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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
95
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Posted - 2011.11.22 19:54:00 -
[91] - Quote
This is the feature that made me resub.
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren |
Starbuck Mulligann
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
2
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Posted - 2011.11.22 19:55:00 -
[92] - Quote
This is so awesome! bookmark management has always been cumbersome and this is a huge improvement.
Can you throw in Alliance bookmarks while you're at it? |
lebniz
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
0
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Posted - 2011.11.22 20:00:00 -
[93] - Quote
So CCP made the point a few posts up that bookmarks need to be saved on the server so that the server can trust that the location information is valid. In other words, if we could edit the bookmark files on our computer, we could easily make super-deep safespots, or something else game-breaking. This is a very good point that I didn't think of when I made my original post about exporting bookmarks..
However, CCP: Please don't neglect the last point I made in my post. If we can't export bookmarks, then please give me some easy way to copy them from one character to another!
I'm certainly not the only person with multiple tactical bookmarks on nearly every gate in at least 2 or 3 regions, plus multiple safespots, off-grids, and assorted other bookmarks for dozens of systems. This is a couple hundred bookmarks! There has got to be some reasonable way of getting this data from one character to another without individually copying and trading them. I really don't think that such a restriction prevents any negative behavior in-game, and in fact serves only as an inconvenience to players. It is an unnecessary restriction and is the sort of thing that makes people grumble about CCP, and seems like exactly the sort of thing you guys are aiming to fix these days.
Maybe we could eve-mail large numbers of bookmarks? At the very least, if we can't be allowed to send them from one character to another across long distances, please fix the UI associated with duplicating and moving them, so it would be simpler to contract all of my bookmarks to my other character. As it is right now, they have to be copied one at a time (or in small groups) and this is incredibly tedious in large numbers.. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Limitless Inc.
195
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Posted - 2011.11.22 20:07:00 -
[94] - Quote
Good stuff. Also hi Tux, been a while. this is a signature |
Janeway84
Masters Of Destiny ORPHANS OF EVE
0
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Posted - 2011.11.22 20:15:00 -
[95] - Quote
freaking awesome! this will be a great thing for corps of all sizes probably |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Ev0ke
28
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Posted - 2011.11.22 20:16:00 -
[96] - Quote
lebniz wrote:So CCP made the point a few posts up that bookmarks need to be saved on the server so that the server can trust that the location information is valid. In other words, if we could edit the bookmark files on our computer, we could easily make super-deep safespots, or something else game-breaking. This is a very good point that I didn't think of when I made my original post about exporting bookmarks..
That's not really a problem. Export both a bookmarks12.xml and a bookmarks12.sig generated with DSA or PKCS7. Verify the signature upon submission for import. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1218
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Posted - 2011.11.22 20:16:00 -
[97] - Quote
Very sweet, but please can you add alliance bookmarks for the many tens of thousands of players who operate in alliances? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Limitless Inc.
195
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Posted - 2011.11.22 20:18:00 -
[98] - Quote
lebniz wrote:So CCP made the point a few posts up that bookmarks need to be saved on the server so that the server can trust that the location information is valid. In other words, if we could edit the bookmark files on our computer, we could easily make super-deep safespots, or something else game-breaking. This is a very good point that I didn't think of when I made my original post about exporting bookmarks..
However, CCP: Please don't neglect the last point I made in my post. If we can't export bookmarks, then please give me some easy way to copy them from one character to another!
I'm certainly not the only person with multiple tactical bookmarks on nearly every gate in at least 2 or 3 regions, plus multiple safespots, off-grids, and assorted other bookmarks for dozens of systems. This is a couple hundred bookmarks! There has got to be some reasonable way of getting this data from one character to another without individually copying and trading them. I really don't think that such a restriction prevents any negative behavior in-game, and in fact serves only as an inconvenience to players. It is an unnecessary restriction and is the sort of thing that makes people grumble about CCP, and seems like exactly the sort of thing you guys are aiming to fix these days.
Maybe we could eve-mail large numbers of bookmarks? At the very least, if we can't be allowed to send them from one character to another across long distances, please fix the UI associated with duplicating and moving them, so it would be simpler to contract all of my bookmarks to my other character. As it is right now, they have to be copied one at a time (or in small groups) and this is incredibly tedious in large numbers..
I disagree with you. I've also many bm's in alot of systems, if not all regions in this game, we're talking thousands of bm's per character in the usual case. I'm also a guy who used to have the 'corp role' to do all bookmark copying, back in the day before WTZ and when you could only copy five bm's a time. I wouldn't be surprised if I had copied more in the hundred-thousands of bm's rather than the tens of thousands.
