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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1327
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Posted - 2014.07.31 12:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Xequecal wrote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either. Crow? Malediction? Kestrel? Ishkur? Tristan? Imicus? ASB Shield tankers with non-cap weapons? You get capped out and they warp off, you're not going to kill them.
Just because you can say "oh ____" and then warp off in structure does not mean your ship is op. All capless pirate and even faction frigates will do that to the sentinal.
However all other pirate frigates and navy frigates will at best say "oh ____" and try to warp away from the worm.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
649
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Posted - 2014.07.31 13:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Xequecal wrote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either. Crow? Malediction? Kestrel? Ishkur? Tristan? Imicus? ASB Shield tankers with non-cap weapons? You get capped out and they warp off, you're not going to kill them.
Point range on the ceptors is 30+ km, Neut range is 27. Kestrels shoot you with Light missiles while ceptors hold you, same for Tristans with drones. Ishkurs have cap boosters to keep scram running and kill you with drones. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1327
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Posted - 2014.07.31 13:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
Squatdog wrote: Awwwwwwwww...how cute.
A Goon thinks he knows about solo PVP!
I am not sure what the point of his post was. It was cute thought. I don't know how these ships are made. Perhaps goons have an economic incentive to leave gurista ships overpowered because they are in gurista space? (again I really don't know enough about it to say whether this is a big deal or not) Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Valkin Mordirc
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2014.08.01 04:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Quote:I don't see how the worm is particularly allergic to neuts. Weapons and tank take no cap. Sure your scram does but thats true of all ships. Succubus and to a much lesser extent the daredevil needs to be careful but I am not sure why you say that of the worm .
Depending of the Worms fit I suppose would be a better way to put it. But again, the Worm isn't the be all end all. The 350 dps need Augmented Drones, otherwise you get around 300, the 10k buffer tank is tech 2 but it other assault frigates can also run up to that.
The Worm can do a huge amount of DPS with a good tank, but it is slow, a fast micro fitted ship can out run it's drones. The Worm from what I've seen is limited to a AB.
The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite properly.
I personally would say if the ships need a nerf, it would be a slight one, maybe keeping the DPS the same, but changing the drone HP bonus? Or limiting the fitting so that only a scram could be fitted rather than the point?
Quote:How, pray tell, is a ship with capless weapons and a capless tank 'allergic to neuts'?
Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k. Psychotic Monk for CSM9 |
Valkin Mordirc
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2014.08.01 04:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Double post/ Psychotic Monk for CSM9 |
Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
94
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Posted - 2014.08.01 07:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
[quote=Valkin Mordirc]Quote: The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite properly.
Warriors with good skills are pretty fast, unless you Crow is boosted it would have a hard time out running them.
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Valkin Mordirc
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2014.08.01 08:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:[quote=Valkin Mordirc] Quote: The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite properly.
Warriors with good skills are pretty fast, unless you Crow is boosted it would have a hard time out running them.
Admittedly yeah, very true.
I've been playing around with fitting, and it would definitely seem that the Worm and Gila do seem overpowered, in terms of DPS. Tank's I think are fine.
A Gila with Aug hammers and rage missiles on Overheat gets to very nearly 1000DPS, if you add faction DDA it would break the 1000DPS mark. Mark that with a 60k buffer tank, it'll burn any other cruiser, besides maybe Othrus. Psychotic Monk for CSM9 |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
228
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Posted - 2014.08.01 08:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
A garmur will kill one, but I'm not sure what that proves because they're utterly stupid too. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
274
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Posted - 2014.08.01 09:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
Luwc wrote:Yeah I have to agree.
Crazy EHP Crazy Damage Projection (Drones) Crazy DPS Crazy Drone EHP
They have their price but the other pirate boats seems useless compared to the Gila, Worm , Orthus and Garmur.
There is something really really really wrong with these ships.
Edit : I dont think there is a T1/Faction frig counter to the Worm or Garmur tbh.
Edit... yeah I think you didnt think at all..
Worms and Gilas are fine as they are and if you find one, fly and counter them with their own game and fly one of them yourself.
Shocking, I know.. signature |
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
137
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Posted - 2014.08.01 14:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Quote:I don't see how the worm is particularly allergic to neuts. Weapons and tank take no cap. Sure your scram does but thats true of all ships. Succubus and to a much lesser extent the daredevil needs to be careful but I am not sure why you say that of the worm . Depending of the Worms fit I suppose would be a better way to put it. But again, the Worm isn't the be all end all. The 350 dps need Augmented Drones, otherwise you get around 300, the 10k buffer tank is tech 2 but it other assault frigates can also run up to that. The Worm can do a huge amount of DPS with a good tank, but it is slow, a fast micro fitted ship can out run it's drones. The Worm from what I've seen is limited to a AB. The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite properly. I personally would say if the ships need a nerf, it would be a slight one, maybe keeping the DPS the same, but changing the drone HP bonus? Or limiting the fitting so that only a scram could be fitted rather than the point? Quote:How, pray tell, is a ship with capless weapons and a capless tank 'allergic to neuts'? Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.
The Worm is actually faster than most Tech 1 / Pirate / Navy Frigates, and the ones that have the Damage to beat also don't have the Tank to deal with it...
If you take for example the Slicer, a general kite fit can deal 165 Therm / EM DPS... which sure on most Caldari-based (Shield) ships that would be devastating but as it's possible to have a pure passive 12k EHP (without Links, with it's like 18k) that provides Omni-Resists of 70%+ - the reality is 165 DPS Vs. 300 DPS (340 with 'Aug' Hobs) that due to the Drone buff will be able to hit 4.2k m/s ... but that said usually you'd use Hornets / Warrior against a Slicer, which will break 6k / 8k m/s which means Snakes and OH are the only way to out-run them.
Put bluntly, your MWD will burn out long before you break the Worm; where it will absolutely own a Slicer without speed. Still there is always the Missiles, as it's now possible to Tank, Drone Damage and LML with a MWD (only requires 2 cheap implants CA-1 & CA-2) literally anything you throw at it will die Solo.
The Gila is the same way, sure you can say "Well a Shield Tank getting hit by Neuts and it's tank disappears" but the reality is you can buffer it like the Drake or simply go Resist Rigs and use Dual-ASB for massive burst Tank and a reasonable Passive.
Don't get me wrong stupid Fits will always die; and yes the Worm DID need more Damage Capabilities; as 150 was absolutely pathetic regardless of it's Tank - but the Gila was actually in a good place, just like the Rattlesnake was (and still is)
If you look at every other Pirate Frigate and Cruiser, they all have an Achilles Heel; but the Worm currently just doesn't; especially when you consider they are either there as Force Multipliers or are capable of hunting in Novice Complex in Low-Sec without equal; as they will either force ships like Garmurs (that are universally seen as OP because of their Speed, Point and Volley) off the field, or destroy them.
When you get them in groups of 2+ usually with a Fast Tackle (like a Garmur) which is becoming more and more commonplace, there is literally no counter to that; absolutely NONE. In-fact together they will put down close to 800 DPS combined applicable at up to 40km away, with actually incredibly good speed; especially when Linked.
I mean the MWD Worm with Links (no implant) will happily go 3.2k m/s, plus the Shield Resist Link you're looking at giving it an extra 5-6k EHP; making it absolutely devastating.
While you can say "Well they are 100mil to buy atm, then another 40-50mil to fit without Augs; so their Price for what they do is good" the only reason they are so much is because they're considerably better than every other Pirate Frigate; and realistically there is no reason for any of the Pirate Frigates to be as much as they are.
Realistically you can get each of them from their respective LP Store and sell them for 20-30mil (like Navy Frigates) and they'd still be worthwhile; the only reason their prices stay as high as they do are because of Supply and Demand because generally the main method of acquisition is Anoms - but basing balance against a completely arbitrary price is NOT how you balance.
...
Personally I think the Worm and Gila need a 250% and 350% Bonus respectively for Drone Damage and Durability
Now you can argue "but the Ishtar and other Drones boats are over-powered too" ... and I agree there /are/ certain Drone boats that do actually take the **** in terms of the DPS they can apply.
The Tristan, Comet, Algos, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue and Ishtar; are frankly completely out of balance since the Drone 'Rebalance' and do need to be carefully addressed.
Honestly for the Tristan and Comet, I'd say reduce the Drone by to only hold a Single Wing; the Algos should have a single Wing of Scouts with a small gun Damage Bonus, the Vexor, VNI and Ishtar need to have their Drone Damage reduced by approx. 15%
That would bring things far more in-line. |
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Squatdog
State Protectorate Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2014.08.01 15:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Quote:Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.
When they're buffer or ASB tanked.
Having your Inv. Field turned off on a brawler Gila can be solved by a single Nos.
Worm will hold down and brutally sodomise opposing light tackle before cap ever becomes an issue.
Quote:he worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite properly.
Warrior IIs will chew up most kiters that aren't a Garmur. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7427
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:First people say they are underpowered, now they say they are overpowered, and then tomorrow they are suddenly underpowered again...
That's because people are dumb and too stuck in their ways to see reality or opportunity. 'Medium Drones" have sucked for a long time compared to sentries and lights (for pvp) and sentires and heavies (for pve) so when These people saw 'medium drone bonuses' they were just sure that the Gila would suck.
Those of us who actually play the game while regarding EFT as a tool (rather than the Bible some folks think it is) knew how powerful the Gila (and Worm and to some extent the Rattlesnake too) was gonna be and said so.
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1275
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Posted - 2014.08.01 20:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either. This is a valid point but misplaced in this context. Sentinel is OP as a solo boat (which is why you don't fight it) but the ship's true role is in fleets where their power is properly applicable. It has a valid role even though annoying solo. It should not be nerfed.
Worm, on the other hand, is OP as solo without any broader meta justification. It doesn't bring anything to a fleet that can't be done better more cheaply. It's real strength is limited to solo play. It is OP. My favourite solution would be to lower drone EHP. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
276
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Posted - 2014.08.01 21:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Xequecal wrote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either. This is a valid point but misplaced in this context. Sentinel is OP as a solo boat (which is why you don't fight it) but the ship's true role is in fleets where their power is properly applicable. It has a valid role even though annoying solo. It should not be nerfed. Worm, on the other hand, is OP as solo without any broader meta justification. It doesn't bring anything to a fleet that can't be done better more cheaply. It's real strength is limited to solo play. It is OP. My favourite solution would be to lower drone EHP.
No!
What is everyone deal with having a line of pirate ships actually being pirate ships, you know scary and powerful at the same time, like all the OP-matar where from 2009-2012.
Now people are complaing about ship that nobody would have ever used in pvp, except goofswarm but they can use any boat and multiply by 12 billion and all of a sudden its all good and stuff.
Anyhow, I like my Gurista boat just fine the way they are right now, as king of the heavens not a joke that everyone else were making fun of in last daze Tengu / Drake / Hurricane Online, buy plex now at CCP an win EVE.
Last weeks most complains:
whaaaahaaa Interceptors haz intercepted maah, mommy halp maah whaaaahaaa...
Now take Worm / Gila and make them disappear!
You just learned how to get on the path of the better pilots in EVE, congratulations!
You are welcome! signature |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
163
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Posted - 2014.08.01 22:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Zappity wrote:Xequecal wrote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either. This is a valid point but misplaced in this context. Sentinel is OP as a solo boat (which is why you don't fight it) but the ship's true role is in fleets where their power is properly applicable. It has a valid role even though annoying solo. It should not be nerfed. Worm, on the other hand, is OP as solo without any broader meta justification. It doesn't bring anything to a fleet that can't be done better more cheaply. It's real strength is limited to solo play. It is OP. My favourite solution would be to lower drone EHP. No! What is everyone deal with having a line of pirate ships actually being pirate ships, you know scary and powerful at the same time, like all the OP-matar where from 2009-2012. Now people are complaing about ship that nobody would have ever used in pvp, except goofswarm but they can use any boat and multiply by 12 billion and all of a sudden its all good and stuff. Anyhow, I like my Gurista boat just fine the way they are right now, as king of the heavens not a joke that everyone else were making fun of in last daze Tengu / Drake / Hurricane Online, buy plex now at CCP an win EVE. Last weeks most complains: whaaaahaaa Interceptors haz intercepted maah, mommy halp maah whaaaahaaa... Now take Worm / Gila and make them disappear! You just learned how to get on the path of the better pilots in EVE, congratulations! You are welcome!
