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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
69
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Posted - 2014.08.07 18:38:00 -
[181] - Quote
I like more wandering wormholes. I don't like the frig holes however, because they break the game's (former) design completely.
Can we please get a number on those frigate holes? How many are there going to be? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
383
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 18:48:00 -
[182] - Quote
Can you explain your basis for a wh that regenerates mass and can't be closed? If you make a large and frigate only wh - why the need to regenerate? How many frigates does it take to collapse a 2 bil wh? My concern is where regeneration will go to. Is this the foot in the door to mass regeneration of other wh? Wh stabalizers?
For you pod swap guys.... Really? I can't fly a frigate because my clone is too expensive? |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
610
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 18:58:00 -
[183] - Quote
Would you commit a billion isk clone to fly a t1 frigate? A t2 frigate? A destroyer? A Interdictor? How about a 500 mil isk clone? 200 mil isk clone?
Its a frigate, a destroyer.
We laugh at people who lose multi million isk clones while flying frigates and destroyers.
You want people to make the commitment to flying lightly armored ships that may explode in moments.. Then allow them to swap clones.
Else people will flat out say "no I can't I have 600 mil in my head".
Yaay!!!! |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
128
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 19:11:00 -
[184] - Quote
Possible concerns : siege concerns: These holes will make it very easy to get scouts into a siege hole. Podded people can get back int a sieged system easyly, attackers need to have a 16hour gatecamp to keep em out.
No frig pve content in w-space(except maybe c1-c2), so it is only for pvp'ers?
With the new-wspace effect 800dps taranis, here we come! |
XvXTeacherVxV
Dayman Industries
98
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 19:49:00 -
[185] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:XvXTeacherVxV wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone! This thread is for all of your feedback and discussion surrounding the increase in random wormhole spawning and introduction of the new small ship wormholes that we announced in our recently released dev blog. Fozzie, as far as I can tell all of these changes (including the other threads) are good if not great. To address people's pod worries, it would be nice if we could use rorquals to switch pods in wormholes. Maybe when the rorqual gets updated? Agreed, but there is a reason I (as well as others) have been asking for a pos module vs a rorqual. 1) the rorqual requires a pilot to operate and fly it 2) it overcomplicates the ship 3) No glorious killmail with pods in it. 4) Slower process. 5) the rorqual should be more than a pod swap ship. A cloneswap method should be available to wormhole space so that people won't freak about about losing.
On the other hand, some people already have rorquals in wormholes that are effectively useless with the new compression arrays. I sold one such hole, before the change was announced thankfully. To whoever was living in J160800 when that change was announced, lo siento. Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE |
Kynric
Sky Fighters
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 19:57:00 -
[186] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Would you commit a billion isk clone to fly a t1 frigate? A t2 frigate? A destroyer? A Interdictor? How about a 500 mil isk clone? 200 mil isk clone?
Yes, when the frigate is the best ship for the job. Clone swapping would be nice, but the lack of it won't stop me from flying small ships. |
Kynric
Sky Fighters
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 19:58:00 -
[187] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:Possible concerns : siege concerns: These holes will make it very easy to get scouts into a siege hole. Podded people can get back int a sieged system easyly, attackers need to have a 16hour gatecamp to keep em out.
No frig pve content in w-space(except maybe c1-c2), so it is only for pvp'ers?
With the new-wspace effect 800dps taranis, here we come!
Yes, sieges will be more interesting and there are new options for rescuing the defenders. These seem like good things. |
Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 20:08:00 -
[188] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Why not add these to nullsec->nullsec as well? Depending on how these are received once we release them in wormholes, we'll consider adding them elsewhere. The CSM has also requested that we consider adding them as HS-WH connections in the future to encourage newer players to dip their toes into WH space with cheap ships. I think both are good ideas but we'll start them off as WH exclusive and consider expansion from there.
CFC frig blobs in wspace that's awesome |
Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 20:09:00 -
[189] - Quote
1000 dps enyo i can't wait!!! |
Temba Ronin
296
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 20:10:00 -
[190] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Would you commit a billion isk clone to fly a t1 frigate? A t2 frigate? A destroyer? A Interdictor? How about a 500 mil isk clone? 200 mil isk clone?
