Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1469
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 05:00:00 -
[121] - Quote
KanashiiKami wrote: however me thinks if scout are now truly moulded as a stepping stone to VG, then CCP should think LP = ZERO, but ISK = 1.5x
To put things in comparison. 3.5 Mil isk is well, 3.5 mil isk. 400LP per site = 400k per site at average concord LP values. This isn't some crazy pirate faction LP, this is concord LP, it's hard to move at over 1k and requires bucket loads of tags, which last I knew the market was too high on to make a profit on the LP stores with them. (Tags in LP stores are a separate issue really and overly limit some LP items). So that 400 LP only adds another 11% or so value.
Doing these sites with 5 Marauders, which are not starting ships but high skill ships which cost more than pirate BS takes 10 minutes a site. That means 5-6 sites an hour (Remembering warp times between sites.) Even if we say 6 sites an hour, that means a massive..... 24 Million Isk/Hr per pilot including LP. Even if we somehow drop that to 5 Minutes per site, that's still only 48/Hour.
Pray tell where exactly this massive farming is going to occur? Null beats the pants off that isk rate, with far less value risked, and incursions are not constant, and can be contested, and if you have the bling to drop site times, you are at plenty of PvP risk also.
Quite simply, I can't see how these sites are going to be remotely worth it if 5 Marauders can only earn 24 Million/Hour including LP each. They need to go back to the drawing board on scout sites, and make them different somehow. Make them about small ships, say.... Cruiser Max. And make them reasonably Isk/Hr competitive. VG's I'd leave as is, since Vanguards often did have heavy elite troops in historical terms. Make Assaults BC max, and redesign all the sites to be about mobile BC fleets (Obviously HAC's, T3's & Logi's would still be involved) and ship speed combined with good tank. Fast strike in and back out somehow. Then you have most ship sizes involved in incursions, Frigates/Destroyers might still get left behind a little but Cruisers are highly accessible to a new player. |
Skyler Hawk
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 07:13:00 -
[122] - Quote
I was able to run a few Scout sites in a solo Paladin at 100% sansha influence (i.e. max system penalties) by MJDing off the warp-in point and sniping things as they approached. Each site took 25-30 minutes to complete, so I guess it'd be 5-6 minutes for a group of 5 using the same fit and tactic (maybe less because higher dps would more rapidly overcome the repping of some of the NPCs). However, it's hard to see what sort of player these sites are geared towards. If they're for newer players with less SP and less tricked-out ships, then they'd almost certainly need a lot more than 5-6 minutes per site because they wouldn't be using marauders and so would have trouble with ewar, worse dps, and much more fragile local tanks. Conversely, anyone who can fly a well-fit marauder could make far more ISK doing vanguards or HQs.
I also think the NPC mix was a bit off - there were a number of sniping NPCs that orbited at 120-140 km and others that orbited at 10-60 km, so you'd need a mix of snipers and short-ranged ships. Not a bad thing in and of itself, but it seems to be more organisation and a tighter fleet comp than you'd need for VGs, which is odd. I got around this by bringing a mobile depot and switching between tachs and mega pulses on the fly.
The Paladin fit was:
[Paladin, incursion scout] Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Large Micro Jump Drive Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script Sensor Booster II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Bastion Module I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x10 |
Sean Sonnach
Tain Bo Cuailnge
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 08:04:00 -
[123] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:@CCP FoxFour
You should be nerfing HS Incursions to the point where the avg. isk/hour is bellow that of 0.0 Instead of giving them even more ISK at no RISK. If you need me to list 30 reasons why HS Incursions should not make as much as 0.0 let me know.
Mara Tessidar wrote:Remove incursions from highsec or make them less profitable than being in nullsec/lowsec/wormhole space.
Thick as two short planks.
Incursions spawn in HS/LS/Null - so improving incursions makes null sec more profitable than HS if you have the balls to run them there.
The difference between incursions and most other PVE phew is it really makes people play in fleets, which is one of the best aspects of PVE in the game. Not everyone wants to be a null bear, alone in an empty back end system, ratting risk free 99% of the time, after the first hour of running to cover your hull cost.
