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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
259
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 07:14:00 -
[1531] - Quote
People, the problem with the Vagabond is that ACs are bad. The hull itself has insane stats. If you replaced the projectile bonuses on the Vagabond with laser RoF/optimal bonuses and bumped the PG a little so it could fit lasers, it would be more broken than the Ishtar. |
Mutly
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 07:20:00 -
[1532] - Quote
That was a close one, they almost had a gallente ship that did what it should. glad they killed that...
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Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
468
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 08:34:00 -
[1533] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:[its not about better or worse .. its about roles .. Vaga is a HAC HAC= resilient .. so tough not speedy ... Cynabal and stabber are both Attack cruisers.. Attack = speedy not tough
vaga seems too be both roles at the same time...
....and why is this a problem? If you fit it for "Attack" role it's a speedy kiter with good projection damage and a great tank for a kiter (hint: a L-ASB gives you more HP than a LSE II)
When fitted for brawling you get a fast brawler with 600 dps (selectable) and an effective tank of 93k eHP (10 cycles XL-ASB with Invul and ASB overloaded).
My only issue with the Vagabond is that this is all it can do. There are essentially two fits. I think if we moved a low to a mid and buffed the cpu by 10% it would open a couple more options but it wouldn't be super multi role. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
264
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 09:23:00 -
[1534] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:When fitted for brawling you get a fast brawler with 600 dps (selectable) and an effective tank of 93k eHP (10 cycles XL-ASB with Invul and ASB overloaded).
Whilst you're not wrong, it's worth pointing out that if the DPS spikes enough, you can pop between cycles as you have a very small buffer to soak up a few good hits. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1554
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 10:07:00 -
[1535] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:bassy nook wrote:Harvey James wrote:
Vagabond - please nerf its speed ... resilience is the theme of HACS remember so why is it just as quick as a stabber and cynabal???
Why nerf another minmatar ship? They are known for their speed and agility not their reiliency. I think the vagabond might have touched him in his no-no spot. Then he fails to understand minmatar lore and how their ships operate. I don't think i saw that quote before, but cynabal is actually faster than vagabond with MWD on. Base speed, vaga is faster, but MWD on, cynabal is faster. Not sure how that works, maybe its a mass/agility thing? Or EFT bug, idk. Then he mentions its faster than a stabber.. that gets me every time. In his world, t2 should be worse than t1 i guess. its not about better or worse .. its about roles .. Vaga is a HAC HAC= resilient .. so tough not speedy ... Cynabal and stabber are both Attack cruisers.. Attack = speedy not tough vaga seems too be both roles at the same time...
Nope.. HACs theme is not resilience. Hacs theme is SPECIALIZATION. VAga was the fastest no interceptor ship in eve for half of eve life.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1554
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 10:08:00 -
[1536] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:People, the problem with the Vagabond is that ACs are bad. The hull itself has insane stats. If you replaced the projectile bonuses on the Vagabond with laser RoF/optimal bonuses and bumped the PG a little so it could fit lasers, it would be more broken than the Ishtar.
Pulse laser vgabond would be insane..... "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1554
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 10:30:00 -
[1537] - Quote
Btw anyone tha ask for makign any minmatar ship even slower should be banished from talking about eve.
That is the very from of thinking that made the most damage in eve up to day.
If you nerf minmatar speed, we demand that blasters do the same damage as AC, that pulse lasers have same range as AC and that caldari have as low CPU as minmatar vessels.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Minty Aroma
Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
46
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 10:43:00 -
[1538] - Quote
Don't change the slot layout (shield tempests should be a thing) but change the role bonuses to one strong dps increase and falloff as well as a small further buff to speed - then finally we'll have a autocannon kity pest, which fits in well with it's attack BS role. |
Deriah Book
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 11:04:00 -
[1539] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?
Personally, the Tempest is my go-to BS. I would far rather it be 8/6/5 than 8/4/7. And that would be dumb. But that's just me and the way I use it.
