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Shadowblayde
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Posted - 2006.07.17 13:08:00 -
[1]
That's the real question isn't it.
I went to the Republic Military School and I've been around a bit. It seems that the "war" with Amarr is 50% about freeing slaves and 50% about revenge.
If you want to take out the Amarr Empire, I'd suggest forming a Mega Alliance and just do it. There must be hundreds of willing pilots. Just fly into Amarr space and target every Amarrian ship and pod it. Regularly. Eventually they would get the message that it ain't safe to fly.
On a separate note, when Amarrians respond to Minmatar posts, it's like they just want to wind us up. They don't go out getting slaves. I'd like to see a picture showing how many slaves these people actually have. That way, you'd know who you are fighting against. I reckon they don't even own any slaves and just alot of hot air.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.17 13:25:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
If you want to take out the Amarr Empire, I'd suggest forming a Mega Alliance and just do it. There must be hundreds of willing pilots. Just fly into Amarr space and target every Amarrian ship and pod it. Regularly. Eventually they would get the message that it ain't safe to fly.
Unfortunately it is not that simple. While we might - might - be able to take out the independent / paramilitary pod pilot organizations with that method, assuming the nation states and navies would let us hide behind the back of CONCORD and not get involved would be extremely dangerous. An attack of that scale would very likely be perceived as an attack against the Empire itself, not a quarrel between pilot organizations.
Moreover, it is the estimation of the Republic Fleet command that a full-out war with the Amarr Empire at this time would be a hard gamble at best. Mindless violence leading to another thousand years of oppression is not what we need.
Patience is what we need, now. Diplomacy and preparation are harder sometimes than giving in to the rage, yet someone must do them too.
Naturally, this is not an answer to the question of what the Minmatar want; I speak for myself alone. I know I am not the only one in space who sees clearly in this one, though, even now when more and more of our people seem to be blinded with their (righteous, but still dark) anger.
Peace in a pod - Liberty Network
Gradient is hiring
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.17 13:44:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Shadowblayde
That's the real question isn't it.
What the Minmatars want, and what they need are not neccessarily the same.
Quote:
I went to the Republic Military School and I've been around a bit. It seems that the "war" with Amarr is 50% about freeing slaves and 50% about revenge.
It's about neither. Studies have shown that most Minmatar resort to violence simply because they enjoy it. All of this talk about releasing slaves and vengeance is just window dressing.
Quote:
If you want to take out the Amarr Empire, I'd suggest forming a Mega Alliance and just do it. There must be hundreds of willing pilots. Just fly into Amarr space and target every Amarrian ship and pod it. Regularly. Eventually they would get the message that it ain't safe to fly.
Such a call to arms merely confirms my earlier point. If your motive was vengeance or releasing slaves you would not target every Amarrian ship. I would have thought that only targeting those pilots known to be involved in the slave trade would have been a better strategy.
Quote:
On a separate note, when Amarrians respond to Minmatar posts, it's like they just want to wind us up.
If Minmatars get wound up by being told the truth, that again merely proves their violent and uncivilised nature.
Quote:
They don't go out getting slaves. I'd like to see a picture showing how many slaves these people actually have. That way, you'd know who you are fighting against. I reckon they don't even own any slaves and just alot of hot air.
Firstly, I don't take orders from Minmatars. Secondly, taking pictures of the 1400 slaves currently servicing my ships would be an infringement of their privacy.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Shadowblayde
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Posted - 2006.07.17 13:59:00 -
[4]
Rodj Blake: "Firstly, I don't take orders from Minmatars. Secondly, taking pictures of the 1400 slaves currently servicing my ships would be an infringement of their privacy."
Privacy ? By your own admission they are slaves. They have no privacy. You can do with them what you want.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.17 14:05:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Shadowblayde
Rodj Blake: "Firstly, I don't take orders from Minmatars. Secondly, taking pictures of the 1400 slaves currently servicing my ships would be an infringement of their privacy."
Privacy ? By your own admission they are slaves. They have no privacy. You can do with them what you want.