These seem like very positive steps. I have believed for a long time that making scout sites viable will lead to a lot more people running incursions in LS and null. Most excellent. I will try to get stats on scouts and times this weekend if i get time, but as you in CCP know, very few people run them so it will take time to get reasonable info. |
colera deldios
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 11:30:00 -
[124] - Quote
Sean Sonnach wrote:colera deldios wrote:@CCP FoxFour
You should be nerfing HS Incursions to the point where the avg. isk/hour is bellow that of 0.0 Instead of giving them even more ISK at no RISK. If you need me to list 30 reasons why HS Incursions should not make as much as 0.0 let me know. Mara Tessidar wrote:Remove incursions from highsec or make them less profitable than being in nullsec/lowsec/wormhole space. Thick as two short planks. Incursions spawn in HS/LS/Null - so improving incursions makes null sec more profitable than HS if you have the balls to run them there. The difference between incursions and most other PVE phew is it really makes people play in fleets, which is one of the best aspects of PVE in the game. Not everyone wants to be a null bear, alone in an empty back end system, ratting risk free 99% of the time, after the first hour of running to cover your hull cost. These seem like very positive steps. I have believed for a long time that making scout sites viable will lead to a lot more people running incursions in LS and null. Most excellent. I will try to get stats on scouts and times this weekend if i get time, but as you in CCP know, very few people run them so it will take time to get reasonable info.
Yea not those assumptions are wrong. Noone wan't Incursions in 0.0 because they prevent people from roaming/pvping and they disable local infrastructure no to mention it''s a poor income and only comes around every few months. |
colera deldios
203
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 11:32:00 -
[125] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:colera deldios wrote:Plaid Rabbit wrote:colera deldios wrote: So don't be a ******** moron take your ship in stabs and then come back for your equipment in a blockade runner.
Pfft, why put that much effort into it? Train a BR alt using dual character training on your nullsec character account. Autopilot your T2 dual buffer tanked hull (you can get it up to about 200k without much effort) AFK through hisec, no problem. Kick off your AP, go grab some food, and then move your bling in a BR, and focus all your attention on that. My hull is only worth ~1b, most hisec incursion runners have fits worth 4-5b+. I'm far more worried about my fit then my hull. @Gettz Squall Unless you are utterly ******** you won't get ganked in a blockade runner in HS. A Tengu, Legion or T2 hauler and you can safely carry your cargo I passed 0.5 choke points with my Tengu setup for moving things 9 times moving total of 25b ISK and never got ganked. Or simply take your ship and do a courier contract of your fit to Red Frog freight with collateral problem solved. OK, so the point, before you got side-tracked, was 300 to 400 incursion runners (All in BR's if you will) move 1.5 to 10 trillion ISK worth of modules hulls and cargo, when they get displaced and have to move every day, since there is only a 1 day break between killing everything and a new spawn. Therefore the notion that shortened spawn timers reduced conflict and competition for ISK is; falseThank you for playing and adding a distraction about ship fitting, eve auto piloting, general ad hominem and several other topics not about the new Scout site mechanics and whether they are good as is, or in need of more tweaking.
You make better Income than 0.0 and LS residents at no risk at all. Oh god forbid you actually have to move a ship every now and then oh sweet jesus the agony of having to move something twice or dear god it it's so hard striping my fit and making a courier contract to RFF and moving my ship at the same time oh my god that is so hard to do.
|
K0NTR4
Roid Vaporisation Inc. Aeterna Anima
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 12:29:00 -
[126] - Quote
I Had finished a few Sites with a Maurauder Mix, that means Pala, Vargur, Kronos. Means only 3 Maurauder in the Site. We fittet shortrange Weapons, Bastion, MJD and MWD. For Boni we had full Info, Armor, Siege and Skirmish Boost.
Took around 15 minutes for a Site.
Even with MJD and MWD the main problem were the NPC's with high orbit.
So Antems with 140km orbit if you let them go so far. Or Vylade with around 120km and an insane Tank even if it get shoot from 3 Maurauders.
