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Shelom Severasse
Elite Kombat Academy
17
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Posted - 2014.08.06 18:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
ill be able to fly amarr HACs in a relatively short amount of time
was wondering if the magnanimous forum community could walk me through whether the zealot or the sac is a better solo ship?
seems like the sac is better since it has better anti frig capabilities (space for a neut and drones), but, it uses missiles, which are gross lol
any input is appreciated (: |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
269
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Posted - 2014.08.06 19:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
100mn that Sac and go have some fun. BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
746
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Posted - 2014.08.06 19:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you don't have the Sac to solo, just go be another Zealot following orders.
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JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
268
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Posted - 2014.08.06 19:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
A few buddies of mine fit up kite Zealots for dunking frig gangs back in the day. Plenty of people use the Omen Navy Issue for that now.
Truthfully, the Zealot and the Sac' are fine ships whose only downside is being overshadowed in popularity by Ishtars. The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts. |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1079
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Posted - 2014.08.06 20:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
JAF Anders wrote:A few buddies of mine fit up kite Zealots for dunking frig gangs back in the day. Plenty of people use the Omen Navy Issue for that now.
Truthfully, the Zealot and the Sac' are fine ships whose only downside is being overshadowed in popularity by Ishtars.
Agreed. But to be fair I fought 2 Zealots a few weeks ago with my pve ishtar and forced both off the field with Curators. Didn't have a point so they warped out in hull.
Also, if your looking for solo Sac' fits, look up Feyd's blog. Can tell you from personal experience that his fit works. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov! |
Shelom Severasse
Elite Kombat Academy
17
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Posted - 2014.08.07 01:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
thanks for the replies brochachos, ill look up that fit and futz with eft some |
Jonas Staal
The Echo Initiative
67
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Posted - 2014.08.07 13:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Since the OP is pleased with the answers, and the Title is kind a fitting...
What other HACs are worth solo+ˇng in? I can fly them all, but with minor skills in missiles. Yet I have no clue how to, and which one :) |
Plato Forko
Forko Nanorobotics
83
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Posted - 2014.08.07 17:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
solo HAC on dscan is every small gang's wet dream, better hope you can do more than "be able to fly" one My terribad blog where I QQ and rage about Amarr FW |
Jonas Staal
The Echo Initiative
67
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Posted - 2014.08.07 17:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Before one can perform well, one has to learn.
And before I can start learning, I need to atleast know what ship I'd have to learn to fly xD.
However, any tips are always appriciated! |
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
269
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Posted - 2014.08.07 18:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rapid Light Missile Cerberus is also a dunk factory for a fistful of frigates. You can fit up a Vagabond pretty well for kiting, dragging out a fight into more bite-sized chunks.
Truthfully, there's a lot of work to do for the solo HAC meta. Accept that your opponent will call in all of his buddies when the fight starts. If you're watching a mark for more than a minute, his backup is probably already on its way. The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts. |
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
742
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Posted - 2014.08.07 19:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Neither, get a nomen. nom nom
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DJ FunkyBacon
Eve Radio Corporation
304
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Posted - 2014.08.08 03:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you want to go solo cruiser happy fun time, the Navy Omen is the way to go, and its overshadowed the Zealot as a fast kitey laser boat. IF you're determined to take your hac solo in lowsec, I'd go zealot, but you're just begging to die to a boosted frig gang. Once one of those spots you, I suggest you safe up and log for a few. CSM9 Factional Warfare/Lowsec Representative Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado. http://funkybacon.blogspot.com http://twitter.com/FunkyBacon |
Naoru Kozan
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
65
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Posted - 2014.08.08 06:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1 on get a NOMEN. Vexor Navy Issue is really good as well.
As for HACs...the Ishtar is king of the hill at the moment (great ship, but you will struggle to find fights in it).
Due to the dominance of frigates in lowsec and the tendency for them to fit tracking disruptors, kitey turret HACs will struggle in this enviroment.
RLML Cerberus could work well.
Deimos and Sac are both great brawlers (but the Deimos has a fearsome reputation, so if people are willing to engage it usually means a geddon or logi is sitting one jump out).
Munin is garbage. Vaga sort of works as a kiter or flimsy brawler.
Zealot is waaay to slow to kite in the current meta.
The Eagle can sort of work if you go for a massively tanked brawler fit and bait on gates (needs links + crystals etc etc).
Good luck! |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
745
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Posted - 2014.08.08 16:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
navy omen is a terrible one trick pony like slicer. only kills idiots. kind of like RLML anything, I guess.
maybe it's better in null where there are more idiots to feed on. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
301
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Posted - 2014.08.09 06:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Plato Forko wrote:solo HAC on dscan is every small gang's wet dream, better hope you can do more than "be able to fly" one
I can vouch for this everytime I'm in fleet. We practically giggle when we have a solo HAC tackled. |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
566
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Posted - 2014.08.09 17:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Naoru Kozan wrote:+1 on get a NOMEN. Vexor Navy Issue is really good as well.
