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Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
737
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Posted - 2014.08.25 14:23:00 -
[241] - Quote
Verin, will you ever just take the bait instead of grabbing the line and pulling the fisherman down to be devoured? I mean, you make us shitposters look so very bad. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Vinh Trahn
Gradient
36
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Posted - 2014.08.25 14:29:00 -
[242] - Quote
I believe it is time for a personal tale to put things in perspective.
The number of slaves rescued and killed in this endeavor is at a point where the personal suffering of in question is overlooked with regards to the greater evil of slavery that plagues the cluster.
So I want to share something with you. As a survivor of a similar sort of situation.
Many years ago, before I was granted the option to become a capsuleer an illegal raid was carried out upon the station I was employed at. Amongst those taken in there were both my wife and my daughter at the time. And of course many of our kin.
I do not know the precise identity of these raiders, I remember the gold and beige corridors. And in between everything I remember the screams, the cries. I remember the hand of my daughter pried from my own when being split up according to gender.
We were but an hour in the flight, huddled in cargo bays. Dimly lit and scared, angry, confused. When the alarms started blaring throughout the ship. Explosions in the distance at first and then tearing through the hull of the transport. Lights failing, screams in the darkness.
Strangely it was one who currently flies with the flock that was the one intercepting the transport. One whom I have become rather close with over the years following.
Few of us survived, me being amongst them. My wife and daughter, to the extent of my knowledge, were lost. And believe me I have looked, and am still looking.
Of course I felt the anger at first, the attack on an unarmed transport, the death of my family, my friends, my kin. I understand everyone here crying out against.
But if you were to ask me, I say keep the attacks up, keep fighting. Because I would rather be dead than be in chains. While I do not rest easy at all I rest easier knowing those I love are not in imperial hands.
That those I love are not subjected to slavery, to exploitation, to torment. Fear not this night. You will not go astray. Though shadows fall still the stars find their way. |
Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
4003
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Posted - 2014.08.25 14:50:00 -
[243] - Quote
When Gradient, In Exile and PIE cooperate to frustrate your agenda - I think you can safely be called an enemy of humanity. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Aracturus
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
186
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Posted - 2014.08.25 15:01:00 -
[244] - Quote
Arista Shahni wrote:
Some can and will argue (rightly) that ships piloted by Capsuleers require far less crew, and therefore we are "saving lives".
Some can and will argue (rightly) that many baseliner crew are paid, and chose freely to do the work they do; that they have taken these jobs willingly, with full knowlege of the risks. Perhaps even the same for the occasional Exotic Dancer.
Some will argue (rightly) that many causes are not simply 'our wars' as private Capsuleer corporations go. We do not exist and function in a vaccuum, nor were we generated spontaneously with purpose derived later. We were and are an answer, a first step, in wars that have been raging for centuries. We were born of the baseliners - we *were them*, once, and are a product of their decisions to use a capsuleer program and our own decision to participate.
But yes. The crew die anyway. In droves. Even in a sense, 'by accident'. Nearly every Capsuleer would rather dock home in their ship than a pod, and will comfort themelves if they do dock up in a pod or wake in a tank that the numbers of baseliners required to operate their ship-now-wreck was far lower with an Infomorph Piloting the starship. They will comfort themelves with the percentage of lifepods that found their way to stations. They comfort themseves with the 'lives saved'.
Fourteen trillion (estimated) crew of capsuleer vessels alone have died over the last decade. The number of 'brilliant lives' lost in Baseliner operated ships of all factions, 'legal' and 'illegal' by CONCORD rating has not even been measured.
These numbers are the populations of entire star systems. Countless lives, stories are now silent, known only to God.
The scale of these numbers have reduced the dead to numbers, and nothing else because they are too large to encompass, even with an Infomorph brain capacity. We simply can not encapsulate the scope of the loss, truly, in our minds. We are incapable. One may as well try and comprehend the mind of God before trying to fully comprehend what we have done. .
5edgy3me.
Seriously ari, did we run out of coffee at the Noir? You could have just said so instead of going on warpath. This is now a WIDOT thread! |
Jace Sarice
Sarshitra Corporation
4508
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Posted - 2014.08.25 15:08:00 -
[245] - Quote
The difficulty with all of this the publicity. Surely everyone is aware that Naupilus orchestrates his actions based upon the reaction they will get and the amount of people that will notice him. This is not unique to the Intergalactic Summit by any means, but why should it be encouraged?