Rest is standard Jel Rhomben are weeker than Eystur. Raa Thalamus is weeker then Romi. Lirsautton put out 1,4k volley damage's (in propaganda cluster) In the Distress Beacon we had a spawn with 4 Mara's (no screenshot sadly) And Arnon's can Jam Multiple targets, All Maurauder in Bastion Mode with drones out, only 2 of my drones were able to attack. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 12:37:00 -
[127] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:
You make better Income than 0.0 and LS residents at no risk at all.
so only "nullbears" are authorized to make isk with no risk at all? try a little thing: open your map and look at stats for player ship and capsule lost. how many null systems not involved in great null battles (so where a bear has no place at all) have losses? how many hi systems? null is risk free, you are under your overlord protection or you arent there. low is at high consensual risk, you go there to blow stuff up and get blown up hi is at non consensual risk, people will blow you up you want it or not. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 12:55:00 -
[128] - Quote
Incursions broke the economy of this game when they released and you guys have been trying to fix it in every other way other than at the cause of the problem.
The main problem with incursions is that there is no loot and no salvaging to do. What this means is that these sites are just chain run so that all time spent running incursions is generating large amounts of server created isk as opposed to isk gained from other players.
For example when running level 4 missions a player earns a small percentage of his/her isk from bounties and mission rewards and also in most cases spends a fair amount of time cleaning up the mission and selling loot / minerals from reprocessed loot to other players.
Running anoms is a similar thing where you run a few then clean up then run a few more. In the distant past I think I probably made more isk selling the ships that I built from melting anom loot than I did from the bounty payouts.
To compound this problem you guys recently cut in half the amount of minerals gotten from melting mission / anom loot so I am sure a fairly large percentage of players will stop looting / salvaging and just speed run sites adding further to the imbalance of server generated isk versus isk gained from other players.
In case you guys don't see the problem isk coming into the game from NPC payouts adds to the total isk pool in game and thus increases prices on everything in game. Now I understand the concept of isk sinks and how this last "industrial" expansion added large isk sinks through the increased costs associated with setting up jobs however I feel this is a less ideal way to go about things as adding "taxes" to the game seems to sap some of the fun.
I really think you guys need to contemplate more the amount of time that players spend earning isk from the server versus isk from other players as well as how much time is needed to be spent from various activities to earn a ship loss.
Since NPC payouts are static when mudflation occurs and prices increase that means players that earn the bulk of their income from NPC sources have to spend a higher percentage of their game time earning isk to pay for PvP losses. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 13:36:00 -
[129] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Incursions broke the economy of this game when they released and you guys have been trying to fix it in every other way other than at the cause of the problem. right, a couple hundred guys earning 100mil/h broke the economy, while there are people earning hundred of BILLIONS out there. first of all, incursions are limited, there just so many sites which can be run by just so many people. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 13:39:00 -
[130] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Quite simply, I can't see how these sites are going to be remotely worth it if 5 Marauders can only earn 24 Million/Hour including LP each. They need to go back to the drawing board on scout sites, and make them different somehow. Make them about small ships, say.... Cruiser Max. And make them reasonably Isk/Hr competitive. VG's I'd leave as is, since Vanguards often did have heavy elite troops in historical terms. Make Assaults BC max, and redesign all the sites to be about mobile BC fleets (Obviously HAC's, T3's & Logi's would still be involved) and ship speed combined with good tank. Fast strike in and back out somehow. Then you have most ship sizes involved in incursions, Frigates/Destroyers might still get left behind a little but Cruisers are highly accessible to a new player.
As incursions are now on TQ T3's and logis are used quite a bit so I don't see how changing it to cruiser only makes it much more accessible to newer players. Now making them frig and dessie only sites to eliminate T3's and logis would make is so a 2 month old player could run these in a T2 frig.
I think really cost is more of a barrier for newer players than anything. Few newer players know how to earn the isk to pay for dead space and faction fit T3s, T2s and faction ships. Yes incursions can pay out enough to make it worth it to use them but if you can't buy one in the first place and no one will let you in fleet without one then you are kind of dead in the water.
If you want to make these more accessible to newer players I think you have to make cheaper ships more of a viable option so that they can find fleets and the only way I see that happening is to make incursion low / null sec only.
However while I have run high sec incursions I've not run low / null sec ones so I don't even know what people currently fly in them or how hard it is to get into fleet currently with a cheap ship so I could be way off base here.
If anyone reading this who flys low / null sec incursions regularly could give a description of what people typically fly in them and how easy it is to get a fleet if you are in a T2 fit T1 ship that would be appreciated. |
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 13:51:00 -
[131] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Incursions broke the economy of this game when they released and you guys have been trying to fix it in every other way other than at the cause of the problem. right, a couple hundred guys earning 100mil/h broke the economy, while there are people earning hundred of BILLIONS out there. first of all, incursions are limited, there just so many sites which can be run by just so many people.