As for HACs...the Ishtar is king of the hill at the moment (great ship, but you will struggle to find fights in it).
Due to the dominance of frigates in lowsec and the tendency for them to fit tracking disruptors, kitey turret HACs will struggle in this enviroment.
RLML Cerberus could work well.
Deimos and Sac are both great brawlers (but the Deimos has a fearsome reputation, so if people are willing to engage it usually means a geddon or logi is sitting one jump out).
Munin is garbage. Vaga sort of works as a kiter or flimsy brawler.
Zealot is waaay to slow to kite in the current meta.
The Eagle can sort of work if you go for a massively tanked brawler fit and bait on gates (needs links + crystals etc etc).
Good luck!
Xlasb vaga can tank pretty decent but the DPS sucks. |
xpl0de
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
31
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Posted - 2014.08.10 02:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
The vaga is still a great hac. My personal favorite apart from the Ishtar, which ofcourse rapes atm. You can still get pretty nice dps out of it while having tank quite a bit with lots of gtfo and good range. The sacrilege is excellent too but a little bulky. |
Denuo Secus
256
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Posted - 2014.08.11 08:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Why so few mentions of the blaster Deimos? It's fast, it's tanky and (most important) able to get rid of faster stuffs - which can hard tackle it - quickly. Just curious... |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
750
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Posted - 2014.08.11 13:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Denuo Secus wrote:Why so few mentions of the blaster Deimos? It's fast, it's tanky and (most important) able to get rid of faster stuffs - which can hard tackle it - quickly. Just curious...
brawling is too difficult for most people, they prefer idiot-proof kiting ships. |
Jonas Staal
The Echo Initiative
67
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Posted - 2014.08.11 13:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yet I'm sure theres people with that knowledge around here |
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Badman Lasermouse
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
8
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Posted - 2014.08.11 14:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote: brawling is too difficult for most people, they prefer idiot-proof kiting ships.
Straight brawling is for F1 monkeys. Go fly your Proteus somewhere else.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2014.08.11 17:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
Currently im having fun in an XLASB/LSE vaga fit with 220s. Its a tight fit, but is fast enough to kite most frigs (garm is tricky), dps is ok at 500+, or about 300-350 at max point range. Its been successful at killing frigs and sniper nados. If its scrammed though, game over. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
231
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Posted - 2014.08.12 16:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Currently im having fun in an XLASB/LSE vaga fit with 220s. Its a tight fit, but is fast enough to kite most frigs (garm is tricky), dps is ok at 500+, or about 300-350 at max point range. Its been successful at killing frigs and sniper nados. If its scrammed though, game over.
I don't think you can make a Vaga do that much damage with that fit. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
763
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Posted - 2014.08.13 18:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Denuo Secus wrote:Why so few mentions of the blaster Deimos? It's fast, it's tanky and (most important) able to get rid of faster stuffs - which can hard tackle it - quickly. Just curious... brawling is too difficult for most people, they prefer idiot-proof kiting ships.
Beagle brawler here brah.
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Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite CODE.
40
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Posted - 2014.08.21 07:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Denuo Secus wrote:Why so few mentions of the blaster Deimos? It's fast, it's tanky and (most important) able to get rid of faster stuffs - which can hard tackle it - quickly. Just curious...
See OP for clarification. Together we can make Highsec a better place! The Law of Highsec Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, live it! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1565
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Denuo Secus wrote:Why so few mentions of the blaster Deimos? It's fast, it's tanky and (most important) able to get rid of faster stuffs - which can hard tackle it - quickly. Just curious... brawling is too difficult for most people, they prefer idiot-proof kiting ships.
Brawling is the least skill intensive form of pvp. Approach, Activate tackle and Weapons, if your ship is better at tracking orbit very close. otherwise keep at range 2 km...
When things get ugly, get your logistic warp in and save you..
Sooo much skill... "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1203
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 15:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Denuo Secus wrote:Why so few mentions of the blaster Deimos? It's fast, it's tanky and (most important) able to get rid of faster stuffs - which can hard tackle it - quickly. Just curious... brawling is too difficult for most people, they prefer idiot-proof kiting ships. Brawling is the least skill intensive form of pvp. Approach, Activate tackle and Weapons, if your ship is better at tracking orbit very close. otherwise keep at range 2 km... When things get ugly, get your logistic warp in and save you.. Sooo much skill...
Filthy Caldari! Gallente brawler master race!
Or we could all just use drones because power creep. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov! |
lord xavier
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
32
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Denuo Secus wrote:Why so few mentions of the blaster Deimos? It's fast, it's tanky and (most important) able to get rid of faster stuffs - which can hard tackle it - quickly. Just curious... brawling is too difficult for most people, they prefer idiot-proof kiting ships. Brawling is the least skill intensive form of pvp. Approach, Activate tackle and Weapons, if your ship is better at tracking orbit very close. otherwise keep at range 2 km... When things get ugly, get your logistic warp in and save you..Sooo much skill... When was the last time you left high sec? I cant find the end of it on your killboard. Though, I like those wardecced marauder catches. Boy oh boy did those take much skill that no other people in game have. How many logi do you guys keep on the gate with you two or three? No losses in awhile so I am guessing that you guys have super pro scouts that let you know when a gang that actually wants to fight you is coming. Infact, why are you even in a solo-hac thread? You guys dont use an actual HAC setup. You are literally all instalock and pure DPS. You probably have never flown even flown an actual HAC as they are even meant to be. I am interested in your Zealot, ONI and Cyna fits you used last month. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
770
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
lol noir |
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
293
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
TD has gotten a lot of hate he doesn't deserve, especially when there's really no need to be upset.