If pilots and organizations feel the need to seek him out, by all means continue to do so - but why encourage the public posturing by continual responses to his rantings and ravings? It would be far more effective to let him be destroyed in relative silence by not supporting his advertising campaigns. Unless, of course, his publicity also serves the narcissism of others. I do not care what you think as long as it is about me. |
Kyllsa Siikanen
Gradient
338
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Posted - 2014.08.25 15:14:00 -
[246] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:When Gradient, In Exile and PIE cooperate to frustrate your agenda - I think you can safely be called an enemy of humanity.
Getting Gradient and PIE to agree on something (Given our what, six year long mutual war?) should be noted in history books. The fact In Exile (And by extension, PYRE) and Stormcrows also are in agreement proves that, yes, Nauplius sucks just THAT much.
PS. Thank you to those mentioned above. Yesterday, 4500 people were freed from this madman. GÇ£Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.GÇ¥-á
GÇò C.S. Lewis-á |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1284
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:00:00 -
[247] - Quote
Aracturus wrote:Seriously ari, did we run out of coffee at the Noir? You could have just said so instead of going on warpath. That some may already know, understand and accept the message does not mean it should not be stated anyway.
All of what she said, needed to be said, and bears repeating on a regular basis. Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar Owner, The Golden Masque
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:00:00 -
[248] - Quote
Jace Sarice wrote:The difficulty with all of this is the publicity. Surely everyone is aware that Naupilus orchestrates his actions based upon the reaction they will get and the amount of people that will notice him. This is not unique to the Intergalactic Summit by any means, but why should it be encouraged?
If pilots and organizations feel the need to seek him out, by all means continue to do so - but why encourage the public posturing by continual responses to his rantings and ravings? It would be far more effective to let him be destroyed in relative silence by not supporting his advertising campaigns. Unless, of course, his publicity also serves the narcissism of others.
On the upside, if Nauplius kept doing what he's doing we might see an era of peace and prosperity...in any place that doesn't have Nauplius in it. |
Jace Sarice
Sarshitra Corporation
4542
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:13:00 -
[249] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote: On the upside, if Nauplius kept doing what he's doing we might see an era of peace and prosperity...in any place that doesn't have Nauplius in it.
I was not commenting on the actual conflict, merely the publicity generated by it. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
1639
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:22:00 -
[250] - Quote
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:The fact In Exile (And by extension, PYRE) and Stormcrows also are in agreement proves that, yes, Nauplius sucks just THAT much.
Ms. Starfire,
I would say for the record that there exists no official agreement on anything at all beyond the prosecution of a contractual obligation on the part of PYRE.
Personally, I do not share any moral or ethical outrage as regards events and matters in question. For if I were to express them, I feel it would be nothing more than an affectation of hypocrisy on my part. I am comfortable with the blood on my own hands, as such I can prefer to be honest with myself and say I fail to care overmuch emotionally for bodycount statistics.
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Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
4007
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:31:00 -
[251] - Quote
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:The fact In Exile (And by extension, PYRE) and Stormcrows also are in agreement proves that, yes, Nauplius sucks just THAT much.
Ms. Starfire, I would say for the record that there exists no official agreement on anything at all beyond the prosecution of a contractual obligation on the part of PYRE. Personally, I do not share any moral or ethical outrage as regards events and matters in question. For if I were to express them, I feel it would be nothing more than an affectation of hypocrisy on my part. I am comfortable with the blood on my own hands, as such I can prefer to be honest with myself and say I fail to care overmuch emotionally for bodycount statistics.
You're just bitter because you didn't get the skiing holiday, right? "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
716
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:36:00 -
[252] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:The fleet even began hunting my poor, innocent Industrial pilot and brother, Clytoneus GÇö who was only following orders GÇö gatecamping him and trying to shoot his pod.
He's your brother?
Good to know.
Quote:The worst was yet to come. A representative from Gradient corporation, enemies of the Empire, arrived in system and took possession of the surviving slaves. Yes, that is right GÇö PIE and In Exile were working together to shoot lawful members of the 24th Imperial Crusade and turn any surviving slaves over to GÇö of all people GÇö Gradient. This is treason.
Repeating this doesn't make it any more true. Stormcrows offered their recoveries to Gradient. PIE has not.
But it wouldn't matter whether the recovered slaves stay in the Empire or go to the Republic, they are better off anywhere that is away from you. |
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
737
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Posted - 2014.08.25 18:17:00 -
[253] - Quote
... ah, pity. Ah well, PIE staying true to form is to be expected. I'll just go drag that pleasant surprise behind the shed and have it shot, shall I? Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
1639
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Posted - 2014.08.25 18:31:00 -
[254] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:The fact In Exile (And by extension, PYRE) and Stormcrows also are in agreement proves that, yes, Nauplius sucks just THAT much.