First of all who is earning hundreds of Billions per hour out there and what activity are they doing to accomplish this?
I'm not sure what you are hopping to accomplish by comparing a rate ( isk per hour ) to a static number ( hundreds of Billions ).
I also think you missed the point. It's not so much the raw amount of isk / hour potential earnings as it is the source of the isk. You seem to have completely missed the point of the post I made or got all butt hurt when I questioned your cash cow and stopped reading past the first paragraph and decided to rage post.
|
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 14:14:00 -
[132] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Sara Tosa wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Incursions broke the economy of this game when they released and you guys have been trying to fix it in every other way other than at the cause of the problem. right, a couple hundred guys earning 100mil/h broke the economy, while there are people earning hundred of BILLIONS out there. first of all, incursions are limited, there just so many sites which can be run by just so many people. First of all who is earning hundreds of Billions per hour out there and what activity are they doing to accomplish this? first: were did you read the "per hour"? second: you still didnt explain how something so limited in scope and number of involved players can break the economy. there's a finite number of incursions that can be running at the same time, each of those can have a finite number of sites at the same time and even if you drag it on by not shooting moms its duration is finite. each of those sites have a fixed number of maximum ships that can enter and a fixed payout - even when one of these sites get contended only the winning fleet gets the payout. no way in heck this can even jiggle eve economy, lets not talk about "break" it. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 14:20:00 -
[133] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote: As incursions are now on TQ T3's and logis are used quite a bit so I don't see how changing it to cruiser only makes it much more accessible to newer players. Now making them frig and dessie only sites to eliminate T3's and logis would make is so a 2 month old player could run these in a T2 frig. .
the same would happen with pirate fregates and such. anything that can help low isk - low sp players do something would help more high isk - high sp ones. they solved this problem in high sec ded 3-4 by excluding t3 ships, the only solution that can keep eve players from using ultra costly/blingy ships to min-max wathever ccp throw at them is to stop those ships at the door. but I dont think its a good solution, you just have to accept that older players will min-max any pve content at the cost of newbies. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 15:30:00 -
[134] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Sara Tosa wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Incursions broke the economy of this game when they released and you guys have been trying to fix it in every other way other than at the cause of the problem. right, a couple hundred guys earning 100mil/h broke the economy, while there are people earning hundred of BILLIONS out there. first of all, incursions are limited, there just so many sites which can be run by just so many people. First of all who is earning hundreds of Billions per hour out there and what activity are they doing to accomplish this? first: were did you read the "per hour"? second: you still didnt explain how something so limited in scope and number of involved players can break the economy. there's a finite number of incursions that can be running at the same time, each of those can have a finite number of sites at the same time and even if you drag it on by not shooting moms its duration is finite. each of those sites have a fixed number of maximum ships that can enter and a fixed payout - even when one of these sites get contended only the winning fleet gets the payout. no way in heck this can even jiggle eve economy, lets not talk about "break" it.
go back up and reread your initial post that I commented on. You said "a couple hundred guys earning 100mil/h".
As far as you limited scope comment it's not as limited as you make it seem when sites are completed new ones spawn and when an incursion completes a new incursion spawns.
Just because it may be limited in nature does not mean it has no effect on the game economy.
As far as my original comment you are again missing the point that all isk in not equal and when you introduce a new source of server generated isk without introducing an isk sink you offset that balance and mudflation occurs.
Also I am of the oppinion that most of the things that CCP has done since the original balance offset has served to only make things worse not better.
If you dont' understand the difference between server generated isk and isk gotten from other players or the concept of mudflation I do not have the room here nor do I care to take the time to explain it to you especially when google will help you find resources that will do a much better job than I could. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 15:54:00 -
[135] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:
go back up and reread your initial post that I commented on. You said "a couple hundred guys earning 100mil/h".
read better the same post and thell me where's the "billions/hour" comment. if you assume something, you know what they say about people who assume things?
Quote: As far as you limited scope comment it's not as limited as you make it seem when sites are completed new ones spawn and when an incursion completes a new incursion spawns.