Just because they're slaves, it doesn't mean that they don't have any rights.
And I'm certainly not going to parade them around my hangar for your amusement when they could be improving themselves by studying the Scriptures.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Shirow Miyazaki
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Posted - 2006.07.17 14:13:00 -
[6]
Well, my view on the slavery issue is that it is an outdated practise that should be revoked. I have always preferred the use of robots and machines for manual labour, they are much more efficient, cheaper, work for longer and more productively. The only slaves that I use are for domestic functions, and while they are slaves, I endeavour to treat them well. In fact, i've almost completely stopped using Vitoc completely, only with a few....unruly slaves that don't appreciate their situation.
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Shadowblayde
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Posted - 2006.07.17 14:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Shirow Miyazaki
Well, my view on the slavery issue is that it is an outdated practise that should be revoked.
And exactly what would you do with all the ex slaves ?
Slavery is so entrenched in your society that your whole Empire would disintegrate without them.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.17 14:25:00 -
[8]
They are, however, a private property.
If You want slaves to be free, buy them legally and free them.
If You cannot afford to buy them, You wuld also not be able to feed them. You know that average freed slave lives less then 10 years? They die of starvation and fall prey of crime, live in overpopulated planets in miserable conditions.
The lack of understanding of simple rules of macroeconomy and consequences of uncontrolled forced liberation of slaves done by terrorist methods, is yet another proof of how wrong it is.
There naturally are exceptions, like people of Ammatar, but as general rule, Minmatars are not reday to embrace freedom.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.17 14:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shadowblayde
Originally by: Shirow Miyazaki
Well, my view on the slavery issue is that it is an outdated practise that should be revoked.
And exactly what would you do with all the ex slaves ?
Slavery is so entrenched in your society that your whole Empire would disintegrate without them.
And what exactly would you do with all of the ex-slaves if your plan of annhilating every Amarrian ship ever came to fruition?
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Shadowblayde
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Posted - 2006.07.17 14:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
And what exactly would you do with all of the ex-slaves if your plan of annhilating every Amarrian ship ever came to fruition?
If the Minmatar people want revenge then I say destroy every Amarrian ship.
Ending Amarrian slavery is a nigh on impossible task. Diplomacy won't do it. Buying the slaves won't do it. We would have to invade your Empire and overthrow your government. Sure, there would be chaos. But what other choice is there ?
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.17 14:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Shadowblayde
Originally by: Rodj Blake
And what exactly would you do with all of the ex-slaves if your plan of annhilating every Amarrian ship ever came to fruition?
If the Minmatar people want revenge then I say destroy every Amarrian ship.
Ending Amarrian slavery is a nigh on impossible task. Diplomacy won't do it. Buying the slaves won't do it. We would have to invade your Empire and overthrow your government. Sure, there would be chaos. But what other choice is there ?
It will hurt you less if you accept your destiny as a slave.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.17 14:45:00 -
[12]
Average Apocalypse battleship has crew consisting of about;
6000 slaves (mostly minmatar) as technical ans support crew
500 free (mostly amarr and ni-kunni) people as officers, specialists, security officers, computer engieneers, priests, team leaders and so on.
5 high ranking amarr officers and priests.
1 amarr captain with blood ties with any holder family. That is one person that possibly culd own slaves.
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Zoppo Trump
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.18 04:13:00 -
[13]
Here is the topic where this minmatar Shadowblayde confesses to be a thief and a criminal.
Stealing Ore
So the same minmatar pilot suggests to form a "Mega Alliance" of hundreds of willing pilots to pod ever Amarrian pilot in space but is stealing cheap ore from his minmatar "brothers" at the same time.
I dont think i have to explain any further why your kind of moraly corrupted "freedom fighters" will never be able to threaten the Amarr Empire.
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Sweriskaka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.18 04:36:00 -
[14]
Big explosions.
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Shadowblayde
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Posted - 2006.07.18 08:23:00 -
[15]
Who said he was Minmatar ?
