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Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
636
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Posted - 2014.08.23 11:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
No. http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/ |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
96
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Posted - 2014.08.23 19:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
If you gyus watched the bids and sales on indu crews - paying multi bill bids for npc crews (titan construction) - you may percieve how powerful crews would be.
As long a a crew could die - have no clone - a crew could bring a new level of simulation to combat on EVE. |
Javina Shana
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.08.23 22:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:If you gyus watched the bids and sales on indu crews - paying multi bill bids for npc crews (titan construction) - you may percieve how powerful crews would be.
As long a a crew could die - have no clone - a crew could bring a new level of simulation to combat on EVE.
Ontop of that, the loss of a crew can be much more painful, especially if you have invested in the crew for a long time.
Question is... what should the limits be? And how would crews act? Would they have one or several traits that makes crew useful in differing ways?
Also are crews hired temporarily or have to pay a fee after a certain time to keep them or should there be a one-time fee to hire the crew permamently? |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
99
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Posted - 2014.08.24 06:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Indu crews have multiple 5% bonuses - that is that what a module can give.
Indu crews need to be hired - you need to find them and then rent them for 30 days . . . |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
149
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Posted - 2014.08.24 07:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
Year 2016, EVE:
Module Gist X-Type Large Bathroom: +17% to crew abilities. And countless slots in fitting window for similar junk. Pith A-type Food: Prevent death of crew by starvation for 6 days.
Oh yeah, do not forget the incarna. |
Nevil Oscillator
Goodfellas Inc.
0
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Posted - 2014.09.17 12:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Item - Prototype Gunnery Crew Fitting - Low Power Slot CPU - 2 Power - 6 Meta Level - 4
Description Raises all effective 1X Gunnery skills to a minimum of 3
BPO Material Requirements 1 Janitor 1 Exotic Dancer 1 Slave 1 Freedom Fighter 120000 Tritanium
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Wraymond Arji
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.09.22 15:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
I simply don't want this to be world of tanks. Crews are a bad idea IMO. it's never good to assimilate skill structure directly from another widely-known MMO. |
Nevil Oscillator
0
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Posted - 2014.09.22 15:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Wraymond Arji wrote:I simply don't want this to be world of tanks. Crews are a bad idea IMO. it's never good to assimilate skill structure directly from another widely-known MMO.
Crew mortality makes them obsolete but capsuleers don't start the game with superpowers at everything so maybe not so obsolete. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Wraymond Arji
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2014.09.22 17:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Wraymond Arji wrote:I simply don't want this to be world of tanks. Crews are a bad idea IMO. it's never good to assimilate skill structure directly from another widely-known MMO. Crew mortality makes them obsolete but capsuleers don't start the game with superpowers at everything so maybe not so obsolete.
The only way I will concede my opinion is if crew skills and advancement are based on usage of said crew; and nothing like the train over time regardless of usage map that normal SP follows. It could provide a little bit of balance if integrated properly to be balanced, it could be a way for newer more active players to build up a good crew to have a small advantage over some older high SP players in short engagements. Maybe make it where crew skills can add up to bonus the things that regular skills do, but cap at the bonuses you would get from that same level 5 skill. So, once you have level 5 in a skill a crew is obsolete in that specific bonus. This should be only acruable by PVP action IMO, or else you have a bunch of people that just farm missions to level a crew, then go jump into PVP leaving the people who PVP a lot yet are still new in a remaining disadvantage. |
Nevil Oscillator
0
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Posted - 2014.09.22 18:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Wraymond Arji wrote: Maybe make it where crew skills can add up to bonus the things that regular skills do, but cap at the bonuses you would get from that same level 5 skill.
Applying limitations would be quite tricky because of the skill ladder that requires a previous skill to be trained first. There are other ways to restrict their usage, such as CPU and power grid requirement, price and rarity.
