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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
829
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:54:00 -
[181] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:DaReaper wrote:I did not read the entire thread, too much 'grrr goons' and too long. You're missing all the content though
The content in this case that I see is a bunch of children making circular arguments that no one but CCP can answer or address. Its pointless and stupid.
Matters not what a segment thinks, CCP is the dictator of eve, end of story.
"But goons exploited"
"nu-uh we didn't!"
"yes you did!"
"no we didn't"
and the response form empror CCP "Don't worry about it" boom, end of discussion, not an exploit.
Make them aware, let them reply or chose not to, but seriously why people think goon or any alliance, as I said it used to be bob, runs how eve works just looks like an idiot.
But enjoy the petty arguments. In a room full of dumb blondes, EvE is the smart red head on the other side of the room.-á Lots of men like dumb blondes, and not everyone will like the smart red head, but she doesn;t need to change to be a dumb blonde.-á She is perfect how she is.-á Thats EvE vs other mmo's.-á You either like the red head, or you don't. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1189
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 19:57:00 -
[182] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Soldarius wrote:API coverage of hostile siphon activities for starters. You really do make this too easy. I like this "I'm right because I'm right" thing you've got going. It's about as good as "we're right because we say we are" from the other side of the argument... This side of the argument is working from facts only.
The fact that the only version from CCP that we have say it's not supposed to be showing the info? You assume they made a 180 on that design while the other side assume they derped the api implementation of it. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11062
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 19:59:00 -
[183] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:The fact that the only version from CCP that we have say it's not supposed to be showing the info? We have patch notes which say nothing of the sort.
Frostys Virpio wrote:You assume they made a 180 on that design while the other side assume they derped the api implementation of it. I think it's more likely they did, yeah. Considering it's not in the patch notes, considering changes were made to the module between then and release, and considering how bad of an idea it is to have the API provide intentionally inaccurate data. It may not have even been feasible to do. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan
418
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:02:00 -
[184] - Quote
i done geddit "Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
382
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:07:00 -
[185] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Regardless of the above, still not an exploit to look at your own API data. I mean what options would we have to avoid it if it were an exploit? Refuse to look at our API data? Unreasonable. Pretend we didn't see it? Unreasonable. It wouldn't be an exploit to continue using the API, but if it was used explicitly for this purpose without CCP being told then it was an exploit. And you prove this how?
If siphons were being consistently killed within hours of being onlined, with no eyes in the system before the kill squad appeared, and the kill squad didn't appear to be on some sort of siphon patrol, it would be strong circumstantial evidence of exploitation.
If some corps were actively squashing siphons very quickly, while neighboring corps were not, it would be some circumstantial evidence of exploitation.
If someone came forward and said, "yup, we noticed this **** right away, and were very careful to keep it quiet as hell so we could continue to harvest stupid pubbie siphons from fools who thought they were being sneaky" . . . there's some direct evidence of exploitation.
But common sense and logic tells you that every major coalition - all with an IT structure that easily exceeds that of most small businesses - knew from day one that they were able to obtain data from the API that CCP explicitly said should not be viewable. It would take very little additional evidence for CCP to start handing out bans - they don't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Flip side is that this issue just cropped up within the past week, and hasn't been an ongoing issue. Super doubtful, but would likely resolve any real concerns about exploiting the system.
I am not an alt of Chribba. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1189
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:10:00 -
[186] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:The fact that the only version from CCP that we have say it's not supposed to be showing the info? We have patch notes which say nothing of the sort. Frostys Virpio wrote:You assume they made a 180 on that design while the other side assume they derped the api implementation of it. I think it's more likely they did, yeah. Considering it's not in the patch notes, considering changes were made to the module between then and release, and considering how bad of an idea it is to have the API provide intentionally inaccurate data. It may not have even been feasible to do.
Yeah most bugs are usually non mentionned in patch notes so a non documented "feature" can either be intended or not. In this case, it's not documented in the official change log, not documented in the post about the modification to the syphon unit and documented in the initial syphon proposal. They would not of mentionned it was changing when they edited the syphon while they did mention all the other change because :reasons: I guess.