Its a frigate, a destroyer.
We laugh at people who lose multi million isk clones while flying frigates and destroyers.
You want people to make the commitment to flying lightly armored ships that may explode in moments.. Then allow them to swap clones.
Else people will flat out say "no I can't I have 600 mil in my head".
Unless I am mistaken the second rule of EVE is don't fly what you can't afford to lose. The first rule is that no place is truly safe. Did you not understand these two rules when you bought your implants?
If you have expensive implants it's because you need them for their effect I hope, if you have them for bragging rights only then getting blown up could be very bad for you. If they are functional then they should have paid for themselves many times over by now.
The third rule of EVE is unless you are the biggest null sec alliance accept your role as prey and no whining, see rules one and two if you are still confused. The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players! |
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Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 20:12:00 -
[191] - Quote
COMPLETELY AGAINST the mass regen.
Come on, if we're using frigs, the hole has high mass, and low mass jump limit, so why regen, if you would prolly need 1000 frig jumps to roll it... don't help the blobfest even more.... |
Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 20:15:00 -
[192] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Jeff Kione wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Why not add these to nullsec->nullsec as well? Depending on how these are received once we release them in wormholes, we'll consider adding them elsewhere. The CSM has also requested that we consider adding them as HS-WH connections in the future to encourage newer players to dip their toes into WH space with cheap ships. I think both are good ideas but we'll start them off as WH exclusive and consider expansion from there. What is currently stopping newer players from dipping their toes into w-space? If they're not doing it now with cheap frigs they won't be doing it with the addition of these holes. Come on, now. ... Nice to know CCP is more bothered about new player retention than its current playing member base. Having a nigh unclosable WH in your chain that allows HICs, Ceptors, AFs and Dessies through, is going to mess up the smaller wormhole corps. Especially considering when you can amass the fleet on the other side of the hole before actually spawning it in the system in question. A group of 20 T2 frigs isnt that much of an issue when it comes to Capital escalations and the like, but tone that down to a group of T2 frigs in a lowclass wormhole that can easily mess up 3 battleships. Don't get me wrong, I love the thought of more PvP and more targets to bomb etc etc, but this new hole because "it encourages new players" is utter bull...
The main objective of these changes is basically to drown small corps for good. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
615
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 20:22:00 -
[193] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Would you commit a billion isk clone to fly a t1 frigate? A t2 frigate? A destroyer? A Interdictor? How about a 500 mil isk clone? 200 mil isk clone?
Its a frigate, a destroyer.
We laugh at people who lose multi million isk clones while flying frigates and destroyers.
You want people to make the commitment to flying lightly armored ships that may explode in moments.. Then allow them to swap clones.
Else people will flat out say "no I can't I have 600 mil in my head".
Unless I am mistaken the second rule of EVE is don't fly what you can't afford to lose. The first rule is that no place is truly safe. Did you not understand these two rules when you bought your implants? If you have expensive implants it's because you need them for their effect I hope, if you have them for bragging rights only then getting blown up could be very bad for you. If they are functional then they should have paid for themselves many times over by now. The third rule of EVE is unless you are the biggest null sec alliance accept your role as prey and no whining, see rules one and two if you are still confused.
I'll apply the logic.
Frig roam everybody.
Half of wormhole space would say. "Sorry applying rule #2. I can't afford to lose my hundreds of millions of isk clone to fly in a stupid fking frig roam using ccp's new frig holes because I have to fly to kspace, find a station, jump clone, fly back, enter wormhole, get into my friga... And you've decided not too because everybody in the wormhole has to do that".
Scheduling doesn't work because our entrances and exists are random. We may not have a viable kspace to jump clone, and join the roam.
That is less pew, and no fun.
Give wormholers the method for swapping their clones in holes and you will see more people committing themselves to smaller frig and dessy roams. Yaay!!!! |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
789
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 20:54:00 -
[194] - Quote
I loves me some frigates, so I like the idea of small WHs that only allow small ships to pass, though I still wonder a bit about viability.
On the PvE side of things, I wouldn't mind some sites that only small ships can enter, so you can do some sleeper killing without bringing out your cruisers.
