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Aodha Khan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 08:25:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 19/07/2006 08:29:46
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 19/07/2006 08:29:19
The Minmatar are a diverse and varied group. You cannot possibly ask this question for a whole race of people as you will get 1000 different answers.
What do I want?
1. The death of the Amarr empire and everyone associated with it.
2. To increase the number of concubines in my service
3. A titan class ship
4. The corpse of Archbishop
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 09:35:00 -
[32]
Alright, on those lines... More personally, I want:
1. Guaranteed safety and freedom to my clan, tribe and nation
2. Abolishment of slavery everywhere, without the process endangering point #1
3. My frigging relatives to stop interfering with my flight time (hi Auntie)
4. Certain three pilots painfully and repeatedly (or permanently) dead
Peace in a pod - Liberty Network
Gradient is hiring
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 11:11:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Aodha Khan
The Minmatar are a diverse and varied group. You cannot possibly ask this question for a whole race of people as you will get 1000 different answers.
What do I want?
1. The death of the Amarr empire and everyone associated with it.
2. To increase the number of concubines in my service
3. A titan class ship
4. The corpse of Archbishop
And Ice-cream! Lots of Ice-cream!
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Lallara Zhuul
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.19 11:41:00 -
[34]
This banter with the subhumans is pointless.
They have sinned, their ancestors have sinned.
They must pay penance.
Simple as that.
'Death is the only Release from duty..' |
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.07.19 13:24:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 19/07/2006 13:24:56
This chitchat with the inhumane is pointless.
They have made their bed, as have their ancestors before them.
They will make reparation.
Simple as that.
Outface the depths of evil with clarity |
Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2006.07.19 14:23:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Slavery is not immoral, inhuman and cruel practice by definition. It may be such if wrong people hold slaves.
No diffrence to contracted and payed work.
The difference is that slaves receive no compensation and, most importantly, cannot choose to leave their employer no matter how badly they are treated. Also, even the most benevolent slave owner still degrades the dignity of slaves by supporting the notion that they are less worthy of freedom than himself.
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Jainara Greywind
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.07.19 14:33:00 -
[37]
Talking about freed slaves or those busily working, itÆs a tale of Amarr Empire suffering either way.
The first kind is an ineffective workforce, unreliable and unskilled, useful for nothing more than hard manual labour. The whole system required to keep them in line and make them work is a colossus on clay feet - expensive clay feet, I have to add, with all those dogs barking and demanding their share of living protein. I'm not talking about collaborationists here, they have nothing to do with the whole slave issue, there're just allies. Slaves, as it was clearly shown by history, are only viable in low-tech environment and need to be supported by constant conquests. In Amarr, I can see no major accomplishments in conquests department for some time already. As for low-techà I expect them to deny everything. *smiles*
Freed slaves, on the over hand, are just a general pain in the back. They're either loud-mouthed gun-wielding enemies-of-the-State or an easy ground to build a crime empire upon.
So, either way, Amarr lose. Your Scriptures are nice to read, but from the economical point of view they constitute a complete mess. But... who cares, right? Just like the ships destroyed by Jovians, any expense, no matter how silly, is viewed as godly-directed.
Sometimes it looks like youÆre your worst enemy.
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Silent Death - Free Delivery |
Rodj Blake
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.19 14:49:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Dutarro
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Slavery is not immoral, inhuman and cruel practice by definition. It may be such if wrong people hold slaves.
No diffrence to contracted and payed work.
The difference is that slaves receive no compensation and, most importantly, cannot choose to leave their employer no matter how badly they are treated. Also, even the most benevolent slave owner still degrades the dignity of slaves by supporting the notion that they are less worthy of freedom than himself.
What about the food, shelter, medical care and education that slaves receive in return for their labour?
Is that really so different from the wages that many workers receive elsewhere? There are billions of workers outside the Empire who receive insufficient payment for their work. Such workers are often unable to leave their jobs because they know that they will not be able to get a new one.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.19 16:35:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dutarro
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Slavery is not immoral, inhuman and cruel practice by definition. It may be such if wrong people hold slaves.
No diffrence to contracted and payed work.
The difference is that slaves receive no compensation and, most importantly, cannot choose to leave their employer no matter how badly they are treated. Also, even the most benevolent slave owner still degrades the dignity of slaves by supporting the notion that they are less worthy of freedom than himself.
