it can't really reach a 130km sniping Ishtar and it has problems tracking it even at that range. Medium beams and projectiles don't have the range to hit a sniping Ishtar even on optimal range-bonused ships.
The same problem occurs against brawling Ishtars, close in, lasers have trouble tracking because they have the worst tracking. Autocannons have been nerfed into a godawful weapons system in general and the best missile boats are locked into kinetic (the worst damage type to use against an Ishtar) due to their bonuses. So, how are you going to apply EM? Ishtars are free to fly around with a giant EM hole, confident that it's very difficult for anyone to take advantage. To deal with sentries? Rohk comes to mind, as does any maurader-- large rails will do the job easily, as will beams and cruise...artillery will be in falloff and fire a bit slow for the purpose. Get outside that drone control range--- which is only 100 or less for 99.9999% of all drone boats and you are shooting a stationary cruiser. I don't care how bad you think laser tracking is, they can hit a stationary cruiser which is what a sentry looks like for targeting, and if you can't, it's not like target painters don't exist or are hard to use. Expensive? perhaps, but it can be done cheaper by the attack battlecruisers. They can counter by picking up their sentries and chasing you, but then they are doing exactly 0 DPS. Stop letting them fight how they want, and this problem will go away. Ishtar has 134km drone control with two DCUs, no reason not to fit that in a sniping Ishtar fleet. The Rokh deals kin/therm damage. This is the worst possible thing you could use. The typical fleet-fit Ishtar with links has around 95% kinetic resist. The Ishtar isn't stationary. Brawling Ishtars are using heavy drones, they don't need to stand still. Sniping Ishtars can orbit their own drones.
I think he meant to shoot the sentry instead of the Ishtar. It's stupid because his BS can't target as fast as you drop sentry and you are still dpsing him but meh...
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Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:10:00 -
[328] - Quote
"maybe I didnt explain myself, sorry - not native english. when a drone ship drop connection to its drones, those will stop and become immobile targets - easily blapped by anybody, the only defence a small or even medium drone has is when its orbiting its target. so if ewar do the same it basically means singleshotting all the droneship weapons."
So be it. I'm ok with that. I should have to fit my ship to prevent losing connection with my drones.
When I am flying my Apoc in missions, and I get tracking disrupted, damped or ecm'd, it affects my ship's effectiveness. I dont complain about it. I fit my ship to compensate the best I can. However, if I use a Domi, Ishtar or Armageddon, ewar does not affect the effectiveness of my drones/sentries. They keep shooting and tearing through targets, even though I cant target the rats or my guns cant track. So why is it ok for ewar to affect my ship but it doesn't affect my drones? To me, making ewar hitting my ship affect my drones is common sense, but then why call it common sense when its not so common? |
Judas Lonestar
Stryker Industries
78
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:14:00 -
[329] - Quote
Musashibou Benkei wrote:Tempest is fine as it is now with its versatility in choice of either shield or armor fitting. If you're going to take a slot and put it into the lows, take it from high instead of mid.
As many people have stated, the problem with ishtars is their ability to use sentries and be insanely mobile as well. Outside of using bombs in null, low sec fights have no "good" way of taking away their dps unless you want to sacrifice a smarty battleship to the pvp Gods each time.
On a side note, you guys at CCP need to not just "tweak the current" but also keep adding new things. The last thing you actually added to the game was a single t2 mining frigate and nothing else (I'm not counting the mordus ships because I don't consider them "line ships"). It's just a circling of encouraging/forcing people to train skills they didn't have to train before or further eyecandy.
Where is the t2 smartbombing ship? Where is the mobile cyno jamming ship? Where is the sub-cap mini-triage ship? I'm not saying these ideas are good or anything but goddamn; these latest patches are seriously lacking in actual new content.
Oh, if we get to request new things can I request an "Anti Ewar" hull that gets weird modules and bonuses specifically created to counter neuts, jams and disruptors?
Kind of like the Wild Weasel of Eve, only made by some Pirate faction rather than McDonnell Douglas (To name one). |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:17:00 -
[330] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Xequecal wrote:Nerfing the range on the Ishtar is actually fairly significant.
One of the biggest problems with the Ishtar is that it can shoot from outside the range of any medium-sized weapons except for railguns, and railguns shoot into its T2 resists. This is compounded by the fact that the Megathron is vastly superior to all the other gun-based battleships in basically every way, and it's also on kin/therm damage. This makes it very difficult to exploit the Ishtar's major weakness - EM damage.
What are you going to use against a sniping Ishtar fleet? The best option is the Apoc, but Amarr is the least-played race and an Apoc with beams basically requires AWU V to even undock. Large artillery? Proton L has a 96km optimal, it can't really reach a 130km sniping Ishtar and it has problems tracking it even at that range. Medium beams and projectiles don't have the range to hit a sniping Ishtar even on optimal range-bonused ships.
The same problem occurs against brawling Ishtars, close in, lasers have trouble tracking because they have the worst tracking. Autocannons have been nerfed into a godawful weapons system in general and the best missile boats are locked into kinetic (the worst damage type to use against an Ishtar) due to their bonuses. So, how are you going to apply EM? Ishtars are free to fly around with a giant EM hole, confident that it's very difficult for anyone to take advantage. To deal with sentries? Rohk comes to mind, as does any maurader-- large rails will do the job easily, as will beams and cruise...artillery will be in falloff and fire a bit slow for the purpose. Get outside that drone control range--- which is only 100 or less for 99.9999% of all drone boats and you are shooting a stationary cruiser. I don't care how bad you think laser tracking is, they can hit a stationary cruiser which is what a sentry looks like for targeting, and if you can't, it's not like target painters don't exist or are hard to use. Expensive? perhaps, but it can be done cheaper by the attack battlecruisers. They can counter by picking up their sentries and chasing you, but then they are doing exactly 0 DPS. Stop letting them fight how they want, and this problem will go away. Ishtar has 134km drone control with two DCUs, no reason not to fit that in a sniping Ishtar fleet. The Rokh deals kin/therm damage. This is the worst possible thing you could use. The typical fleet-fit Ishtar with links has around 95% kinetic resist. The Ishtar isn't stationary. Brawling Ishtars are using heavy drones, they don't need to stand still. Sniping Ishtars can orbit their own drones.
Shoot the Drone. It can't move, it's fat, and it does not have enough HP to matter. Dead drones do no damage. A Rohk will hit stuff from 200km away and still be in optimal range of the guns. You will need some sensor booster to target with, obviously.
Run them out of drones, and stop engaging the way they want you to. It does mean changing how you fight.
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