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Chuk Ormand
El Diablo De Verde Mech Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.08.02 01:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've had a small POS pre-Crius and had 3 research labs in it. Post Crius I made some changes to it and am VERY pleased!!
Small Caldari Control Tower
1 - Mobile Laboratory for ME and TE research
1- Advanced Laboratory for copy and invention
1 - Ammunition Assembly Array
1- Drone Assembly Array
8 - Cruise Missile Batteries
Everything is online and fully operational. Before I had to offline 3 missile batteries to use all three labs. Now two labs provide unlimited slots and i can manufacture ammo and drones. I have 2 main accounts and all 4 alts are finally trained for research, invention and advanced mass production. I'm in a system without indy installations so install costs are minimal. I am determined to make Crius work for me!!! -chuk |
Edman Torillio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.08.02 02:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Chuk Ormand wrote:I've had a small POS pre-Crius and had 3 research labs in it. Post Crius I made some changes to it and am VERY pleased!!
Small Caldari Control Tower
1 - Mobile Laboratory for ME and TE research
1- Advanced Laboratory for copy and invention
1 - Ammunition Assembly Array
1- Drone Assembly Array
8 - Cruise Missile Batteries
Everything is online and fully operational. Before I had to offline 3 missile batteries to use all three labs. Now two labs provide unlimited slots and i can manufacture ammo and drones. I have 2 main accounts and all 4 alts are finally trained for research, invention and advanced mass production. I'm in a system without indy installations so install costs are minimal. I am determined to make Crius work for me!!! -chuk
I am not sure if you are aware of this, though in the case of a small pos it hardly matters, but the missile defense batteries you have chosen require CPU to operate. Once your POS shield reaches 25% it goes into reinforced mode (if you have stront in the POS) and the launchers become useless. My recommendation, fit jammers or guns.
Also just taking into account that you are using cruise missile batteries because you do not know any better; a piece of friendly advice, I would avoid putting expensive BPO's in the labs, as they are but nothing floating targets ( especially in a small pos ).
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
353
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Posted - 2014.08.02 03:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Or maybe it's in high sec and you are completely wrong.
Cruise are great on small POS that you will just pull down during wars. They land some DPS on anything around for the most part. The shield at 25% factor never comes into effect. Thanks Concord. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4004
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Posted - 2014.08.02 18:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Or maybe it's in high sec and you are completely wrong.
Cruise are great on small POS that you will just pull down during wars. They land some DPS on anything around for the most part. The shield at 25% factor never comes into effect. Thanks Concord. A single battleship can tank as many missile batteries that you can fit on large tower.
Look at the rate of fire. Look at the damage multiplier. Now look at turrets. |
Edman Torillio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.08.03 01:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Or maybe it's in high sec and you are completely wrong.
Cruise are great on small POS that you will just pull down during wars. They land some DPS on anything around for the most part. The shield at 25% factor never comes into effect. Thanks Concord.
Agreed, in high sec, on a small pos that is intended to be pulled down before a wardec has a chance to do any damage it does not matter the type of defenses installed. However following this same logic, why even put up defenses if t his is the intention in the first place?
Do not mistakenly believe my reply to the OP's post as condescending or attempting to ridicule him for what he is proud to have accomplished. All I was trying to attempt was offer friendly advice on his POS fitting, and some advice on how to limit his risk.
At further risk of derailing this thread, I believe my original advise is still accurate and warranted.
Fly safe ( or dangerous ) however you prefer. |
Chuk Ormand
El Diablo De Verde Mech Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.08.03 01:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
No offense taken at all. I make it no secret that i don't know that much about defense. I'm an indy player and i need to learn that stuff too. My corp is seldom war dec'd and i have always known my missiles wont stop anyone who really wants my POS. Now that Crius requires bpo's be in the POS i wouldn't have any expensive ones in it. The main point of my post was that a small POS can do so much more post Crius. Thanks all. -chuk |
Saleani Tsolyani
Bey Su
48
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Posted - 2014.08.03 05:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Chuk Ormand wrote:8 - Cruise Missile Batteries Is there anything in high sec that you can actually hit with those batteries? |
Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
526
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Posted - 2014.08.03 10:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bad POS design is bad.
