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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1325
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Posted - 2014.07.30 22:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not sure why ccp made these ships so strong. Perhaps they didn't realize how powerful they would be when combined with the buffs to drones.
In a way they are victim of their own success as no one will fight them unless it's bait.
Why not balance them with the other pirate ships? I don't care whether the buff the other pirate frigs and cruisers or nerf the worm and gila or both. But its pretty lopsided right now.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2847
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Posted - 2014.07.30 22:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way? |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2350
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Posted - 2014.07.30 22:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?
He did. He feels that they're overpowered because of the drones, mostly in light of the recent drone buffs.
That's not to say I - or anyone - agree with him, but it should answer your question. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8316
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Posted - 2014.07.30 22:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?
I imagine you could check his killboard and find your answer. I'd do it myself were I at home instead of work. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2847
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Posted - 2014.07.30 22:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way? He did. He feels that they're overpowered because of the drones, mostly in light of the recent drone buffs. That's not to say I - or anyone - agree with him, but it should answer your question.
~600 DPS isn't even that good though? Ishtars and VNIs can push 800 with just drones, and they're both considerably cheaper.
I'd like to know why he feels the drones are overpowered, at all. There are only two of the damn things anyway. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
18
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Posted - 2014.07.30 22:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
First people say they are underpowered, now they say they are overpowered, and then tomorrow they are suddenly underpowered again... |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2352
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Posted - 2014.07.30 22:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:First people say they are underpowered, now they say they are overpowered, and then tomorrow they are suddenly underpowered again... That's because...
It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of teaaaaaaaars... and it mooooves us alllllllll~ |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
692
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Posted - 2014.07.30 23:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
There are only 2 drones, but they are a bit robust. Each drone from a Worm or Gila hits as hard as several drones from other ships, to the point that effectively there are more than 5 drones worth of damage coming at you, and they don't pop all that much easier than the parent ship. |
Valkin Mordirc
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
39
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Posted - 2014.07.30 23:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.
However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.
They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in. Psychotic Monk for CSM9 |
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
847
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Posted - 2014.07.30 23:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting. Absolute maximum using T2 and "All V's" is 945 DPS on a Gila, but that is using 2 x Hammerhead II's, 4 x HAM II's with Rage ammo, 3 x DDA II's and a BCU II. It does retain a reasonable tank too.
Valkin Mordirc wrote: However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts. Not really, depends on the fit.
Valkin Mordirc wrote: They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in. That's very true. http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1325
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Posted - 2014.07.31 00:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?
Fair question let me go with the worm. Here is a fit that might not be optimal but its much better than other pirate frigates.
[Worm, Fittings.] Internal Force Field Array I Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
1MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Medium Ancillary Shield Booster
Rocket Launcher II Rocket Launcher II Empty
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Hobgoblin II Warrior II Hobgoblin II
321 dps with overheat and you can overheat the rockets for about 3 minutes. Put navy infernos in and it goes down to 306. Drones do 234 in dps so you don't need to worry about kiters too much nor do you need to worrry about tracking because hobs track like crazy (2.178) and orbit well within their optimal. (I looked at trying to td one drone to bring damage down but this looks futile) Without blue pill this tanks 168 with it tanks196. It has 5459 ehp buffer. What pirate frigate comes close?
Sure garmur has a great range advantage if you are into kitey stuff but I doubt I would mess with the warriors coming from a worm. Sure you can try to damp and out range it but that pretty much goes for any frigate. Its not a unique weakness of the worm.
So any pirate ship will fail against it . Nothing has the range flexibility of the light drones as well as the gank and tank. I mean with a daredevil great dps and nice web bonus but you won't have a chance with either rails or blasters. Same with dramiel.
Succubus has a nice ab bonus but its not agile enough to handle the speed and the tracking of its guns even with the bonus is not great. And eve if it had perfect trackign the gank and tank of the worm far surpass it close or long range. And its susceptable to neuts - oh yeah the worm fit has tank and gank completely immune to neuts.
Your best hope against the worm is you might be able to get away.
Other reasons to think the worm and gila are overpowered. They cost the most in the pirate classes of ships - by close to double. Worm buy order 90 mill gila buy order 311 mill. This is true even though the rattler is selling for cheap and you would think that would mean people getting these guristas ships are just getting gilas and worms!
