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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Simsung Padecain
8
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Posted - 2014.08.03 14:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
It has come to my attention that CCP has another glorious feature making it's way into WH space. (currently on sisi)
The distance that your ship will be ejected out of a wormhole after you jump, is based on it's mass. Capital ships go up to 40km off the wormhole!
I am very, very curious what's the thought process behind this change, because as a 2+ years old inhabitant of WH space, I can think of ONE positive aspect and numerous negative ones.
Positive: No more combat rolling (there was counter play to it - going all in)
Negative: Even more tedious finding active wormholes for fights / other activities Less confidence in using capital ships in fights as they will almost surely get rolled out by the other party. (Very rare occurence, but still) jumping 2 carriers possibly could eject them outside of rep range. Less activity in chains / less ragerolling - less fights Pretty much invincible scouts (if the distance for frigates also has changed, ejecting them at a distance will let them cloak up 100% of the time after jumping a hole without possibility of reliable counter play). A fleet jumping a hole will possibly have an option to just moonwalk out of there. Bubbles are only this big. Unacceptable "random" factor level. It's just impossible to find a reliable counterplay to this change. (probably many, many more that I cannot think of at the moment)
If an entity doesn't want to fight you, they won't fight anyway, combat rolling was their only option to carry on whatever they had planned in the first place. |
Traiori
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
25
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was struggling to think of a firm reason behind this change. It doesn't drive conflict: scouts are always cloaky in wormhole space and letting them spawn at cloaking-distance consistently means that they aren't going to get caught in the majority of scenarios (they already barely ever get caught as it is. "Catch the Cov Ops" is basically an art form). Rolling holes with active pilots in will now require you to be prepared to fight the inhabitants, which would defeat the purpose of rolling the hole in the first place, ragerolling will now take longer, committing caps to fights seems more risky, given that you now spawn at a random point in space away from the fight (which is nearly always at 0m).
I'd tempted to say that this is a bug on sisi, rather than a deliberate feature being brought into the game. Anyone got any discussion from fanfest or similar about it that I've just missed? |
Dark Armata
Bookmark Both Sides Exit Strategy..
99
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Beaten to the punch, will modify my thread to keep it all in the same place.
This was mentioned at fanfest as a feature to encourage fights.
Want to go on record that I am 100% against this change. even if the range limit is shortened.
For PvP-based entities; Ragerolling will take longer per hole. Going baseballs deep with your own caps could be utterly useless due to where you spawn in relation to the fight. Subcap fleets wouldn't be immune either, jumping into an already set up enemy fleet could see your own fleet scattered. Catching someone on the other side of a wormhole would be harder. Scout ships (already slippery little devils) would have their levels of slipperiness increased dramatically).
For PvE-based entities; Implications here are obvious. But rolling wormholes would crazy dangerous (not that it already isn't)
Would this change see more fights in the immediate future? Probably as wormholes are rolled as smaller groups vacate wormholes.
This change benefits the biggest corps/alliances the most. And even then only in the short term.
The basic wormhole mechanics are great. In fact. it is why wormholers are still here.
Wormhole content is not dead, extreme measures are not required. W-Space IS Best Space |
Simsung Padecain
10
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Traiori wrote:. I'd tempted to say that this is a bug on sisi, rather than a deliberate feature being brought into the game. Anyone got any discussion from fanfest or similar about it that I've just missed?
It was confirmed by a CSM member, I haven't asked for his permission to post his words here though. |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
451
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Confirming: CCP hates wspace. Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Dark Armata
Bookmark Both Sides Exit Strategy..
99
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
For all those that asked CCP to interfere with W-Space. Words can not express the hatred.
I honestly thought this was one of "those" ideas when it was brought up here.
You know the ones you instantly file under - haha nice troll ... try again. W-Space IS Best Space |
Traiori
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
25
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'll add that Combat Rolling has a point to it as well: it means that smaller groups can take a fight for long enough to shove people out of their hole when they can't take it or to stop reinforcements from being added as a fight is prolonged.
