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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
106
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Posted - 2014.09.17 13:45:00 -
[2221] - Quote
Unfortunately it became quiet in this thread, but guess most of the wormhole comunicty is mature enough to not just cry and repeat the same things again and again.
So far we as a small corp in a low-class wormhole have adapted to the changes, which means honestly less activity overall (including offlining towers so far) and some even ask if we shall abondon the wormhole completely, but with the remaining activity we can live as we have alts for playing in Hi and LowSec when we can't do anything interesting in the wormholes. Yes, we just sit there in CovOps and wait, because as a small Group we can not / don't want to watch 5+ wormholes at the same time, so we only do PvE stuff when we have max. 3 wormholes. And we as well don't want to scann 2 hours of our online timer for scanning down the whole chain and finding most of the time nothing or people hiding behind POS / Cloaks as soon as a new signature pops up. Yes a lot of people became more paranoid is what I tend to see. And PvP Stuff has become less, even those daytrippers from HiSec are less than before as a lot of low-class (C1-C3) wormholes are full of anomalies and signatures, doesn't matter if there are online Towers or in many cases no online towers at all.
We even had killed some ships due to the new wormhole-mass-based-spawndistance Thing, because they just had no Chance. But it was just camping some Hi-Sec Exits in corresponding ships (insta-lock+some dps). But that was not funny, more a waste of time due to be bored like hell in our home-wh. It's even more boring than a Gate camp of a well frequented K-Space-Jumpgate. Will not continue that stuff and I am sure most of the killed guys will not get back to wormholes if that was their first step into the wormholes. I'm quite sure It's defenitely not the Kind of conflict WH comunity is looking for, because in that case we would live in k-space. And on weekend we found a wormhole with an exit just 2 jumps from Jita and in some hours we had not even one visitor, even though there have been probes nearly all the time in the hi-sec System (yes they changed ;) ). That's not common compared to what I have seen the last 2 years!
Rei Moon wrote:Meh. Rolling for isk takes too much time... 1) Aren't we supposed to make isk to buy ships and lose them in a blaze of glory? 2) Now we'll be so poor, we'll have to pew in fw frigs ;)
1) No! We are supposed to earn less ISK and pay more USD/EUR, i.e. buying more Plex and founding our ships to loose that way. CCP is on a good way to pay to win at the moment. Now you may wonder, why they want to see more People in 0.0 doing PvE. That's just the first step of a bigger plan they have for I don't know mid-term or long-term future and the majority of non-0.0-players are probably not aware of. I as well just heared more or less a small piece of Information, because I just don't care about 0.0.
2) Not according to CCP, but that's the back door they leave intentionally or not open for those who just don't buy Plex with real money maybe, so they can at least fight in frigs. But I think that was not the Point of the frig wormholes. They were 99% designed for a specific 0.0 block maybe?!?
I at least would appreciate to read in this thread sooner or later from a Dev what their conclusion is some weeks after releasing the patch. Do they just read and ignore (which seems to be the case) or do they plan some changes on the wormhole-patches? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
473
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Posted - 2014.09.17 17:01:00 -
[2222] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I don't think you're gonna get a rollback so you shouldn't waste your time asking for one.
I don't think your risk evaluation is remotely correct if we're talking about rolling a c5. Pre hyperion, when were you ever at risk rolling a fresh hole? ...assuming you had no hostile holes already in your system and there wasn't a t3 fleet with cap support waiting for you on the hole.
If we were unsure if a carrier trap had been set, we would simply jump the orca first to see the hole reduced. Granted the orca would probably die but at least the carrier was safe. This is just one of the many things you could do to mitigate the risk.
So you're pointing out I wasn't at risk rolling a wh, but then putting the following disclaimers: 1. fresh wh 2. no other hostile wh in your system 3. there wasn't a t3 w/ cap support waiting on the other side
Um... ok you're right and I'm wrong????
(I put on my Captain Obvious costume)
You are safe when you are not in danger.
(I bow to the crowed after awakening them to this astonishing fact)
I'm not going to argue back and forth. I'll summarize my thoughts and leave it at that. Pre hyperion rolling mechanics where fine and created many many fine fights. It's one of the foundations of wh living that made it a great place to play space pilots in space. Now we're on page 90 something of the second thread that proclaims the change is teh suxors. We can't all be wrong. I choose to not accept what is bad. I choose to not attempt to meet a bad change half way with some screwy compromise. It wasn't needed. It wasn't wanted. It sux. Get rid of it. That's pretty much all there is to say about it. |
Enthropic
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
153
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Posted - 2014.09.17 18:58:00 -
[2223] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote: It wasn't needed. It wasn't wanted. It sux. Get rid of it.
