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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Elana Apgar
DarkMatter-Industries Upholders
2
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:05:00 -
[151] - Quote
This is one of the WORST ideas/things you could EVER do to W-Space.
Like everyone else before has mentioned, this will kill PVP. You can't possibly try to pvp with any type of mixed (mixed being battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers, etc.) fleet comp if everyone is going to be spewed out in all sorts of random directions. You would basically be signing your hole fleet up for slaughter.
One of the fleets that my alliance likes to do is travel through our pipe in RR Domis. With this new concept, that would be impossible. Domis have a range of 10km for cap chain and 8.5k for rep range. Spawning 40km off the hole in a random direction would completely kill this concept. You would be removing content instead of adding.
Fighting in wormholes occur on wormholes most of the time, and I understand wanting to try and change it up, but something like this would break wormholes, much like adding local to wormholes.
Please do not implement this change. It is repugnant to the entire wormhole community. It will break wormholes, and remove content from the game.
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Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
496
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:07:00 -
[152] - Quote
W-space jump mechanics ain't broke. Don't fix them.
There ARE things that are broken: free discovery scanner sig intel, free industry intel via teams, and ore belts as anomalies instead of signatures. Fix those.
Does the WH brawling style of fighting confuse your nullsec minds so much that you need to make W-space more like K-space? Nano-kiting is the rule of thumb in K-space. Armour brawling is the rule of thumb in W-space. You don't need every place in the game to have the exact same mechanics as everywhere else. You do know that polarization exists, right? That we can't keep jumping back and forth at any given time?
Are we TOO efficient at hunting, finding your nullsec farming fleets, and ripping them to shreds? Please show us on the doll where a W-space group touched your ratting or C5 farming fleet.
Are you going to make the same kind of changes affect Cynos and K-space gates, or are only the W-space groups in your crosshairs?
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Antimatter0097
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
2
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:07:00 -
[153] - Quote
Hans Bonderstadt wrote:no
Pros: lol
Cons: everything
If this is for real, im literally moving to nullsec I might consider this a positive if you actually do end up moving :D
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Hans Bonderstadt
Codename-47
21
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:10:00 -
[154] - Quote
Antimatter0097 wrote:Hans Bonderstadt wrote:no
Pros: lol
Cons: everything
If this is for real, im literally moving to nullsec I might consider this a positive if you actually do end up moving :D
Well you are one rudey pooty pitootie Not quite sure what I did to you :)
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Alundil
Isogen 5
620
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:14:00 -
[155] - Quote
Firefox4312 Yatolila wrote:Rant over, watching Lucy in theatre right now. I'm so sorry. It's terrible.
I'm right behind you |
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
162
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:15:00 -
[156] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Good afternoon everyone.
We are indeed working on some changes to how ships spawn when they jump through wormholes. This is one part of a series of wormhole iterations we are working on and...
...
Lo Fozzie,
don't take hate but somehow i got the feeling that i do not like any part of that extract of your post.
Just leave w-space alone, for me personally it is by far the best part of Eve, so looking at the changes you guys brought to the game lately (beside the changes to scanning, these are really good) i doubt it will get any better.
Best Regards Gal
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Dentric Crendraven
DarkMatter-Industries Upholders
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:15:00 -
[157] - Quote
Hans Bonderstadt wrote:Antimatter0097 wrote:Hans Bonderstadt wrote:no
Pros: lol
Cons: everything
If this is for real, im literally moving to nullsec I might consider this a positive if you actually do end up moving :D Well you are one rudey pooty pitootie Not quite sure what I did to you :)
Could Possibly have something to do with the Swastika POS or the general **** talking in local.
But that's none of my business |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
58
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:20:00 -
[158] - Quote
Kynric wrote: Oh the horror of needing a dozen pilots to rage roll (do people honestly rage roll with a gang smaller than that?)
Some of the best times I have had was with just 4-6 pilots. One scout so that doesn-¦t leave much wiggleroom.
If I was with team tinfoldhat I-¦d say nullbears have lost too many caps/supers on wormholes because they were too scared to follow the wounded caps in. If the cap is not in jumprange anymore they can do riskfree titandrivebys or just throw everything at it until TiDi hits. Free capkills for the blob.
I find it cute how people think this will force people to move away from armor-T3s. You know that over 50% of those ships will have longrange scrams and webs and spawn in a tiny ball around the hole. If you bring f.e. kitey BS they will still appear in range and you will loose alot of them fast since they will also outdps you. Or they will really **** you over and bring a lot of damps, tank you easily and just roll you in because you don-¦t have a HIC on the hole. This stuff works in k-space because a) regional gates f.e. spawn your entire fleet scattered inside a huge radius and b) there are flippin gates you can take to get out and around. Here it is loose your holecontrol and you loose your way home.