Ms. Starfire, I would say for the record that there exists no official agreement on anything at all beyond the prosecution of a contractual obligation on the part of PYRE. Personally, I do not share any moral or ethical outrage as regards events and matters in question. For if I were to express them, I feel it would be nothing more than an affectation of hypocrisy on my part. I am comfortable with the blood on my own hands, as such I can prefer to be honest with myself and say I fail to care overmuch emotionally for bodycount statistics. You're just bitter because you didn't get the skiing holiday, right?
Bitterness often presupposes regrets of which I have none, and that aside I have felt no current need for a recreational hiatus from my present work.
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Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
4008
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Posted - 2014.08.25 21:47:00 -
[255] - Quote
Veikitamo Gesakaarin, Ladies and Gentlemen. Available for work functions, wedding functions and children's parties.
Well, okay, not wedding functions. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Shiori Shaishi
Terpalen Trading Corporation
89
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Posted - 2014.08.25 21:59:00 -
[256] - Quote
The small gods governing structural collapse do seem to favor the Stormcrows. Maybe it's a sign? |
Kyllsa Siikanen
Gradient
342
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Posted - 2014.08.25 22:59:00 -
[257] - Quote
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:The fact In Exile (And by extension, PYRE) and Stormcrows also are in agreement proves that, yes, Nauplius sucks just THAT much.
Ms. Starfire, I would say for the record that there exists no official agreement on anything at all beyond the prosecution of a contractual obligation on the part of PYRE. Personally, I do not share any moral or ethical outrage as regards events and matters in question. For if I were to express them, I feel it would be nothing more than an affectation of hypocrisy on my part. I am comfortable with the blood on my own hands, as such I can prefer to be honest with myself and say I fail to care overmuch emotionally for bodycount statistics.
I am not Ava Starfire. GÇ£Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.GÇ¥-á
GÇò C.S. Lewis-á |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
1639
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Posted - 2014.08.25 23:36:00 -
[258] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Veikitamo Gesakaarin, Ladies and Gentlemen. Available for work functions, wedding functions and children's parties.
Well, okay, not wedding functions.
Only when the service fee is paid up front and the contracting party is aware of the use and function of ground beacons in a Tactical Orbital Strike.
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:I am not Ava Starfire.
My apologies, Sebiestor can all look the same for me at times. |
Naraish Adarn
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
100
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Posted - 2014.08.26 01:09:00 -
[259] - Quote
More i hear of Nauplius' foolishness more im tempted join the hunt if not only briefly, unfortunately my duties seem to work against me being able to venture into known space for extended periods of time. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2014.08.26 04:14:00 -
[260] - Quote
Naraish Adarn wrote:More i hear of Nauplius' foolishness more im tempted join the hunt if not only briefly, unfortunately my duties seem to work against me being able to venture into known space for extended periods of time.
If you are doing that, do me a favour and send my regards to him in the form of live ammunition. I'm stuck doing planetside duties as of late. Testing new automation algorithm on the extractor heads and container-tram system. |
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Arista Shahni
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
160
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Posted - 2014.08.27 00:29:00 -
[261] - Quote
Aracturus wrote: 5edgy3me.
Seriously ari, did we run out of coffee at the Noir? You could have just said so instead of going on warpath.
I'm actually home in the Kingdom at the moment.
"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also. -áAnd as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all." |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1226
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Posted - 2014.08.28 13:24:00 -
[262] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:You really don't know how to open your mouth without saying something stupid, do you Kim? Why all forum loudmouths try to insult me with their own flaws, and then grunt when I just come back at them with what they brought?... Really, Stitcher. Did I tell you already that Im tired of your ignorance? Okay, I will tell it again.
Stitcher wrote: In case you're not aware, so far as we can tell, the only culture in all of New Eden never to practice any kind of slavery at any time in its history would be the Caldari.
In case you're not aware, that's the point that I was bringing almost in majority of slavery discussions. But yes, Mr. Stitcher can write, Mr. Stitcher can't read. Or maybe can, but contents of his head looks like not clinging enough to information, if it won't allow him to insult other party.
Stitcher wrote: Oh, sure, people pull out this apologist explanation how that's only because we focus on the practical downsides rather than the morality of freedom, but given that greatest-common-good practicality is a Caldari moral principle, it follows that anything impractical is also immoral according to Caldari ethics. After all, we're under no obligation to agree with foreign powers that slavery is immoral for what they define as "the right reasons".
All I said was that in my opinion, slavery is immoral. I never explained WHY I think it's immoral.
