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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
189
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Posted - 2014.08.15 22:05:00 -
[301] - Quote
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Im fine with nerfing it and giving it a covops cloak. At least then ONE of the SoE ships will actually have something unique going for it. Remember how pirate ships are supposed to have some bonus that doesn't exist anywhere else?
Remember how SoE is not a pirate faction, and these ships are available in high sec? Ship Maintenance Bay is also kinda unique in high sec (only orca have it), its also the only exploration battleship, the remote rep bonus is also just shared with minmatar carrier/supercarrier (37.5% instead of 50% tho) Yeah that's true, nestor stops being a pirate ship when it suits the poster's argument, and it goes back to being a pirate ship when it suits the poster's argument
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epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
1026
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Posted - 2014.08.15 23:41:00 -
[302] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Irya Boone wrote:Don't understand why dev are so stubborn ..
put the covert ops cloak on the ship already , give the ship the jump drive for god sake and give the remote rep some serious bonus
Anyway you 'll see with the carppy tweaks no one will use this ships like these days You are not getting a cov ops battleship.
Do you have any objection to the nestor gaining the ability to warped cloaked ONLY IN WORMHOLE SPACE? If CCP could work out the mechanics?
Because we have a real issue, roles and mechanics that are of great importance in wormhole space, which would be perfectly balanced there, fail miserably at being balanced, in Known space.
They are diverging more and more by the day, and trying to balance for both is going to break at some point. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
8
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Posted - 2014.08.15 23:49:00 -
[303] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:baltec1 wrote:Irya Boone wrote:Don't understand why dev are so stubborn ..
put the covert ops cloak on the ship already , give the ship the jump drive for god sake and give the remote rep some serious bonus
Anyway you 'll see with the carppy tweaks no one will use this ships like these days You are not getting a cov ops battleship. Do you have any objection to the nestor gaining the ability to warped cloaked ONLY IN WORMHOLE SPACE? If CCP could work out the mechanics?
i do no battle ship should have a covert cloak
I do think the nestor would be nice if it could fit a covert cyno if we can't just give it a jump drive and bridge i would pay the iso cost to bridge it as a logi |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
1026
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Posted - 2014.08.15 23:51:00 -
[304] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:baltec1 wrote:Irya Boone wrote:Don't understand why dev are so stubborn ..
put the covert ops cloak on the ship already , give the ship the jump drive for god sake and give the remote rep some serious bonus
Anyway you 'll see with the carppy tweaks no one will use this ships like these days You are not getting a cov ops battleship. Do you have any objection to the nestor gaining the ability to warped cloaked ONLY IN WORMHOLE SPACE? If CCP could work out the mechanics? i do no battle ship should have a covert cloak I do think the nestor would be nice if it could fit a covert cyno if we can't just give it a jump drive and bridge i would pay the iso cost to bridge it as a logi
There are no cynos in wormhole space, so not sure on what you base your opinion, as to why they should not be allowed to warp cloaked only in wormhole space. Or to have wormhole specific features that ONLY function in wormhole space. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
8
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Posted - 2014.08.16 00:00:00 -
[305] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:baltec1 wrote:Irya Boone wrote:Don't understand why dev are so stubborn ..
put the covert ops cloak on the ship already , give the ship the jump drive for god sake and give the remote rep some serious bonus
Anyway you 'll see with the carppy tweaks no one will use this ships like these days You are not getting a cov ops battleship. Do you have any objection to the nestor gaining the ability to warped cloaked ONLY IN WORMHOLE SPACE? If CCP could work out the mechanics? i do no battle ship should have a covert cloak I do think the nestor would be nice if it could fit a covert cyno if we can't just give it a jump drive and bridge i would pay the iso cost to bridge it as a logi There are no cynos in wormhole space, so not sure on what you base your opinion, as to why they should not be allowed to warp cloaked only in wormhole space. Or to have wormhole specific features that ONLY function in wormhole space.
that was my bad on formatting i meant they should never be allowed t o have a covert cloak anywhere and i was then giving my idea as to what i thought they should have. i didn't mean they should have that only in wh space |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1473
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Posted - 2014.08.16 00:47:00 -
[306] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: that was my bad on formatting i meant they should never be allowed t o have a covert cloak anywhere and i was then giving my idea as to what i thought they should have. i didn't mean they should have that only in wh space
Really... And why is that? It's not fast warping. It's not fast aligning. It's not fast locking. It still has to actually lock it's target after it decloaks & the lock timer expires. So 5+BS Lock time on it's target..... Almost anything can warp off in that time if it's paying attention. This whole 'BS's should never have a covert cloak' is just one of those fears that has no reality behind it. Give it a Cov Cloak and you won't see 50000 Cloaked Nestors blocking out the sun. You just might see it occasionally supporting smaller cloaked ships. Same for the Black Ops, they could easily have a Cov cloak and not break things. |
Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2014.08.16 03:01:00 -
[307] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Joraa Starkmanir wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Im fine with nerfing it and giving it a covops cloak. At least then ONE of the SoE ships will actually have something unique going for it. Remember how pirate ships are supposed to have some bonus that doesn't exist anywhere else?
