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Karynn Denton
Clan Katanga Caravan
238
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Posted - 2014.08.14 17:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:I suggest we just get Nauplius really high. Like really really, really out of his mind....he'll never harm a soul again, let alone fly a ship. Where's the booster selling Thukker gal when you need her.....
-Eran
I already tried, Eran. He wasn't having it. Which was a shame, it would've been so easy to slip an extra toxin here or another tranq there into his batch...
Karynn Denton Caravan Master
Drug-dealing, frigate-fighting, Rifter-rolling Thukkervixen |
Ayallah
Sniggwaffe WAFFLES.
296
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Posted - 2014.08.14 17:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Do not try to twist my words Jandice.
For months it has been known that Nauplius flies with slaves in his cargo hold. For months.
Avlynkaa and I have both been able to kill him without killing the people inside. Samira has done it three times Even PIE as a whole who cares for slaves only as property has rescued almost three times as many people as have died in engagements with him.
The Stormcrows are not even attempting to save people, They failed to save even a single person in any engagement. They killed five people until Nauplius intentionally threw enough of them at him that some were bound to survive.
Nauplius waited almost hours before posting here. He knew exactly how they were shooting, how loose their ROE is, and he played them.
They did not even learn their lesson as the next day they killed 11 more people. More than had been killed in every engagement with him up until the day before and the bestower.
Do not try to sell me this sad nobility or realities of hard choices. Other people have shown demonstrated restraint. One mercenary group is clearly just killing him for money and give a damn about the people. Or did everyone forget why we were killing him in the first place?
They see a hauler, in his home system and the first thing they do is open fire. No self destruct timer. Now talk about naive.
The Stormcrows, operating on contract have killed 2050 of my people. There is your tragic reality.
As far as I am concerned, they are as much the enemy as he is. -áFear The Tribes |
Anslo
Scope Works
6563
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Posted - 2014.08.14 17:31:00 -
[63] - Quote
No offense but I'm pretty sure you've killed a whole hell of a lot more of your own people on SniggWaffe ops.
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Ayallah
Sniggwaffe WAFFLES.
296
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Posted - 2014.08.14 17:32:00 -
[64] - Quote
Anslo wrote:No offense but I'm pretty sure you've killed a whole hell of a lot more of your own people on SniggWaffe ops.
Killing the combat crews of capsuleer ships is a whole entire different discussion than killing civilians Anslo. -áFear The Tribes |
Anslo
Scope Works
6563
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Posted - 2014.08.14 17:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
Hey I'm just sayin'. Civi or not, neither get resurrected.
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Ayallah
Sniggwaffe WAFFLES.
296
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Posted - 2014.08.14 17:35:00 -
[66] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Hey I'm just sayin'. Civi or not, neither get resurrected.
You are not wrong. Even in saying so. -áFear The Tribes |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
780
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ayallah wrote: As far as I am concerned, they are as much the enemy as he is.
You still failed to answer my question. You see a slave-transport piloted by Nauplius; carrying over 4000 slaves; what will you do. let him pass by, keeping the slaves confined to their future envisioned by Nauplius, or will you act?
That people have died is tragic, it has been mentioned before, what you fail to mention is that there's also 2000 saved, who otherwise would have been kept in slavery for longer or put to death through Nauplius' rituals. You do not mention them.
-áThe Empire Titans, when big isn't big enough!-á -á-áUshra'Khan liberates slaves in Amarr! |
Anslo
Scope Works
6567
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:13:00 -
[68] - Quote
It's not important to Aya. She doesn't see 2000 saved, but 2000 killed. It's like most bullshit on the IGS, all about view points.
Round and round the debate we go, with valid points countering each other based on the morals of the debaters in an endless cycle of showmanship, moral high ground taking, and rabble that at the end of the day, is pretty ******* pointless considering it'll just happen again, and again, and again. And be talked about again, and again, and again.