Anyway, I've reformed (see the thread).
So let's talk Amarr - what do you want ?
Re-enslave the Minmatar people ?
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.18 12:05:00 -
[16]
Read scriptures.
God has created the world and gave it to his faithfull chindren. His Kingdom prospered. But people grew in pride, greed and sin.
One day, He decided to give us a lesson to remember, as men of those days did not deserve His gifts anymore. The civilisation was shattered by a great catastrophy.
Now is time of reclaiming, getting what was once ours, back for the true servants of God.
Naturally, this task needs military power against mundane oposition.
But most important is our faith, as only worthy will reclaim the Kingdom of God.
--
Well, thats for scriptures, most Amarr belive this, or at least declare so. Unfortunately, even holders are humans and are exposed to the wispers of evil. And thus, there are many Amarr who, pretending to fight for reclaiming, in fact only fight for their own personal gains.
They may however succeed only for a time, ultimaetly they will fail and reclaiming will not be finished untill such people exist and act.
So, You not need to fear, or resist, Amarrians who will sieze Your regions for eternity will be faithfull people who will treat You with charity and lead You to the gates of heaven with wise teachings and inspiring example.
Those who treated You ill, were corrupted and missed the path of God, so God used You to punish them and allowed existance of Your Republic untill their ways are corrected.
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Shadowblayde
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Posted - 2006.07.18 13:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Read scriptures.
God has created the world and gave it to his faithfull chindren. His Kingdom prospered. But people grew in pride, greed and sin.
One day, He decided to give us a lesson to remember, as men of those days did not deserve His gifts anymore. The civilisation was shattered by a great catastrophy.
Now is time of reclaiming, getting what was once ours, back for the true servants of God.
Naturally, this task needs military power against mundane oposition.
But most important is our faith, as only worthy will reclaim the Kingdom of God.
Well, I guess you ain't had much luck lately what with the Jove war, having problems with the Gellente Federation, the Khanid Kingdom succeeding, the Minmattar uprising.
Hmmm. Maybe you need to change your approach to people.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.18 13:57:00 -
[18]
As i stated after the part You quoted - its not the matter of luck or strategy or military might.
Reclaiming was never intended to be easy. As such, it wuld be no use. God wanted us to proove we are worth His Kingdom, to clean our souls and aim ascend to moral and spiritual perfection on the way.
Reclaiming will not go one step further untill the empire is corrupted. God sent us Jovians tu cure our pride and Matari revolt to cure our cruelty in treatment of lessers.
The lesson may be painfull, but finally, our hearts will be cleaner, for the good of all.
---
Shuld be mentioned; I only exlain principles. Personally, I'm not a part of reclaiming in military sense, I do not fight for the empire, I run business in outer regions.
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Mr Vapor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.18 14:46:00 -
[19]
Hmmm....good question you ask there. While I can't give an answer for the whole of Minmatar, I can give you my answer.
My want list:
1. Beer. Lots and lots of beer.
2. My pants. Someone keeps stilling them and I want them back.
3. Kaleigh Doyle to be my girlfriend for one week. That's all. She can go back to doing whatever it is she does after that. I'll even take a shower before she gets here.....and I'll brush my teeth.....and I'll clean up my pig sty of an apartment.....and I'll make her dinner.
Actually, you can just skip the first two wants. I'm really only interested in the third to be perfectly honest. Now I'm going to go buy some more pants and if any of you ******* touch em I'll find you!!!!
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Shadowblayde
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Posted - 2006.07.18 14:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
As such, it would be no use. God wanted us to prove we are worth His Kingdom, to clean our souls and aim ascend to moral and spiritual perfection on the way.
Definition of moral:
1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
Morality is therfore defined by concepts of right and wrong.
You say it's right to have slaves. And you use the concept of divine right (God and your scriptures) to condone your actions.
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Shadowblayde
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Posted - 2006.07.18 14:58:00 -
[21]
Slavery: One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
Servitude:
A state of subjection to an owner or master.