Just because it may be limited in nature does not mean it has no effect on the game economy.
in an economy like eve, where people losing trilions in ships like the last bruhuaua in null make only a small blink in trit sales, it is completely meaningless. just bother to look at available data instead of just assuming (again...).
Quote: As far as my original comment you are again missing the point that all isk in not equal and when you introduce a new source of server generated isk without introducing an isk sink you offset that balance and mudflation occurs.
and would you care to post your statistical data about how these changes would impact eve economy in the short, mid and long range? where's your data coming from? you are just jumping the "there are a few guys in hisec making money, lets chase them out of MY game!" bandwagon, its making you looking jelous as hek, but feel free if you want. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 15:54:00 -
[136] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote: As incursions are now on TQ T3's and logis are used quite a bit so I don't see how changing it to cruiser only makes it much more accessible to newer players. Now making them frig and dessie only sites to eliminate T3's and logis would make is so a 2 month old player could run these in a T2 frig. .
the same would happen with pirate fregates and such. anything that can help low isk - low sp players do something would help more high isk - high sp ones. they solved this problem in high sec ded 3-4 by excluding t3 ships, the only solution that can keep eve players from using ultra costly/blingy ships to min-max wathever ccp throw at them is to stop those ships at the door. but I dont think its a good solution, you just have to accept that older players will min-max any pve content at the cost of newbies.
What you say here is just not true. They just made drone changes to have a more linear increase with benefit from skill and more base damage without increasing all level 5 damage so that is one example of a change which helps low SP players without helping high SP players.
I fully agree with you that players will min-max that was in part my point. I do not like changes like locking out T3 which restrict choice. I'd much rather see changes that encourage one behavior over another. An example would be to increase the risk of loosing a ship so that it would not make financial sense to fly "blinged out" ships into them. This could be accomplished by making incursions only spawn in low / null sec. Also could figure out a way to add some type of variation into the mix that would lead to an unpredictableness which resulted in more "wipes"
However none of that is really important here as I was commenting to Nevyn on how what he suggested doesn't really change the options currently open to newbies now and how the real barrier for entry was not skills but availability to fleet and isk. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 16:00:00 -
[137] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote: I fully agree with you that players will min-max that was in part my point. I do not like changes like locking out T3 which restrict choice. I'd much rather see changes that encourage one behavior over another. An example would be to increase the risk of loosing a ship so that it would not make financial sense to fly "blinged out" ships into them. This could be accomplished by making incursions only spawn in low / null sec. Also could figure out a way to add some type of variation into the mix that would lead to an unpredictableness which resulted in more "wipes"
again with the "if we nerf high sec enough its players will come here" bull high sec players dont like playing in null of they would be already there. if you remove all content from high sec, you just remove any interest for those players to play eve. and if you lose enough players your nullbears wont have enough money to keep paying ccp servers and people. would you like a 150$ montly subscription?
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 16:21:00 -
[138] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:
go back up and reread your initial post that I commented on. You said "a couple hundred guys earning 100mil/h".
read better the same post and thell me where's the "billions/hour" comment. if you assume something, you know what they say about people who assume things? Quote: As far as you limited scope comment it's not as limited as you make it seem when sites are completed new ones spawn and when an incursion completes a new incursion spawns.
Just because it may be limited in nature does not mean it has no effect on the game economy.
in an economy like eve, where people losing trilions in ships like the last bruhuaua in null make only a small blink in trit sales, it is completely meaningless. just bother to look at available data instead of just assuming (again...). Quote: As far as my original comment you are again missing the point that all isk in not equal and when you introduce a new source of server generated isk without introducing an isk sink you offset that balance and mudflation occurs.
and would you care to post your statistical data about how these changes would impact eve echonomy in the short, mid and long range? where's your data coming from? you are just jumping the "there are a few guys in hisec making money, lets chase them out of MY game!" bandwagon, its making you looking jelous as hek, but feel free if you want.
I'm not sure if it's me being poor at expressing my point or if you are just reading too fast. My original point what that you were comparing a rate to a bulk number. No you did not say hundreds of Billions of isk per hour but you did say hundreds of Millions of isk per hour and I was pointing out that comparing those two is meaningless.
Once again you are comparing apples to oranges with your trit reference.