Where the endless argue-go-round stops? Nobody knows!
'But Anslo, if you dislike it so much, why stick around?'
Because I'm hoping something changes at some point and things get interesting again. Besides, some nifty stuff pops up now and then.
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Ayallah
Sniggwaffe WAFFLES.
297
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:24:00 -
[69] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote: You still failed to answer my question. You see a slave-transport piloted by Nauplius; carrying over 4000 slaves; what will you do. let him pass by, keeping the slaves confined to their future envisioned by Nauplius, or will you act?
That people have died is tragic, it has been mentioned before, what you fail to mention is that there's also 2000 saved, who otherwise would have been kept in slavery for longer or put to death through Nauplius' rituals. You do not mention them.
The answer should be obvious to anyone with a brain. NOT shoot the bestower. He undocked them in Mehatoor specifically because he knew the Stormcrows would shoot them. They were never going anywhere.
And you may have missed it but I did not, the people were on their way to Gradient before I ever posted in the thread.
-áFear The Tribes |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
593
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:33:00 -
[70] - Quote
So, Stormcrows have fallen into Nauplius's cunningly designed trap, eh ?
Intriguing ! |
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Anslo
Scope Works
6585
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
See? Here's a good example (no offense Aya, this isn't personal).
So, let's say you do nothing. What happens when he self destructs and ALL the slaves dies? Isn't it your fault for not acting?
Or what happens if he flies off and sacrifices them or whatever it is he does. Isn't it your fault for not acting?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Endless argue-go-round. But there's ways to cope with this! Do what I did!
Stop giving a **** about debates and loud mouths trying to look better than everyone else. Interact with people who build you up, not bring you down or infuriate you.
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Ayallah
Sniggwaffe WAFFLES.
297
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
Anslo wrote:It's not important to Aya. She doesn't see 2000 saved, but 2000 killed. It's like most bullshit on the IGS, all about view points.
You have absolutely no idea what is or is not important to me.
And yes, it is a matter of viewpoints.
I wonder if people would be talking about noble hard choices if it was 4034 Gallentean Students held hostage and instead of negotiating or attempting to rescue them the FIO just bombed the place.
They did all they could, they really did.
Good thing he is dead though huh? Makes these sort of all-or-nothing tactics worthwhile. At least they stopped him so he cannot hurt more people. -áFear The Tribes |
Anslo
Scope Works
6596
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:You have absolutely no idea what is or is not important to me.. Well it could be inferred it's important to you since you've gone on about it for a while in this thread now so uh...
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Ayallah
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
298
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
I cannot think of a single reason I would want to keep quiet publicly about what the stormcrows are doing.
I cannot think of a single benefit to drawing attention to the fate of those lucky enough to survive. Them going to Gradient as quickly and quietly as possible is the best thing that could have happened. Why me pointing out the bullshit going on with the stormcrows is put in jeopardy by the fact I did not mention that before, I will never understand.
I get the reasoning behind your defense. I really really do. But the distinction between a pilot or group that had been trying to rescue people saving only half from the self-destructed wreck after negotiations break down and mercenaries who have been playing the 'there are no civilians' game since day one of their contract blowing up a bait hauler full of people before a self destruct timer is even started, ...should be obvious. -áFear The Tribes |
Anslo
Scope Works
6615
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:55:00 -
[75] - Quote
Meh whatever floats your boat Aya. But like so many people told me in the past, do something about it. Use the energy you got for posting about it to go and act without a second thought.
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Ayallah
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
298
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:59:00 -
[76] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Meh whatever floats your boat Aya. But like so many people told me in the past, do something about it. Use the energy you got for posting about it to go and act without a second thought.
You are not wrong. But I am ahead of you on it this time. -áFear The Tribes |
Anslo
Scope Works
6615
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:Anslo wrote:Meh whatever floats your boat Aya. But like so many people told me in the past, do something about it. Use the energy you got for posting about it to go and act without a second thought. You are not wrong. But I am ahead of you on it this time.