Remember how SoE is not a pirate faction, and these ships are available in high sec? Ship Maintenance Bay is also kinda unique in high sec (only orca have it), its also the only exploration battleship, the remote rep bonus is also just shared with minmatar carrier/supercarrier (37.5% instead of 50% tho) Yeah that's true, nestor stops being a pirate ship when it suits the poster's argument, and it goes back to being a pirate ship when it suits the poster's argument
I have never regarded Nestor to be a pirate battleship, if i have somewhere called it that i am truly sorry. It is a multi faction ship, and the only other multifaction ships are pirate ships so there is perhaps some merit to calling it that. However SoE have no history with piracy or spectacular combat ships, they do have good ties to exploration that this ship keeps.
It cost the exact same amount of LP to buy a Nestor BPC as it does for Vindi/NM/Mach/Bhaal, what people tend to forget is that this happens in 0.0 where you have to go for the other ships also. So from game design point of view it cost the same as pirate battleships, the higher cost is all based on supply/demand and a free market.
What special bonus would you give it, when most already agree that cov ops should not happen? |
Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2014.08.16 03:03:00 -
[308] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: that was my bad on formatting i meant they should never be allowed t o have a covert cloak anywhere and i was then giving my idea as to what i thought they should have. i didn't mean they should have that only in wh space
Really... And why is that? It's not fast warping. It's not fast aligning. It's not fast locking. It still has to actually lock it's target after it decloaks & the lock timer expires. So 5+BS Lock time on it's target..... Almost anything can warp off in that time if it's paying attention. This whole 'BS's should never have a covert cloak' is just one of those fears that has no reality behind it. Give it a Cov Cloak and you won't see 50000 Cloaked Nestors blocking out the sun. You just might see it occasionally supporting smaller cloaked ships. Same for the Black Ops, they could easily have a Cov cloak and not break things.
If cov ops is not that good, why do you want it?
Simple fact is that people that want cov ops cloak mean that it would be a big boost to the ship overall, and the people that dont want it dont want that boost.
Would you be willing to give up bonused drones and/or RR bonus for a cov ops cloak? |
Arthur Aihaken
Halas Hooligans
3766
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 04:05:00 -
[309] - Quote
This thing needs to be killed with fire. Go back to the drawing board and start from scratch. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12712
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 04:28:00 -
[310] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:This thing needs to be killed with fire. Go back to the drawing board and start from scratch.
Nope.
People just need to start thinking with their grey matter and fit it for the job at hand. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
176
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Posted - 2014.08.16 10:06:00 -
[311] - Quote
Welcome tweaks. Anything that improves the Nestor's current position. And I approve how this new theme of small, fast changes allows for changes like this one.
First, it's good to see its price might go down. As posted many times before, its cost is one of its biggest problems.
The Ship Maintenance Bay is quite curious. Seems to be designed just to allow refits, instead of carrying ships with it. Well, it being a WH ship, I imagine it as a good mobile base for Strategic Cruisers to swap subsystems, since they can now do that in space.
Reduced sig radius is nice too.
If I were to propose more changes, I would first look at the hacking bonus. Even though it's a theme for SoE ships, it does not work well in a battleship. I'd suggest to change that bonus for another one, more useful for such a ship. I won't suggest covops cloak or bridge capability: not even Black Ops can fit covops cloak and they still work well, and I don't think the Nestor needs a bridge (also, since it is a WH ship, it would be useless). Instead, I would give it the same cloaking capabilities as Black Ops: increased cloaked velocity and zero targeting delay. That way it would fill a new role: a Black Ops Logistics Drone Boat with sniping lasers and armor tanked. Sounds like a hospital ship with some teeth; I think it would fit very well with the SoE theme.