At first, I thought you would say something really not stupid, but then it came down to "impractical is immoral". I really don't feel I want to start to discuss this sentence and find examples where it would be true (yes! but only in some cases) and false, I will just add, that your attempt to understand Caldari mindset is very shallow and pathetic. |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
847
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Posted - 2014.09.18 21:36:00 -
[263] - Quote
For the people that wondered, thanks to miss Hoshi Karasawa, the rescued slaves have recovered from their worst injuries and have been given a new start in their lives!
Rescued slaves given the chance for a better life!
In short, these rescued slaves now have found safety in either the Republic, through Anabella Rella, member of Gradient or the Aurora Arcology Project. Both organisations will do their best to assist these people in a life where they can make decisions of their own, leading a life of their own choosing. Rescued slaves given the chance for a better life! -áClassified Republic Security Services Document surfaced, contents unknown! |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1253
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Posted - 2014.09.19 01:26:00 -
[264] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:For the people that wondered, thanks to miss Hoshi Karasawa, the rescued slaves have recovered from their worst injuries and have been given a new start in their lives! Rescued slaves given the chance for a better life!In short, these rescued slaves now have found safety in either the Republic, through Anabella Rella, member of Gradient or the Aurora Arcology Project. Both organisations will do their best to assist these people in a life where they can make decisions of their own, leading a life of their own choosing. They should have been returned to the Empire. Ms. Ymladris, you have been committed a grave mistake, giving them into hands of a half-wit person. I would avoid transfer of any slaves or other property towards Republic, since the Republic is currently hostile to the State. Giving them anything can be considered as support of an enemy, and such action can be interpreted as a treason. At least, if there is an undeniable need to transfer something to the Republic, please consult the Empire officials first (since said slaves could be property or citizens of the Empire), and... well, please work with Republic officials as well, not a random criminal, who, taking in account her history, could easily turn these slaves into terrorists to attack the State or the Empire.
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Deitra Vess
Dead Men Rising Circle-Of-Two
42
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Posted - 2014.09.19 01:58:00 -
[265] - Quote
Don't return them to their own people, that's wrong in so many ways....... Yep. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1253
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Posted - 2014.09.19 03:28:00 -
[266] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:Don't return them to their own people, that's wrong in so many ways....... Yep. Why do you think they all are Republic people? Maybe they were born and live all their lives in the Empire, which is more likely. And that's why it's better to consult first with Amarr representative than just give peoples into hands of known terrorist, just because they are of the same... race. As far as I understand, there are no slaves in the Republic, while it is only in the Empire slavery is legally allowed. This means, if you got a slave in your posession (which is, I have to say, is illegal in most territories), you should first contact the Amarr Empire. |
Deitra Vess
Dead Men Rising Circle-Of-Two
42
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Posted - 2014.09.19 04:16:00 -
[267] - Quote
Never known anyone who volunteered to be a slave, nor have I known anyone who wished they were born one. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1253
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Posted - 2014.09.19 04:43:00 -
[268] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:Never known anyone who volunteered to be a slave, nor have I known anyone who wished they were born one. I have met a slave only once. She was very polite person, who was defending honor of her holder in her absence. Of course, I mean proper Amarr slave, not some sort of Sansha flesh drone. |
Deitra Vess
Dead Men Rising Circle-Of-Two
42
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Posted - 2014.09.19 04:58:00 -
[269] - Quote
I think we can agree sansha is a totally different thing, but what was that about gallante people being brainwashed in their ways? You met one slave who really could be considered brainwashed under your own logic. They grew up a slave, that's all they know. Much like the Gallante you despise. What makes them different? Gallante Citizens can leave their realm of influence freely. If they feel the ways forced down their throats is wrong they can simply leave. Ask that slave you met to do the same, oh yeah,..... They can't. I'm sure given freedom, some would go back (why I don't know), but by their own choice, not because they can't. So why force subjugation on them? Why not let them think for themselves? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1253
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Posted - 2014.09.19 07:05:00 -
[270] - Quote
What makes you think they can't think for themselves? As far as I remember, this slave was actually managing affairs of her holder, and that requires quite a lot of thinking. I bet way more thinking that her holder.
As for brainwashing. You see, that slave was polite, loyal, respectful and dutiful. I would call it proper upbringing. But if it is brainwashing, it is the best damn brainwashing you can find in our cluster, because qualities that this slave was "brainwashed" to are the best qualities of a human being. When I was looking at this slave, I was questioning myself, why we all can't be like her?..
And take these gallenteans on other hand. What are they brainwashed to? That hedonism, freedom, democracy, individualism are good?.. Anyone with just a bit of brains and thinking abilities can easily show that any and all of these concepts are evil, destructive and anti-humane. And what we get as a result? Gallentean kids, who can do terrible things, justifying themselves with "I am free derp-derp gallentean derp-derp, i can do whatever I want !" |
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