This change will also make camping retardedly easy, you see what jumps, you do the math and then have a ceptor orbit the hole at the spawnrange. Or in case of covertops just smartbomb his ass, you know he is within 2000m of the hole.
Fozzies response also feels like "we have already decided on how to change everything. We might adjust some numbers." |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
180
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:21:00 -
[159] - Quote
While I respect the effort to make WHs more unpredictable and thus dangerous, you need to be careful of the degree of danger you present.
40km jump range possible? no one will risk that at all with heavier ships and fleets, oh sure you will have the few that will risk it, but its a minority, and you can't balance a game around that. Its like saying capitals coming into a cyno will come out somewhere within a 40km radius, do you think you will jump your capital then?
Now 15km range, same as stargates, I wouldn't mind that, but I still feel that it just takes away the distinct WH like feel of the space I've come to love.
I cautiously await your next proposals. -Bl+¦d
http://bloodytravels.blogspot.com/ -á-- My travels through space. |
Chrysalis Pollard
Griffin Capsuleers Ad-Astra
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:22:00 -
[160] - Quote
Wanted to chime in on this thread. Being a smaller corp, this will significantly affect our ability to close holes as we will not want to risk our Orcas and maybe not even our battleships to close a hostile hole or get a new LS static for better PvE or PvP opportunities. Will it cause us to leave WH space? Probably not, but if we have dangerous or deadly connections or a really crappy static, we will probably just stay possed up and flip to our HS mission running or mining alts instead of trying to stay and play in the wormhole space.
Also, its very concerning to me why CCP seems to keep needing to relearn the lesson of open and honest communication when it comes to the player base and CSM regarding changes to game mechanics. |
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Dentric Crendraven
DarkMatter-Industries Upholders
2
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:25:00 -
[161] - Quote
Also, this is just a terrible move. Regardless of whether this is final coding or not just don't mess with the jump mechanics of wormholes. They are fine how they are.
Honestly if this is the kind of stuff you are going to do with wormholes without consulting the community of which it will affect the most.. just don't mess with wspace.
Talk to Corbexx, talk to the wspace community. Find out what we want changed if anything. Don't go messing with things we didn't ask for. Right now wspace is the best space mechanics wise and any changes need to be taken with care.
It doesn't make any sense. WHers like their space, Null seccers do not. Fix the broken space before you start messing with other space. |
DirtyJob
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:26:00 -
[162] - Quote
If you really really must change mechanics. What about spawning distance on other end should be connected with speed of ship before jump? Then as some ppl suggested you can still use "sniper" doctrines and have some options when jumping on other site.
I am very very sceptical about any change that would push capitals away from hole. It would reduce even more it usage in WH. If someone want to roll hole(cos another end is less then favorable) leave him be with current mechanics. If he would not be able to quickly roll he will probably just afk at POS or play another game till he will be absolutly sure he can roll current static or it will collapse on it's own. |
Bob Artis
Into the Ether RAZOR Alliance
66
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:31:00 -
[163] - Quote
That sounds really backwards. Why not have the heavier ships spawn closer to the wormhole and have the lighter ships flung further away?
Capitals and Orcas will still spawn within 5km like everything else now and frigates will be the ships that end up 50km away and spread out. |
Vivi Udan
Multiplex Gaming The Bastion
41
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:36:00 -
[164] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:...We are indeed working on some changes to how ships spawn when they jump through wormholes. This is one part of a series of wormhole iterations we are working on and that we will be publishing a dev blog on soon. ... In the meantime I advise you all to not panic. Nobody is out to get you...
I don't live in wormholes so I could just be out of the loop, but WHY did CCP feel the NEED to make changes to this aspect of wormholes?
I know people who live/lived in wormholes and they all seemed to really like how the current system works. The Mittani of House GoonWaffe,-áFirst of His name, King of the Goons and VFK,-áMaster of griefing,-áLord of the CFC, Warden of the West,-áand Protector of Deklein. |
Korben Kurvora
Hard Knocks Inc.
21
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:37:00 -
[165] - Quote
Dentric Crendraven wrote:Hans Bonderstadt wrote:Antimatter0097 wrote:Hans Bonderstadt wrote:If this is for real, im literally moving to nullsec I might consider this a positive if you actually do end up moving :D Well you are one rudey pooty pitootie Not quite sure what I did to you :) Could Possibly have something to do with the Swastika POS or the general **** talking in local. But that's none of my business And who said wormholers don't hold grudges?