The API giving false data is not that bad of an idea if it's intended for an ingame mechanic to work that way. It's most likely mean the siphon, lore wise, is hacking the tower to steal stuff from it but also give it the wrong data about what it contain to hide it's theft. Then your API check would question the tower in question which would report the data it has which would be wrong because the siphon unit is cheezing it to hide it's effect. This would make siphon actually not as stupid as they are if they were implemented that way. If it was not possible to do so, CCP should of told the player base that the feature had to be changed because of a technical hurdle making it impossible. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
2026
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:15:00 -
[187] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:So, if what james & co say is true, it implies several things.
First, you have to understand that siphons were quite literally the first and only real tool ccp ever gave to smaller entities to screw larger entities. And it worked, kinda. You can find posts from every major alliance, but goonswarm and PL in particular have quite a few bitching about the little things. Both organizations instituted policy specifically to deal with siphons.
Second, removing the immunity to api detection basically castrates the bloody thing. The point of the thing was that you needed people in space to know if you were being siphoned. No people = no intel = your goo gets jacked. Since the blocs have way more space than they ever use, this makes siphons an ideal tool against them, again assuming no api detection. It also *may* explain why we've been able to siphon goo off with impunity off of the shittier (aka non-goonswarm) cfc entities but any siphon operations on goonswarm towers are quickly shut down outside of a particular time bracket.
Third, backtracking on the api detection represents a full cave-in to the whims of the blocs. This was the first and only thing that could actually f*ck blocs a tiny bit that they themselves can't use. Goons and PL don't siphon, because in most cases doing so would violate their existing treaties. But goons (and to a lesser extent PL) were most of the people that opposed siphons.
If true, to me it sends the message that CCP will cater to the whims of the blocs on just about every f*cking issue under the sun, even when that issue is specifically designed to hurt said blocs (a tiny bit). Further, because CCP themselves suggested the API immunity, it means they damn well understand what happens if you don't have said api immunity. And that just makes it shittier
So, if what james & co say is true, it would pi*ss me off something fierce, and it would disappoint a whole lot of the player base. Apparently, 'PotatoOverdoes in Ancient Aramaic translates to "Dinsdale was here" Disregarding the ad hominem, how is what I said not true? Go to this thread. Who opposed the initial design of the api immune system? The same people against whom the system was targeted. Who got exactly what they wanted? Those people.
Mallak Azaria wrote: Let me tell you about how I reported it as soon as I realised that the API was not in fact lying to me, and was told "Don't worry about it" by CCP.
If this is true than I have one thing to say: f*ck this game. It deserves to lose all the subs it's been losing. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
670
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:25:00 -
[188] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:E-2C Hawkeye wrote:People dont use siphons for the isk. They use it for the effect. On top of this problem people are running garbage interactions on the front end to make siphons useless anyhow.
Siphons need to be looked at again to make more of a burden for the large alliances. What effect? I mean seriously, if they make a couple of million per hour, the effect is that the alliance loses a couple of million per hour IF they don't find and loot it. You'd be better off nuking ratters. Most people dont do it for the isk I know that may be hard to believe, but majority do it to harass the pos owner/alliance/corp. Some one has to look for and remove the siphon which can provide content.
Would be nice to break even or be able to remove the siphon once placed.
For me it was NEVER about making isk.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11062
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:40:00 -
[189] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Yeah most bugs are usually non mentionned in patch notes so a non documented "feature" can either be intended or not. This is completely irrelevant to what we're discussing. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Thomas Harding
Flaming Sideburns Social Club
26
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:46:00 -
[190] - Quote
Thing that really bothers me with these things is that they make you think that maybe Dinsdale is...
And then you realize you already downed more than half of that Russian standard platinum and just shrug your shoulders.
Until it happens again.
Not sure who's to blame; CCP, Dinsdale, vodka or, hey I know, grrr goons.