B. Lack of personal freedom, as to act as one chooses.
Lack of personal choice. what do you choose ? And why don't you give the same choice to my people still held in bondage ?
FEAR. The fear to accept the consequences of your own actions. The fear that people may not want to be where they are. That is the structure upon which your Empire built.
Fear is the killer that will slowly eat away at you until you are nothing but an empty husk.
This is your destiny.
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VeNT
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.18 15:02:00 -
[22]
We want to be free!
We want to be free to do what we want to do!
We want to be free to ride.
And we want to be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man.
And we want to get loaded.
And we want to have a good time!
And thatÆs what weÆre gonna do.
WeÆre gonna have a good time.
WeÆre gonna have a party!
--------------------
Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet! |
Kaleigh Doyle
Rho Dynamics
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Posted - 2006.07.18 15:05:00 -
[23]
Ah, uhm...*blushes*
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Archbishop
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.18 15:30:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Archbishop on 18/07/2006 15:36:09
The Minmatar are incapable of deciding for themselves what they want. They're like the Gallante in some respects wanting only the instant gratification of whatever it is they want. They fail to see the long term consequences to themselves and Gods role in their lives.
To this end it is the responsibility of the Amarrian Empire to Enlighten these heathens. Like a lost child in the woods you take them and show them the way. The Amarr are doing this through slavery.
We all wish slavery wasn't necessary but the Minmatar lack the intellectual facilities to decide for themselves. Ignoring God and seeking only the here and now they make irrational decisions and spontaneous judgements that could prove fatal to their eternal soul should they be allowed to continue.
So we Amarr save them. At great personal expense and sacrifice we give all we can to protect and nurture these pathetic creatures until they see the light of God and reach Enlightenment. They lived in sin and God showed the folly of their ways while He blessed the Amarr.
"Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good.
Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land.
The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood.
But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God.
Thus they were saved and became God's chosen one."
## The Scriptures. Book II.
The truth is in the scriptures. We are responsible for these poor pathetic Minmatar. It is our solemn duty to save them from themselves.
We are the chosen and it is our destiny.
"The Amarr people came into the world and the world came into being.
Our illustrious ancestors freed their souls from the evils of the old world and created a new one.
The great Amarr Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man.
To do so the enemies of the outside had to be defeated and the enemies of the inside controlled.
The Lord gave our Emperor the power to harness the Good and punish the Evil.
Ever since, the Emperor has lived the lives of his subjects and breathed the air of authority."
## The Scriptures, Book I.
For this we receive terrorist attacks, raids on our convoys, bombing of settlements, abductions and crime. Yet we do not stop. Why? Because we care. Because we are the chosen of God and we are meant to carry the torch of the holy scriptures to all the unenlightened. It is a solemn obligation but we must not fail for to fail would be to fail God Himself.
We must not fail.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Shadowblayde
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Posted - 2006.07.18 15:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Archbishop
Edited by: Archbishop on 18/07/2006 15:36:09
We all wish slavery wasn't necessary but the Minmatar lack the intellectual facilities to decide for themselves.
We decided that we did not want to be slaves.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.18 16:51:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 18/07/2006 16:52:26
Originally by: Shadowblayde
Lack of personal choice. what do you choose ? And why don't you give the same choice to my people still held in bondage ?
As Archbishop declared, slavery in Amarr empire exists to lead those, who wuld harm themselves and/or others if given freedom of choice.
You put Your criminals to jail to prevent them from doing harm to society. We do the same, and also offer purification of soul thru socially beneficial work.
Our system is simply more advanced.
In Yours, one can be a criminal or a free person.
We have sevearal degrees of freedom, carefully adapted to units moral and intelectual capabilities. So those, who are capable of doing good on their own, are on their own, and those who wuld most likely do evil, are limited in choices, so they have good chance for salvation.
If You follow scriptures carefully, You will see that slavery is basically not for life, its a social state limited in time. Slave shuld be freed as soon as he prooves he can live as peasant. Peasant (who can for example own personal posessions and can be granted some land to use) can gain more personal rights if he prooves worthy, becoming a citizen. Citizen can move to another planet and posess armanets and also can talk to a holder or priest. And so on.