Look at you all on the ball and **** and what not!
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
781
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:19:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:Anslo wrote:It's not important to Aya. She doesn't see 2000 saved, but 2000 killed. It's like most bullshit on the IGS, all about view points.
You have absolutely no idea what is or is not important to me. And yes, it is a matter of viewpoints. I wonder if people would be talking about noble hard choices if it was 4034 Gallentean Students held hostage and instead of negotiating or attempting to rescue them the FIO just bombed the place. They did all they could, they really did. Good thing he is dead though huh? Makes these sort of all-or-nothing tactics worthwhile. At least they stopped him so he cannot hurt more people.
This is indeed a good example you give Ayallah, as we know a person who holds a viewpoint as extremist as Nauplius has towards minmatar (*They must be given over to destruction*) This person is Diana Kim, who has been frequently seen quoted *The Gallente federation must be destroyed* She has extended this to the civilian population on several occasions.
In your example, the 4034 Gallente students are held hostage by Diana Kim aboard her ship. Negotiations by FIO fail, as they are gallente themselves.
So now there's two options left. Either follow your Rule of Engagement : 'do nothing' and as result, 4034 Gallente students will die.
Or act: FIO engages Diana Kim's ship, 2034 students die, 2000 are rescued.
Both are terrible choices, as people die, but of the two, the second option: 'to act' is the better choice, as at least half of them survive instead of none. If there's an option to save them all, it would be the best choice, but alas, it is not there. You could of course wait, hoping for such opportunity to appear, but knowing Nauplius modus operandi (and Diana Kim's) chances are the 4034 would all die before this opportunity arises.
-áThe Empire Titans, when big isn't big enough!-á -á-áUshra'Khan liberates slaves in Amarr! |
Anslo
Scope Works
6639
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:27:00 -
[79] - Quote
Here's another thought; they all just want attention. If you need to act, act in space, and post or say nothing. Make it seem like standard pest control. Demean them and their acts by simply not acknowledging them as anything new or worth mentioning.
Pest control op underway, nothing to see here, move along.
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Jude Kopenhagen
Stormcrows
29
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
Evening Pilots,
I rarely reply here, simply because I try to let me actions speak louder than my words. However, it seems while some have had certain wisdom and insight, others have not.
Ayallah,
up to now not a single Stormcrow has responded in this thread, yet you claim to know our hearts and minds? Based on what exactly? Your own assumptions?
Do you know the terms of our contract? Were you there when we made the choices we made? Were you there when we let a Bestower past, only to have the report delivered a few minutes later that all the slaves have been executed?
How would you have handled it?
We have to live with our actions, not you.
Just to be clear, I do not care half an isk what you think, because it seems you are here only to draw attention to yourself. But if you were really so concerned, you would have come to discuss this with me, find out the full story instead of forming your own half-truths.
So, go ahead and talk here, but if you really take exception with us, like you seem to, come take it up with us at any time.
PS. Thank you for all the pilots who have shown willingness to help those rescued go where they would feel most at home. And thank you to Hoshi Karasawa who was so willing to provide the logistical means that we lacked in the war zone, and at such short notice. |
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Anslo
Scope Works
6647
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:32:00 -
[81] - Quote
and THIS is why I stay on IGS. It's about to get good.
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Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
871
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:46:00 -
[82] - Quote
Anslo wrote:and THIS is why I stay on IGS. It's about to get good. *passes the popcorn* The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Kohiko Sun
Stormcrows
30
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:46:00 -
[83] - Quote
Quote:Be sure to sell any slaves you rescue from my wrecks back into slavery. Or join with me in the Faith...and sacrifice them. Requests denied. |
Anslo
Scope Works
6647
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:47:00 -
[84] - Quote
Kohiko Sun wrote:Quote:Be sure to sell any slaves you rescue from my wrecks back into slavery. Or join with me in the Faith...and sacrifice them. Requests denied.