So now we move on to due to you not understand the base concept that I have put forth you want to divert the conversation to my lack of having any statistical data of which CCP holds tight to it's chest like the trade secret that it is. No I do not have any statistical data on this nor do I have any computer models to predict specific numerical outcomes and if I did you would have seen the title "CCP" before my name. However just because I don't work for CCP and as such do not have access to the specific market data that would be needed does not mean that I do not understand the basic concepts of how in game economies work nor does it invalidate my opinion on the matter.
I'm not really sure what you think I'm jealous of. I've got the skill points and isk to do what ever I want in game. If I want to run incursion then I run them there's nothing for me to be jealous of. You however seem to want to try to invalidate my comments by offering nothing other than diversion tactics and refusing to address my base point and offering numbers so vague and incomparable as to be meaningless. You seem to be jealously protecting something you know to be out of balance.
Now if you understand that there is a difference between server isk and player isk and the ratio of server isk to isk sinks and how once isk is introduced to the game above and beyond that which is taken out that newly generated isk has affects far beyond that initial payout and is cumulative over time then I am more than happy to be corrected and educated on the matter. But your ad hominem attacks only serve to demonstrate the complete lack of any factual basis for your viewpoint and maybe even a basic lack of understanding of the concepts that I put forth here.
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
170
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 16:38:00 -
[139] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote: I fully agree with you that players will min-max that was in part my point. I do not like changes like locking out T3 which restrict choice. I'd much rather see changes that encourage one behavior over another. An example would be to increase the risk of loosing a ship so that it would not make financial sense to fly "blinged out" ships into them. This could be accomplished by making incursions only spawn in low / null sec. Also could figure out a way to add some type of variation into the mix that would lead to an unpredictableness which resulted in more "wipes"
again with the "if we nerf high sec enough its players will come here" bull high sec players dont like playing in null of they would be already there. if you remove all content from high sec, you just remove any interest for those players to play eve. and if you lose enough players your nullbears wont have enough money to keep paying ccp servers and people. would you like a 150$ montly subscription?
You sir are an excellent troll. You know how to make your comments ignorant enough that I have to comment.
I do not agree with nerfing high sec to "force" players into null. However you do seem to want to ignore the fact that ships people are willing to fly in high sec they would not be willing to fly in low / null and the significant power increase that those ships offer will affect the isk / hour so if the compensation difference is not significant enough to over come that then there is an imbalance. There is a reason why CCP removed high sec level 5 missions from the game.
I doubt you will see large numbers of people willing to fly faction and deadspace fit marauders into low sec incursions and if you see them in null it's most likely a result of the system being locked down with bubbled gates and or more players than is needed for the incursion to act as "PvP back up" both of which reduce the isk / hour of and player running the null sec incursion and all of which are unneeded or impossible in high sec.
I play WoW and I raid in that game. I understand the attraction of that type of cooperative non-competitive game play. I am also not a PvPer so I understand people who have no interest in going out to null and would never want to force or encourage that type of game play and am unhappy with CCP's current drive to do so.
However one must understand this game is not WoW and that games like WoW do not have a economy that is so closely tied to game mechanics in so many ways. Also games like WoW completely seperate PvE and PvP with instanced dungeons that forbid the two activities from ever meeting. The opposite of which is true for Eve. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 17:07:00 -
[140] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Sara Tosa wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote: I fully agree with you that players will min-max that was in part my point. I do not like changes like locking out T3 which restrict choice. I'd much rather see changes that encourage one behavior over another. An example would be to increase the risk of loosing a ship so that it would not make financial sense to fly "blinged out" ships into them. This could be accomplished by making incursions only spawn in low / null sec. Also could figure out a way to add some type of variation into the mix that would lead to an unpredictableness which resulted in more "wipes"
again with the "if we nerf high sec enough its players will come here" bull high sec players dont like playing in null of they would be already there. if you remove all content from high sec, you just remove any interest for those players to play eve. and if you lose enough players your nullbears wont have enough money to keep paying ccp servers and people. would you like a 150$ montly subscription? You sir are an excellent troll. You know how to make your comments ignorant enough that I have to comment. absolutely not, I meant everything i write. maybe I'm not able to explain myself as well as I would like as I'm not native english and my hold of English its not good enough but I dont like trolls nor trolling.