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Tiger Tesla
Periphery Bound Dominatus Atrum Mortis
41
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Posted - 2014.09.17 20:09:00 -
[2224] - Quote
Enthropic wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote: It wasn't needed. It wasn't wanted. It sux. Get rid of it.
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
204
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Posted - 2014.09.17 21:03:00 -
[2225] - Quote
Fozzie releases a devblog touting their wonderful job with burner missions, and not a peep about wormholes, nor any recent DEV responses that are constructive.
CCP wants us to post constructive feedback? Fine. But you also have to post something constructive; something other than "we are watching" because that is not constructive either. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1220
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Posted - 2014.09.17 23:53:00 -
[2226] - Quote
Tiger Tesla wrote:Enthropic wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote: It wasn't needed. It wasn't wanted. It sux. Get rid of it.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Scrubnbubble
Danneskjold Shipping Chained Reactions
13
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Posted - 2014.09.18 00:56:00 -
[2227] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Tiger Tesla wrote:Enthropic wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote: It wasn't needed. It wasn't wanted. It sux. Get rid of it.
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God Arthie
Steel and Strong Wormhole Holders
9
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Posted - 2014.09.18 07:39:00 -
[2228] - Quote
Scrubnbubble wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Tiger Tesla wrote:Enthropic wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote: It wasn't needed. It wasn't wanted. It sux. Get rid of it.
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Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
138
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Posted - 2014.09.18 08:59:00 -
[2229] - Quote
Scrubnbubble wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Tiger Tesla wrote:Enthropic wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote: It wasn't needed. It wasn't wanted. It sux. Get rid of it. "You can only quote 5 times in a single post." Damnit! |
LastRound
The Not Elite Four
3
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Posted - 2014.09.18 15:15:00 -
[2230] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote: "You can only quote 5 times in a single post." Damnit!
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Scrubnbubble
Danneskjold Shipping Chained Reactions
15
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Posted - 2014.09.18 17:01:00 -
[2231] - Quote
LastRound wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote: "You can only quote 5 times in a single post." Damnit!
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Tiger Tesla
Periphery Bound Dominatus Atrum Mortis
44
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Posted - 2014.09.20 16:38:00 -
[2232] - Quote
I really wish that CCP would acknowledge the wormhole community with something. It has been over two weeks since Fozzie has said anything to the wormhole community, and in that time he has made 11 posts in the features and ideas section to work on the next update.
CCP Fozzie, please don't simply move on to the next update. There is a tight nit community that wants to know what CCP thinks about how the changes are effecting wormhole life. And the last thing you said to us is that we are not being ignored. I hope that the summit will help shed light on how these changes affect active wormholers.
The main problem isn't even the changes, it is how the community has been treated. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
69
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Posted - 2014.09.20 16:57:00 -
[2233] - Quote
Are you guys seriously still going on about this? :D
This change was just fine, and accomplished exactly what CCP intended- making farmers less willing to seal their farmholes.
Everyone else is unaffected.
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Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
64
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Posted - 2014.09.21 03:03:00 -
[2234] - Quote
Everybody who is still in wormhole space is farming. Even more now since less people are rage rolling. |
Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
64
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 03:04:00 -
[2235] - Quote
One thing is certain Hyperion didn't bring more people into wspace. A few bears maybe. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1227
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 22:24:00 -
[2236] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Are you guys seriously still going on about this? :D
This change was just fine, and accomplished exactly what CCP intended- making farmers less willing to seal their farmholes.
Everyone else is unaffected.
i am really quite impressed, it takes a real capacity for someone to entirely missunderstand every single argument, point and effect. After over 130 combined pages. Glad you are ok, but you don't actually have any experience of living in a wormhole? Do you? Because if you do I will be even more impressed with your abilities to remain so disconnected from reality.
Never mind, hey? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
59
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Posted - 2014.09.21 23:56:00 -
[2237] - Quote
lol i would be a bad csm..
CCP would kick me out of the game...i will restate my thoughts b4
Quote: I think enough has been said that CCP knows we do not Like One of the changes and its hurting our space. Now it is just a matter of seeing if they care enough to back up a few changes or make more constructive changes to Pull Players back into w space.
Here are a few of my ideas.