First, let's set the coffee table up a little for the conversation. From a 'skill' standpoint, there's no difference in the oversimplification of 'keep at range 2k' vs. 'keep at range 20k'. The reality of the situation is that kiting produces the most lopsided of fights (where the victorious belligerent emerges nearly unscathed) while the vast majority of close shaves have come through brawling. One could tend to wonder why this is. I submit that kiting relies almost exclusively on the preponderance of position while brawling brings the lion's share of the pilot's skill points, planning, and situation awareness to bear.
Before we dig deep into the mechanics of a good, old-fashioned (and possibly intoxicated) brawl, let's take a quick look at what has to happen for a kiter to score another kill. The nimble Imperial Navy Slicer lends itself well as an example, with its optimal range bonus yielding great stopping power near the edge of 'point range' (roughly 24 km). While the venerable Slicer doesn't boast the highest base velocity among its frigate peers (a mere 350 m/s, in fact the lowest of the 'Navy' faction frigates and 15 m/s slower than the timeless Rifter), the Slicer's low-slot configuration allows the installation of a favorite component of kite ships, Nanofiber Internal Membrane II (from which the term 'nano' comes), in addition to a Damage Control and one or more Heatsinks. The addition of a Microwarpdrive (MWD) and Warp Disruptor in the ship's mid-power slots and the pilot's flavor of rigs complete the fit. The accumulation of these parts alongside skills and bonuses gives the Slicer great mobility and firepower at range. Once the Slicer pilot has settled into a comfortable orbit around a brawler, there's little that can be done to change the outcome of the fight.
I'd like to pitch the idea that the minimum amount of skill points needed to fly the Slicer well, then, is not necessarily all that high. Sure, you'll need some good navigation skills, but how much do you really need to keep those brawlers at bay? After all, you're using a Microwarpdrive(which gives a fixed 500% bonus to max velocity) and they're using Afterburners. Even the faster frigates with good skills and decent implants struggle to get much faster than 1500 m/s, while the hypothetical slowest speed of a Slicer with MWD fitted must go faster than that (350*5>1500) and observed Slicer velocities far exceed that amount. In addition, the entire array of skills related to tanking are unnecessary, as the Slicer is in a position to never be hit (preferably like meth: not even once). The only skills related to damage output are those needed for Tech II Pulse Lasers, since Scorch really isn't optional for application at range, in addition to a handful of gunnery support skills to make the other guy explode a little bit faster. Even this can be skirted around if you're not in a hurry.
In comparison, let's tackle the idea of what brawling actually entails. The primary element of the brawl is what's known as 'the DPS race", where you have to kill the other guy before he kills you. Every shot matters. Every maxed support skill is just giving you the chance to keep up -- you'll probably rely on module overloading in conjunction with a handful of implants to give you the edge you desperately need. Even if you've planned appropriately, your positioning in the fight is critical. At the heart of each damage profile is the range at which that damage is applied. The pilot who can steal a better tradeoff from a different relative position and has the ability and presence of mind to move there has a much more reliable chance of winning the fight. This means that maximum velocities and inertia modifiers come into play, even at speeds well below 1 km/s. At this point, the faster pilot can elect to establish a tighter orbit around his opponent, reducing the effectiveness of his opponent's turrets and giving himself another option to stay alive. All the while, the support skills for tanking in shield, armor, and hull all make themselves painfully obvious as each volley lands.
From this, it should be apparent that the key to success while kiting has more to do with target selection rather than accrued skill points. Even when the kiter makes a mistake, he can usually bail out of the fight before things get unmanageable. It takes a little more effort to sucker a kiter into an engagement he expects to win, then change the nature of the fight. Indeed, brawling may force even greater care in target selection, as he's committed to fighting whatever he gets in range of. The only possible recourse for the brawler to disengage is to trundle to the edge of overheated scram range before being overwhelmed. Even then, this option is only available to the faster of the two combatants.
Kiting is easier and less skill intensive than brawling and TD's said as much -- though perhaps in fewer words. It's more common for the most talented pilots to kite, this much my experience in QCATS has shown, if only because it's easier to bail when the other guy's backup arrives. If you ask, you might find that good pilots realize the obvious advantage that the decisive victory of kiting offers is a much more attractive alternative to having this tactic used on them to the same end.
The fear of 'getting kited' is reasonably prevalent even among newer pilots. This is not because it takes skill to kite, rather because it's not a fun experience. The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts. |
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