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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Orvanick Garrendi
Ariake Industries
0
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Posted - 2014.08.02 05:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been wondering...for such technology advanced civilizations in the Eve universe which had millennia to invent much better materials, why are they still sticking to steel for ship armor plates? What happened to materials like Zortirum, Adamentium and Neutronium (or any other materials which doesn't rhyme with steel or tungsten)? It would be nice if I can fit a 1600mm Neutronium Armor Plate II on my battleship instead of a 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plate II. What do you guys think? |
Esna Pitoojee
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
427
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Posted - 2014.08.03 02:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
First answer: It's cheap. The Big 4 empires all use other types of armor plating in their ship construction (which we see as components used in T2 ship production. Steel plating is likely a holdover used in vessels where sheer absolute protection is not as important as cost concerns. Examples include civilians ships and pirate or rebel vessels constructed with limited resources.
Second answer: "Steel plating" does not simply mean a slab of steel. When we think of "steel plating", we often think of something like Rolled Homogeneous Armor (RHA), which is nothing more than a plate of steel formed using specific processes and composition. In contrast, armor plating in EVE is constructed of multiple layers with various types of anti-damage membranes, nanite pumps for armor repair and containment, etc. Building the majority of the plating out of steel does not change this at all. In particular T2 plating is, by definition, constructed with Morphite included in the formula of the armor plate to give it a vast boost in strength. |
Orvanick Garrendi
Ariake Industries
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 07:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nice.
That explains a lot, thanks for the info. But I still think CCP could make them sound better... |
Tavin Aikisen
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
274
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Posted - 2014.08.03 11:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Not to mention, do we really know what their definition of steel is? Could have anything mixed into it by then. Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home. -Cold Wind |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
222
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Posted - 2014.08.03 12:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Orvanick Garrendi wrote:I've been wondering...for such technology advanced civilizations in the Eve universe which had millennia to invent much better materials, why are they still sticking to steel for ship armor plates? What happened to materials like Zortirum, Adamentium and Neutronium (or any other materials which doesn't rhyme with steel or tungsten)? It would be nice if I can fit a 1600mm Neutronium Armor Plate II on my battleship instead of a 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plate II. What do you guys think?
Do you know what Neutronium is?! I can assure you, a civilization able to build armor out of Neutronium would be goddamn impressive.
However, Zortrium and Adamantium don't actually exist, I think. So CCP could make them materials in the game and claim they could do whatever.
But I do confess this "Steel Plate II" bullshit is stupid. Rolled tungsten should be better then steel, not the other way around. Right now I rationalize this with T2-steel plates being really heavy: It's just an ultra-condensed version of normal steel plates. And New Eden steel is some kind of fancy alloy which would make our steel look like half-molten butter.
Still, having armor plates with more inventive names / more interesting traits would be fun. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
3892
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Posted - 2014.08.04 16:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Steel is an immensely versatile and useful material. I think we can reasonably assume that the metallurgy of a future where spaceships can literally reconstruct themselves from burning wreckage to full functionality again, where kilometer-long battleships take only half an hour to build and where nanotechnology can repair heat-damaged intricate equipment in a matter of seconds might be able to do some things with good steel that we can't envision.
steel is, after all, only an alloy of iron and carbon. What if the carbon was in the form of, say, a graphene mesh? Nanotubes? Fullerenes? For all we know a nanotube-carbon steel cable only as thick as an elastic band could lift a tank. one millimeter of graphene-laminate steel could be equivalent to ten times that thickness of our very best steel.
Don't discount just how much you can accomplish with carbon, let alone carbon alloyed with metallic iron. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Orvanick Garrendi
Ariake Industries
0
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Posted - 2014.08.05 10:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Haha yep Neutronium's the dense material left behind by supernovas.
That being said, Eve minerals like tritanium and nocxium for example don't exist in real life either.
If you'd take a look at the layered plating description, it says 'plating is composed of several additional tritanium layers'. Maybe they can form alloys out of these minerals and call it something else? Instead of steel?
Well if the carbon is in the form of a graphenemesh or nanotube shouldn't CCP be more specific? Like rolled tungsten alloys which states the tungsten is wrapped in a sheath of platinum. Reinforced steel sounds like the stuff you use in the foundations of buildings in real life...a little primitive for a starship? |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
225
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Posted - 2014.08.05 11:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Orvanick Garrendi wrote:Haha yep Neutronium's the dense material left behind by supernovas.
