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Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 15:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
I love the idea of covert operations. I think this part of the game could use more attention. I'm curious about the possibility of POS cloaking.
A POS module that does the following:
Cloaks all POS structures.
Limitations:
Any ship that gets within 2000m (is it 2000m?) will cause the cloak to break.
The POS shields can not be active at the same time.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3412
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Posted - 2014.08.01 15:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
why? "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
131
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Posted - 2014.08.01 15:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
To flesh out more diverse ways of playing and enrich the EVE experience. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4333
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 16:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Check this older thread out:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2111015#post2111015
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2851
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Posted - 2014.08.01 16:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:To flesh out more diverse ways of playing and enrich the EVE experience.
How would it do that in a way that existing structures wouldn't? |
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
64
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Posted - 2014.08.01 16:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cloaking module for pos would be cool. As long as nothing inside can function while its cloaked and the cloak uses up double the fuel that the pos would normally use. |
Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
132
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Posted - 2014.08.01 17:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:Cloaking module for pos would be cool. As long as nothing inside can function while its cloaked and the cloak uses up double the fuel that the pos would normally use.
Then what would be the point?
I'd say to run it, it would use both the fuel blocks and strontium. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3425
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Posted - 2014.08.01 17:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Altirius Saldiaro wrote:Cloaking module for pos would be cool. As long as nothing inside can function while its cloaked and the cloak uses up double the fuel that the pos would normally use. Then what would be the point? I'd say to run it, it would use both the fuel blocks and strontium. well that's how cloaking balance works dude. "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
132
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 17:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
That's not balance, that's uselessness.
Balance is trading one kind of defense (shields) for another (cloak). With the only difference being that a POS with shields can be found and attacked, while a cloaked POS can't (as easily).
To balance that you have the following:
A POS with shields can attack hostiles but a cloaked POS can not unless decloaked. Once decloaked, without shields, the POS is completely vulnerable.
While the POS functions while cloaked (manufacturing, reactions, etc.) it has to de-cloak when players are interacting with it. Thus it can be scanned down at this point.
It should go without saying that the limitation in place to balance cloaking on a ship doesn't fit when applied to a POS. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3426
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything. "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
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Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
132
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything.
No you're not. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2851
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything. No you're not.
Tell us how, exactly, a POS is vulnerable if it's cloaked? |
Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
134
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything. No you're not. Tell us how, exactly, a POS is vulnerable if it's cloaked?
The device uses strontium in addition to regular fuel block use.
With either runs out, it deactivates. So someone would have to interact with the POS sooner or later. The POS is decloaked when someone is interacting with it. Thus vulnerable. While interacting with it, someone finds it (and you).
It's also possible for someone to find it accidentally. Perhaps while finding a spot to set up their own. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4333
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 18:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything. No you're not. Tell us how, exactly, a POS is vulnerable if it's cloaked? Nothing of value a POS can do exists as more than potential until a player is able to interact with it. You can't sell whatever the POS is making till you move it from the POS.
By interacting with it, the POS is exposed to detection. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Shahai Shintaro
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
58
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Umm... Let's say your pos is cloaked. I fly to the moon see nothing there and decide I want a pos there. I drop my stick and try to anchor it. What happens? Do i seriously have to grab an interceptor and fly loops around the planet till I happen to decloak you? |
Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
134
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
No, you could scout the moon. Keep an eye on it and sooner or later you'll catch a player at the POS. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2851
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything. No you're not. Tell us how, exactly, a POS is vulnerable if it's cloaked? The device uses strontium in addition to regular fuel block use. With either runs out, it deactivates. So someone would have to interact with the POS sooner or later. The POS is decloaked when someone is interacting with it. Thus vulnerable. While interacting with it, someone finds it (and you). It's also possible for someone to find it accidentally. Perhaps while finding a spot to set up their own.
So unless I'm on, in system and with probes out, in the few minutes it takes you to fuel the thing and bug out, it's invulnerable and can happily research or react away in complete safety?
And you just confirmed that yes, Shahai would indeed have to fly loops around in an interceptor until she found your tower if it didn't happen to be in the few minutes a week/month that you were at the thing. |
Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
134
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 19:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's easy enough to determine if one is anchored around a particular moon or not.
360 deg scan at a range that only covers the moon.
Probes ready to be launched with a scan preset already set up.
The moment it shows I could have it scanned down and be warping to it in seconds.