And, no offense intended, but I see too many people ranting about it not being what they want it to be or not liking it because it doesn't fill an already covered role. It is a WH ship, which can rep as much as 2.5 Guardians, bring drones, and even snipe a bit with lasers. Yes, it still needs some help, perhaps even having its repping bonuses affect shield reppers too, but I don't think it needs a covops, a bridge, or a bigger maintenance bay. It's simply not its role. Just my opinion though. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1397
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Posted - 2014.08.16 10:58:00 -
[312] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:This thing needs to be killed with fire. Go back to the drawing board and start from scratch.
You are so dumb. You are really dumb, for real! The Tears Must Flow |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1473
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Posted - 2014.08.16 11:05:00 -
[313] - Quote
Joraa Starkmanir wrote: If cov ops is not that good, why do you want it?
Simple fact is that people that want cov ops cloak mean that it would be a big boost to the ship overall, and the people that dont want it dont want that boost.
Would you be willing to give up bonused drones and/or RR bonus for a cov ops cloak?
Because the SoE Ship line was meant to be a cloaky exploration/roaming based ship line. Which the Nestor is not currently designed as. I quite happily would give up the RR bonus and have exactly the same bonuses as the Stratios on it (Designed for the correct size of ship obviously). Rather than a bunch of bonuses that don't actually match each other, and instead seem designed by a committee of 100.
Also, I never said it wouldn't be good, I said it wouldn't be OP. |
Artenso Vestindal
Dark Flames of Amarr
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 13:00:00 -
[314] - Quote
So, Nestor begins to have a role in fleet... And quite nice one with refitting feature
Now, what about making it even more fleet-support based? -remove virus coherence bonuses -remove +50% laser optimal range -can fit warfare link (or maybe even 3 like command ships?) inetria 0,25x (half mass->double inertia) |
Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2014.08.16 13:39:00 -
[315] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Also, I never said it wouldn't be good, I said it wouldn't be OP.
That is where those that want cov ops cloak and those that dont disagree, bouth sides agree that it would be better with it and 1 side think that would make it to good :P
Same bonus as Stratios wouldbe no RR amount or range, and most likely loose 25mb so it can only field 4 heavy/sentry and 5 range bonused guns.
Artenso Vestindal wrote:So, Nestor begins to have a role in fleet... And quite nice one with refitting feature Now, what about making it even more fleet-support based? -remove virus coherence bonuses -remove +50% laser optimal range -can fit warfare link (or maybe even 3 like command ships?) inetria 0,25x (half mass->double inertia)
Was stated inb the original Nestor thread that virus bonus DONT take the place for another bonus, removing it would therefor not grant access to a "better" bonus in any way or form. I do support removing laser bonus for something that can help it with fleet support |
Artenso Vestindal
Dark Flames of Amarr
4
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Posted - 2014.08.16 15:14:00 -
[316] - Quote
Joraa Starkmanir wrote: Was stated in the original Nestor thread that virus bonus DONT take the place for another bonus, removing it would therefor not grant access to a "better" bonus in any way or form. I do support removing laser bonus for something that can help it with fleet support
OK, just to clarify, I didn't mean that virus coherence removal to be something like 'way to grant access to better bonus', it just doesn't fit a support ship role, therefore it could be removed to make its role more 'pure'. (in fact, that same reason was behind laser opt range removal suggestion...)
So there is my idea behind those suggestions above: Nestor would remain with purely support role bonuses, combining all support parts in fleet diving into unknown (therefor maintaining idea for general trait of SOE ships for exploration) - someone to scan way, logistics and warfare links. And refitting based on WH type after patch. At the same time, there will remain ships that will do theese stuff better (or at least drastically cheaper), but are specifically build towards one of theese, so Nestor will be 'take 1 ship in cost of 10 to free 2 positions in fleet' |
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
16
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Posted - 2014.08.16 15:17:00 -
[317] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Do you have any objection to the nestor gaining the ability to warped cloaked ONLY IN WORMHOLE SPACE? If CCP could work out the mechanics? I'm sure CCP could work out the mechanics very easily. Bomb launchers show that they can tie modules to specific kinds of space. However, lore-wise and gameplay-wise, "this cloak on this ship can only be used in this kind of situation, even though there are tons of cloaks on other ships that can do it more generally" is really dumb and has no place in this game.
CCP's said before, if they add covert ops cloaks to black ops battleships, they will nerf their tank and DPS to compensate. If the Nestor gets a covert ops cloak, I doubt it'll be the result anyone wants. |
RTSAvalanche
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
37
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Posted - 2014.08.16 19:23:00 -
[318] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:all types of "Sentient" rogue drone commander NPCs, especially from the Sentient Alvus battleships.