Does this qualify as a rant?
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elitatwo
Congregatio
276
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Posted - 2014.08.01 22:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
I do not respond to npcs signature |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1276
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Posted - 2014.08.01 23:41:00 -
[47] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Zappity wrote:Xequecal wrote:I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either. This is a valid point but misplaced in this context. Sentinel is OP as a solo boat (which is why you don't fight it) but the ship's true role is in fleets where their power is properly applicable. It has a valid role even though annoying solo. It should not be nerfed. Worm, on the other hand, is OP as solo without any broader meta justification. It doesn't bring anything to a fleet that can't be done better more cheaply. It's real strength is limited to solo play. It is OP. My favourite solution would be to lower drone EHP. No! What is everyone deal with having a line of pirate ships actually being pirate ships, you know scary and powerful at the same time, like all the OP-matar where from 2009-2012. Now people are complaing about ship that nobody would have ever used in pvp, except goofswarm but they can use any boat and multiply by 12 billion and all of a sudden its all good and stuff. Anyhow, I like my Gurista boat just fine the way they are right now, as king of the heavens not a joke that everyone else were making fun of in last daze Tengu / Drake / Hurricane Online, buy plex now at CCP an win EVE. Last weeks most complains: whaaaahaaa Interceptors haz intercepted maah, mommy halp maah whaaaahaaa... Now take Worm / Gila and make them disappear! You just learned how to get on the path of the better pilots in EVE, congratulations! You are welcome! I read this twice and still don't understand what you are trying to say. You replied to my post but didn't actually address what I said.
I have no problem with scary pirate ships. I fly them myself. Worm is still OP relative to the other pirate ships. And as for your pay to win rant, surely that is just another reason to nerf them. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
276
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Posted - 2014.08.02 06:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Zappity wrote: -snip- I read this twice and still don't understand what you are trying to say. You replied to my post but didn't actually address what I said.
I have no problem with scary pirate ships. I fly them myself. Worm is still OP relative to the other pirate ships. And as for your pay to win rant, surely that is just another reason to nerf them.
I don't follow. What do you mean with pay to win?
I was mocking our almost most beloved alliance and their style of 'playing'.
Then I recalled last weeks most complaints about Interceptors and how broken some folks felt they are.
My response to your suggestion to lower the Worms hp was a no, since I already posted a counter to a Worm, which is another Worm.
Then I included one of many solutions to get rid of an Interceptor gang on your own, which I a Worm or a Gila.
What is wrong about a ship that I can finally use for my solo style of flying?
Before the Worm was made an actual pirate boat, nobody wanted to fly them and now that they are good, people complain that they cannot beat them with an Ibis, yeah that's too bad, maybe you folks forget that pirate boats are supposed to be stronger than tech2 boats and shouldn't explode by the looks of an assault ship.
You know that there is no phantasy world on Tranquility where you only have 1v1's in faction warfare lowsec. There are other ships out there.
If you cannot shoot down one Worm with another frigate, fly a bigger boat or fly goo- I mean bring friends.
I know it escaped everyones minds since people like to be told what to do (fly) instead of thinking on their own but it has nothing to do with one ship.
If CCP comes with a nerf-hammer, the only thing you will have accomplished is making the Gurista Pirates given the Drake treatment.
IF I start ranting, it will sound very different. signature |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1278
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Posted - 2014.08.02 06:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
So a ship is not OP as long as it can be countered by itself? Then why not give the Worm 100k EHP and 1000 DPS? After all, it could still be countered by itself.