1. Sleepers faction Drops= this will Give us officer / faction drops same as other space and will drive ppl into whs to hunt for them.
2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections
3. Make lower class wh sleeper drops better and more worth while to run. this is class 1-3 also let make a few more of the triggers random to take out the boring predictable assembly line style of running sights. Maybe give them some escalations as well if you warp in bs's or caps for all class sites
That is all i have for now but a few constructive ideas for you to look over Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
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Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
154
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Posted - 2014.09.22 08:41:00 -
[2238] - Quote
Quote: 2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections So basically a faster way for the big corps to seed caps into someone's system? Hmm... I'm sure Lazerhawks would love that. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
72
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Posted - 2014.09.22 13:04:00 -
[2239] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote: i am really quite impressed, it takes a real capacity for someone to entirely missunderstand every single argument, point and effect. After over 130 combined pages. Glad you are ok, but you don't actually have any experience of living in a wormhole? Do you? Because if you do I will be even more impressed with your abilities to remain so disconnected from reality. And just moving into a C4 since hyperion does not count as experienced.
I've lived in C2>C3+HS, C2>C2+LS, C3>LS, C4>C3, C5>C3, C5>C5 in addition to the current C4>C4+C2 starting from early 2011, which was approx 2.5 years before your character was created.
I've sieged, been sieged, flown in the headline-making biggest blobs of w-space, FCd, soloed, farmed and lead a wh corp. I sure as hell do have ******* "experience" and I've literally had it with the current whiney-ass mentality on this sad excuse of a subforum.
This mass-spawn whine is the just the most ridiculous recent example of the mentality. No, it did not "kill w-space" or even radically changed it, if you are unhappy about it just pack your toys and go back to Rescuing the Damsel and do us all a favour- shut the **** up.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
819
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Posted - 2014.09.22 13:16:00 -
[2240] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote: or even radically changed it
Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the rest of your points this is just wrong - it has radically shifted the balance in the possibilities for smaller entities to manipulate the wormhole terrain to have half a chance when faced with a larger entity. |
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8275
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Posted - 2014.09.22 15:10:00 -
[2241] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: I want to remind people that the best way to have your views heard is to state your case calmly, politely and with logical reasoning.
You must be new here
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Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
74
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Posted - 2014.09.22 15:44:00 -
[2242] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Aiyshimin wrote: or even radically changed it Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the rest of your points this is just wrong - it has radically shifted the balance in the possibilities for smaller entities to manipulate the wormhole terrain to have half a chance when faced with a larger entity. Which has a fairly sizeable knock on effect - should see the number of people who open into us and go "nope" and log off because they assume rightly or wrongly any attempt to collapse would result in a one sided loss of ships. I've also noticed since these changes have come in that increasingly people in the alliance - even more than in the past - are resorting to hunting for targets in nullsec, its probably made things safer for people who have isolated themselves in w-space and/or don't have lots of active connections than ever before.
I don't argue that what you describe wouldn't be happening, but I disagree about it being a "radical change" of a grand scale. Based on my personal experience as part of a smaller entity in C5 space, opening into a bigger entity was an extremely rare occurence.
And I hope you also agree that going "nope" and logging off has a lot to do with attitude. Why not see if they can get a few kills? This I don't understand.
Don't have lots of active connections? Amount of wormholes are increased massively, or is that not the case in C5s? Dual-static space at least is littered with open connections. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
820
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Posted - 2014.09.22 17:23:00 -
[2243] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote: Don't have lots of active connections? Amount of wormholes are increased massively, or is that not the case in C5s? Dual-static space at least is littered with open connections.
As with most things concerning wormhole spawns, etc. some days you'll have very limited connectivity, if you close your static on those days and bear or whatever your now as a generalisation safer than ever as there are less people bothering to chain collapse to find stuff to shoot at - people seem to be more inclined to use null connections more than ever to find stuff to pew rather than spend ages mapping the more complex chains or rolling the static with the extra effort involved.
As for attitude its a mixed one - we had blue-fire connect to us the other day and they still went for it despite having 4 people online and us having several times that but thats more of an exception than a rule - most people with 3-4 people online opened to someone with 20 active pilots will feel quite limited in what they can do without it being outright suicide whether that is trying to collapse the link or finding stuff to do further down the chain. In the past they could with moderate and proportionally manageable risk collapse the link and try and find something they were more suited to engaging (or just go back to bearing). |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
496
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 17:42:00 -
[2244] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Are you guys seriously still going on about this? :D
This change was just fine, and accomplished exactly what CCP intended- making farmers less willing to seal their farmholes.