So I should agree with you, thinking about all the hard work I've done and how your suggestion would make my life easier? That's exactly why I don't agree with you, actually. I've put an awful lot of time in this game to get my bm's together, and I've put an awful lot of time sharing them too. And I still do it. Most my bm's I use in combat is not shared either, I've given myself a 'personalized advantage', and I'd like to believe I deserve it for all the hard ass work I put through too (that's another reason I'm not entirely happy I lost my super-safes, I spent time on those..).
TL;DR - if you put an effort into something, you should get an advantage. That's my opinion. If you start to make sharing and spreading too easy, people just get a bonus that isn't really deserved. The only setback with this too, would be the risk of having your own bm's "compromised", which is usually not a big issue either.
I think this addition of corp bm's is quite good, perhaps the limit of 250 is a bit too big, that's all. this is a signature |
lebniz
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
0
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Posted - 2011.11.22 20:25:00 -
[99] - Quote
Misanth wrote: So I should agree with you, thinking about all the hard work I've done and how your suggestion would make my life easier? That's exactly why I don't agree with you, actually. I've put an awful lot of time in this game to get my bm's together, and I've put an awful lot of time sharing them too. And I still do it. Most my bm's I use in combat is not shared either, I've given myself a 'personalized advantage', and I'd like to believe I deserve it for all the hard ass work I put through too (that's another reason I'm not entirely happy I lost my super-safes, I spent time on those..).
TL;DR - if you put an effort into something, you should get an advantage. That's my opinion. If you start to make sharing and spreading too easy, people just get a bonus that isn't really deserved. The only setback with this too, would be the risk of having your own bm's "compromised", which is usually not a big issue either.
I think you misunderstood me. I have two characters, and I would like to be able to take advantage of all the hard work I've done on both of those characters. I'm not saying that somebody should force you to share your bookmarks if you don't want to. I just want to be able to use the bookmarks that I made with Lebniz on my alt character as well. I don't think I should have to be subjected to the tedium of remaking all of them or copying them over one by one.
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Jax Blake
The Ankou Raiden.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 20:29:00 -
[100] - Quote
+1 for wanting the ability to make corp bookmarks be restricted to a corp role, communications officer is fine by me. |
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Firartix
Sense of Serendipity Echoes of Nowhere
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 21:22:00 -
[101] - Quote
Corp bookmarks?!!! My life is complete. |
AirellX
Eden's Knights of Malta P R I M E
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 21:39:00 -
[102] - Quote
Anvil44 wrote: Or a password protected folder as we might not wish to share all bm's with all members of a corp? New members should not necessarily have the coordinates to the entrance to your wh. Some safety from spies.
Otherwise, I like this very much.
+1
Yes! Or have Corp Bookmarks Divisions, like in the Hangers and Orca's and such, but this is a really good start!!! |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
41
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Posted - 2011.11.22 21:57:00 -
[103] - Quote
cant wait to use this feature to hit unsuspecting plexers after my afk cloaky alt logged off in system 5 minutes before! especially now they think theyre safe!
yum! |
Persephone Ziodex
Ziodex Investments
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 22:13:00 -
[104] - Quote
Can we control who in the corp has access to see the bookmarks, or will this be globally available for everyone to see regardless of the roles that they have assigned? |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
152
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Posted - 2011.11.22 23:21:00 -
[105] - Quote
lebniz wrote:[copying bookmarks between characters]
Now you can. Create an alt corp, join it temporarily with both chars, copy 250 BMs from your main to the corp, copy them from the corp to the alt. Repeat as many times as necessary.
I know it's not perfect, but it beats copying them 5 at a time. |
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CCP Tuxford
C C P C C P Alliance
47
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Posted - 2011.11.22 23:45:00 -
[106] - Quote
lebniz wrote: I'm certainly not the only person with multiple tactical bookmarks on nearly every gate in at least 2 or 3 regions, plus multiple safespots, off-grids, and assorted other bookmarks for dozens of systems. This is a couple hundred bookmarks! There has got to be some reasonable way of getting this data from one character to another without individually copying and trading them. I really don't think that such a restriction prevents any negative behavior in-game, and in fact serves only as an inconvenience to players. It is an unnecessary restriction and is the sort of thing that makes people grumble about CCP, and seems like exactly the sort of thing you guys are aiming to fix these days.
We have in fact considered allowing people to share bookmarks directly. That is I could actually give another player a bookmark. There are a number of design decisions that need to be made. For example a scout could instantly share a location with it's fleet which may or may not be a bad thing but is definitely a change in the mechanic. It is however to soon to rage about the ramification of such a change but it's a good mental exercise nonetheless.
