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Bikini Sunrise
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
ok,so I have done my research but still a little confused and want to make sure it does what I think its going to do before i spend all my "hard earned" ISK.
Lets say I am training to learn the "Retail" skill and for example it takes 24 hours to learn that skill. From what I have read if I increased my willpower and charisma points that skill will train faster,so less that 24 hours?
On that the Primary being willpower and secondary being charisma,does it matter which ones I increase?
When I look on the skill "retail",it says "2x multiplier" does that mean it will train twice as fast? Here is a piccy
http://s15.postimg.org/duu9n5v1n/image.png
Now,if I train cybernetics and get myself some attribute enhancers for those specific attributes will the timer go faster?
Oh and its my birthday today,ISK and other good greatly appreciated!
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8330
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Higher multipliers make skills take longer to train.
The smaller that number, the better.
And as for your stats, if I recall correctly, the primary stat gives about twice as much benefit towards training time as the secondary. But the answer is "yes" that having the respective stats will decrease your total time spent training. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Kelaian Stareine
Alpha Strategy The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Whatever skill is primary, you want that to be boosted with an implant first. Primary skill helps more with the train time than the secondary skill does. |
Otuk Andven
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bikini Sunrise wrote: Now,if I train cybernetics and get myself some attribute enhancers for those specific attributes will the timer go faster?
yes but not as much as you think, a set of +3 learning implants will reduce training to level 4 by several hours (5-8) but a long skill is still going to take a long time.
the training multiplier number is how longer it takes to train more advanced skilled based off the training time for the basic skills
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Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
782
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
I would recommend installing Evemon, taking a look at your training plan, then checking "optimise attributes" to see how much time you can save with a remap.
As to the questions: Yes, willpower/charisma will reduce the time Willpower has the most effect 2* multiplier = no, it means it goes slower, at the extreme end for example, Caldari Titan is a 16* multiplier Fluffy Bunny Pic! |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2315
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
As above, the primary skill is the one to boost. The equation for the calculation of minutes to training is along the lines of:
(Needed SP - Current SP) / (Primary Attribute + (Secondary Attribute / 2))
So the primary attribute contributes twice the benefit of the secondary attribute.
I'm no expert on the underlying equations though, so Tippia or someone may be along to point out errors. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Bikini Sunrise
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Otuk Andven wrote:Bikini Sunrise wrote: Now,if I train cybernetics and get myself some attribute enhancers for those specific attributes will the timer go faster?
yes but not as much as you think, a set of +3 learning implants will reduce training to level 4 by several hours (5-8) but a long skill is still going to take a long time. the training multiplier number is how longer it takes to train more advanced skilled based off the training time for the basic skills
Dam this game hurts my head,can't i just point and shoot
Ok so lets say I went ahead and bought this....
http://s28.postimg.org/f5t0e8oyl/image.png
or somthing close to this that has the +3 to willpower ,that would increase my training time I guess.I also have 2 remaps available so I guess I can also shift those around.
Sorry to be such a pain,just want to get it right.My main skills will be in trade with this character :) |
Bikini Sunrise
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:I would recommend installing Evemon, taking a look at your training plan, then checking "optimise attributes" to see how much time you can save with a remap.
As to the questions: Yes, willpower/charisma will reduce the time Willpower has the most effect 2* multiplier = no, it means it goes slower, at the extreme end for example, Caldari Titan is a 16* multiplier
ah I think I am getting this,I think...
So lets say we have the retail skill and I want to train it to level 5,would it work like this. Level 1 takes 20 minutes x1 (would take 20 minutes) Level 2 takes 40 Minutes x2 (would take 80 minutes because of the x2) Level 3 takes 60 minutes ...ect x3 Level 4 takes 80 minutes ...ect x4 Level 5 times 100 minutes ...ect x5 (this would take 5 times longer because its a higher lvl that the previous.So it would take 500 minutes =/ ? )
According to my retail training que it says "x 2" so if i increased the willpower attribute this time might be reduced?Jeez I hope I am on the right track here,might be to early for my brain to handle this ;)
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8330
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bikini Sunrise wrote:Dam this game hurts my head,can't i just point and shoot
You'll love Valkyrie. That is, if Facebook doesn't run the Oculus Rift into the ground first. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Bikini Sunrise
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Bikini Sunrise wrote:Dam this game hurts my head,can't i just point and shoot You'll love Valkyrie. That is, if Facebook doesn't run the Oculus Rift into the ground first.
it does look fun :) |
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Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
784
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bikini Sunrise wrote:Rhivre wrote:I would recommend installing Evemon, taking a look at your training plan, then checking "optimise attributes" to see how much time you can save with a remap.