That being said, Eve minerals like tritanium and nocxium for example don't exist in real life either.
If you'd take a look at the layered plating description, it says 'plating is composed of several additional tritanium layers'. Maybe they can form alloys out of these minerals and call it something else? Instead of steel?
Well if the carbon is in the form of a graphenemesh or nanotube shouldn't CCP be more specific? Like rolled tungsten alloys which states the tungsten is wrapped in a sheath of platinum. Reinforced steel sounds like the stuff you use in the foundations of buildings in real life...a little primitive for a starship?
I always explain the minerals with the long time New Eden has been isolated from us and how much time has passed since our times. Both cases would most likely transform common minerals we know into something completely incomprehensible for us, due to language drift.
Also confusingly, some Eve minerals like Pyerite do exist. CCP likes to throw curveballs, apparently. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
3898
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Posted - 2014.08.05 15:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Orvanick Garrendi wrote:Well if the carbon is in the form of a graphenemesh or nanotube shouldn't CCP be more specific? Like rolled tungsten alloys which states the tungsten is wrapped in a sheath of platinum. Reinforced steel sounds like the stuff you use in the foundations of buildings in real life...a little primitive for a starship?
The name is supposed to be for easy identification on the market, not a complete technical schematic.
Which would you rather buy: "reinforced steel plates"? Or "reinforced rolled steel/titanium/graphene laminate plating with integral shock absorption microarrays, microcirculatory cooling system, Faraday nanowiring and gravitonic integrity field conduits, repair nanite channels and advanced multi-function energy transfer subsurface circuitry, rated to withstand 12 gigatons or nearest energy equivalent"? An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Marcus Gord
Stormcrows
63068
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Posted - 2014.08.06 11:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Orvanick Garrendi wrote:Well if the carbon is in the form of a graphenemesh or nanotube shouldn't CCP be more specific? Like rolled tungsten alloys which states the tungsten is wrapped in a sheath of platinum. Reinforced steel sounds like the stuff you use in the foundations of buildings in real life...a little primitive for a starship? The name is supposed to be for easy identification on the market, not a complete technical schematic. Which would you rather buy: " reinforced steel plates"? Or " reinforced rolled steel/titanium/graphene laminate plating with integral shock absorption microarrays, microcirculatory cooling system, Faraday nanowiring and gravitonic integrity field conduits, repair nanite channels and advanced multi-function energy transfer subsurface circuitry, rated to withstand 12 gigatons or nearest energy equivalent"?
i'd like to see us come up with an acronym for the latter, like we do with EANM or CDFE You can't take the sky from me
".....Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well....." http://i.imgur.com/LM2NKUf.png |
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CCP Falcon
7866
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Posted - 2014.08.07 10:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Typical armor construction for the four empires is based on:
Amarr - Tungsten Carbide Caldari - Titanium Diborite Gallente - Crystalline Carbonide Minmatar - Fernite Carbide Composite
In the same respect, in present times common steel is an allow of iron and carbon, which boosts its tensile strength and makes it a lot harder, especially when it's treated further for additional hardness depending on its intended usage.
We're talking about a civilization 20,000 years from now, that has gone beyond even our most wild fantasies in terms of scientific application.
What's to say the name "steel" isn't simply used as a general term to refer to an alloy in the times New Eden is set in?
The English language has changed a lot over the past 1000 years or so, imagine what 20 times that timespan would do to it CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Inter Vivos Trust Service
72
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Posted - 2014.08.07 10:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Not to mention that once you start playing with whimsical materials like neutronium you begin to divorce the vocabulary of your fiction from common speech to the nigh useless realm of technobabble.
As a total side note, it might be that a relatively simple alloy resembling steel (perhaps itself a loan word from the early Earth settlers) is used in Amarrian spaceship design but has been supplanted by more advanced T2 armor manufacturing. This would be similar to the way that the alloy used in traditional Katanas is of an inferior quality to Western alloys of the time but was brought to a similar standard through extensive labor on the part of the swordmaker. The Amarr Empire could have lagged behind in metallurgy by means of the simple fact that through a huge expenditure of physical labor they were able to change the low-grade alloy into a usable product without having the knowledge of how to better refine the alloy chemically. "I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."-á- Book of Reclaiming 22:13 |
RoAnnon
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
425
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Posted - 2014.08.07 12:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Amarr - Tungsten Carbide Caldari - Titanium Diborite Gallente - Crystalline Carbonide Minmatar - Fernite Carbide CompositeRusty Duct Tape
I saw something needed fixing, Falcon.