More importantly for this discussion, though. I wonder a bit about the viability of the frigates in PvP. Wolfpacks are great and all, and having more is fun, but I tend to find that getting into a fight with the inhabitants of a system happens far more often than running into another roving gang and having it out with them. The problem with this is that while the aggressors through the new wormholes will be in small ships, the defenders are free to bring anything they want, and I don't expect the small ships to have the numerical advantage they do in 0.0 roams since WH pilots tend to come out in force (sure the occasional idiot miner or negligent PI hauler will get mauled, but that's not really a coordinated defense), so I would expect a WH wolfpack to run into a somewhat equal number of cruisers which can be fitted to wreck the frigates.
I do support the suggestions for the ability to swap clones in deep, space though. |
Susitna
Negative Density No Response
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 21:12:00 -
[195] - Quote
Sounds good. More contact is welcome. How about a new type of random hole from j, null, or low to J. Have them have a much higher chance to open to a J system that has activity - NPC kills and or escalations. Put the 162 side in the active hole and it should not show on Dscan until someone jumps in. Add risk to farming.
I would prefer this risk over the mass based jump distance when rolling for new content. I am sure some would hate this and it could be a bit too much risk for PVE. But I like it |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
618
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 21:39:00 -
[196] - Quote
I'll bring this up because it needs to be said.
Should these uncloseable frig wormholes be able to have a anytype of kspace (in this case, nullsec) connection?
We are not talking about any type of newbie friendly activity here, and the main concern is a flood of hundreds and hundreds of frigates wadding down a wormhole corp.
Should these be able to connect to nullsec? Because currently, they can. Yaay!!!! |
Temba Ronin
296
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 21:42:00 -
[197] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Temba Ronin wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Would you commit a billion isk clone to fly a t1 frigate? A t2 frigate? A destroyer? A Interdictor? How about a 500 mil isk clone? 200 mil isk clone?
Its a frigate, a destroyer.
We laugh at people who lose multi million isk clones while flying frigates and destroyers.
You want people to make the commitment to flying lightly armored ships that may explode in moments.. Then allow them to swap clones.
Else people will flat out say "no I can't I have 600 mil in my head".
Unless I am mistaken the second rule of EVE is don't fly what you can't afford to lose. The first rule is that no place is truly safe. Did you not understand these two rules when you bought your implants? If you have expensive implants it's because you need them for their effect I hope, if you have them for bragging rights only then getting blown up could be very bad for you. If they are functional then they should have paid for themselves many times over by now. The third rule of EVE is unless you are the biggest null sec alliance accept your role as prey and no whining, see rules one and two if you are still confused. I'll apply the logic. Frig roam everybody. Half of wormhole space would say. "Sorry applying rule #2. I can't afford to lose my hundreds of millions of isk clone to fly in a stupid fking frig roam using ccp's new frig holes because I have to fly to kspace, find a station, jump clone, fly back, enter wormhole, get into my friga... And you've decided not too because everybody in the wormhole has to do that". Scheduling doesn't work because our entrances and exists are random. We may not have a viable kspace to jump clone, and join the roam. That is less pew, and no fun. Give wormholers the method for swapping their clones in holes and you will see more people committing themselves to smaller frig and dessy roams. So what is your point?
Everybody knows life in a wormhole is not for the faint of heart or of mind. You have to have the guts and the brains to understand the habitat and succeed.
Do not risk your implants by not roaming , cool, just do not whine about it. Lots of visitors to wormholes swap clones before going in, you freely choose to live there deal with it.
I think CCP needs to sweeten the pot for wormhole residents, as in more reward for the more risk they are opening. Just saving your expensive implants is not nearly going to sustain small corps when medium to massive frig roams become frequent occurrences, in my humble opinion. The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players! |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
618
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 22:02:00 -
[198] - Quote
The point is wormhole space never revolved around frigates. It has always been cruisers , t3's and battlecruisers maxed out for survival.
Frigate play is an entirely new meta. You want to make wormholers play, you have to give them a way to swap out their heads because of the new meta.
(This isn't something like a flavor of the month, CCP wants entirely new gameplay in total. Smaller ships Faster ships Cheaper ships
Wormholers have revolved around the meta of t3's and support for them.
Highsec, lowsec, nullsec has no issues at all with this because they have both the stations and the facilities to change everything at a moments notice.