As to the questions: Yes, willpower/charisma will reduce the time Willpower has the most effect 2* multiplier = no, it means it goes slower, at the extreme end for example, Caldari Titan is a 16* multiplier ah I think I am getting this,I think... So lets say we have the retail skill and I want to train it to level 5,would it work like this. Level 1 takes 20 minutes x1 (would take 20 minutes) Level 2 takes 40 Minutes x2 (would take 80 minutes because of the x2) Level 3 takes 60 minutes ...ect x3 Level 4 takes 80 minutes ...ect x4 Level 5 times 100 minutes ...ect x5 (this would take 5 times longer because its a higher lvl that the previous.So it would take 500 minutes =/ ? ) According to my retail training que it says "x 2" so if i increased the willpower attribute this time might be reduced?Jeez I hope I am on the right track here,might be to early for my brain to handle this ;)
No, the X2 applies to the skill, not the level.
Go here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6765 download Evemon, it really will make things much clearer :) Fluffy Bunny Pic! |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1316
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
There's no need to buy such high-grade implants for learning time. The pirate / faction implants are primarily for bonus effects, they just offer learning benefits as a side-benefit.
For +3 effects you want things such as Cybernetic Subprocessor - Basic, or for +4 you want Cybernetic Subprocessor - Standard. The basic costs 10m and the standard costs 20m.
If you have a character you only want to train for trading, you should train up Cybernetics IV.
Then buy and plug in the following: * Social Adaptation Chip - Standard * Memory Augmentation - Standard
Then immediately remap your character to have as many points as possible in Charisma, and then all the rest in Memory. Leave no optional points in anything else.
If you want to max contracting skills then you can also plug in a +3 willpower implant (Neural Boost - Basic)
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Bikini Sunrise
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
No, the X2 applies to the skill, not the level.
Go here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6765 download Evemon, it really will make things much clearer :)[/quote]
....
Thanks I just downloaded it I will have a good look at it :-) |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2317
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bikini Sunrise wrote:Rhivre wrote:I would recommend installing Evemon, taking a look at your training plan, then checking "optimise attributes" to see how much time you can save with a remap.
As to the questions: Yes, willpower/charisma will reduce the time Willpower has the most effect 2* multiplier = no, it means it goes slower, at the extreme end for example, Caldari Titan is a 16* multiplier ah I think I am getting this,I think... So lets say we have the retail skill and I want to train it to level 5,would it work like this. Level 1 takes 20 minutes x1 (would take 20 minutes) Level 2 takes 40 Minutes x2 (would take 80 minutes because of the x2) Level 3 takes 60 minutes ...ect x3 Level 4 takes 80 minutes ...ect x4 Level 5 times 100 minutes ...ect x5 (this would take 5 times longer because its a higher lvl that the previous.So it would take 500 minutes =/ ? ) According to my retail training que it says "x 2" so if i increased the willpower attribute this time might be reduced?Jeez I hope I am on the right track here,might be to early for my brain to handle this ;) No, not quite.
The way to understand the training multiplier is to look at different skills and see that the points needed to reach each level are affected by the training multiplier.
So a x1 multiplier:
level 1 - 250 level 2 - 1414 level 3 - 8000 level 4 - 45255 level 5 - 256000
With a x2 multiplier, those values double, so they become
level 1 - 500 level 2 - 2828 level 3 - 16000 level 4 - 90509 level 5 - 512000
The net result is that the multiplier for a skill makes the points needed to reach each level, higher - it takes longer.
How long it takes depends on your attributes.
The higher the primary and secondary attribute, the shorter the training time.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Bikini Sunrise
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 08:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:There's no need to buy such high-grade implants for learning time. The pirate / faction implants are primarily for bonus effects, they just offer learning benefits as a side-benefit.