Either you plan on tearing it down on wardec, in which case it needs zero defense OR you need at least a medium, potentially a large one with proper defenses (not lolmissilebatteries that go offline when it goes reinforced).
Problem with a tower that you plan on tearing down on wardec is that you have to keep your build jobs short (<24h) or you will end up losing stuff when you have to cancel the jobs to rescue your blueprints before taking it down.
So far there doesn't seem to be any large number of tower-bashing going on in highsec but sooner or later someone finds enough juicy-looking industrial towers with lots of manufacturing / research going on and will see what they contain (wardec). Few of those will actually try to defend it and one day we'll get a nice battle report how someone broke a multi-billion ISK pinata POS in highsec. Then the fun begins |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
270
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Posted - 2014.08.03 11:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Good luck.
As noted please get rid of the missile batteries ASAP. They are just broadcasting to everyone "I do not know what I'm doing with POS" and as such might attract some unwanted attention.
Use guns or ewar or .. well it does not matter really for a small tower as one semiafk BS can reinforce it perhaps even couple hardeners. I personally would suggest throwing 1-2 dampeners and 1-2 ECM in there and fill the rest of the grid with small guns. Just for show, if you get waredecced you would probably want to take the tower down anyway. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
222
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Posted - 2014.08.03 12:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Chuk Ormand wrote:I've had a small POS pre-Crius and had 3 research labs in it. Post Crius I made some changes to it and am VERY pleased!!
Small Caldari Control Tower
1 - Mobile Laboratory for ME and TE research
1- Advanced Laboratory for copy and invention
1 - Ammunition Assembly Array
1- Drone Assembly Array
8 - Cruise Missile Batteries
Everything is online and fully operational. Before I had to offline 3 missile batteries to use all three labs. Now two labs provide unlimited slots and i can manufacture ammo and drones. I have 2 main accounts and all 4 alts are finally trained for research, invention and advanced mass production. I'm in a system without indy installations so install costs are minimal. I am determined to make Crius work for me!!! -chuk
Nice, but Cruise Missile Batteries, as others have mentioned, are pretty bad.
If you want to seriously have a POS-defense, replace them with either Small Pulselaser Batteries (good range + tracking), Small Autocannon Batteries (variable damage, good tracking, **** range) or a mixture of both.
If you want to get fancy, you can even experiment with rail guns or artillery, even small batteries have incredible range. And if you really want the range CMBs can give you, look up the medium long range gun batteries. They go up to the hardcoded maximum already. (You can only target ships up to 250km, so your POS-defense never needs more than that as absolute maximum to get all ships capable of attacking the POS.) |
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
4
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Posted - 2014.08.03 12:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dear OP:
Please tell me you are using a forum alt. In either case i shall start searching the stars for your tower.
To be blunt, it is half witted towers like the one you seem to have put up that i specifically look for.
I recently just liberated ~14b from a similar tower.
PS: Large towers are the best bet, unless you plan to do only <1 day jobs and log in every single day to make sure you have not been dec'd. I personally will never try to hit a large HS tower EVER unless i have 10+ ppl helping shoot it. And even then that will strain the attention span of most pilots.
PSS: There is a new HS POS defense meta, learn it, use it, be safe(er). |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1252
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Posted - 2014.08.03 14:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Chuk Ormand wrote:I've had a small POS pre-Crius and had 3 research labs in it. Post Crius I made some changes to it and am VERY pleased!!
8 - Cruise Missile Batteries
Everything is online and fully operational. Before I had to offline 3 missile batteries to use all three labs. Now two labs provide unlimited slots and i can manufacture ammo and drones. I have 2 main accounts and all 4 alts are finally trained for research, invention and advanced mass production. I'm in a system without indy installations so install costs are minimal. I am determined to make Crius work for me!!! -chuk
Your eight cruise batteries do 192 DPS (I think). Good luck. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
270
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Posted - 2014.08.03 18:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote: They go up to the hardcoded maximum already. (You can only target ships up to 250km, so your POS-defense never needs more than that as absolute maximum to get all ships capable of attacking the POS.)