Quote: I do not agree with nerfing high sec to "force" players into null. However you do seem to want to ignore the fact that ships people are willing to fly in high sec they would not be willing to fly in low / null and the significant power increase that those ships offer will affect the isk / hour so if the compensation difference is not significant enough to over come that then there is an imbalance. There is a reason why CCP removed high sec level 5 missions from the game.
its not a question of money, if you place anything in null only people blue with the two coalitions will be able to run them. and if you are blue you can run them in wathever ship you want, you just need to look at intel and warp to pos when needed. if you place them in low only a few people that can hold that system completely locked for the period or friendly with every local denizens will be able to run them, exactly as it happens with level 5 missions. for everybody else would be suicide. so basically you arent lowering the isk/sp factor, you are just removing them from most player's reach. |
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
15626
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 17:43:00 -
[141] - Quote
I have not seen the word "brouhaha" in a while.
Quote:In a while vs. for a while:
The distinction between for Duration and in Duration depends on where the Reference Time is. Reference time is an Instant in time, not a Duration; but Duration is measured from it.
In Duration refers to a time period Duration (long) that ends at the Reference Time For Duration refers to a time period Duration (long) that begins at the Reference Time. from http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/113797/in-a-while-vs-for-a-while President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Jlust Orin
Shifting Sands Trader Cartel Bleak Horizon Alliance.
2
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 17:54:00 -
[142] - Quote
Dear CCP!
As a relatively new player (3mill SP) I would like to offer the following insights:
For me to participate in incursion is impossible because
- Not enough SP for BS or T2 logi
- Not enough money to buy BS with Shiney / Logi (This one is the lesser problem)
I think the Scout site rewamp should be aimed toward those small groups and inexperienced players whom I also represent.
Problems: Even if this possibility will offer nice rewards to rookies, more than 30mill/hour, leaving the acceleration gate to allow BS to pass through means this:
- When incursion cumminty fleets are full, they will form secondary fleets to run scouts while they wait -> no scouts left for little guy
- If inexperienced players decide to run them in LowSec, how hard is it going to be to gank a sub-battleship 5man gang with even a few BSes/marauders?
I believe you should pick a ship size you intend the scouts to be ran by, a character age (SP) below which it is impossible to join VG/HQ fleets and tweak these sites to allow best new CONTENT for these pilots cause this is basically new content and I am excited about it.
In addition: this could mean increased lowsec content too as people will venture into LS to do this if risk/reward ratio is right. |
KanashiiKami
108
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 18:21:00 -
[143] - Quote
Jlust Orin wrote:Dear CCP! As a relatively new player (3mill SP) I would like to offer the following insights: For me to participate in incursion is impossible because
- Not enough SP for BS or T2 logi
- Not enough money to buy BS with Shiney / Logi (This one is the lesser problem)
I think the Scout site rewamp should be aimed toward those small groups and inexperienced players whom I also represent. Problems:Even if this possibility will offer nice rewards to rookies, more than 30mill/hour, leaving the acceleration gate to allow BS to pass through means this:
- When incursion cumminty fleets are full, they will form secondary fleets to run scouts while they wait -> no scouts left for little guy
- If inexperienced players decide to run them in LowSec, how hard is it going to be to gank a sub-battleship 5man gang with even a few BSes/marauders?
I believe you should pick a ship size you intend the scouts to be ran by, a character age (SP) below which it is impossible to join VG/HQ fleets and tweak these sites to allow best new CONTENT for these pilots cause this is basically new content and I am excited about it. In addition: this could mean increased lowsec content too as people will venture into LS to do this if risk/reward ratio is right.
WUT ??? |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15628
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 18:22:00 -
[144] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:Can you adress my question eariler about spawn times? -- I'd like a clarification.. Ending re-spawn time, and it re-spawning has been lowered, contradict eachother.. Either it has no re-spawn time, in which case as soon as one dies, a new one spawns.. OR you've just lowered the re-spawn time to less than the current 24-48hr window. Which is it? The time between an Incursion ending and it re-spawning again elsewhere has had the minimum lowered to less than 24 hours. This is a really, really bad idea. Many changes lately have been about adding more resources worth fighting over to unused space - lowsec, C4s, etc to drive conflict. Here, you are increasing the incentives to stop fighting over resources and just grind incursions in highsec repeatedly. The game would be better off if the highsec incursion grinders were hit hard by the nerf bat. A few might whine or quit the game, but others would start actually fighting over other sources of income and driving the conflict that makes EVE interesting. I was thinking maybe Incursions are kept available to match ISK faucets in other parts of the game. moons, wh, anoms, etc. that aren't normally available to the high sec incursion types. also, I recall hearing that EVE's economy is on a deflationary trend, and a fairly recent article of Mynnna's claimed PLEX prices were due to investors (speculators), and not so much EVE is dying.