As long as the Fleet Issue remains 8/5/7 I'd be happy, as I use that ship more anyway. But if even the TFI goes to 8/4/7 then I will no longer have a use for it and will need to look elsewhere for my go-to BS. (Which is unfortunate because the Tempest does it's job quite well. Plus, it's in that movie and I like flying it because it's somewhat famous.) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1554
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 11:37:00 -
[1540] - Quote
Minty Aroma wrote:Don't change the slot layout (shield tempests should be a thing) but change the role bonuses to one strong dps increase and falloff as well as a small further buff to speed - then finally we'll have a autocannon kity pest, which fits in well with it's attack BS role.
That is the obvious best solution. But I never dared to suggest it since CCP never follows the logical solutions. And frankly after 8 years trying.. I doubt we can make ccp to treat the tempest fairly on the same level they treated the hyperion. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
762
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 11:41:00 -
[1541] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Minty Aroma wrote:Don't change the slot layout (shield tempests should be a thing) but change the role bonuses to one strong dps increase and falloff as well as a small further buff to speed - then finally we'll have a autocannon kity pest, which fits in well with it's attack BS role. That is the obvious best solution. But I never dared to suggest it since CCP never follows the logical solutions. And frankly after 8 years trying.. I doubt we can make ccp to treat the tempest fairly on the same level they treated the hyperion.
hyperion got special treatment because active tanking is a joke. I think this is how they do active tanking now - they give the ship better stats to make up for having a useless bonus, so you can ignore it and use it in gangs. though I'm not sure when you'd want a buffer hype over a megathron, they overlap a lot. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1554
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 11:52:00 -
[1542] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Minty Aroma wrote:Don't change the slot layout (shield tempests should be a thing) but change the role bonuses to one strong dps increase and falloff as well as a small further buff to speed - then finally we'll have a autocannon kity pest, which fits in well with it's attack BS role. That is the obvious best solution. But I never dared to suggest it since CCP never follows the logical solutions. And frankly after 8 years trying.. I doubt we can make ccp to treat the tempest fairly on the same level they treated the hyperion. hyperion got special treatment because active tanking is a joke. I think this is how they do active tanking now - they give the ship better stats to make up for having a useless bonus, so you can ignore it and use it in gangs. though I'm not sure when you'd want a buffer hype over a megathron, they overlap a lot.
needing 2 damage bonuses to still do less damage than almost all its peers seems a joke as well for the tempest. Tempest had an use when battleships warped as fast as cruisers. Now... nothing. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
762
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 12:20:00 -
[1543] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Minty Aroma wrote:Don't change the slot layout (shield tempests should be a thing) but change the role bonuses to one strong dps increase and falloff as well as a small further buff to speed - then finally we'll have a autocannon kity pest, which fits in well with it's attack BS role. That is the obvious best solution. But I never dared to suggest it since CCP never follows the logical solutions. And frankly after 8 years trying.. I doubt we can make ccp to treat the tempest fairly on the same level they treated the hyperion. hyperion got special treatment because active tanking is a joke. I think this is how they do active tanking now - they give the ship better stats to make up for having a useless bonus, so you can ignore it and use it in gangs. though I'm not sure when you'd want a buffer hype over a megathron, they overlap a lot. needing 2 damage bonuses to still do less damage than almost all its peers seems a joke as well for the tempest. Tempest had an use when battleships warped as fast as cruisers. Now... nothing.
that's projectiles for you. more than tempest buffs, you should be pushing for projectile buffs. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
881
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 12:33:00 -
[1544] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Harvey James wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:bassy nook wrote:Harvey James wrote:
Vagabond - please nerf its speed ... resilience is the theme of HACS remember so why is it just as quick as a stabber and cynabal???
Why nerf another minmatar ship? They are known for their speed and agility not their reiliency. I think the vagabond might have touched him in his no-no spot. Then he fails to understand minmatar lore and how their ships operate. I don't think i saw that quote before, but cynabal is actually faster than vagabond with MWD on. Base speed, vaga is faster, but MWD on, cynabal is faster. Not sure how that works, maybe its a mass/agility thing? Or EFT bug, idk. Then he mentions its faster than a stabber.. that gets me every time. In his world, t2 should be worse than t1 i guess. its not about better or worse .. its about roles .. Vaga is a HAC HAC= resilient .. so tough not speedy ... Cynabal and stabber are both Attack cruisers.. Attack = speedy not tough vaga seems too be both roles at the same time... Nope.. HACs theme is not resilience. Hacs theme is SPECIALIZATION. VAga was the fastest no interceptor ship in eve for half of eve life.
specialised at being resilient .. we asked for a clear role Rise gave us resilience and buffed sensor strength and cap on all HAC's ... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
881
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 12:39:00 -
[1545] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Harvey James wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:bassy nook wrote:Harvey James wrote:
Vagabond - please nerf its speed ... resilience is the theme of HACS remember so why is it just as quick as a stabber and cynabal???
Why nerf another minmatar ship? They are known for their speed and agility not their reiliency. I think the vagabond might have touched him in his no-no spot. Then he fails to understand minmatar lore and how their ships operate. I don't think i saw that quote before, but cynabal is actually faster than vagabond with MWD on. Base speed, vaga is faster, but MWD on, cynabal is faster. Not sure how that works, maybe its a mass/agility thing? Or EFT bug, idk. Then he mentions its faster than a stabber.. that gets me every time. In his world, t2 should be worse than t1 i guess. its not about better or worse .. its about roles .. Vaga is a HAC HAC= resilient .. so tough not speedy ... Cynabal and stabber are both Attack cruisers.. Attack = speedy not tough vaga seems too be both roles at the same time... The vaga's ROLE is to be fast. Thats where the stabber line was leading up to, the stabber is fast, but weak once caught. The vaga is the same way, except instead of 20k EHP, it gets around 35k EHP due to the resilient nature of HAC's w/ t2 resists. It can't brawl, and has a lame applied dps at point range. If you look at the t1 lines, they all lead up to a similar counterpart with the t2 line with the same roles, they've just been improved (t2). Please read my earlier post where it outlines all this for you. If you slow the vaga down, then the stabber would need to be slower (since you're changing their roles), at which point the ships would suck and no one would use them, or even less than they (vaga) are now. Consider this. Which t1 attack cruiser is the fastest? Caracal? no. Omen? no. Thorax? no. Stabber? yes. Which HAC is the fastest? Vagabond! Did you think that maybe, minmatar SPECIALIZE in speed and not tank? Have you ever fought a stabber? They aren't the most tanky of cruisers (relying on 2 tank slots normally for shield tanking). The vagabond is NOT resilient, good pilots just know to use its speed to mitigate damage. If you're stupid and approach someone, the vaga WILL die to just about any brawler. Also, i don't see any other HAC that expects to tank with 1-2 slots. You're telling me the vaga is too strong with its 1-2 slot tank? Where as a sac has a resist bonus and up to 5 lows for a tank. Maybe you just need to get better and learn to counter it with long range weapons or having frigs in your gang. Do you not remember the original vagabond, it had a 5% velocity bonus as one of its traits. They cooked that into the base ship stats after the buff and added shield boost bonus so that it was actually unique and could tank half-way decently. If that doesn't tell you the implied role CCP had for it, then i give up. You can continue living in your own little world. EDIT: I would consider dropping shield boost bonus, if the vaga got an additional mid. And instead, giving another 10% fall-off bonus. Speed would remain the same though.
you talk about the other T1 versions being the same role as their T2 HAC counterpart ... zealot - omen .. omen is much quicker caracal - cerberus .. caracal is faster thorax - deimos .. thorax is quicker stabber - vaga .. vaga is slightly quicker
and so on and so on .. point being only the vaga is quicker than its T1 attack counterpart.. so in exchange for say 25m/s so it would still be 270m/s base speed still very quick ...give it more shield HP and perhaps trade a high for midslot Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 13:28:00 -
[1546] - Quote
Quote:you talk about the other T1 versions being the same role as their T2 HAC counterpart ... zealot - omen .. omen is much quicker caracal - cerberus .. caracal is faster thorax - deimos .. thorax is quicker stabber - vaga .. vaga is slightly quicker
and so on and so on .. point being only the vaga is quicker than its T1 attack counterpart.. so in exchange for say 25m/s so it would still be 270m/s base speed still very quick ...give it more shield HP and perhaps trade a high for midslot
You do realize theres more to roles than speed right. zeal shines in fleet doctrines due to excellent projection and good tank. Deimos is slower because its one of the best brawlers.. if it got faster, it would be hard for people keep it from landing tackle. You seem to be tunnel visioned on speed and fail to see that each ship is specialized for a specific role.
Vaga - speed/kite deimos - brawler cerb - anti frig/support zealot - anti-support, great projection/application
All other ships are tankier than vagabond, but slower. That to me seems like a logical way to balance ships. caldari have always had a bigger shield pool. Minmatar have always been faster. Do you not even know the lore? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1555
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 13:37:00 -
[1547] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:
specialised at being resilient .. we asked for a clear role Rise gave us resilience and buffed sensor strength and cap on all HAC's ...
Bullshit. No one ever asked for the vaga to b a brawler. READ vagabond descriptionh.. THE FASTEST CRUISER EVER BUILT!!!
You need anythign more clear than that? "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 13:46:00 -
[1548] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Harvey James wrote:
specialised at being resilient .. we asked for a clear role Rise gave us resilience and buffed sensor strength and cap on all HAC's ...
Bullshit. No one ever asked for the vaga to b a brawler. READ vagabond descriptionh.. THE FASTEST CRUISER EVER BUILT!!! You need anythign more clear than that?
Im beginning to suspect harvey is a troll. No one has complained about vagabond but him. Then ignores the points provided. Either hes trolling or a vagabond destroyed his ship and wants it nerfed because he's bad. |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
456
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 14:52:00 -
[1549] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Do you even know how important the tracking bonus is on ishtar? It will still be used yes but this nerf puts it into line with other hacs.
Agreed, it really is all about the tracking and the speed tank. Id rather see this for now, and more later if it needs it. This with the increase in speed of the other AHACs is nice. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:27:00 -
[1550] - Quote
I think the vaga needs a -1 PG nerf, because as it is, it just fits a storyline 100mn MWD and then makes a heated 12km/s pre-links with snakes in and nothing else fitted. Make it require at least 1 power module for such a thing. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
881
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:31:00 -
[1551] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Quote:you talk about the other T1 versions being the same role as their T2 HAC counterpart ... zealot - omen .. omen is much quicker caracal - cerberus .. caracal is faster thorax - deimos .. thorax is quicker stabber - vaga .. vaga is slightly quicker
and so on and so on .. point being only the vaga is quicker than its T1 attack counterpart.. so in exchange for say 25m/s so it would still be 270m/s base speed still very quick ...give it more shield HP and perhaps trade a high for midslot You do realize theres more to roles than speed right. zeal shines in fleet doctrines due to excellent projection and good tank. Deimos is slower because its one of the best brawlers.. if it got faster, it would be hard for people keep it from landing tackle. You seem to be tunnel visioned on speed and fail to see that each ship is specialized for a specific role. Vaga - speed/kite deimos - brawler cerb - anti frig/support zealot - anti-support, great projection/application All other ships are tankier than vagabond, but slower. That to me seems like a logical way to balance ships. caldari have always had a bigger shield pool. Minmatar have always been faster. Do you not even know the lore?
you keep changing your argument when it suits you .. i was responding to your post about speed .. with a speed based post myself ... now your saying its not all about speed but something else... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
881
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:34:00 -
[1552] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Harvey James wrote:
specialised at being resilient .. we asked for a clear role Rise gave us resilience and buffed sensor strength and cap on all HAC's ...
Bullshit. No one ever asked for the vaga to b a brawler. READ vagabond descriptionh.. THE FASTEST CRUISER EVER BUILT!!! You need anythign more clear than that? Im beginning to suspect harvey is a troll. No one has complained about vagabond but him. Then ignores the points provided. Either hes trolling or a vagabond destroyed his ship and wants it nerfed because he's bad.
im just asking for consistency across the board.. also its not the fastest ever built anymore .. the cynabal is .. so the description needs updating anyway ... also people do use it as a ASB brawler quite surprisingly . Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Red Teufel
Hard Knocks Inc.
387
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:39:00 -
[1553] - Quote
also who knew the counter to an ishtar gang is a Micro Jump drive BC fleet....there you go. ishtar countered. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:44:00 -
[1554] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Harvey James wrote:
specialised at being resilient .. we asked for a clear role Rise gave us resilience and buffed sensor strength and cap on all HAC's ...
Bullshit. No one ever asked for the vaga to b a brawler. READ vagabond descriptionh.. THE FASTEST CRUISER EVER BUILT!!! You need anythign more clear than that? Im beginning to suspect harvey is a troll. No one has complained about vagabond but him. Then ignores the points provided. Either hes trolling or a vagabond destroyed his ship and wants it nerfed because he's bad. im just asking for consistency across the board.. also its not the fastest ever built anymore .. the cynabal is .. so the description needs updating anyway ... also people do use it as a ASB brawler quite surprisingly . cynabal posts 329m/s with all 5s and no prop. Vaga posts 369m/s. Prop mods affect these two ships very differently because of their different mass. Cynabal, like all faction cruisers, has a very low mass comparatively, being under 10k kg, while a vaga is middle of the road for cruisers at 11,590,000 kg. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:02:00 -
[1555] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Quote:you talk about the other T1 versions being the same role as their T2 HAC counterpart ... zealot - omen .. omen is much quicker caracal - cerberus .. caracal is faster thorax - deimos .. thorax is quicker stabber - vaga .. vaga is slightly quicker
and so on and so on .. point being only the vaga is quicker than its T1 attack counterpart.. so in exchange for say 25m/s so it would still be 270m/s base speed still very quick ...give it more shield HP and perhaps trade a high for midslot You do realize theres more to roles than speed right. zeal shines in fleet doctrines due to excellent projection and good tank. Deimos is slower because its one of the best brawlers.. if it got faster, it would be hard for people keep it from landing tackle. You seem to be tunnel visioned on speed and fail to see that each ship is specialized for a specific role. Vaga - speed/kite deimos - brawler cerb - anti frig/support zealot - anti-support, great projection/application All other ships are tankier than vagabond, but slower. That to me seems like a logical way to balance ships. caldari have always had a bigger shield pool. Minmatar have always been faster. Do you not even know the lore? you keep changing your argument when it suits you .. i was responding to your post about speed .. with a speed based post myself ... now your saying its not all about speed but something else...
Im not changing anything ive been saying. You just dont seem to grasp the concept of the vagas ROLE is the speed. HAC specialize. The vaga is fast with a moderate tank. While other ships are slower, with more tank. What part do u not get? Ive been saying that from the beginning.
You nerf a kiters speed, it no longer is a kiter, but a brawler. Vagas bonuses are not for brawling.
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
763
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:19:00 -
[1556] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Harvey James wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Quote:you talk about the other T1 versions being the same role as their T2 HAC counterpart ... zealot - omen .. omen is much quicker caracal - cerberus .. caracal is faster thorax - deimos .. thorax is quicker stabber - vaga .. vaga is slightly quicker
and so on and so on .. point being only the vaga is quicker than its T1 attack counterpart.. so in exchange for say 25m/s so it would still be 270m/s base speed still very quick ...give it more shield HP and perhaps trade a high for midslot You do realize theres more to roles than speed right. zeal shines in fleet doctrines due to excellent projection and good tank. Deimos is slower because its one of the best brawlers.. if it got faster, it would be hard for people keep it from landing tackle. You seem to be tunnel visioned on speed and fail to see that each ship is specialized for a specific role. Vaga - speed/kite deimos - brawler cerb - anti frig/support zealot - anti-support, great projection/application All other ships are tankier than vagabond, but slower. That to me seems like a logical way to balance ships. caldari have always had a bigger shield pool. Minmatar have always been faster. Do you not even know the lore? you keep changing your argument when it suits you .. i was responding to your post about speed .. with a speed based post myself ... now your saying its not all about speed but something else... Im not changing anything ive been saying. You just dont seem to grasp the concept of the vagas ROLE is the speed. HAC specialize. The vaga is fast with a moderate tank. While other ships are slower, with more tank. What part do u not get? Ive been saying that from the beginning. You nerf a kiters speed, it no longer is a kiter, but a brawler. Vagas bonuses are not for brawling.
brawling is not inherently slow. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:53:00 -
[1557] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Harvey James wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Quote:you talk about the other T1 versions being the same role as their T2 HAC counterpart ... zealot - omen .. omen is much quicker caracal - cerberus .. caracal is faster thorax - deimos .. thorax is quicker stabber - vaga .. vaga is slightly quicker
and so on and so on .. point being only the vaga is quicker than its T1 attack counterpart.. so in exchange for say 25m/s so it would still be 270m/s base speed still very quick ...give it more shield HP and perhaps trade a high for midslot You do realize theres more to roles than speed right. zeal shines in fleet doctrines due to excellent projection and good tank. Deimos is slower because its one of the best brawlers.. if it got faster, it would be hard for people keep it from landing tackle. You seem to be tunnel visioned on speed and fail to see that each ship is specialized for a specific role. Vaga - speed/kite deimos - brawler cerb - anti frig/support zealot - anti-support, great projection/application All other ships are tankier than vagabond, but slower. That to me seems like a logical way to balance ships. caldari have always had a bigger shield pool. Minmatar have always been faster. Do you not even know the lore? you keep changing your argument when it suits you .. i was responding to your post about speed .. with a speed based post myself ... now your saying its not all about speed but something else... Im not changing anything ive been saying. You just dont seem to grasp the concept of the vagas ROLE is the speed. HAC specialize. The vaga is fast with a moderate tank. While other ships are slower, with more tank. What part do u not get? Ive been saying that from the beginning. You nerf a kiters speed, it no longer is a kiter, but a brawler. Vagas bonuses are not for brawling. brawling is not inherently slow.
If the vagabond gets slower, it might as well be a brawler is what i meant. Currently there are 5 or 6 cruisers that are just as fast, if not faster than vagabond. If you slow it down more, its going to be overwhelmed, and open the door to even more ships out pacing it and landing a scram. Once its scrammed, its game over. |
Sevchenko Valens
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 19:48:00 -
[1558] - Quote
I kind of like the Ishtar. Just sayin' |
Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
283
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Posted - 2014.08.15 23:10:00 -
[1559] - Quote
Just ignore Harvey. If you look up his posting history in these types of threads all he ever argues for are more nerfs to Minmatar ships. He wants them all to be slow bricks with no DPS. He's basically a troll.
Minmatar ships aren't what they once were. With the tieracide initiative lots of other ships have gotten faster, have better damage application, etc. Just look at the once mighty Rifter. It's now outclassed in every way by the other T1 frigs. This goes for many of the Matari T2 hulls as well; Muninn, Huginn, Vagabond, Wolf, Jaguar, etc. These ships all need some love to make them competitive with their contemporaries. Sorry but another few meters per second speed boost isn't going to suddenly make the Muninn a good HAC. Please take another look at its role, slot layout, etc.
Finally, please don't make the Tempest even worse by giving it a weird slot layout. |
unslaught
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.08.16 01:12:00 -
[1560] - Quote
in the end i'm happy with the balance they made. the munnin seems still pretty useless but since i can't fly it.
the ishtar used to be a crappy vessel, they made it awesome because of players frustration (drones used to suck pretty bad, heavies did like 300dps with max skills). so they changed it to be a monster drone carrier. now it's op...
my point is: there will always be an "op" ship in each class, if the playstyle changes it becomes another ship and so on, and so on...
good to know that ccp won't rush into huge changes with the "normal" ships (faction should be op and weird).
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