For +3 effects you want things such as Cybernetic Subprocessor - Basic, or for +4 you want Cybernetic Subprocessor - Standard. The basic costs 10m and the standard costs 20m.
If you have a character you only want to train for trading, you should train up Cybernetics IV.
Then buy and plug in the following: * Social Adaptation Chip - Standard * Memory Augmentation - Standard
Then immediately remap your character to have as many points as possible in Charisma, and then all the rest in Memory. Leave no optional points in anything else.
If you want to max contracting skills then you can also plug in a +3 willpower implant (Neural Boost - Basic)
yeah I will probably buy the cheapest ones like you said,that one was just an example :-) I will train cybernetics to IV now and come back later and bug everyone some more :)
Thanks for the info guys and gurls I will play with evemon later tonight,but I think I get the hang of this :-) *crosses fingers* |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2317
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 08:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Reading the wiki might help:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skill_training
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2087
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 08:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Edit: I was too slow ^ hehe. Still: ---
As per https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skill_training:
How high your relevant attributes for a skill are is what affects how fast you gain SP: Points per minute = (primary attribute + secondary attribute/2)
The skill multiplier affects how much SP you need:
x1 Skills need the following amount of skill points level 1 - 250 level 2 - 1415 level 3 - 8000 level 4 - 45255 level 5 - 256000
x2 skills need that times 2, x5 skills times 5 and so on. |
Ton'Ka Katsu
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2014.07.31 08:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
posting in a stealth "ccp lower training times" thread |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
697
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Posted - 2014.07.31 10:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Attributes only indirectly affect how long it takes to train a skill. What they directly affect is your sp/hr. An optimized sp/hr should be above 2500 easily assuming you are going for a specific skill or skills. Though depending on your plan, it might make sense to train some skills at a lower efficiency if the overall sp/hr is relatively optimized. All training time is is:
SP Left in the skill block / (sp/hr)
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1695
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Posted - 2014.07.31 10:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lol you're fun, you have a cool name and it's (supposedly) your birthday. I'll send you a gift when I log on.
EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2448
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Posted - 2014.07.31 11:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote: How high your relevant attributes for a skill are is what affects how fast you gain SP: Points per minute = (primary attribute + secondary attribute/2)
Bear in mind that most everything counts in SP / hour .... so it's just easier to do SP_Gain = (Primary * 60) + (Secondary * 30). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
537
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Posted - 2014.07.31 11:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
target. http://residentoutlaw.tumblr.com - How to stop Freighters from getting bumped. Screaming Head in a Box is recruiting forum warriors! --áhttp://i.imgur.com/oEkByYX.jpg
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1046
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Posted - 2014.07.31 11:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Always bear in mind that EVE is not "mini-SP game online" . It would take nearly 20 years to even come close to learning all current skills. If you are intending to play EVE for a fair while get use to waiting for weeks/months before things train. If you just want huge SP and lack patience you can get that quicker by buying a character on the character bazaar ready trained.
General points:
Before investing too heavily in implants get a solid plan for the first 12 months (and "I want a big battleship to run lvl 4s and play for free" does not count as a skill plan) .
Do not build a "jack of all trades" character. Focus. Use alt characters (you have two free ones on your account) to do other random stuff not your main.
Remember in EVE its player knowledge and what friends you make that count the most not SP.
Also remember skills only need two abilities. If you limit your training to particular areas you can get away with two good implants (say INT and Perception) and some lesser ones and add more later.
ADVANTAGES OF EXPENSIVE ATTRIBUTE IMPLANTS - you train quicker so if your impatient get access to stuff quicker - if you are plexing it currently costs almost 30 mill a day to plex an account, so you only need to save 3 days training to pay for a 100 mill implant
DISADVANTAGES OF EXPENSIVE ATTRIBUTE IMPLANTS - they are expensive and take up ISK that may be better early on used for ships or trading capital - if your implants are too shiney and you die there is a risk you may get "watchlisted" and stalked - expensive implants will make you nervous of PvP or entering losec/nullsec - in the end over a longish period of training - who cares you train fast enough |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
2733
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Posted - 2014.07.31 15:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bikini Sunrise wrote:Dam this game hurts my head,can't i just point and shoot
Yes you can. My attributes are set and I haven't changed them since my 2nd month in game. All I want to do is pew things, so I have percep and willpower weighted the most and none in Charisma. I use +4 learning implants in my hisec clone and an empty pod in nullsec. It takes me longer to train things than it would for someone with a more focused plan. However the game isn't a race. I'm not competing against anyone else in Skillpoint Online. And while they are buried in Evemon making skill plans and obsessing over remaps, I'm in space pewing things.