I want people to play with implants in their head, but people are not that risk adverse to risk more than 50 to 100 million isk of implants in a frigate and/or destroyer with the ehp of wet toilet paper.
I cannot contemplate why I would put on the field my pilot in a interceptor or assault frigate fit at around 50 million isk, when I have a billion isk clone. And the only way to fix that issue and for me to commit something more appropriate to the ship I am flying is to find a space station (goodluck with these holes only having a capable nullsec), that I can dock at, then jump clones (probably halfway across the galaxy) then make my way back in anytype of acceptable timeframe.
I live in wormholes, let me store my clone in wormholes. And if I get sieged and evicted, I can kiss all my clones in my wormhole goodbye.
Because I can't see how the hell I'm going to get them out before someone blows up the pos.
Risk is already there. Reward, blow up my pos.
Heck I wish I could blow up the space station you keep your pod in. Yaay!!!! |
Temba Ronin
296
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 22:18:00 -
[199] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:The point is wormhole space never revolved around frigates. It has always been cruisers , t3's and battlecruisers maxed out for survival.
Frigate play is an entirely new meta. You want to make wormholers play, you have to give them a way to swap out their heads because of the new meta.
(This isn't something like a flavor of the month, CCP wants entirely new gameplay in total. Smaller ships Faster ships Cheaper ships
Wormholers have revolved around the meta of t3's and support for them.
Highsec, lowsec, nullsec has no issues at all with this because they have both the stations and the facilities to change everything at a moments notice.
I want people to play with implants in their head, but people are not that risk adverse to risk more than 50 to 100 million isk of implants in a frigate and/or destroyer with the ehp of wet toilet paper.
I cannot contemplate why I would put on the field my pilot in a interceptor or assault frigate fit at around 50 million isk, when I have a billion isk clone. And the only way to fix that issue and for me to commit something more appropriate to the ship I am flying is to find a space station (goodluck with these holes only having a capable nullsec), that I can dock at, then jump clones (probably halfway across the galaxy) then make my way back in anytype of acceptable timeframe.
I live in wormholes, let me store my clone in wormholes. And if I get sieged and evicted, I can kiss all my clones in my wormhole goodbye.
Because I can't see how the hell I'm going to get them out before someone blows up the pos.
Risk is already there. Reward, blow up my pos.
Heck I wish I could blow up the space station you keep your pod in.
You present a good case sir!
I want CCP to be true to their "Risk Vs. Reward" mantra. They need to keep it economically feasible to run a small corp in a wormhole without going broke. I see a lot of potential more risk, still waiting to see the reward side for small corps that already inhabit wormhole space. The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players! |
MiltGyver
Bacon ISKorporated
34
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 22:50:00 -
[200] - Quote
I don't like the sound of this. Wspace has always been about the unknown, exploring, the getting lost, the mystery, the survival, nomad life style, etc. That's what made it interesting as content for me. This idea here seems completely random and against all that was exciting about Wspace. If you're going through with it I'd say add these holes as anomalies rather than sigs. Or ****, you might as well put stargates in, since they regen and since since there will be so many cross connections. For me this pretty much removes Wspace as interesting content from the game. Making more of the same, just more of a pain the ass. |
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The Feuror
Release the Hounds
58
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 23:32:00 -
[201] - Quote
Although I'm all about change and trying to make the game different or "better" can we focus on things that are broken or missing in WH space before we start worrying about being able to have frig fights?
Maybe give different Effects different bonuses to small ship modules like in the wolf rayet. for example:
Pulsar - Small shield booster bonus and/or Rocket/Light missle dmg. RoF or range increase Black Hole - Tracking speed bonus or small turret dmg bonus Wolf Rayet - kinda rocks for small ships already I would leave this one alone Magnatar - 1mn MWD/AB speed bonus or cap reduction
Just spit balling these ideas but i think having holes with different effects for small ships vs. having new holes as a whole would be better and more rounded.
#Cloneswap2014 ^ probably a troll. |
Bibosikus
Flowery Twats
191
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 23:50:00 -
[202] - Quote
Multi-bubble Hictors loaded with Mobile Depots..
Taking their time to refit pointy-wise while the inties have nailed the targets..