You speak like someone isolated from core Amarr society. Maybe in some outer region mining colony that may seem that simple, but its not.
There is no strict distiction between freedom and lack of it. A unit living in a society is always limited in his freedom for the sake of all. Being a free citizen, You are not allowed to murder or steal or walk naked on the street or publish or read heresies. One major social level lower, as a FREE peasant, You are not allowed to move to another planet, or to start education in military school or to posess weapons or spaceships. Yet one more social level lower, as a slave, You are not allowed to disobey Your master or to own a house, but You are free to do anything in Your 6 hours of free time, You can posess basic personal assets, You can ask Your master a question (and if its about Your future, Your family as slaves, religion or morality, You shuld, by scriptures, get an answer), You have right for shelter and food, and so on and so on.
Dependent on sub-levels on social ladder, You have more or less rights. But even I, by birth a member of one of royal families, had always have a great number of duties and restrictions. In compared to a slave, I really had more of them, making my life simply more complicated then just obeying a master.
So You imagine, that a contract worker in State or Federation, has some diffrence if quality, not only quantity of freedom?
Hey, when we free slaves, maybe we shuld also allow peasants to migrate freely. Oh, the happy life of 30-billion hive planets haunted by starvation and surronded by unhabited plantation planets (because simply everyone moved). But its no problem, we can just allow citizens to kill each other! And let everyone buy himself a gun! A cannon maybe! Or perhaps let us simply allow biological weapons on free market, why limit peoples freedom to buy them?
Personal freedom is limited for a reason.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.19 16:48:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jainara Greywind
Talking about freed slaves or those busily working, itÆs a tale of Amarr Empire suffering either way.
The first kind is an ineffective workforce, unreliable and unskilled, useful for nothing more than hard manual labour.
Yes, contracted and payed work is sometimes more effective then slavery. Sometimes, spontaneus or contracted cooperation is more effective then payed work.
But also, sometimes contracts limit worker freedom, and sometimes slaves are granted rights and decisive power beyond their normal social limitations.
You're totally wrong thinking, that slavery is adapted only for unskilled, unreliable manual labour.
I have simple handworking slaves as well as educated slaves asigned to responsible tasks, like my personal assistant, Immad Hadaioki (who, once offered, denied liberation for some honour codex reasons).
I also have contracted, well payed workers (some of them ex slaves). And I have friends and corporate colegues, who I cooperate as equal (Ignoring my amarrian social status for various reasons).
Many systems for having people do a job that must be done work and are usefull in difrent situations. Slavery is not universally useless, and contracts are not universally the best solution.
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2006.07.19 23:00:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Originally by: Dutarro
The difference is that slaves receive no compensation and, most importantly, cannot choose to leave their employer no matter how badly they are treated. Also, even the most benevolent slave owner still degrades the dignity of slaves by supporting the notion that they are less worthy of freedom than himself.
You speak like someone isolated from core Amarr society. Maybe in some outer region mining colony that may seem that simple, but its not.
On the contrary, I speak against slavery not out of naive isolation from the civilized words, but from exposure to the thriving, modern societies outside Amarr space. In Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar societies, and even in the fledgling capsuleer states beyond, every citizen has a stake in their civilization's success and thus each contributes a greater share of his or her talents to their empire's progress. This is why Amarr should evolve beyond slavery, in order to increase the pace of our social and technological development.
Quote:
...There is no strict distiction between freedom and lack of it. A unit living in a society is always limited in his freedom for the sake of all....
Some limits on personal freedom serve the greater good, but that is not the purpose nor the reality of slavery. Slaves' freedom is sacrificed for the ease and profit of their masters, who sacrifice nothing in return. This can only be imagined to serve the 'greater good' if you presume that the welfare of slaves doesn't matter, i.e. that they are subhuman and therefore what's bad or good for them is irrelevant.
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Mitsurugii
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.25 14:14:00 -
[42]
We`re all slaves. Slaves to Religion, slaves to ISK, slaves to perversion, and with the matari, slaves to a self-destructive ideology. All tiers in the same cake, but of varying flavours..making for a disgusting cake. I guess time will decide one of these facets will endure, but times change and the finallity and stability all us slaves crave will only be a temporary blink in the eye of the void. May as well pray, make money, drink, and justify the murder of our "enemies" while we can.