So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter. |
Marcus Gord
Stormcrows
63721
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Posted - 2014.08.08 11:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
RoAnnon wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Amarr - Tungsten Carbide Caldari - Titanium Diborite Gallente - Crystalline Carbonide Minmatar - Fernite Carbide CompositeRusty Duct Tape
I saw something needed fixing, Falcon.
don't forget hope. You can't take the sky from me
".....Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well....." http://i.imgur.com/LM2NKUf.png |
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CCP Falcon
7872
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Posted - 2014.08.08 11:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tavin Aikisen wrote:Not to mention, do we really know what their definition of steel is? Could have anything mixed into it by then.
Exactly.
There's a lot of misconception about Tritanium for instance, too, that are well documented with a lot of players wondering why half the ships in EVE don't spontaneously combust
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2842
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Posted - 2014.08.08 12:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tavin Aikisen wrote:Not to mention, do we really know what their definition of steel is? Could have anything mixed into it by then.
Do we know what their definition of IS is? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3703
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Posted - 2014.08.08 12:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Tavin Aikisen wrote:Not to mention, do we really know what their definition of steel is? Could have anything mixed into it by then. Exactly. There's a lot of misconception about Tritanium for instance, too, that are well documented with a lot of players wondering why half the ships in EVE don't spontaneously combust I would imagine Tritanium is alloyed with trace elements of something else that neutralize its instability, much the way that mercury is alloyed with silver, tin, copper, and some other metals to create a substance that quite unlike mercury itself is neither a liquid at room temperature nor toxic to humans and thus suitable for use in fillings for cavities...to give one real-world example. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1292
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Posted - 2014.08.08 20:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:There's a lot of misconception about Tritanium for instance, too, that are well documented with a lot of players wondering why half the ships in EVE don't spontaneously combust So THAT'S what the problem is. This always happens to me, usually just after I lock up another player. The tritanium must be further weakened by targeting system activation or something.
And there was me thinking I was just bad at PvP. :) Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
230
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Posted - 2014.08.09 09:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
mynnna wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Tavin Aikisen wrote:Not to mention, do we really know what their definition of steel is? Could have anything mixed into it by then. Exactly. There's a lot of misconception about Tritanium for instance, too, that are well documented with a lot of players wondering why half the ships in EVE don't spontaneously combust I would imagine Tritanium is alloyed with trace elements of something else that neutralize its instability, much the way that mercury is alloyed with silver, tin, copper, and some other metals to create a substance that quite unlike mercury itself is neither a liquid at room temperature nor toxic to humans and thus suitable for use in fillings for cavities...to give one real-world example.
Hah, and I thought "Tritanium" was just Titanium hit by language shift.
By the way, the number of real elements is up to 118 already, we better start a petition soon to name element 121 Tritanium, before it gets on of those long and boring sounding Latin monster names, like many of the other transuranian metals. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2393
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Posted - 2014.08.11 00:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Tavin Aikisen wrote:Not to mention, do we really know what their definition of steel is? Could have anything mixed into it by then. Exactly. There's a lot of misconception about Tritanium for instance, too, that are well documented with a lot of players wondering why half the ships in EVE don't spontaneously combust
I could have sworn that Tritanium was only unstable inside an atmosphere. |
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Esna Pitoojee
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
438
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Posted - 2014.08.11 04:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Tavin Aikisen wrote:Not to mention, do we really know what their definition of steel is? Could have anything mixed into it by then. Exactly. There's a lot of misconception about Tritanium for instance, too, that are well documented with a lot of players wondering why half the ships in EVE don't spontaneously combust I could have sworn that Tritanium was only unstable inside an atmosphere.
This is correct, but our ships must have an atmosphere to support crew, and station interior sometimes appear to have an atmosphere as well. A lot of people were confused by that, until the "alloyed tritanium" argument popped up. |
Bohneik Itohn
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
679
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Posted - 2014.08.16 04:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Availability. As an example steel became so scarce during both world wars that they started building warships out of concrete (mostly as an experiment and proof of concept in case the war continued longer than steel supplies could hold out altogether, but they were still built in not-insignificant numbers).
If there isn't enough supply for your demand, there isn't enough supply. Find something else. Moar is better is also a common mantra when it comes to military armor engineering. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
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