This is an absolutely terrible change. Keep up the good work, CCP. |
Arec Bardwin
1490
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 19:43:00 -
[166] - Quote
A prime example of :CCP: development philosophy |
Doc Hollidai
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
54
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:43:00 -
[167] - Quote
1. Rolling holes with capitals will be a thing of the past as you now have 5 minutes of your capital exposed which people won't do. So if you're not using capitals, then you won't be putting nearly as much mass on a hole as quick... so cloaky carrier **** won't work anymore. 2. Dreads will decloak at their optimal. Blap dreads are goign to be a thing again. Best way to counter t3 blob when you have multiple dreads, spread the dreads out so they can always track. GG CCP 3. MWD BS will become primary mode of rolling holes. 10 sets for a 3B hole. BS can have prop mod to run away, MJD to jump away unless you have scram, scorpions?, less isk at risk, and more i didn't think of 4. Control a fight on a hole by changing the mass quickly? Not going to happen when you have to slowboat 30km 5. Capital/Freighter jumps through hole, your ****** bubble missed it as it spawned outside range... it gets webbed away and lives... GG
And that's just the stuff that came to mind in the first 5 mins. |
Jess Tanner
Bangworks Systems Inc.
111
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:49:00 -
[168] - Quote
To echo what some people are saying, the inverse of the mass vs distance suggestion does make more sense if your going to mess with the mechanic at all, larger ships should pop out closer to the wormhole, thus forcing the smaller ships to actually pilot their way around after they get spit out if they want to survive. That being said however, I do remember a certain dev coming on a wormhole townhall not that long ago and saying something to the point of w-space was the most balanced aspect of the game, which would seem to suggest that any change in a fundamental mechanic need not be tinkered with while a huge chunk of the game still has gaping holes that need fixing/iteration.... Go with Bob, keep Him always in your heart. He is your Sword, Shield, and the Knife in your back. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5387
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:49:00 -
[169] - Quote
Whatever mechanic you have to cause this effect; apply it to cynos too please. The Paradox |
Tevath
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:51:00 -
[170] - Quote
I just love this new feature! Why? It's simple.
Until now you could relay on your big fleets to win wh fights, when you alone are useless. Now even if your friends come to your rescue, they wont be in jump range to run in case something goes wrong, making them vulnerable. Ins and outs wont be made easily, and your caps wont roll whs just cause it's fun and you need another exit. Vulnerability is the key and i just love how you all are so scared about this.
Null secers are right. This already happens with gates, so.. what's the point of so much fuss? None.. just tears. |
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
120
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:55:00 -
[171] - Quote
Polarization doesn't happen with gates, and aggression timers don't affect wormholes. Apples and oranges. |
Hans Bonderstadt
Codename-47
21
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:56:00 -
[172] - Quote
Really the smaller sized corps get screwed over with this Hole rolling will become ridiculous, with us just moving into a C5-C5 rolling will be literally near impossible if anyone big is in the chain, larger windows in which caps are vulnerable, them spawning out at 40km gives the attackers the advantage of choosing their engagement range, (provided they are off grid or at a ping to start with) forcing defenders to burn up to ~50-60km to defend a capital, which will probably end up dead anyway, which will result in less hole rollings, and meaning larger corps at a Huge advantage, which will probably monopolize wormholes into fewer larger corps than more smaller corps (which IMO is terrible, so many large groups out there reduces small gang pvp, and really hurts the smaller guys.) I feel as though more hit and run/guerrilla warfare mechanics need to be developed so that smaller groups can still do something about the larger groups in an engagement, and larger groups need a reason to not be so... Large... |
Ingersoll Jones
Long Wharf Exploration Inc You Are Being Monitored
1
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:59:00 -
[173] - Quote
I'm gonna have to err on the side of "not the best idea" as well.
Generally, I have little to say when CCP decides to change one mechanic or another in the game; I find it far more productive to find ways to adapt to changes other than whine about them. However, in this case, I think I may need some cheese.
My corp, which is much smaller, tends to farm wormholes in a transient style - move in for just a few days or even hours at a time, farm what we can, and leave. But in doing that, we travel together, with a couple combat ships and various mining and indy ships all at once. I hate to think that jumping though a womhole could possibly place me upwards of 40 to 80 kilometers away from my indy guys (supposing that RNG places us at say 20k off on opposite sides of the hole). I feel that this mechanic somewhat cheapens the wolf-pack tactic that helps to keep us safe, and it would certainly have a significant impact on our ability to do what we do.
I do hope that CCP does find a way to achieve whatever goal it is they have for implementing this change without so harshly penalizing loyal wormholers like myself and the others who have posted here. I didn't choose the wormhole life. The wormhole life chose me. |
Bei Rong
Hard Knocks Inc.
0
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:08:00 -
[174] - Quote
Tevath wrote:I just love this new feature! Why? It's simple.
Until now you could relay on your big fleets to win wh fights, when you alone are useless. Now even if your friends come to your rescue, they wont be in jump range to run in case something goes wrong, making them vulnerable. Ins and outs wont be made easily, and your caps wont roll whs just cause it's fun and you need another exit. Vulnerability is the key and i just love how you all are so scared about this.
Null secers are right. This already happens with gates, so.. what's the point of so much fuss? None.. just tears.
It will give the hold defenders more of a reason to just dump dreads at range, and know that your own caps will be at much greater risk then before. Furthermore, it would force any aggressive force to stand down, since support caps would not be nearly as effective, and we would have to relay on pure bodies at blap range. No fc will call for a fleet to jump into that mess with so much down time, as logis get close enough to set up chains, being webbed and blaped without the life giving reps, and our precious triage carriers being a possible 80mk off, they would just be dead.
And as for null secers their caps don't jump gates, so they avoid their caps blobs being out of rep/ effective dps range, which is the issue rather then sub caps. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
436
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:10:00 -
[175] - Quote
This change in its current SISI implementation is ridiculous. Not only this makes rolling wh even more tedious but also makes this extremely dangerous.
Now, increasing "slightly" random distance to lets say 10ish km could be considered but firstly we need to have a good reason for it. So the question is: WHY?
One answer can be that its too easy to roll wh during pvp to cut away from enemy or cut his way of escaping. While in principle this can be good for the game at the same time in 99% of situations (where there is no pvp) this will only increase time needed to get back trough the wh. At the same time this will help scanners to always be in cloaking range from wh.
But is all of the above good? I'm not sure. I would like a random situation where this would occur. A random element to the game that from time to time can spark a nice fight. But making a rule of it? I don't think so.
Again this change like many proposed before is benefiting mostly large entities that are capable of capital killings. Where smaller entities will be in fear whenever taking capital from SMA. Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Hans Bonderstadt
Codename-47
22
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:10:00 -
[176] - Quote
Tevath wrote:I just love this new feature! Why? It's simple.
Until now you could relay on your big fleets to win wh fights, when you alone are useless. Now even if your friends come to your rescue, they wont be in jump range to run in case something goes wrong, making them vulnerable. Ins and outs wont be made easily, and your caps wont roll whs just cause it's fun and you need another exit. Vulnerability is the key and i just love how you all are so scared about this.
Null secers are right. This already happens with gates, so.. what's the point of so much fuss? None.. just tears.
Yes but the vulnerability applies to everyone including the group that would benefit most from this So in the case of this mechanic, I cant seem to find a way to actually take advantage of this vulnerability Because of the huge range possibility that people could spawn at, this allows no range control, and people with larger forces will be more likely to land a scram on you due to spawning close enough There is no real way to use this mechanic for anything but baiting or ganking Also guardians still land within rep range of everyone, so gg |
Dread Nanana
Action Super Dupper Test Corp
26
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:10:00 -
[177] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote: If I was with team tinfoldhat I-¦d say nullbears have lost too many caps/supers on wormholes because they were too scared to follow the wounded caps in. If the cap is not in jumprange anymore they can do riskfree titandrivebys or just throw everything at it until TiDi hits. Free capkills for the blob.
That's quite delusional regarding nullsec. If anything, the WH people should easily get kills in 0.0 if the are looking a for fight.
Anyway, Instead of jumping in and out with your dread in a risk-free maneuver, you'll need a scout to have a warp out and warp back in? Takes an entire minute. Unless the reason is not to find a fight, like oh-everyone-so-claims, but to avoid one.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
682
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:12:00 -
[178] - Quote
Not so worried about the risk aspect but slow boating a capital ~40km every time you wanted to collapse a hole would be more than a bit of a drag :S
Wouldn't mind seeing some mechanic whereby smaller/lighter ships in a class got spat out further than heavier ones though, does kind of mean covert ops, etc. would be all but uncatchable unless it was done on some kind of bell shaped curve but as an example shield t3 would get spat out at say 20km whereas an armor one at 10km. |
Nelly Uanos
Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions
22
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:23:00 -
[179] - Quote
Fix broken thing, this isn't one!
Bad:
Rolling will be unpleasant as hell, be it for aggressive party that want to find fight or for defensive party that want to close their home.
Sniping dread spreading around hole............
Catching Cov Ops and Blockade Runner will be gone...
Even more Ishtar fleet spreading around... NO THANK
Good:
None... |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
178
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:24:00 -
[180] - Quote
From an overall game design perspective, yes it's a significant change that feedback in this thread would indicate is majority negative.
That being said...
What if it had been like this on day one of Apocrypha, and we'd never had 0-risk hole rolling? Would we be up in arms asking for CCP to make it so everyone spawned within 7.5km of the wormhole? I doubt it.
Maybe wormhole space needs to have its meta smacked around a bit. We don't know what other changes are in flight, so maybe there are other things going on that combine with a change like this (which he said weren't using final values) that makes the overall idea okay to us.
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