So these can drop in both Null & Low sec ? |
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
27
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Posted - 2014.08.16 22:09:00 -
[319] - Quote
Pretty good changes. I always felt the main problem with this ship was the price. Making it Blops bridgeable might be ok. But even blops BS do not fit a cov ops cloak...... |
Itrala
Tycoon Innovations
1
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Posted - 2014.08.16 22:49:00 -
[320] - Quote
I see the Nestor as a big RR BS, something truly unique, it does have something that other ships doesnt have. bonus to amount.
Yes guardian are there. but they are T2 ships not T1
I would effectivly remove the virus bonus. Instead of laser range bonus damage bonus Drones are good right now. more fitting option? PG and CPU wise it"s not very good capacitor usage bonus to help him out a bit to be able to fit 4 armor RR and 2 cap Xfer low +1 mids -1 would make it a true armor tank.
Fitting for it would make it a good help in lvl 5 and Wh to run PVE PVP small gate camp would like him as well.
I might actually get one to RR people and put my drones on assist on someone |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
8
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Posted - 2014.08.17 00:34:00 -
[321] - Quote
[quote=Itrala]I see the Nestor as a big RR BS, something truly unique, it does have something that other ships doesnt have. bonus to amount.
/quote]
T1 logi have a bonus per amount that said i do like the idea of the RR BS and with the fleet maint bay its like a mini carrier for newer pilots that don't have the SP i do hope the price drops below a carriers however |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1473
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 02:10:00 -
[322] - Quote
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:battleships, they will nerf their tank and DPS to compensate. If the Nestor gets a covert ops cloak, I doubt it'll be the result anyone wants. And then several months later CCP will see that it's not as OP as the underpants market brigade claimed it would be in order to sell more underpants, and will give all that tank & DPS back, and we will have finally gotten over the outright fear of Cov Cloaks on a BS. Considering T3's with a Cov Cloak can have more tank and similar DPS to Black Op's BS's already...... While merely a cruiser which is vastly faster to train to.
That said, I'm fine with the Nestor becoming an actual fleet support BS also, provided that it actually has a real role and isn't 'second best at most things' kitchen sink approach which it is currently. |
Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2014.08.17 02:28:00 -
[323] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Considering T3's with a Cov Cloak can have more tank and similar DPS to Black Op's BS's already...... While merely a cruiser which is vastly faster to train to.
As long as T3 have not yet been rebalanced, its not a good comparison to make. IF they still have same dps/tank after the balance its another story.
Can also consider that 5 bonused drones + 4 range bonused medium lasers was to strong for Stratios, we can only assume that 5 bonused drones + 5 range bonused lasers that have longer range and longer base range would also be considered to much |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12720
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 03:46:00 -
[324] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: And then several months later CCP will see that it's not as OP as the underpants market brigade claimed it would be in order to sell more underpants, and will give all that tank & DPS back, and we will have finally gotten over the outright fear of Cov Cloaks on a BS.
No they won't.
Incidentally, T3 are in line for a savage nerf when their balance pass arrives. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Arthur Aihaken
Halas Hooligans
3766
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 04:48:00 -
[325] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:No they won't. Incidentally, T3 are in line for a savage nerf when their balance pass arrives. That's the rumour, but I'll believe it when I see it. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12720
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 04:51:00 -
[326] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:No they won't. Incidentally, T3 are in line for a savage nerf when their balance pass arrives. That's the rumour, but I'll believe it when I see it.
They are slated to be between T1 and T2. A big nerf is guaranteed. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Arthur Aihaken
Halas Hooligans
3766
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 04:54:00 -
[327] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:They are slated to be between T1 and T2. A big nerf is guaranteed. Time will tell. But if the Ishtar is any indication, it's going to be death of 1000 cutsGǪ That is unless they give it to CCP Rise. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12720
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 05:18:00 -
[328] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:They are slated to be between T1 and T2. A big nerf is guaranteed. Time will tell. But if the Ishtar is any indication, it's going to be death of 1000 cutsGǪ That is unless they give it to CCP Rise.
I for one cannot wait for it to happen, the rage induced tears will be biblical. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Arthur Aihaken
Halas Hooligans
3766
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 05:32:00 -
[329] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I for one cannot wait for it to happen, the rage induced tears will be biblical. You're truly evil. You know that, right? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12720
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 06:51:00 -
[330] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:I for one cannot wait for it to happen, the rage induced tears will be biblical. You're truly evil. You know that, right?
I know Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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