Plus you can never get a fight in a worm unless its bait.
I am not upset about this because I really don't mind if one ship is overpowered. I was really just wondering if there was a reason these ships are so overpowered.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1325
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Posted - 2014.07.31 01:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Celthric Kanerian wrote:First people say they are underpowered, now they say they are overpowered, and then tomorrow they are suddenly underpowered again... That's because... It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of teaaaaaaaars... and it mooooves us alllllllll~
Please tell me how any fit from a daredevil, dramiel, succubus or cruror would have a chance of killing the worm fit I posted. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
1518
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Posted - 2014.07.31 02:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Your best bet is to ECM one of their two drones and halve their DPS. Can't do anything about the Worm's tank, though. J's before K's. Sudden Buggery is recruiting w-nerds and w-noobs. Mail your resume in today! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2355
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Posted - 2014.07.31 02:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
At least the Worm isn't the Whiptail, right? |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
246
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Posted - 2014.07.31 02:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
For your benefit: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-y-6PiGxOaHY/Uk7NlFsxaRI/AAAAAAAAA18/N5nLE78MPo0/s1600/eve+ccp+butthurt+form.gif |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1326
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Posted - 2014.07.31 02:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Your best bet is to ECM one of their two drones and halve their DPS. Can't do anything about the Worm's tank, though.
Thats a decent idea specifically for fighting worms but generally I don't like carrying ecm on unbonused ships. But for fighting worms putting two ecm (one for each drone) on a hook bill might be kinda funny. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2356
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Posted - 2014.07.31 04:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Trinkets friend wrote:Your best bet is to ECM one of their two drones and halve their DPS. Can't do anything about the Worm's tank, though. Thats a decent idea specifically for fighting worms but generally I don't like carrying ecm on unbonused ships. But for fighting worms putting two ecm (one for each drone) on a hook bill might be kinda funny.
Cling not to bonuses. Limit you, it will. |
Naomi Anthar
377
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Posted - 2014.07.31 05:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?
In every possible imaginable way, ships without any drawbacks. Overpowering anything around with superior tank , superior dps , superior damage projection, selectible damage types. Overpowering everything around hard.
On top of that nothing counters those ships, even fellow pirate ships look like a joke when you compare to worm and gila.
I'm surprised this comes up so late.
You can just ask those who fly Gila and worm ... even those people can't help but laugh thier ass on this ship !! UNLIMITED !! power compared to competition. Basically this ship is mass produced alliance tournament level of power ship. (before those new come ...)
Maybe for you - a person that "knows everything" *cough* it is suprising but it was always low sec the place where you use such ships mostly. Namely in plexes etc - and i can tell you that NOONE enters plex of worm - unless tard or maybe in his own worm.
And in low sec those ships are overkill.
For example even TOO STRONG DD - is actually WEAK when you compare it to worm. DPS aint much higher (and only if you go blasters) - damage projection is much worse - especially range. No selectible damage type and on top of that DD does not even have 50% of worms tank to begin with.
And its not that DD is weak - its blantly broken ship , op like hell. Yet somehow it possess some weak spots that you may try to exploit to beat it. Worm on the other hand ... those weak spots are so far unknown... despite people trying hard to find a hole in its defence or offence ... somehow ship persists, butchers entire gangs of other frigs. Stomps destroyers, assault frigs alike aswell. Not to mention it can take on huge range of cruisers.
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Naomi Anthar
377
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Posted - 2014.07.31 05:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.
However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.
They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in.
Alergic to neuts ? HAhahah dude you are joke. How ship with capless defence , capless missile launchers , capless drones is vulnerable to neuts ? Do i miss anything ?
What do you mean it cant move after being neuted out ? Oh hey just like every single ship in this game. So sorry your poor weak gila cant mwd with empty cap ... sure it must be true weakness.
You know what is vulnerable to neuts ? Succubus, daredevil, Phantasm and so on.
Go back to your L4 mission running.
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
147
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Posted - 2014.07.31 05:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
I've seen a good amount of dead Gila's and Worms. More than one would expect if they were overpowered.
Perhaps the issue is not the drones on the Gila and Worm but how you handle encounters with the ship itself. Given the unpredictability of what you may encounter, you have my sympathies.