If we're not supposed to shoot pods in hisec, why are they filled with meat? |
Nikolai Lachance
Happy Wheels Logistics
136
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Posted - 2014.07.31 17:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
More fun math...
The number of skillpoints required for a particular level of a skill is equal to the square root of 32 multiplied by the skillpoints required by the previous level. That's approximately 5.657. That means each level of a skill takes 4.657 times longer to train than the last one, assuming your attributes stay the same.
Some fun trivia... the highest ranked skill that one can acquire in the game are the various Titan skills at x16. These take a good long time to train. The highest ranked skill in the database is Omnipotent at x42, but this skill cannot be acquired by players. It's a GM skill which requires the Polaris skill. The Polaris skill requires the Polaris skill, so no one can actually get it without having their character edited. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1048
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Posted - 2014.07.31 18:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote: However the game isn't a race. I'm not competing against anyone else in Skillpoint Online. And while they are buried in Evemon making skill plans and obsessing over remaps, I'm in space pewing things.
ah ... but they occassionally emerge from Evemon to demand SP refunds on the forums for the 3 days training they lost now that widgets no longer need level V knick-knaack as a prerequisite .... or complain that it is unfair they cannot catch up in SP to 10 year vets by playing 24/7 and spending lots of real cash :D
But you have a good point, understanding skills and implants is of course a good thing BUT if it gets to SP obsession it becomes detrimental to enjoying the game.
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
768
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Posted - 2014.07.31 19:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
EVEMON is a critical component of EVE Offline. Not today spaghetti. |
Hiply Rustic
A Private Space Venture
109
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Posted - 2014.08.01 02:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Bikini Sunrise wrote:Dam this game hurts my head,can't i just point and shoot You'll love Valkyrie. That is, if Facebook doesn't run the Oculus Rift into the ground first.
They will. I understand the Oculus guys selling...hell who wouldn't? I would rather have seen a different buyer, one who was committed to the peripherals or display spaces. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the stong-willied need apply.
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1407
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Posted - 2014.08.01 11:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote: However the game isn't a race. I'm not competing against anyone else in Skillpoint Online. And while they are buried in Evemon making skill plans and obsessing over remaps, I'm in space pewing things.
ah ... but they occassionally emerge from Evemon to demand SP refunds on the forums for the 3 days training they lost now that widgets no longer need level V knick-knaack as a prerequisite .... or complain that it is unfair they cannot catch up in SP to 10 year vets by playing 24/7 and spending lots of real cash :D But you have a good point, understanding skills and implants is of course a good thing BUT if it gets to SP obsession it becomes detrimental to enjoying the game.
You guys are both right. I see it as a balancing act. I pew a lot, so my pod is at risk. I gauge the appropriate implant level and remap by experience and the skills I intend to train the next year. That being said, I have played for quite a while and already have a ton of prereqs, allowing me to properly focus. I would say beginners are better off focussing on mechanics instead of their SP/hr. You will require skills all over the place to be effective in any kind of ship anyway, I'd even recommend a balanced remap for your first 6 months.
I disgree somewhat with the "jack-of-all-trades" comment, at least where skills related to attributes are concerned in your first few months. I think you should put a slight of SP in pretty much everything you want to try, excluding only what doesn't appeal to you at all. The game is broad as well as it is deep.
I do agree you should at some point focus training to become really good in your favourite field. If that takes weeks to decide that's great, if it takes a year that's also fine. Example: I have trained some mission-related skills at the beginning of my Eve carreer. While I no longer run missions for income, these skills still help when obtaining the LP for a specific item I like to fit on a certain PVP ship nowadays. Real life example: I work in IT but I know how to make a specific local delicacy from a pig's head. Is that relevant? No. Does that help me when a solar flare kills all the worlds electronics? Highly likely. |
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