You have actually given a good functional definition of overpowered. A ship is OP if it is difficult to counter it with another type of ship. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
LT Alter
Ouroboros Research and Development
110
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Posted - 2014.08.02 08:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
I think they should restrict the drone control range on these ships. Perhaps down to 10km on the worm, then if it wants to get better drone range it has to sacrifice dps and cpu for a drone range module. Maybe they'll still be O/P but at least they would be easier to engage with longer ranged ships. No person with a brain can argue that the worm isn't the most powerful frigate in the game at the moment, but I wouldn't say it's too far from being balanced if the right nerfs are applied, I would really prefer the ship remain similar to it's current form if only given a few weaknesses to other ships. |
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
232
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Posted - 2014.08.02 09:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
LT Alter wrote: No person with a brain can argue that the worm isn't the most powerful frigate in the game at the moment
A garmur is still better, due to how it scales with links. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
276
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Posted - 2014.08.02 10:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
Zappity wrote:So a ship is not OP as long as it can be countered by itself? Then why not give the Worm 100k EHP and 1000 DPS? After all, it could still be countered by itself.
You have actually given a good functional definition of overpowered. A ship is OP if it is difficult to counter it with another type of ship.
Bring one or two plated destroyers, a Moa, Thorax, Vexor, Maller and the ships goes boom.
All of those cost less and will murder it.
It is not that the Worm doesn't have any weaknesses, she does. But I won't tell anyone, it is for everyone else to figure out. signature |
elitatwo
Congregatio
276
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Posted - 2014.08.02 10:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
afkalt wrote:LT Alter wrote: No person with a brain can argue that the worm isn't the most powerful frigate in the game at the moment A garmur is still better, due to how it scales with links.
Well that is true for other ships too, isn't it? signature |
Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2014.08.02 11:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
delete |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1328
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Posted - 2014.08.02 13:18:00 -
[55] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:[quote=Zappity] What is wrong about a ship that I can finally use for my solo style of flying?
Before the Worm was made an actual pirate boat, nobody wanted to fly them and now that they are good, people complain that they cannot beat them with an Ibis, yeah that's too bad, maybe you folks forget that pirate boats are supposed to be stronger than tech2 boats and shouldn't explode by the looks of an assault ship..
My complaint is not that you can't beat it with an ibis but you can't beat it with any sort of reasonable fit for a dramiel, daredevil, succubus or curor.
You see I offered one fit for the worm and said give me any fit for those other pirate frigates that would have a chance against it. Now normally you have about 3 options of where you are trying to fight. 1)in close 2) kiting edge of scram and 3) outside scram range kiting with a long point. Well that single worm fit wins against all reasonable fits for the other 4 pirate frigs at all those ranges. It does the same for all other regular faction ships. End result? Why even bother against a worm? There is no way to win.
Now really I don't mind that pirate frigates are powerful. In fact i like that. They are more expensive than tech 2 and much more expensive than destroyers. But the 4 pirate frigates are outclassed by the worm. So there is still an imbalance in that class.
I recommended giving the succubuse better agility and an extra high slot with a turret. CCP seems to want to make ships cookie cutter where they all only have a set number of slots except drone ships where they drop one slot. But this doesn't work very well. they should stop trying to do that and just look at what can be accomplished in the ships and balance accordingly.
CCP rise is an excellent pvper. I wonder if he can offer how he would fit one of the other 4 pirate ships so that he would have a chance agaisnt the worm fit posted or one with a passive extender. If not maybe its time to admit the pirate ships are not balanced. And give some more love to the 4 pirate ships I mentioned. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp The Bastion
330
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Posted - 2014.08.02 14:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.
However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.
They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in.
The Gila is allergic to neuts? As a passive shield drone / missile ship? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
867
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Posted - 2014.08.02 15:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
the dps on gila in particular is a little high Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
54
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Posted - 2014.08.02 17:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:the dps on gila in particular is a little high Not that high if you compare it to the Ishtar !
/sarcasm |
elitatwo
Congregatio
278
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Posted - 2014.08.03 13:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:the dps on Gila in particular is a little high
And a Serpentis boat with an inbuilt immobilizer and very angry neutron blasters only does 1200dps so its all good and stuff..
I like my Gurista ships and they suit my style of flying very well, well at least until I jump into Tama and my beautiful ship explodes by association or Ishtars or both. signature |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
630
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Posted - 2014.08.03 13:49:00 -
[60] - Quote
People have started moaning about the gila? Oh yes of course, they already decided to nerf the ishtar so something had to be next :D |
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