See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
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Nevil Oscillator
7
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Posted - 2014.09.22 18:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Wraymond Arji wrote:
The only way I will concede my opinion is if crew skills and advancement are based on usage of said crew; and nothing like the train over time regardless of usage map that normal SP follows. It could provide a little bit of balance if integrated properly to be balanced, .
I would agree that the train over time system is flawed but skill advancement is something difficult to find a good solution to. I have no suggestions on that, firstly because it is a huge integral chunk of the game to be messing with, secondly all the alternatives I know of are just as flawed. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Wraymond Arji
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
12
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Posted - 2014.10.03 16:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Wraymond Arji wrote:
The only way I will concede my opinion is if crew skills and advancement are based on usage of said crew; and nothing like the train over time regardless of usage map that normal SP follows. It could provide a little bit of balance if integrated properly to be balanced, .
I would agree that the train over time system is flawed but skill advancement is something difficult to find a good solution to. I have no suggestions on that, firstly because it is a huge integral chunk of the game to be messing with, secondly all the alternatives I know of are just as flawed.
Well, the train over time isn't broken because it can't be manipulated or power leveled, so working as intended. The problem is that a lot of people just want to jump into eve and have everything available without putting the time in. You can't ignore the fact that it's mainly a point of view issue with people expecting too much to come without paying your dues, etc. The only issue is trying to get around that, but this game has never been intended to be an arcade style game. It's highly complex, hard as hell to master, and the learning curve is an over-arcing cliff by design. Honestly if it was any easier I wouldn't play it and would move on to whatever is the hardest thing to play. Some people like to just jump in and have mindless fun. I have to be engaged in extremely difficult challenges to figure out how to overcome them. It's POV of the player. Honestly, EVE is the last bastion of any challenging video games. I would probably just quit playing video games all together if this gets any closer to WOW. Most of us that have been in EVE for years are here to be away from those with a WOW mindset and not put up with whining kids screaming obscenities. This is a re-roll character by the way, not my original, or an alt. EVE used to be the place for people like me to conquer said challenges without having to put up with a community like wow raiders, etc. Those wishing for easier stuff had pretty much every other video game. Now it's being ripped out of that niche for "business purposes" literally snubbing those of us who share my POV. I don;t mind those people being in the game, but when they are just given all the stuff that us who had to grind and skill for YEARS to obtain it is almost literally flipping the bird at us and making all that past effort totally pointless. This is why the term bitter vet cam about and most of the original player base simply left eve. Or some of them infiltrate and intentionally crap on the whiney alliances to make it more difficult. You can't give either side what they want without totally snubbing the other and with every other game trying to be all-inclusive I ask why can't those of us who want our extreme learning curve have 1 place, 1 game that IS NOT like that where we can take on those challenges and say F you to those who are too thin skinned, or can't cut it? |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
115
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Posted - 2014.10.03 17:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
Things are getting more interesting by the day.
Caps and supers using gates - . . .
Titans using DDs in low sec - bomber balance coming - how long will it take until bombs can be launched in low sec?
Caps that will enter high sec in the near future - cap burner missions or L5 missions in high sec in caps?
A logical part for crews would be to soften the jump fatigue effect which only affects jump capable ships. That alone would make crews an asset. |
Nevil Oscillator
7
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Posted - 2014.10.03 17:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
Wraymond Arji wrote:[quote=Nevil Oscillator][quote=Wraymond Arji]
Honestly if it was any easier I wouldn't play it and would move on to whatever is the hardest thing to play. Some people like to just jump in and have mindless fun.
The time factor is all a bit screwy, I'm not sure if the only reason train over time exists is because new type of game can do it, so lets use it because it is different. It has a mixture of things happening in real time and symbolic time, how long it would actually take and what is best for the game. Time Factor = How well you know the game but that multiplies by what your character can do. A massive advantage that they try to even out by making the higher skills take longer which works to some extent.. The concept that the character has to do everything on a ship, whatever size ship, yeah ok we want to keep the arcade side of things don't we ?