You are definitely not the only person that has multiple bookmarks on each gate over multiple regions but are bookmarks really the correct way to fill your need? We use bookmarks now to get more strategic warp in points to celestials because that is what we have. Now is there a mechanic that would replace your need so people wouldn't have to have many thousand of bookmarks. Food for thought anyway
https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates |
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Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 00:00:00 -
[107] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote:Reading this I already knew it was amazing, but when I paid more attention, and spotted... Quote:Oh wait we also moved the location folder structure to the server which means that no longer will your bookmarks be lost to cache issues on your end. CCP Guys n Gals, that is such a cool thing, there are hardly words for it... :)
So, I imagine this will come along with a relatively modest allowance that would easily get used up by a decent scout that had 4 tactical around every gate in their roaming reach (and a 40 jump roam isn't uncommon). You need at least one off grid, one just on grid.. Best to have a sniper spot.. and if you're inclined to bomb now and then a handful more at potential targets. For many gates you'll have sling bubble anchoring book marks etc.
Now, IGÇÖm not 100% against an isk based fee (which will logically have a real $ aurum easy conversion plan) to increase your bookmark quota but it isn't exactly pleasant being charged for something that you used to get for free.
I suppose there is some increased utility for those that care to share bookmarks (although certainly the 250 number is far too small to include tactical warp in spots for too many locations)... paying concord for extra utility isn't the end of the world....
.... yet, I do hope there is an import export function so that bookmarks could be taken out of game then sorted into folder and have names edited in a more friendly data administering window with word processing features etc.
That would make it even easier to share bookmarks (or maybe people do this already by having found the file where they've been stored ? ) if eliminating unnecessarily tedius activities is the goal ?
Is eliminating tedious activities the goal?
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Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 00:00:00 -
[108] - Quote
duplicate |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
102
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 00:08:00 -
[109] - Quote
Yay, worm hole corps rejoice! |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
102
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 00:14:00 -
[110] - Quote
CCP Tuxford wrote:We have in fact considered allowing people to share bookmarks directly. That is I could actually give another player a bookmark. There are a number of design decisions that need to be made. For example a scout could instantly share a location with it's fleet which may or may not be a bad thing but is definitely a change in the mechanic. It is however to soon to rage about the ramification of such a change but it's a good mental exercise nonetheless.
Why not allow us to warp to a Cartesian coordinate? I know there are some concerns about safe spots outside the reasonable scanner range, but wasn't some sort of boundary algorithm created recently to deal with deep safes?
What is it, furthest from star by way of Pythagorean's theorem plus 10 AU or something? Flag the far object as the "far one", server side check on that plus 10 AU should be cake.
Anyways, good job on the shared BMs, defiantly a needed improvement. |
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Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 00:26:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Tuxford wrote:You are definitely not the only person that has multiple bookmarks on each gate over multiple regions but are bookmarks really the correct way to fill your need? We use bookmarks now to get more strategic warp in points to celestials because that is what we have. Now is there a mechanic that would replace your need so people wouldn't have to have many thousand of bookmarks. Food for thought anyway
Well, IGÇÖve always thought it would be nice to have a coordinate system with the center of an object at 0 on the x, y, and z axii . It would make it very easy to warp in just where you wanted.. place a drag bubble very quickly without work or effort, or have quickly warp to anyone on gridGǪ(if youGÇÖre clever and quick with that sort of thing)
GǪ but, warping to anyone on grid entirely changes many current combat dynamics
GǪ and easyGǪ too easy takes away from the game.. many things are made deliberately difficult (scanning certainly can be delegated to a crew member with only answers given without any of the pilotGÇÖs manipulation of probe orbs for instance.. but there is a goal to make it a game of skill)
Of course it sounds like youGÇÖve discussed all of those things and know them far better than I do .
I'd like to empahsize though that rewarding preparation and effort pilots make to gain an edge isnGÇÖt something that should be eliminated.
There are different types of tedious.
tediously manipulating a wonky user interface and draggign and droppin hundreds of objects is bad tediously flying your space ship with though and precision to get the right tacticals is much different... still tedious but more logically so and promoting more ship flying which is good.
I suspect that one of the primary goals of the change is that some groups have figured out how to crack what is kept client side and share files over the internet immediately in an unlimited way GǪ. Maybe even cracked the internal reference system to be able to create a bookmark by entering the desired coordinates into a third party program and having the data file amended live (and shot to cohorts?)
That youGÇÖre taking action is greatGǪ if thatGÇÖs the reasonGǪ. donGÇÖt get me wrongGǪ Personally IGÇÖd rather hear that reason of prevention of exploits than scratching my head wondering if the GÇ£giftGÇ¥ of the improvement really hides a nerf of some aspects of what we already have.
But again, I donGÇÖt know if there is such an exploit.. but ImGÇÖ curious.