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Mallory Reynolds
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Posted - 2006.07.28 16:59:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Mallory Reynolds on 28/07/2006 17:00:28
Speaking as a Minmatar who suffered under the crushing reign of Amari hypocrisies, I endured torture, brainwashing, and worse indignities I cannot speak of here. I was only spared the Vitoc as a medical specialist - and then only because they felt knowledge of it was dangerous in my hands.
And yet, I feel no hate, no rage to send even the Amari to a freezing end in the black. All I want is the simple right to live free among the stars, to live as I choose to live, and that all my brothers and sisters of all races do the same.
We know now that the traders do not simply deal in the sons and daughters of Matari: Galliente, Caldari, even Amari themselves can become subject to the neurocollar, the jacks, the needles, the lash.
The time has come for all human races to recognise that this cannot continue. That we cannot build societies on a foundation of suffering and squabbling - these are shifting sands that will swallow us all.
All nations: all races: I call you now. Stand together for freedom: or watch humanity fall apart.
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AsheRaven
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 17:42:00 -
[44]
Personally, the Blood Clan Raven's requests are as follows
1: The extermination of the Khanid people
2: To ascend to our angelic status
3: To be given back what is rightfully ours by the Shakor. The Raven islands on Matar. Much Shakor blood will be spilled until that is returned to us,
4: The Head of Sidyous
6: A piece of cake
Not much to ask for is it?
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.29 02:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: AsheRaven
6: A piece of cake
Not much to ask for is it?
Won't someone let them eat cake?
~~~~~
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Merv Tring
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.29 08:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: The Book of Matar
(1)The Supreme created this world and gave it to his Chosen children. And they built a great empire, enlightened and humble before their creator.
(2)But ages passed, and they grew sinful, and their empire was shattered.
(3)And they saw the error of their ways, and they began to rebuild.
(4)But in the memory of their passed glory they grew too arrogant and too greedy, and so the Supreme unleashed the Deciever, the false god, and his degenerate minions to enslave the Chosen.
(5)And the second empire was shattered.
(6)And an age passed, and the Chosen endured their hardship and learned humility again. And the Supreme appeared before a few.
(7)And the Supreme said to his Chosen, "Strike down the minions of the Deciever where you find them, and drive them from that which I have given you. And free your brothers and sisters, and teach them of arms, that they may aid you."
(8)And they struck down their captors, and they freed many, and they drove the minions of the Deciever from Heimatar, and from Metropolis, and from Molden Heath also.
(9)So this age of Reclaiming began.
See, I to can use fairytales to justify my people's actions.
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Tsual
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.30 11:21:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Tsual on 30/07/2006 11:21:28
Originally by: Merv Tring
Originally by: The Book of Matar
(1)The Supreme created this world and gave it to his Chosen children. And they built a great empire, enlightened and humble before their creator.
(2)But ages passed, and they grew sinful, and their empire was shattered.
(3)And they saw the error of their ways, and they began to rebuild.
(4)But in the memory of their passed glory they grew too arrogant and too greedy, and so the Supreme unleashed the Deciever, the false god, and his degenerate minions to enslave the Chosen.
(5)And the second empire was shattered.
(6)And an age passed, and the Chosen endured their hardship and learned humility again. And the Supreme appeared before a few.
(7)And the Supreme said to his Chosen, "Strike down the minions of the Deciever where you find them, and drive them from that which I have given you. And free your brothers and sisters, and teach them of arms, that they may aid you."
(8)And they struck down their captors, and they freed many, and they drove the minions of the Deciever from Heimatar, and from Metropolis, and from Molden Heath also.
(9)So this age of Reclaiming began.
See, I to can use fairytales to justify my people's actions.
And they are quality wise way better then that.
********************
Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence.
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AsheRaven
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.31 11:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Originally by: AsheRaven
6: A piece of cake
Not much to ask for is it?
Won't someone let them eat cake?
Apparntly Cake seems to be high on the list of illegal goods. Concord take the trafficing of Baked goods very seiously.
All I want is my creampuff damn it!!
---------------------------------
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Tar Magen
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.31 11:44:00 -
[49]
I occasionally wonder if the Minmatar aren't poisoning the Empire from within.
Might it not be better to purge ourselves of them for a time? The only thing that unites them is their perception of a common threat. "Free" the slaves and deliver them to the so-called Minmatar Republic and it will collapse from its own disunity and internal chaos, and quite possibly drag the Gallente down with it.
Perhaps then they'd perceive their need for God and could be welcomed back into the Empire as God's willing subjects. |
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