Slavery is just basic level.
A person who does evil, is degraded for her own good, so for example a prostitute citizen will become a slave to save her body and soul from sin.
The general flaw of our system nowadays, is that holders tend to "forget" to free slaves that shuld not be slaves anymore. Instead of watching lesser beings and taking care of their bodies and souls, they use them for own economic benefits.
Also, while whole races like Matari, can be enslaved by default, this shuld last no more then few decades for most of their population.
It looked so in case of my Ni-kunni ancestors. Amarrians found us in times when the empire was pure and righteous, and thus, we found salvation of both mortal shells and souls.
For not following scriptures and not treating slaves well as it shuld be done, we were punished with Matari revolt.
Quote:
FEAR. The fear to accept the consequences of your own actions. The fear that people may not want to be where they are. That is the structure upon which your Empire built.
You have absolutely no competence to speak about fundamentals of Amarr empire.
Go and study history of the Great Famine, when current form of our empire arised. The very foundation of the empire is faith and charity.
So much despited by Your kin Amarr holders were conquering the galaxy with food transports, medicines and comforting word, saving billions of lives. Whole hive planets of Amarr citizens are and will always be grateful.
Have Your whole race ever done so much good? Unlike You and history of Amarr, I know Matari chronicles - the answer is "no".
Amarr empire may be corrupted, may make mistakes, but its based on solid foundations of the Word Of God, so we will be purified again and we will prevail.
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Zoppo Trump
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.18 17:24:00 -
[27]
As mentioned before people need guidance in life to know what is right and what is wrong, to know which way will lead them to eternal life and which way to certain doom. As you yourself, Shadowblayde, obviously needed guidance to see the evil of stealing ores from honest miners and are now regreting it, Minmatar in general are missing the ethical backbone to tell right from wrong without proper guidance.
Quote:
Perhaps you have heard in your past of our Lords example of the good shepherd? The Lord is the shepherd of His people, he shows them the best pastures, leads them to the fresh waters and protect them from all dangers. His flock is in His hand and will prosper under His loving care. And such is the way of the Amarr. We are ourselfes the good shepherds of our flock, we feed and drink them, guide and protect them so they may grow and prosper. Again, treating things or beings in the proper way they were meant to be is no sign of missing love, the opposite is true.
But is the foolish little lamb allowed to wander over the hills alone to meet the wolfs? No, of course it is not, the good shepherd will catch it in time and bring it back to its family where it belongs and where it is safe. Can this be a crime? A violation of the lambs free will? No, its a sign of love, of care and compassion of the good shepherd and so is the will of God, our Lord.
Amarr brethren, a question
We are Amarr because we care!
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2006.07.18 23:12:00 -
[28]
The Matari people want not to be treated as animals. What could be a more simple request than that? For a human being to want to be treated as a human being.
Conservative elements of Amarr society may be more vocal on GalNet, but their opinions are by no means unanimous. On the contrary, many fellow Amarrians view slavery as an archaic, immoral practice that does more harm to our civilization than good. Large numbers of us are ready to leave behind the outdated dogma of racial superiority and join the modern galactic community. Failure to do so will be the downfall of Amarr, not our salvation.
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Murukan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 01:01:00 -
[29]
Lucky for us we have Archbishop and his idiot brigade PIE to decide what we want eh?
In rust we trust!!! |
Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.19 07:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dutarro
Conservative elements of Amarr society may be more vocal on GalNet, but their opinions are by no means unanimous. On the contrary, many fellow Amarrians view slavery as an archaic, immoral practice that does more harm to our civilization than good. Large numbers of us are ready to leave behind the outdated dogma of racial superiority and join the modern galactic community. Failure to do so will be the downfall of Amarr, not our salvation.
Slavery is not immoral, inhuman and cruel practice by definition. It may be such if wrong people hold slaves.
No diffrence to contracted and payed work.
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