Perhaps a reactivation delay would help. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
150
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Posted - 2014.08.01 19:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
While I love cloaking and I like POSes, I don't think it would fair to combine them with the current game mechanics - especially if you allow operation of ship modules and anchored modules while the POS is cloaked. It would be one of those banned from high sec modules.
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2851
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Posted - 2014.08.01 19:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:It's easy enough to determine if one is anchored around a particular moon or not.
360 deg scan at a range that only covers the moon.
Probes ready to be launched with a scan preset already set up.
The moment it shows I could have it scanned down and be warping to it in seconds.
Perhaps a reactivation delay would help.
None of which mean a thing if whoever is looking for you is not in system at exactly the same time that you happen to be using the POS, paying attention and ready to probe you out.
Which is going to be a few minutes a week at most. So they're, essentially, going to have to figure out which moon you're set up on and decloak your tower the hard way unless they get INCREDIBLY lucky.
While you are free to generate a silly amount of money in a totally risk free manner. |
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Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
135
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Posted - 2014.08.01 19:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:It's easy enough to determine if one is anchored around a particular moon or not.
360 deg scan at a range that only covers the moon.
Probes ready to be launched with a scan preset already set up.
The moment it shows I could have it scanned down and be warping to it in seconds.
Perhaps a reactivation delay would help. None of which mean a thing if whoever is looking for you is not in system at exactly the same time that you happen to be using the POS, paying attention and ready to probe you out. Which is going to be a few minutes a week at most. So they're, essentially, going to have to figure out which moon you're set up on and decloak your tower the hard way unless they get INCREDIBLY lucky. While you are free to generate a silly amount of money in a totally risk free manner.
And such is what makes it comparable to a POS with shields up and in reinforced mode. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2851
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 19:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:It's easy enough to determine if one is anchored around a particular moon or not.
360 deg scan at a range that only covers the moon.
Probes ready to be launched with a scan preset already set up.
The moment it shows I could have it scanned down and be warping to it in seconds.
Perhaps a reactivation delay would help. None of which mean a thing if whoever is looking for you is not in system at exactly the same time that you happen to be using the POS, paying attention and ready to probe you out. Which is going to be a few minutes a week at most. So they're, essentially, going to have to figure out which moon you're set up on and decloak your tower the hard way unless they get INCREDIBLY lucky. While you are free to generate a silly amount of money in a totally risk free manner. And such is what makes it comparable to a POS with shields up and in reinforced mode.
No, it really doesn't. A reinforced POS has a honking great timer on it, telling me exactly when I can come back with dreads and kill it with fire. It also doesn't make you any money while it's in RF.
An invisible POS that I cannot find or shoot, that generates silly amounts of money for you with no risk whatsoever is nothing like a pos that is making no money for anyone and is counting down to it's potential destruction. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
150
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 19:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:It's easy enough to determine if one is anchored around a particular moon or not.
360 deg scan at a range that only covers the moon.
Probes ready to be launched with a scan preset already set up.
The moment it shows I could have it scanned down and be warping to it in seconds.
Perhaps a reactivation delay would help. None of which mean a thing if whoever is looking for you is not in system at exactly the same time that you happen to be using the POS, paying attention and ready to probe you out. Which is going to be a few minutes a week at most. So they're, essentially, going to have to figure out which moon you're set up on and decloak your tower the hard way unless they get INCREDIBLY lucky. While you are free to generate a silly amount of money in a totally risk free manner. And such is what makes it comparable to a POS with shields up and in reinforced mode.
All modules are de-activated on a reinforced POS.
edit: oh, and yeah, you can see where it is. ;) |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
250
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 00:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:I love the idea of covert operations. I think this part of the game could use more attention. I'm curious about the possibility of POS cloaking.
A POS module that does the following:
Cloaks all POS structures.
Limitations:
Any ship that gets within 2000m (is it 2000m?) will cause the cloak to break.
The POS shields can not be active at the same time.
You get this idea from Stargate Atlantis? |
Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
136
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 01:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
nope, don't watch it. Don't watch much TV at all actually. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4333
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 03:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:nope, don't watch it. Don't watch much TV at all actually.
It was just the thought of extending the existing concept.
You have blockade runners that can use the covert ops cloak You have covert ops frigates You have recon ships that use the covert ops cloak You have black ops battleships
Just thought it'd be pretty cool to have a base of operations (like a POS) that fit the theme. Give it a different role from a traditional POS then.