Love it :) Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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Daenika
MMO-Mechanics.com
137
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 00:05:00 -
[203] - Quote
Quote:Unless I am mistaken the second rule of EVE is don't fly what you can't afford to lose. The first rule is that no place is truly safe. Did you not understand these two rules when you bought your implants?
There's a difference between between being able to afford to lose them (and being resigned to the fact that that may happen some day), and recklessly dumping those implants into situations where loss is extremely likely. Risk/reward calculations are a thing. If I have a billion isk in my head (I don't, but if I did), the risk part of the equation for a frigate roam just went way up, while reward stayed the same. As a result, I'm much less likely to engage in such a roam.
Give me a way to mitigate the risk of loss of those crazy expensive implants (even if I'm still risking my cheaper implants and my frigate), and the likelihood of me engaging in such activity goes up considerable. |
Eviscerator Void
Chaos State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 01:15:00 -
[204] - Quote
I feel like wormhole life should feel like living in deep deep space. Isolated and hard to get to. You have to plan ahead and be very careful with your logistics to live there. Of course there's pvp but I don't feel like that's the defining aspect or biggest challenge of wspace.
I don't see how increasing connectivity will improve pvp. Those hunting will be hunting and those evading (logistics) will be evading. Whether you go through this k162 or that one makes no difference.
What it will do is make logistics of living in wspace much easier. So it actually ends up being less risk for the same reward. So I feel like these changes are misguided.
Being a fan of small ships I like the concept of frig/dessie holes. However I think we should actually trade a certain number of larger holes for these. DECREASING access will make the holes that do pop up bottlenecks and that will definitely drive pvp up as corps will fight over access.
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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
69
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 02:41:00 -
[205] - Quote
IMO EVE needs more incentives for people to fly BS and BC class... not frigs. This change just will mean more annoying huge frig blobs, but won't do anything to increase the amount of GFs people have in WH space. |
Kirasten
No Vacancies
29
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 03:51:00 -
[206] - Quote
Snakes-On-A-Plane wrote:I feel like I should point out that a mobile depot allows access to infinitely sized Hictor combat fleets. 2000 Phobos (Phobi?) could come through a hole and refit to 100% guns. A much more powerful force than frigates alone.
I'm not sure if that's a problem, since it would take time to move that way and it would be a slow force. It'd also have a weak point in that any logi support would be frigates only. But I thought it might be worth mentioning.
This is something I am failing to get. People see no problem with a dictor going through, but somehow a heavy dictor might change the game? These holes don't open into some frigate only wormhole. You are going to find cruisers and hics and whatever else on the other side when you get there.
Additionally, if a hic refits to weapons after they jump through, they have now cut off their own escape route.
I don't see this as an issue. |
Zweruga Xronys
Peacefull Fortress
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 04:07:00 -
[207] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:IF CCP can create a pos module for clone "swapping".. this is easily a 10/10.
If they cannot, this is a 1/10.
Not necessarily module pos, it can be Rorqular. Need only allow transfer of it clone to any point of space. it will be a better development of functionality of Rorqular. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
346
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 04:47:00 -
[208] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone! This thread is for all of your feedback and discussion surrounding the increase in random wormhole spawning and introduction of the new small ship wormholes that we announced in our recently released dev blog.
Dunno if this has already been answered but are you talking about some new wormhole systems themselves where the only incoming/outgoing connections are this new low-mass/jump type or are you specifically creating new connections only? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
346
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 04:49:00 -
[209] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:IMO EVE needs more incentives for people to fly BS and BC class... not frigs. This change just will mean more annoying huge frig blobs, but won't do anything to increase the amount of GFs people have in WH space.
Well really battleships are supposed to be wielded at a fleet/gang level only. Solo battleships are not really a "thing" or at least they're not meant to be. Vessels like the machariel and kronos if you will might be your exceptions but that's not really fair since they're of limited supply over the much more easily constructed t1 ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1703
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 07:39:00 -
[210] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Fozzie, please cancel the small ship wormhole idea until you have some new content deserving of this new connection.
There is no need/place for this given the current mechanics/content. This new low mass wormhole would be better suited as a gateway to a new class of wormhole designed for frigates.
Bump +1 |
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