Which given that the larger groups are running fleets that occasionally hit 40-50 people is almost an essential. Stopping reinforcements was a tactic in wormhole space that this would remove. Which means that groups without reinforcements will take less fights, I suppose. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
617
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:Confirming: CCP hates wspace. Truth level: over 9000
This is NOT the way to do it CCP. This won't help create interesting fights as no one is going to jump caps into a hostile setup fleet now because there is no way to predict positioning or whether they spawn close enough to support. You've handed yet another advantage to people (the larger groups) who didn't need it....... just like 00 hmmmmmm
[Sarcasm]GG CCP, GG[/Sarcasm]
I'm right behind you |
Zara Arran
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
94
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
When connected to a pvp entity, who will now dare to jump into the other WH for a fight? Especially if it is their home system?
This is bad!! |
Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
27
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
I hope ccp is paying attention.
This is 100% wrong.
I can only echo what has been posted above by other Experienced WH pilots that have posted.
This will drive more people out of wh space and by this take away content. Corps that are less Confident in pvp and only fight because they can fight on a mass reduced wh or with there cap support will be less likely to fight.
Pvp corps will not want to jump a Fleet into another Fleet via A wh due to the scattering of the jump and caps possible spawning 40 km apart. Makes bumping carriers apart to easy for the GÇ£DefendingGÇ¥ corp and isolating them to kill off. Dreads will not be able to be in refit range of carriers.
Bad idea ccp very bad. I see No wormhole pilot liking this idea as it hurts all of us in the long run and will drive more pilots to get out of wh space or just cancel there subscriptions .
With the upstart of Star citizen which is a big buzz in your community now. You should not be doing this as it will reduce the number of pilots in game
One possible ideas to help conflict would be to install a class 7 wh with capital sleepers in sights, no moons and a 10 billion wh with multi statics to incress the chance of someone seeing you farming it.
Just my thoughts here but every person i talk to Dislikes this Change |
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Murashj
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gunner GzR wrote:...due to the scattering of the jump and caps possible spawning 40 km apart.
Worst case scenario, 80k |
HerrBert
V0LTA Triumvirate.
482
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Drama Timeline established:
HK on reddit Meanwhile on the lovely Island Island Myself included
Only wormholes goes Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
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Zlorthishen
Blue-Fire
39
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
pls no CCP Blue-Fire : Best Fire |
Angsty Teenager
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
520
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hi CCP,
This is a formal friendly letter to
F U C K R I G H T O F F
It's clear that nobody at CCP actually plays the game in wormholes so why don't you just take your nose out of stuff you know nothing about. Pretty much every single change made to wormholes recently has been in the wrong direction, so feel free to change your thinking on w-space because you clearly aren't on the correct train of thought. |
Franky Saken
Hard Knocks Inc.
46
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
taking away an essential tool for smaller groups to even take a fight: less fights taking away expos where you can't defend your rolling group: less fights
less people in wormhole space: even less fights
no reason we get 90% of our fights in nullsec jesus |
Antimatter0097
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
100% against this change. This doesnt increase content, it slows it down for those who rageroll for it. |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
487
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
ok so some stuff is up on reddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2ci5ue/dear_ccp_stop_fucking_with_wormholes_please/
I'll be totally honest I'm not sure what I can and can't say about stuff (i'm checking now on skype).
What would really help is for people to discuss it and put feed back in a calm and meaning full way. Raging and calling people names won't help me at all.
I see several issues.
it makes a boring job rolling holes more boring. This favours bigger groups over smaller groups. C2 to C4 orcas could be a issue.
It probably wont affect farmers at all cos if they connect to a big group they will just not bother to roll and log.
Chitsa Jason wrote:Hey Corby,
I would like to pint out a few ideas. Some of those have been pointed out previously but I think it is important to mentions them. So here is my list of small things.
18. Make it so that the higher of the ship mass the further it spawns from the wormhole by jumping through. Would increase the ability to catch rolling ships, would make rage rolling slower.
This didn't make it on to my little things sheet btw.
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
Carlos Agathon
Grumpy Bastards No Response
9
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Can a Dev please elaborate wether this is a bug or actually intended - which I hope it is not. Now I usually don't complain that much about changes that are being made to w-space and I don't like throwing phrases like 'this will break wormholes' around, but I am sure that this will completely disrupt how wormholes work.
So please, with the recent attention given to this subforum by the devs, please let us know what your intention is and why you'd like to see this change. |
Lyron-Baktos
Hard Knocks Inc.