See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Wraymond Arji
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
12
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Posted - 2014.10.03 18:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Wraymond Arji wrote:[quote=Nevil Oscillator][quote=Wraymond Arji]
Honestly if it was any easier I wouldn't play it and would move on to whatever is the hardest thing to play. Some people like to just jump in and have mindless fun. The time factor is all a bit screwy, I'm not sure if the only reason train over time exists is because new type of game can do it, so lets use it because it is different. It has a mixture of things happening in real time and symbolic time, how long it would actually take and what is best for the game. Time Factor = How well you know the game but that multiplies by what your character can do. A massive advantage that they try to even out by making the higher skills take longer which works to some extent.. The concept that the character has to do everything on a ship, whatever size ship, yeah ok we want to keep the arcade side of things don't we ?
I don't and most vets don't from what I understand. If this was an arcade style game where you just jump in and go shoot stuff I would not be playing it. I need the challenges and build up and extreme things needed to be successful. A whole other level of complexity that makes the skill tree beautiful is navigating to the desired skills that will give you the best results in what you want to do int a timely manner. How you plan your training path, etc. It's another way that you can excel if done right, or fail miserably if done lazily. This is great IMO as those of us who put in the effort to plan and then stick to the plan are rewarded with achieving capabilities faster while those who just jump around training random skills without a plan take forever to get to a moderate level of usability. Those who put in the effort and planning SHOULD get the advantages IMO. |
Nevil Oscillator
7
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Posted - 2014.10.03 18:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Wraymond Arji wrote:[quote=Nevil Oscillator] Those who put in the effort and planning SHOULD get the advantages IMO. .
I'm not sure the existence of crew (Possibly as a module) that provide artificial skills would affect that, it would just provide an alternative route with disadvantages to having the skills yourself.
ISK can't buy everything but it can have a bloody good try is what I am thinking. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
481
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Posted - 2014.10.03 19:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Wraymond Arji wrote:[quote=Nevil Oscillator] Those who put in the effort and planning SHOULD get the advantages IMO. . I'm not sure the existence of crew (Possibly as a module) that provide artificial skills would affect that, it would just provide an alternative route with disadvantages to having the skills yourself. ISK can't buy everything but it can have a bloody good try is what I am thinking.
So you think this game should be pay to win? Having all purple should make you the best? That is not EVE WoW is down the hall and to right after the kindergarteners' bathrooms. |
Nevil Oscillator
7
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Posted - 2014.10.03 19:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:
So you think this game should be pay to win?
Depends what you mean by win but yes as far as I am aware ISK already has a fairly significant influence. You should be able to use ISK how you want, it is up to players to calculate the best way to spend it. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Nevil Oscillator
7
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Posted - 2014.10.03 20:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote: Having all purple should make you the best?
No, it just means you can afford a fleet of ships and people to fly them
See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Nevil Oscillator
7
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Posted - 2014.10.03 21:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:
That is not EVE WoW is down the hall and to right after the kindergarteners' bathrooms.
You can buy space ship crew in WoW ? See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
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Nevil Oscillator
7
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Posted - 2014.10.04 10:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
What I was suggesting isn't anyway near that drastic because you could have a required skills to use them that are most of the way towards having the skill yourself.
See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Nevil Oscillator
7
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Posted - 2014.10.05 15:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
Wraymond Arji wrote:Some people don't mind going out in stuff they can't fly well yet, but I prefer to go out in things I am almost max skilled in and enjoy having that edge.
Apologies fo posting this in so many sections but it is taking a while for me to think about all this. I think that what you have said is a bit of a contradiction. On the one hand you want to retain this character focus and have the edge but on the other you want to distance yourself from the arcade side of the game. I like the way people can jump in a ship, go out and have fun, I like the logistics and empire contro that you can aspire to. I like the way characters can be good at things to gain an advantage in their element. I'm not so keen on the idea that everything works like that. Eve is also a political game, it's not just about number crunching and optimizing. Your greatest asset might not be part of the game rules.