Unless something has changed over the past 5 or so years with POS guns (which seems unlikely given CCP reluctance to touch the POS code with 12 feet pole) they cheat when controlled by a gunner. I have seen them pop pods at 600 km a while ago. Have not done it myself recently though so take it with a grain of salt ofc.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
226
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Posted - 2014.08.03 18:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
There are two schools of thought with defenses for a small hisec POS:
The first is to anchor some defensive modules in an attempt to discourage those who would wardec you. This is great at stopping small corps looking for an easy gank, but is wholly ineffective at stopping corps with 10+ dedicated battleship pilots from taking down your POS.
The second is to rely on 2-ish shield hardeners and your ability to tear down your tower quickly in the event of a wardec. This approach realizes that a force of dedicated pilots will reinforce a small POS in short order, so the best defense is delay and retreat.
Either way, you don't want to running valuable or long duration jobs in a small hisec POS.
I can tell you that the first method will defend against the right group of attackers, and that the second method will fail if the POS owner underestimates the attacking force. Small groups of stealth bombers afterburning in a 17km orbit can do...interesting things to a small POS.... Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Dread Nanana
Action Super Dupper Test Corp
26
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Posted - 2014.08.03 18:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote: I can tell you that the first method will defend against the right group of attackers, and that the second method will fail if the POS owner underestimates the attacking force. Small groups of stealth bombers afterburning in a 17km orbit can do...interesting things to a small POS....
Those are easily defeated with some small faction autocannons batteries and small faction arties.. yes, even on a small POS.
Battleships+logistics, those require something larger than a small POS for defence though.
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Chuk Ormand
El Diablo De Verde Mech Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thanks for the education on how NOT to defend a small POS. This POS has been around for a year before Crius. I'm disappointed my corp mates didn't show me the errors of my ways. Maybe the pulse lasers and/or auto cannons might be a better choice.
It used to be that owning your own POS gave one a feeling of accomplishment. Now after Crius anyone can have one almost anywhere. The only reason i was keeping it online was because it reminded me of my EVE journey. Silly sentimental me..............if i'm gonna worry all the time now about someone seeking it out and blowing it up i might as well just station research and build. Maybe i could put a roadhouse in it and get all my EVE buddies drunk??????? -chuk
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Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
849
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Chuk Ormand wrote:Thanks for the education on how NOT to defend a small POS. This POS has been around for a year before Crius. I'm disappointed my corp mates didn't show me the errors of my ways. Maybe the pulse lasers and/or auto cannons might be a better choice.
It used to be that owning your own POS gave one a feeling of accomplishment. Now after Crius anyone can have one almost anywhere. The only reason i was keeping it online was because it reminded me of my EVE journey. Silly sentimental me..............if i'm gonna worry all the time now about someone seeking it out and blowing it up i might as well just station research and build. Maybe i could put a roadhouse in it and get all my EVE buddies drunk??????? -chuk
Lasers. No ammo means that a frigate wont speed tank until the guns/launchers are depleted, allowing bugger guns to bear down with impunity.
And if you are in highsec there is no point in weapons at all unless you are war. http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
222
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 20:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:There are two schools of thought with defenses for a small hisec POS:
The first is to anchor some defensive modules in an attempt to discourage those who would wardec you. This is great at stopping small corps looking for an easy gank, but is wholly ineffective at stopping corps with 10+ dedicated battleship pilots from taking down your POS.
The second is to rely on 2-ish shield hardeners and your ability to tear down your tower quickly in the event of a wardec. This approach realizes that a force of dedicated pilots will reinforce a small POS in short order, so the best defense is delay and retreat.
Either way, you don't want to running valuable or long duration jobs in a small hisec POS.
I can tell you that the first method will defend against the right group of attackers, and that the second method will fail if the POS owner underestimates the attacking force. Small groups of stealth bombers afterburning in a 17km orbit can do...interesting things to a small POS....
The counter to that would be controlling stasis towers and warp scramblers to catch one after the other, until the bombers give up or none are left. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
226
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 00:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dread Nanana wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote: I can tell you that the first method will defend against the right group of attackers, and that the second method will fail if the POS owner underestimates the attacking force. Small groups of stealth bombers afterburning in a 17km orbit can do...interesting things to a small POS....