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Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
93
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Posted - 2014.07.31 06:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Petrified wrote:I've seen a good amount of dead Gila's and Worms. More than one would expect if they were overpowered.
Perhaps the issue is not the drones on the Gila and Worm but how you handle encounters with the ship itself. Given the unpredictability of what you may encounter, you have my sympathies.
Most of the Gila KMs I have seen have been against a Gang. Not really a valid reason for saying something of OP or not.
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Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
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Posted - 2014.07.31 06:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either. |
Naomi Anthar
377
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Posted - 2014.07.31 06:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Petrified wrote:I've seen a good amount of dead Gila's and Worms. More than one would expect if they were overpowered.
Perhaps the issue is not the drones on the Gila and Worm but how you handle encounters with the ship itself. Given the unpredictability of what you may encounter, you have my sympathies.
Just because i saw shield tanked Stratios and shield tanked asteros ... doesnt mean ship is ****. Sure it can die.
I saw armor tanked worm aswell ... lol.
Truth is that doesnt matter how you apporach or handle encounter with worm you get screwed over. Period. Of course if it is not flown by monkey and ship is fit reasonably well. |
Naomi Anthar
377
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Posted - 2014.07.31 06:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either.
Worm can do this ... yeah even something that was known as unbeatable stuff actually is now ... countered. Guess by what. |
Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
193
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yeah I have to agree.
Crazy EHP Crazy Damage Projection (Drones) Crazy DPS Crazy Drone EHP
They have their price but the other pirate boats seems useless compared to the Gila, Worm , Orthus and Garmur.
There is something really really really wrong with these ships.
Edit : I dont think there is a T1/Faction frig counter to the Worm or Garmur tbh. http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
112
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote: ~600 DPS isn't even that good though? Ishtars and VNIs can push 800 with just drones, and they're both considerably cheaper.
I'd like to know why he feels the drones are overpowered, at all. There are only two of the damn things anyway.
Thats because Ishtar is obnoxiously overpowered too and should be attended with nerfs asap. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
647
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either.
Crow? Malediction? Kestrel? Ishkur? Tristan? Imicus? ASB Shield tankers with non-cap weapons? |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
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Posted - 2014.07.31 10:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Xequecal wrote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either. Crow? Malediction? Kestrel? Ishkur? Tristan? Imicus? ASB Shield tankers with non-cap weapons?
You get capped out and they warp off, you're not going to kill them. |
Squatdog
State Protectorate Caldari State
126
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Posted - 2014.07.31 11:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'm vaguely well-known in militia circles as something of a longtime Worm fancier and can safely say that yes, they are currently overpowered.
350DPS is just a silly amount of damage when paired with the Worm's inherent tank and damage application.
A simple solution would to remove one of the missile hardpoints to take the edge off the DPS, which would still leave the Worm with a utility highslot.
Quote:However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.
How, pray tell, is a ship with capless weapons and a capless tank 'allergic to neuts'?
Quote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either.
Awwwwwwwww...how cute.
A Goon thinks he knows about solo PVP! |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1327
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Posted - 2014.07.31 12:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way? [Lots of good stuff I thought was obvious to others when I made this post] For example even TOO STRONG DD - is actually WEAK when you compare it to worm. DPS aint much higher (and only if you go blasters) - damage projection is much worse - especially range. No selectible damage type and on top of that DD does not even have 50% of worms tank to begin with. And its not that DD is weak - its blantly broken ship , op like hell. Yet somehow it possess some weak spots that you may try to exploit to beat it. Worm on the other hand ... those weak spots are so far unknown... despite people trying hard to find a hole in its defence or offence ... somehow ship persists, butchers entire gangs of other frigs. Stomps destroyers, assault frigs alike aswell. Not to mention it can take on huge range of cruisers.
The last bit about the dd is perhaps where I would disagree. I tend to think the other pirate faction ships are too weak. I wouldn't mind if the worm was the bar that pirate ships are too meet. I don't think the dd should be nerfed. It is weaker than many afs that cost less than half and destroyers are about equal to it despite being 1/10 the price to fly.
I think maybe the pirate ships should meet somewhere between the worm and the dd or the others should be brought up to the worm. What I don't understand is why the worm is singled out in the pirate ship line up to be so much more powerful than the rest.
E.g., Give the succubus more agility and more power grid and maybe even another high turret slot. That would put it in line with the worm. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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