That's nothing, I killed a Megathron with a teaspoon. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5560
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Posted - 2014.10.05 17:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
nevil, when you want to keep talking and are the last poster in the thread,
edit that post instead of putting another. its the button next to quote. =]I[= |
Nevil Oscillator
7
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Posted - 2014.10.05 21:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:nevil, when you want to keep talking and are the last poster in the thread,
edit that post instead of putting another. its the button next to quote.
I will tighten my game up as I get used to it. J'Poll wrote: I don't like bald people. I prefer people with a lots of hair, preferably white. Nevil Oscillator wrote: Are the only black people Minmatar ? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5580
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:14:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:nevil, when you want to keep talking and are the last poster in the thread,
edit that post instead of putting another. its the button next to quote. I will tighten my game up as I get used to it. No problem, just a courtesy to the rest of us. =]I[= |
Wraymond Arji
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
15
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Posted - 2014.10.10 02:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Wraymond Arji wrote:Some people don't mind going out in stuff they can't fly well yet, but I prefer to go out in things I am almost max skilled in and enjoy having that edge. Apologies fo posting this in so many sections but it is taking a while for me to think about all this. I think that what you have said is a bit of a contradiction. On the one hand you want to retain this character focus and have the edge but on the other you want to distance yourself from the arcade side of the game. I like the way people can jump in a ship, go out and have fun, I like the logistics and empire contro that you can aspire to. I like the way characters can be good at things to gain an advantage in their element. I'm not so keen on the idea that everything works like that. Eve is also a political game, it's not just about number crunching and optimizing. Your greatest asset might not be part of the game rules.
It's not a contradiction. In other words, I wait patiently while doing other fun things in eve, until the skills for a certain ship with a certain fit are almost maxed out before taking it into pvp. It's a sacrifice as not being able to pvp right away. But on the other hand, it is not because there are so many things to do in eve. Other people don't mind going out with lower skills and that is their choice. I like that they do, because it makes it that much easier for me to kill them when they are less capable. I like that gap and scale in skills training. If it didn't exist then it would be people in the same ship, same fit with same skills and the only deciding factor being who clicked where on screen more accurately, or faster, etc. There are a ton of game out there that run on that kind of twitch gaming and eve is intentionally not one of them. Many people choose eve because of this difference. Trying to make it easier for new players to skip skills or get other advantages to more quickly get up to par with skills promotes advancement of people that are more lazy than before. It attracts the wrong kind of people and creates the undesired atmosphere that most existing people who make EVE home intend to avoid all together. |
Nevil Oscillator
10
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Posted - 2014.10.10 07:50:00 -
[57] - Quote
Wraymond Arji wrote:
Trying to make it easier for new players to skip skills or get other advantages to more quickly get up to par with skills promotes advancement of people that are more lazy than before.
I'm not sure it would make things easier as such, it's about having the right ship and equipment for the situation, if they don't know what ship to use then having crew for it is just going to help them lose a more expensive ship than they would otherwise be able to fly. But on the plus side, it could give them the ability to test drive equipment to see if they want to train that skill or a different one. Due to the disadvantage they might perform similar to an NPC ship, and we all know how many of those some AI somewhere can afford to lose. Always remember that mining is a big fat yorkie eating working mans environment. Not for Girls As for Distribution |
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
27
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Posted - 2014.10.13 18:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:The concept sounds nice, but how could it be implemented in an engaging way?
If it's just a flat, fixed stats bonus, it kind of overlaps with implants, links, even faction/deadspace/officer modules if you think about it. All stuff that gives you some +X% performance for a price and/or additional effort and/or risk.
If it's a stat bonus that increases over time:
- If it's some kind of 'XP', it could easily become a tedious grind: 'I'll repeatedly shoot my corpmate while he reps, so my crew become better shooters and his crew become better reppers'.
Did you have some implementation concept in mind? - If it's just real time, it's not so much about survival, it's more like 'buy ship and crew, leave ship in station for a couple of months, undock with Corpses'
Aren't time-based bonuses already covered by combat boosters though? |
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