453
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Whoever at CCP came up with this idea, please respond here with why you are doing it.
thanks How the **** do you remove a signature? |
Liberty Prime
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exit Strategy..
34
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
I had to check to see if this was an April Fool's joke because I couldn't believe such a thing would really be implemented. |
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Vasyamba
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lol CCP, i dont even live in wormholes and this sounds terrible. |
Annie Gardet
V0LTA Triumvirate.
2
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP |
Kynric
Sky Fighters
142
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zara Arran wrote:When connected to a pvp entity, who will now dare to jump into the other WH for a fight? Especially if it is their home system?
This is bad!!
It would change the meta which is not exactly the same as the end of all life. I thought everyone was tired of t3 fleet as the fleet for every occasion? This change sounds very similar to jumping through a regional gate into another gang and that happens every day in other regions of space. Scouts get killed doing it also although it is a bit more difficult to catch them. It might even be more fun as it would greatly expand the number of viable doctrines. More options is usually more interesting. Perhaps the numbers used for spawn distance are off but conceptually I kinda like it. |
Zara Arran
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
97
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Wouldn't it make more sense to have it the other way around? High mass being spawned less far, and the smaller ships further? This would be less bad at the least... |
Angsty Teenager
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
520
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
I just wish that CCP would actually play the game in wormholes and base their opinion of what needs to be done off that rather than sitting and listening to CSM candidates who have no idea what they're talking about (in this case I'm specifically talking about Chitsa).
I just want to slam my fist to my desk any time I see stupid changes being made w-space just willy nilly (I'm looking at you CCP FoxFour). "OH ITS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE GAME, LETS TAKE IT OUT" They just don't even pay any attention to balance or meta-game implications.
If you really want to have mass have an impact, why not apply to in k-space to gates? So frigs can land at like 5 km, and BS at like 30 km. Even better, apply it to cynos. Titans at 100 km, supers at 50 km, carriers/dreads at 5-10 km. OH WAIT, that won't happen because everybody knows it would ruin a lot of small gang pvp. I just cannot even fathom the thought process being the supposed veteran game designers at CCP. How long have you been doing this? Why can't you get it right for once, or even better, if you don't know if you can, how about you go and do research by playing the game.
If the reasons why this change is bad have to be explained to you, then you shouldn't be in charge of making the decisions on gameplay changes in W-space. This is very very very clear when EVREY SINGLE PERSON in this thread is saying the change is bad. Are they all extremely analytic metagamers? NO THEY'RE NOT, they're normal wormhole players. That alone tells me that whoever is in charge of wormholes at the moment has no clue what they're doing and does not even play the game in the area they're in charge of designing.
Baffling. |
Torval Shank
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
6
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
This is a bad idea for all of the reasons mentioned above. Rolling holes with caps will now be so risky, that most won't even bother to attempt it; just run more battleships through it. Less risk to caps, less content for everyone.
You'll NEVER catch a cloaky scout again. It's already nigh impossible; now it really will be.
I agree that this will drive some groups completely out of WH space, which is already pretty desolate as it is.
100% against this change. |
Freya Myst
Negative Density No Response
1
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
I DO not acknowledge this .. as it would RUIN WH space.. Id suggest reversing it at least with bigger mass closer u are.. but having caps ending up 40km off a wh.. thats just disappointing.. maybe allow frigs and such end up at further range would make more sense.. |
Janus Nanzikambe
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
67
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Do Not Want |
Lord Blacksmith
Midnight Conclave
3
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Corbexx, as a career wormholer, the problem is that this is a breaking enough change that the first response, a little bit kneejerk I will admit, is to sigh and unsubscribe, because it's actually pretty hard to think that folks who thought that
a) this was a good idea b) was perfectly fine to just toss in unannounced
are going to not kill w-space in some way, and I really don't want to watch the trainwreck - I'd prefer the years of good memories. You're going to have to work through a ton of people's pure white-hot, unmitigated rage before real civilized discourse becomes linkely. This will take time.
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Laurici
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
60
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fights like the one we just had with exit strategy would and could never happen with a system implemented like this.
If the objective is to stop capital fights in w-space, you've hit the nail on the head. Why you would want that, is a separate issue. |
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