No manufacturing, or moon resource grabbing. No moon orbit either.
Purely tactical, hidden military base designed to support covert shipping exclusively. In fact, I think it might make sense if it fit the theme, of only being compatible with covops capable vessels and black ops.
It never decloaks for normal use, but only that short list of ships can ever use it without causing it's cloak to be disrupted and visible to scanning. (A 15 minute recalibration would be needed before it auto-restored it's cloak)
How would that work out? Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
136
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 04:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:nope, don't watch it. Don't watch much TV at all actually.
It was just the thought of extending the existing concept.
You have blockade runners that can use the covert ops cloak You have covert ops frigates You have recon ships that use the covert ops cloak You have black ops battleships
Just thought it'd be pretty cool to have a base of operations (like a POS) that fit the theme. Give it a different role from a traditional POS then. No manufacturing, or moon resource grabbing. No moon orbit either. Purely tactical, hidden military base designed to support covert shipping exclusively. In fact, I think it might make sense if it fit the theme, of only being compatible with covops capable vessels and black ops. It never decloaks for normal use, but only that short list of ships can ever use it without causing it's cloak to be disrupted and visible to scanning. (A 15 minute recalibration would be needed before it auto-restored it's cloak) How would that work out?
I like that thought. Maybe a kind of covert ops capital? |
Mad'Ness
Voyagers Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 04:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:nope, don't watch it. Don't watch much TV at all actually.
It was just the thought of extending the existing concept.
You have blockade runners that can use the covert ops cloak You have covert ops frigates You have recon ships that use the covert ops cloak You have black ops battleships
Just thought it'd be pretty cool to have a base of operations (like a POS) that fit the theme. Give it a different role from a traditional POS then. No manufacturing, or moon resource grabbing. No moon orbit either. Purely tactical, hidden military base designed to support covert shipping exclusively. In fact, I think it might make sense if it fit the theme, of only being compatible with covops capable vessels and black ops. It never decloaks for normal use, but only that short list of ships can ever use it without causing it's cloak to be disrupted and visible to scanning. (A 15 minute recalibration would be needed before it auto-restored it's cloak) How would that work out? I like that thought. Maybe a kind of covert ops capital?
What is the problem of using existing carriers with cloacking device fitted on them. If you do everything in 0 local it is exactly what you are looking for. Another option are mobile depo's. But you have to be more patient if somebody desides to camp it for some time to kill you. Local checks once again.
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4333
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Posted - 2014.08.02 05:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mad'Ness wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:I like that thought. Maybe a kind of covert ops capital? What is the problem of using existing carriers with cloacking device fitted on them. If you do everything in 0 local it is exactly what you are looking for. Another option are mobile depo's. But you have to be more patient if somebody desides to camp it for some time to kill you. Local checks once again. Ok, I can field this one...
The point of a POS in this context, has two points of value: 1. It doesn't log out. 2. It was meant for cloaked operation, not just an expensive improvised version.
I am thinking this is less than a full sized POS, but more than a simple mobile depot. (Multiple character use, more storage space, possible frigate sized ship storage array) The 30 day expiry if abandoned makes sense too, I feel.
The fuel it uses doesn't power a shield, but the cloak itself. I think it should hold enough to last as long as a small tower by comparison.
I think that while cloaked, it should not appear on either scans or the overview, but should be visible to normal vision if close enough to be seen. Don't lose that bookmark, or you may lose your secret stash. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Valkin Mordirc
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2014.08.02 05:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
A Traditional POS would be hella OP if you could cloak it. You say the only time it would be vulnerable is when the stock of fuel needs to capped off. So let run this off on how I would go about running a covert POS.
1. Find a system worth placing the POS, 2. Watch the local of system, checking which times the area is most active, and least active, 3. Figure out how much fuel I can run before the POS runs out and decloaks. Then using that timing, 3a, Build POS, and give it fuel when it will run out of fuel or come close to running out of fuel during the Local system most inactive time 4.???? I honestly don't know anything about industry ???? 5. Profit without actually risking the POS.
Unlike the traditional POS, which has a freakin huge ass blue as orb floating around it with cannon's ECM arrays and so forth, no one can see it, and as such no will be bothered to finding it.
Cloaks are kinda in a "IT'S OP, NOT IT'S NOT OP "state anyways no need to add more fuel to fire as is. Psychotic Monk for CSM9 |
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