Everyone else is unaffected.
PVP yesterday. Engagement focussed around our carrier and sleip fleet vs their carrier and T3 fleet.
Long story short - pre hyperion we would have dropped our carrier into their wh and punched above our weight class for a bit. Maybe winning maybe losing, but at least we would have been fighting. Post hyperion we both swapped going into the others home wh w/ our subcaps and jumping back to stay alive. Neither side commited a capital because it would have been thrown away to the opposing fleet.
As it was we lost a sleipnir to bumping and webs. Had we put a carrier in it would have been taken by their to the dreads they put on the wh. Had they put a cap into us we would have reshiped to dreads and killed it.
So when you mean unaffected you are wrong. We had a slap fight but didn't escallate because it would have just been throwing a carrier away. This is the new norm. It's a big change. It's a bad one. Unless you have overwheling force you end up hole hugging under the shadow of your carrier. It was like hugging a HS wh except instead of concord having your back in HS it's your carrier having your back in your home c5.
We deffo didn't have enough personell to take down 2 dreads, a carrier and 5 or so assorted T3. The felt they didn't have enough to commit in our hole either. Mass/range induced standoff. It sucked.
We both gave the subcaps across the wh a go, saw it was futile and withdrew. Personally I went afk and took my wife out to dinner, one guy went to work, and another guy went for a run. This change sux! |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1229
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 19:24:00 -
[2245] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote: i am really quite impressed, it takes a real capacity for someone to entirely missunderstand every single argument, point and effect. After over 130 combined pages. Glad you are ok, but you don't actually have any experience of living in a wormhole? Do you? Because if you do I will be even more impressed with your abilities to remain so disconnected from reality. And just moving into a C4 since hyperion does not count as experienced.
I've lived in C2>C3+HS, C2>C2+LS, C3>LS, C4>C3, C5>C3, C5>C5 in addition to the current C4>C4+C2 starting from early 2011, which was approx 2.5 years before your character was created. I've sieged, been sieged, flown in the headline-making biggest blobs of w-space, FCd, soloed, farmed and lead a wh corp. I sure as hell do have ******* "experience" and I've literally had it with the current whiney-ass mentality on this sad excuse of a subforum. This mass-spawn whine is the just the most ridiculous recent example of the mentality. No, it did not "kill w-space" or even radically changed it, if you are unhappy about it just pack your toys and go back to Rescuing the Damsel and do us all a favour- shut the **** up.
No, suprisingly I do not agree with you, go figure?
If you do not like hearing other peoples view of hyperion, go spin on a pos or something. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Scrubnbubble
Danneskjold Shipping Chained Reactions
20
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Posted - 2014.09.22 21:14:00 -
[2246] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Quote: 2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections So basically a faster way for the big corps to seed caps into someone's system? Hmm... I'm sure Lazerhawks would love that.
Lazerhawks scare me |
Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
59
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Posted - 2014.09.23 01:02:00 -
[2247] - Quote
there would actually be no reason to seed caps in there as no one would live in a c7 as there is no moons and the mass is large enough to just move caps around Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
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Scrubnbubble
Danneskjold Shipping Chained Reactions
20
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Posted - 2014.09.23 01:46:00 -
[2248] - Quote
How about a C7 that you can easily fit titans through, and then the last escalation is a huge drone base like the ones you find the wrecks of in missions. It requires multiple titans and doomsday devices to take down. I'm thinking.... something along the lines of a huge base with sleepers spewing out of it, like a scene from the matrix. A place where titans go to die... pve wise.
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Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
59
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Posted - 2014.09.23 02:34:00 -
[2249] - Quote
that would be interesting to say the least.. Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
501
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 02:37:00 -
[2250] - Quote
Folks would just log of their farming caps/fleet. The guy w/ the most stuff gets more stuff. TBH AU would have the advantage due to TZ and it would get less appealing as the earth spins passed down time.
You want a wh c7 make it a wandering wh w/ no statick. 8 bil mass, no sites and no moons. Or maybe a random static. Name the system king of the hill.
If you want titan gameplay and free isk... spoon up w/ cfc. Introducing a c7 would just mean more isk for bigger groups. That's it, plain and simple.
If you're too big and too awesome for small gang wh stuff... Have some class like SYJ did and go to LS and play w/ your toys. I have a lot of respect for those guys going to where their game is played instead of trying to bend wh to their play style/needs. And.... they seem to be having fun/success. |
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