Those are easily defeated with some small faction autocannons batteries and small faction arties.. yes, even on a small POS. Battleships+logistics, those require something larger than a small POS for defence though. Without stasis webs, any POS gun against an afterburning frigate hugging a small POS's force field is useless, even AC batteries. I didn't believe the math at first, but then I tried it ans was amazed. The low shield radius definitely works against the small POS there.
Agreed re: BS + logi fleets, pretty much all a small POS, even a manned one, can do against that is slow them down.
Owen Levanth wrote: The counter to that would be controlling stasis towers and warp scramblers to catch one after the other, until the bombers give up or none are left.
Bingo. (Emphasis added) This is why I say if you're going to add guns, don't only add guns. Always do a mix. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 01:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Your eight cruise batteries do 192 DPS (I think). Good luck. I tanked a cruise missile tower once...with an active shield tank....that i never actually activated....
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
271
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Posted - 2014.08.04 09:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote: Lasers. No ammo means that a frigate wont speed tank until the guns/launchers are depleted, allowing bugger guns to bear down with impunity.
And if you are in highsec there is no point in weapons at all unless you are war.
Laser POS guns actually DO use ammo. They damage the crystals in similar way like T2 crystals get damaged. It is just pretty much irrelevant as any battle will be over far far faster than the POS gun is able to burn through the crystal.
As far as running POS out of ammo - well good luck with that. A fully loaded gun can fire quite a long while even on bonused tower. If you have that much time in your hands to orbit the button you might as well RF the small tower with your solo bomber or disable the small guns in AF.
Keep in mind that POS guns stats are measured from the POS tower, not from the gun. Spreading them a little out just means that you just cant smartbomb them all at once - more relevant for null sec ofc where supercaps can waltz around without any worries in the world other than the occasional wild HiC/DiC appearing.
Only problem with ewar batteries is that they all are considered "large". Meaning that they take forever and then some to hit a frig and then they cykle a short time after locking the next thing forever (if there is next thing present to lock). Then again it's always nice to have 1-2 ECM around so that people could not just AFK your pos in a laser boat and would need occasionally to alt-tab back in to reactivate guns.
Guns and tower are prettycheap. So if you do get wardecced you might as well leave em up and just evacuate your shinies. Also less probability of being watched by a cloaky taking your tower down and then being bumped away from it just before it unachors in most embarrassing manner and watching the wardeccers scooping your pos tower themselves. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
849
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Posted - 2014.08.04 19:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote: Lasers. No ammo means that a frigate wont speed tank until the guns/launchers are depleted, allowing bugger guns to bear down with impunity.
And if you are in highsec there is no point in weapons at all unless you are war.
Laser POS guns actually DO use ammo. They damage the crystals in similar way like T2 crystals get damaged. It is just pretty much irrelevant as any battle will be over far far faster than the POS gun is able to burn through the crystal. As far as running POS out of ammo - well good luck with that. A fully loaded gun can fire quite a long while even on bonused tower. If you have that much time in your hands to orbit the button you might as well RF the small tower with your solo bomber or disable the small guns in AF. Keep in mind that POS guns stats are measured from the POS tower, not from the gun. Spreading them a little out just means that you just cant smartbomb them all at once - more relevant for null sec ofc where supercaps can waltz around without any worries in the world other than the occasional wild HiC/DiC appearing. Only problem with ewar batteries is that they all are considered "large". Meaning that they take forever and then some to hit a frig and then they cykle a short time after locking the next thing forever (if there is next thing present to lock). Then again it's always nice to have 1-2 ECM around so that people could not just AFK your pos in a laser boat and would need occasionally to alt-tab back in to reactivate guns. Guns and tower are prettycheap. So if you do get wardecced you might as well leave em up and just evacuate your shinies. Also less probability of being watched by a cloaky taking your tower down and then being bumped away from it just before it unachors in most embarrassing manner and watching the wardeccers scooping your pos tower themselves.
Well, you learn something every day. Much appreciated.
http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
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