EEEEEEEE IT'S KOHIKO SUN!!! PLEASE SIGN MY HULL!!!
EDIT: OH GODS SHE LIKED MY POST SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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Ayallah
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
298
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:09:00 -
[85] - Quote
Jude Kopenhagen wrote: Actions speak louder than my words.
Jude Kopenhagen wrote: Ayallah,
up to now not a single Stormcrow has responded in this thread, yet you claim to know our hearts and minds? Based on what exactly? Your own assumptions?
Do you know the terms of our contract? Were you there when we made the choices we made? Were you there when we let a Bestower past, only to have the report delivered a few minutes later that all the slaves have been executed?
You have gotten slaves killed, every slave killed in fact, in every single one of your engagements with Nauplius so far save the bestower. Given the size of the ship and number of people who died it is obvious that your pilots skipped right past everything and just shot it without any attempt of boarding action, no activation of self-destruct timer and no attempt at negotiation whatsoever. Exactly like your people have handled every other fight which is exactly why there are so many dead slaves on your killboard.
Your actions and the actions of your pilots has spoken. All you are doing is defending the fact your contractor may not have directed you to act as you obviously did.
Jude Kopenhagen wrote: How would you have handled it?
I would have not shot the unarmed transport full of people.
Jude Kopenhagen wrote: We have to live with our actions, not you.
2050 innocent people do not get to live because of your actions.
Others have already tried to spin this as 'I do not care enough about the people rescued' so your 'I do not care really, I am just doing it for attention.' line falls far short.
Tell the rest of your excuses to the dead. -áFear The Tribes |
Anslo
Scope Works
6647
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Aaaand back to the argue-go-round...
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
782
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:28:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:Jude Kopenhagen wrote: How would you have handled it?
I would have not shot the unarmed transport full of people.
Causing the death of 4034 people in the near future, following Nauplius Modus Operandi (*all minmatar must be given over to destruction*)
Ayallah wrote:Jude Kopenhagen wrote: We have to live with our actions, not you.
2050 innocent people do not get to live because of your actions.
And 2000 people get to live, which is still more then if they did not shoot.
Ayallah wrote: Others have already tried to spin this as 'I do not care enough about the people rescued' so your 'I do not care really, I am just doing it for attention.' line falls far short.
Tell the rest of your excuses to the dead.
The problem many have with your comments is, you claim you care about the survivors, yet propose a course of action that will lead to the death of 4034 people rather then 2034 people.
If you would only explain the best course of action that will not lead to the death of these slaves, you would do everyone a great help. I'm aware you said 'don't shoot' , but you must have some plan to save them all? From your comments, I can't fanthom your advice would be *Don't shoot, let them live in slavery under Nauplius hands and die* concerning your stance on slavery and how deeply you care about the survival of these slaves.
Following from that, the advice must be something different, 'Don't shoot , -Unknown-' It would be good to know what this full advice would be. -áThe Empire Titans, when big isn't big enough!-á -á-áUshra'Khan liberates slaves in Amarr! |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
872
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:30:00 -
[88] - Quote
I hereby declare this thread is renamed as follows: Thread of moral self pleasuring #1220984576.
That is all. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3948
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:33:00 -
[89] - Quote
A multi-race Private Military Contractor is hired by Amarrians to kill an Amarrian. The collateral lives lost are Minmatar. Is anyone surprised that the Vendor has not been told to respect the human shields of the target by the client?
Really?
I think there's some sort of war on, isn't there? "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Anslo
Scope Works
6647
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:35:00 -
[90] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:A multi-race Private Military Contractor is hired by Amarrians to kill an Amarrian. The collateral lives lost are Minmatar. Is anyone surprised that the Vendor has not been told to respect the human shields of the target by the client?
Really?
I think there's some sort of war on, isn't there?
Don't bother dude, trust me. Just don't.
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