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mkint
385
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 02:22:00 -
[112] - Quote
Shander Maxum wrote:CCP Tuxford wrote:You are definitely not the only person that has multiple bookmarks on each gate over multiple regions but are bookmarks really the correct way to fill your need? We use bookmarks now to get more strategic warp in points to celestials because that is what we have. Now is there a mechanic that would replace your need so people wouldn't have to have many thousand of bookmarks. Food for thought anyway Well, IGÇÖve always thought it would be nice to have a coordinate system with the center of an object at 0 on the x, y, and z axii . It would make it very easy to warp in just where you wanted.. place a drag bubble very quickly without work or effort, or have quickly warp to anyone on gridGǪ(if youGÇÖre clever and quick with that sort of thing) GǪ but, warping to anyone on grid entirely changes many current combat dynamics GǪ and easyGǪ too easy takes away from the game.. many things are made deliberately difficult (scanning certainly can be delegated to a crew member with only answers given without any of the pilotGÇÖs manipulation of probe orbs for instance.. but there is a goal to make it a game of skill) Of course it sounds like youGÇÖve discussed all of those things and know them far better than I do . I'd like to empahsize though that rewarding preparation and effort pilots make to gain an edge isnGÇÖt something that should be eliminated. There are different types of tedious. tediously manipulating a wonky user interface and draggign and droppin hundreds of objects is bad tediously flying your space ship with though and precision to get the right tacticals is much different... still tedious but more logically so and promoting more ship flying which is good. I suspect that one of the primary goals of the change is that some groups have figured out how to crack what is kept client side and share files over the internet immediately in an unlimited way GǪ. Maybe even cracked the internal reference system to be able to create a bookmark by entering the desired coordinates into a third party program and having the data file amended live (and shot to cohorts?) That youGÇÖre taking action is greatGǪ if thatGÇÖs the reasonGǪ. donGÇÖt get me wrongGǪ Personally IGÇÖd rather hear that reason of prevention of exploits than scratching my head wondering if the GÇ£giftGÇ¥ of the improvement really hides a nerf of some aspects of what we already have. But again, I donGÇÖt know if there is such an exploit.. but ImGÇÖ curious. Bookmarks have been server side for years. It has been at least 3 - 4 years since you could find the bm file and edit it directly. The only change with that right now is that if you install your client on a different computer or something you won't lose your folders. Pretty sure they've said that in this thread already. You will not notice anything with that change.
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Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 06:05:00 -
[113] - Quote
I just feel that this system is going to be gamed. This gives an already unbalanced incentive to AFK cloak an even more powerful force to aid large alliances.
Yet, I suspect only the data will show you how destructive the large alliances abuse these mechanics. So yes bring this on TQ and see for yourself. |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Intrepid Crossing
13
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Posted - 2011.11.23 06:12:00 -
[114] - Quote
I like this idea :) |
Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 06:26:00 -
[115] - Quote
Quote:Oh wait we also moved the location folder structure to the server which means that no longer will your bookmarks be lost to cache issues on your end.
I love you guys |
Bratwurst0r
DARK ORCHESTRA
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 06:32:00 -
[116] - Quote
250 is not enough.
Make it dependent on corporation-size please, or we will still copy bm's like crazy. Also not THAT happy with 5min delay, but ok, guess its needed.
All in all its one of the features i'm looking forward to, so good job.
And about the "something better then bms"-discussion: well, as long as we don't have that, make this one feature useful. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 08:14:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:When CCP Tuxford isn't accidentally the whole server
Poor Tux, that incident isn't never going to be forgotten is it? He did manage to cancel it in time and all but still people bring that up.
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Jr Instructorcon
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
53
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Posted - 2011.11.23 09:01:00 -
[118] - Quote
I am not sure CCP understands how much of a pain in the ass this will be for larger corporations. Giving the ability for everyone in the corp to create corp bookmarks will result in tons of bad bookmarks that are either intentionally or accidentally created. With these showing up in the right click menu and the overview, this means a lot of screen spam that could have been easily avoided.
The proposed solution of "just kick the people making bad bookmarks" is inane at best, considering how easy it is to accidentally click the wrong button. Should we kick out new players just to stop them from creating corporate bookmarks? Isn't CCP trying to retain new players? What about the poor individual who gets to go through the 250 new bookmarks every day? Why is CCP dumping more work and grind on its players?
There seriously needs to either be a role or an option to limit who can create corp bookmarks. Straight kicking of players who create bad bookmarks, either intentionally or by accident, is stupid, and will catch more newbies than anything else, which is what our corporation is mostly composed of. Introducing this feature as is will result in more work being put on the already strained backs of those who manage corporations, and will generate dissent and a loss of newbie retention as directors are forced to kick players from their corp over a "feature". |
Mr M
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
44
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 09:05:00 -
[119] - Quote
250 bookmarks isn't very much though.
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Project 69
Rennfeuer Curatores Veritatis Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 09:33:00 -
[120] - Quote
add an "expiration date" too so BMs just vanish once it's reached (deleted on downtime) |
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