Mynnna's blog article on stuff http://thethirdn.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/inflation-revisited/
Mynnna's TMC article on PLEX http://themittani.com/features/great-plex-bubble President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
182
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 18:23:00 -
[145] - Quote
Jlust Orin wrote:Dear CCP! As a relatively new player (3mill SP) I would like to offer the following insights: For me to participate in incursion is impossible because
- Not enough SP for BS or T2 logi
- Not enough money to buy BS with Shiney / Logi (This one is the lesser problem)
No.
Incursions were added as END GAME PVE. In the same line as the escalations in C6's.. ( WH's require Cap's and fewer numbers.. Incursions no Cap''s but higher numbers ).
They are NOT there for the new player. I'm sorry, but they aren't. Go fleet up with people and run missions till you have the SP.
Scout Sites, as described earlier in the thread, are going to be there for people to make isk while waiting for spots in larger fleets. They aren't going to be worth running just on their own. Though if CCP changed their thinking, and DID make them Viable, like they are trying to do with AS's, then that would be awesome.The more you can spread people out the better. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
182
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 18:25:00 -
[146] - Quote
Oh, btw, to all the Null people crying about how much Incursions make in HS, and how scared they are to run them in Null, I need to lol.
You know what CCP should do, during an Incursion in Sov Null, the Sansha should attack to Sov. POS's, Hub's, Outposts, if ignored to withdraw the Sov should switch to Sansha Nation, with all POS's destroyed, and the alliance needing to grind it all over again.
Maybe that would get those null peeps to actually make money there rather than cry about people making it in HS their own way. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
15629
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 18:27:00 -
[147] - Quote
kinda harsh toward a newbro, but anyway.
I recall something about 'run them while you wait for higher incursion sites' but does that mean it's not meant for newbros? If so, my evaluation of them was completely wrong. If they're meant for the same people running Vanguards and HQs, then yeah, they're fine.
[side note: not sure I would call Incursions 'end game PVE'.] President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
90
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 18:47:00 -
[148] - Quote
Inc respawn changes:
Doesn't really help, only forces more movement to everybody and will result into more and faster Inc closings later on. If you want to change, change that you have to do multiple sites a the same time, requiring more people, fleets and more FCs(high sec non Island Incs only). A 2. HQ system could also help, at least it would lessen the contest problems.
Assaults:
Creating a NCN wall should be one of the options for FCs, the reason nobody does NCNs(even with good setups for them) is that they even with that kind of setup take longer than the other sites, what prevents any specialized NCN fleet from existing. Remove a pocket from the NCN and cut the sniper targets in the last pocket in halve, would make the site ok, for people that bring a few spare ships to switch around. Again change NCNs, don't change basic incursion mechanics, that limits the options of FCs.
Scouts
Remove every single ECM from them. ECM is the worst mechanic and the penalties increase a lot by having less ships on grid in scout sites than the other sites. Also cut incoming DPS down to 500-600 DPS, something that should be tank able rather easy in a group(active tank and/or some RR on the hulls). Payouts still look very underwhelming and not really worth the time.
|
Rain6637
Team Evil
15631
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 19:07:00 -
[149] - Quote
now that I don't have to feel guilty about getting all faction battleship about it, I'm going to fit up a vindicator, 3 nightmares, and a basilisk. I feel like I have a bone to pick with these scout sites, and I would like to knock one out of the park. bbialb. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1159
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 19:33:00 -
[150] - Quote
Survived a Propaganda with 4 spider tank Ishtar's, was fun :) , but had to keep switching drone assignment as the jams rolled around, lost 3 drones (Because I am slow), took 20 minutes but like I said, it was fun.
Might have been <10 minutes with 5 Ishtar's and 5 pilots rather than just me trying to do it all.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |