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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tyler Oney
Raiders of the Lost Liquor Cabinet
0
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Posted - 2014.07.30 16:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Okay so I'm in a mild panic mode. Firstly I'm typing this on my phone so excuse any spelling errors. Secondly heres whats going on:
So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty.-á
Well now a GM has taken all the isk leaving me negative like 600mil amd and change.-á
Why an I being punished for intelligently using a market inflation to my advantage?-á
I'm not sure that what I did was wrong. I thought it was smart? I've already sent an email to ccp i was just curious what you more experienced players know and could maybe shead some light on this for me?
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Jur Tissant
Unreal Darkness
109
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Posted - 2014.07.30 16:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hmmm. It certainly doesn't seem like an obvious exploit. I think the burden here should be on CCP to ensure that the rules are crystal clear.
However I'm not sure this is the right forum. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19897
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Posted - 2014.07.30 16:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
If CCP leave anybody with a negative wallet it's generally because they're involved in RMT and/or botting. Sometimes innocents get caught up in the process because they inadvertently buy something from a player who sells isk for RL cash.
Petition it via the support ticket mechanism. Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine and into the brain, where they ferment. They then migrate to your keyboard via your fingers. That's where shiptoasts come from.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3945
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Posted - 2014.07.30 17:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tyler Oney wrote:Okay so I'm in a mild panic mode. Firstly I'm typing this on my phone so excuse any spelling errors. Secondly heres whats going on:
So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty.-á
Well now a GM has taken all the isk leaving me negative like 600mil amd and change.-á
Why an I being punished for intelligently using a market inflation to my advantage?-á
I'm not sure that what I did was wrong. I thought it was smart? I've already sent an email to ccp i was just curious what you more experienced players know and could maybe shead some light on this for me? You didn't "intelligently" do anything. You hunted out an item which had been altered in a patch, but had not had it's market price updated. You then proceeded to pelt your alt for your own bounty (something which alone is an obvious exploit, since the reason bounties were changed was to stop that) and you hoped you'd get away with it. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Tyler Oney
Raiders of the Lost Liquor Cabinet
0
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Posted - 2014.07.30 17:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah but it was on the regular market tho thats where I got the stuff. So thats why im confused I didnt think it was an exploit seemed smart to me, but to leave me 600 + mil in the hole...thats just low |
Tyler Oney
Raiders of the Lost Liquor Cabinet
0
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Posted - 2014.07.30 17:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Tyler Oney wrote:Okay so I'm in a mild panic mode. Firstly I'm typing this on my phone so excuse any spelling errors. Secondly heres whats going on:
So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty.-á
Well now a GM has taken all the isk leaving me negative like 600mil amd and change.-á
Why an I being punished for intelligently using a market inflation to my advantage?-á
I'm not sure that what I did was wrong. I thought it was smart? I've already sent an email to ccp i was just curious what you more experienced players know and could maybe shead some light on this for me? You didn't "intelligently" do anything. You hunted out an item which had been altered in a patch, but had not had it's market price updated. You then proceeded to pelt your alt for your own bounty (something which alone is an obvious exploit, since the reason bounties were changed was to stop that) and you hoped you'd get away with it.
I didnt down anything I actually stumbled across the item cause I had some in my items hanger. So no. I didnt hunt anything down just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there. And no its not an obvious exploit. For the fact that I could usey alt to attack my main anytime and claim bounty. So I disagree with that. |
Hiply Rustic
A Private Space Venture
100
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Posted - 2014.07.30 18:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tyler Oney wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Tyler Oney wrote:Okay so I'm in a mild panic mode. Firstly I'm typing this on my phone so excuse any spelling errors. Secondly heres whats going on:
So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty.-á
Well now a GM has taken all the isk leaving me negative like 600mil amd and change.-á
Why an I being punished for intelligently using a market inflation to my advantage?-á
I'm not sure that what I did was wrong. I thought it was smart? I've already sent an email to ccp i was just curious what you more experienced players know and could maybe shead some light on this for me? You didn't "intelligently" do anything. You hunted out an item which had been altered in a patch, but had not had it's market price updated. You then proceeded to pelt your alt for your own bounty (something which alone is an obvious exploit, since the reason bounties were changed was to stop that) and you hoped you'd get away with it. I didnt down anything I actually stumbled across the item cause I had some in my items hanger. So no. I didnt hunt anything down just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there. And no its not an obvious exploit. For the fact that I could usey alt to attack my main anytime and claim bounty. So I disagree with that.
So, let me make sure I have this; You alt-nuked yourself after loading your boat with goods whose value you knew to be unintentionally over-inflated so you could clear your own bounty...which CCP made changes to the bounty system to stop...and you're wondering whether you are being punished for it?
Yes, I see this going places. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the stong-willied need apply.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3949
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Posted - 2014.07.30 18:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tyler Oney wrote:just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there. This was your problem. You took advantage of a bug. That's exploiting. Thanks your lucky stars you didn't get a ban and you just had your isk removed. I also don't believe for a moment that you "stumbled" onto it, but that's beside the point.
Tyler Oney wrote:And no its not an obvious exploit. For the fact that I could usey alt to attack my main anytime and claim bounty. So I disagree with that. Of course it is. The bounty is supposed to be at a level that prevents people earning isk by killing their alts. They specifically set out to do that. If suddenly a worthless item is increased in price due to an expansion bug which means you suddenly can make isk from killing your alts and claiming a bounty, that's obviously an exploit. Again, accept that you've been punished without a ban and move on. Don't do it again.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Tyler Oney
Raiders of the Lost Liquor Cabinet
0
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Posted - 2014.07.30 18:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Like I said I can see the argument I just wasnt sure. I didnt know that it wasn't okay to do i thought it was like a price change or something that was going to happen. I dont follow the market ever I generally just buy what I want then move on I saw thos and thought it was an opportunity I clearly i was wrong thats all I was trying to clear up. I dont follow market prices or anything |
Tyler Oney
Raiders of the Lost Liquor Cabinet
0
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Posted - 2014.07.30 18:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Tyler Oney wrote:just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there. This was your problem. You took advantage of a bug. That's exploiting. Thanks your lucky stars you didn't get a ban and you just had your isk removed. I also don't believe for a moment that you "stumbled" onto it, but that's beside the point. Tyler Oney wrote:And no its not an obvious exploit. For the fact that I could usey alt to attack my main anytime and claim bounty. So I disagree with that. Of course it is. The bounty is supposed to be at a level that prevents people earning isk by killing their alts. They specifically set out to do that. If suddenly a worthless item is increased in price due to an expansion bug which means you suddenly can make isk from killing your alts and claiming a bounty, that's obviously an exploit. Again, accept that you've been punished without a ban and move on. Don't do it again.
I'm not arguing that I get it. Like I just said I didnt know it was because of a big but then again in retrospect I should have known if its to good to be true it usually is lol lesson learned
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Malcolm Shinhwa
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
2733
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Posted - 2014.07.30 19:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
The bounty system is bad. Its only use is making carebears cry. Hardly a compelling game mechanic. Now along with making carebears cry, it is apparently easily exploitable when CCP mucks with the market. I can't wait for CCP's announcement on this, "Hey, guys, uh, please don't put expensive things in your ship that didn't cost you very much." If we're not supposed to shoot pods in hisec, why are they filled with meat? |
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
777
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 20:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you notice the neighbour has gone out leaving their back door open and there is a hot fresh pie on the table that doesn't mean that you're entitled to take a slice. Concord Approved Trader |
Leto Thule
Narwhals Ate My Duck. Narwhals Ate My Duck
971
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Posted - 2014.07.30 20:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:If you notice the neighbour has gone out leaving their back door open and there is a hot fresh pie on the table that doesn't mean that you're entitled to take a slice.
You are correct.
If you take just a slice, there is evidence that someone has taken said pie.
If you take the whole pie, leaving no trace, you then can correctly assume the neighbor will determine that the creation of the pie, all the steps involved in cooking said pie, and placement of the pie on the table NEVER REALLY HAPPENED.
OP SUCCESS. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
If you didnt vote Psychotic Monk, you voted for Hello Kitty in space |
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
777
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 20:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Boom Boom Longtime wrote:If you notice the neighbour has gone out leaving their back door open and there is a hot fresh pie on the table that doesn't mean that you're entitled to take a slice. You are correct. If you take just a slice, there is evidence that someone has taken said pie. If you take the whole pie, leaving no trace, you then can correctly assume the neighbor will determine that the creation of the pie, all the steps involved in cooking said pie, and placement of the pie on the table NEVER REALLY HAPPENED. OP SUCCESS. In a real scenario i would take a slice.
If it was good i would take the rest of the pie leaving a thank you, "at least i never burgled your house" note as i departed closing the back door behind me to deter other potential intruders.
Concord Approved Trader |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1322
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Posted - 2014.07.30 20:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?
You folks really disappoint me. Epic Space Cat |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
801
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Posted - 2014.07.30 20:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?
You folks really disappoint me.
From what I saw it wasn't a market fluctuation, it was an actual bug affecting the price of certain items (like RAM) in a major way.
Some people (like OP) used this bug to clear out their bounties very very cheaply.
Apparently CCP took exception to this........
Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
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Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1322
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Posted - 2014.07.30 20:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Xuixien wrote:Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?
You folks really disappoint me. From what I saw it wasn't a market fluctuation, it was an actual bug affecting the price of certain items (like RAM) in a major way. Some people (like OP) used this bug to clear out their bounties very very cheaply. Apparently CCP took exception to this........
So there was a bug which made people post really low buy orders for an item? Or really high sell orders? Or what? Epic Space Cat |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1685
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Posted - 2014.07.30 21:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tyler Oney wrote:So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty. This is unclear.
Are you saying the sell orders were lower price than the buy orders? Because that's impossible.
If not, please explain what you mean by 'cheap to buy' and 'really high resale price'. EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
4327
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 21:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Xuixien wrote:Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?
You folks really disappoint me. From what I saw it wasn't a market fluctuation, it was an actual bug affecting the price of certain items (like RAM) in a major way. Some people (like OP) used this bug to clear out their bounties very very cheaply. Apparently CCP took exception to this........ So there was a bug which made people post really low buy orders for an item? Or really high sell orders? Or what? The bounty system's estimate was vastly out of sync with the actual market price of the item. It's a bug. The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1322
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 21:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Xuixien wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Xuixien wrote:Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?
You folks really disappoint me. From what I saw it wasn't a market fluctuation, it was an actual bug affecting the price of certain items (like RAM) in a major way. Some people (like OP) used this bug to clear out their bounties very very cheaply. Apparently CCP took exception to this........ So there was a bug which made people post really low buy orders for an item? Or really high sell orders? Or what? The bounty system's estimate was vastly out of sync with the actual market price of the item. It's a bug. Edit: OP was obviously fully aware of the bug. He didn't figure it out himself, he read about it somewhere and tried it out himself, and then got his ill-gotten ISK nabbed. Edit #2: Precise explanation here
You sure showed that OP had malice aforethought! Epic Space Cat |
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
4327
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Posted - 2014.07.30 21:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:You sure showed that OP had malice aforethought! Malice? No
Ability to recognize it's an exploit? Yes
Common sense to avoid being 600m in the hole? No The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1322
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 21:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
[quote=Sibyyl Ability to recognize it's an exploit? Yes[/quote]
I missed this part. Can you please point out where OP knew it was an "exploit" before he did it? Epic Space Cat |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
4328
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 21:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Sibyyl wrote: Ability to recognize it's an exploit? Yes
I missed this part. Can you please point out where OP knew it was an "exploit" before he did it? I'm sorry, this isn't L.A. and OP isn't OJ.
But you can keep pretending you're Johnny Cochran if you'd like. The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1322
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 22:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Xuixien wrote:Sibyyl wrote: Ability to recognize it's an exploit? Yes
I missed this part. Can you please point out where OP knew it was an "exploit" before he did it? I'm sorry, this isn't L.A. and OP isn't OJ. But you can keep pretending you're Johnny Cochran if you'd like.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize asking for a logical and concise argument to back up your conclusions was not something allowed here.
Carry on talking out of your ass.
Epic Space Cat |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
253
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Posted - 2014.07.30 22:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Tyler Oney wrote:just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there. This was your problem. You took advantage of a bug. That's exploiting. Thanks your lucky stars you didn't get a ban and you just had your isk removed. I also don't believe for a moment that you "stumbled" onto it, but that's beside the point.
I wouldn't call it a but so much as an artifact of the market changes to R.A.M. which is obviously what the OP is referring to. As to whether CCP considers that an exploit, I couldn't say. It's certainly an edge case. You used the patch changes to exploit the bounty system and make money by blowing stuff up, which the %20 payout is supposed to prevent, as such you knowingly used a mechanic in a way you knew was not supposed to work.
On the other hand, the reason it worked is because CCP changed R.A.M. which you had nothing to do with, and CCP failed to adjust the way the bounty system responded to that change. As such I'm not convinced you're really at fault. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
4329
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 22:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize asking for a logical and concise argument to back up your conclusions was not something allowed here.
Carry on talking out of your ass.
From your previous quote (below) it doesn't seem like you understand how it was done. I'll be happy to have an argument with you when you stop being deliberately obtuse.
Educate yourself. I've provided a link.
Xuixien wrote:So there was a bug which made people post really low buy orders for an item? Or really high sell orders? Or what?
The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8316
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Posted - 2014.07.30 22:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
This does not add up. Why you want to "clear" a bounty anyway? They are inconsequential.
I am guessing what he actually did was try to turn his bounty into isk in his own pocket. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1688
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Posted - 2014.07.30 23:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Tyler Oney wrote:just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there. This was your problem. You took advantage of a bug. That's exploiting. Thanks your lucky stars you didn't get a ban and you just had your isk removed. I also don't believe for a moment that you "stumbled" onto it, but that's beside the point. I wouldn't call it a but so much as an artifact of the market changes to R.A.M. which is obviously what the OP is referring to. As to whether CCP considers that an exploit, I couldn't say. It's certainly an edge case. You used the patch changes to exploit the bounty system and make money by blowing stuff up, which the %20 payout is supposed to prevent, as such you knowingly used a mechanic in a way you knew was not supposed to work. On the other hand, the reason it worked is because CCP changed R.A.M. which you had nothing to do with, and CCP failed to adjust the way the bounty system responded to that change. As such I'm not convinced you're really at fault. If you think about it, every exploit is based on something CCP did. The whole game is something CCP did, actually
If last week you picked up some spare drones from your Gila buddy, you would've been doing something you could 'legally' do the week before and can 'legally' do now... yet you would've been in trouble.
I think GM action should be (and probably is) tied exactly to how 'knowingly' you do things and how 'repeatedly'. The OP's story is probably fake (can't find the killmails btw), while the dude that used a trick to cash-in one of the highest bounties in the game knowingly and repeatedly exploited the average market value miscalculation. EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
778
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 23:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:This does not add up. Why you want to "clear" a bounty anyway? They are inconsequential.
I am guessing what he actually did was try to turn his bounty into isk in his own pocket. If the neighbour has left his back door open, the fresh hot pie is there and you are hungry a consequential decision presents itself to be made.
You either take a slice or the pie assuming you choose that path, or you wait for the neighbour to return home and maybe offer you some.
When CCP own your house and you rent from them best to not do anything until they say you can. Concord Approved Trader |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
4329
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 23:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
*feeds BBLT a slice of pecan pie* The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) |
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