Anyways, this thread needs dev post.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1191
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:49:00 -
[191] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Yeah most bugs are usually non mentionned in patch notes so a non documented "feature" can either be intended or not. This is completely irrelevant to what we're discussing.
It actually is because you used the patch notes to prove it was not intended because it was not there. There are instance where stuff were not in the patch note and actually were intended changes and change which were in the patch note not working as intended. This basicaly mean the patch notes is only of value if CCP confirm it some time after.
I must admit now that I missed a the post where ti was mentioned the issue was reported and the guy was told to not worry about it. I can't assume the poster is lying so either CCP didn't care enough to mention this change in the design of the siphon unit (what's the god damn point of stealing something if you don't try to hide the fact it's getting stolen) or don't care enough to fix something not working as intended. In both case, it's horse ****... |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8807
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:14:00 -
[192] - Quote
So, the end result is that nullsec did know about it (I guess I'm just ill informed from lack of owning a moon pos), and not only did CCP know about it as a result, they also don't care?
Hilarious.
Now I am going to go back and read all the bitter tears about this. See you in a few pages, folks. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11067
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:32:00 -
[193] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Yeah most bugs are usually non mentionned in patch notes so a non documented "feature" can either be intended or not. This is completely irrelevant to what we're discussing. It actually is because you used the patch notes to prove it was not intended because it was not there. I didn't prove anything. I used the patch notes, among other things, to suggest the likelihood of them having changed their minds. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1031
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:59:00 -
[194] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:If this is true than I have one thing to say: f*ck this game. It deserves to lose all the subs it's been losing. I understand that it must be very frustrating to be in MoA these days but these kinds of comments aren't helpful. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Kaaii
Kaaii-Net Research Labs KAAII-NET
36
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 22:01:00 -
[195] - Quote
Goons cheating, who knew! |
Prince Kobol
2029
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 22:19:00 -
[196] - Quote
Here is the Dev Blog about Siphon Units
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/stop-the-thief-siphon-units-in-rubicon/
Here is the Wiki entry for deployable units which contains information regards siphon units
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Personal_Deployable_Structures
Here you can view all the patch notes for Rubicon (as well as others)
http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-rubicon
Somebody show me anywhere CCP talks about the API in regards to Siphon Units.
I can not find any official reference to how the API interacts with Siphon Units. To me this means that we have no idea how CCP intended the API to work.
My guess is CCP don't even know but I am sure they will come up with something snappy like "its working as intended" or "we are looking in to it", you know, the usually same old that we have come to expect when they mess something up and get all embarrassed about it.
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General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
227
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 22:35:00 -
[197] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So, the end result is that nullsec did know about it (I guess I'm just ill informed from lack of owning a moon pos), and not only did CCP know about it as a result, they also don't care?
Hilarious.
Now I am going to go back and read all the bitter tears about this. See you in a few pages, folks.
After reading this entire thread, i have found out you live in highsec, for your entire eve life. that is nice to know, please stop being rude to npc poster and people that dont post with their mains. there are reasons for this, that you will never understand. please go back to your mining and mission running.
tia. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5321
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 22:40:00 -
[198] - Quote
So what does the siphon unit look like anyway? I imagine a large red floating gas can with a hose. I'm too busy RL sperglording to check right now. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
227
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Posted - 2014.08.14 22:40:00 -
[199] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Hicksimus wrote:Posting in another terrible thread being made worse by members of the npc corporations. FTFY CCP the fix to this problem is removing NPC corps.
What is wrong with NPC posters?
NOTHING,
They are paying accounts just like you. They have the right to post and point out exploits or things ccp forgot about. if your only defense in this situation is "LOL NPC CORP" then you sir need to lay off the koolaid and start thinking like an adult. attacking the poster is not a good way to pretend you are innocent nor does it make you a "gudpoaster".
pro tip, if you disagree with someone, write a response directed at that posters post and call them out about it, not the stupid corp under his name. |
Grog Aftermath
Need more grog
38
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Posted - 2014.08.14 22:50:00 -
[200] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I wouldn't really say that's an exploit.
Depends, was it working as intended, if not, where people gaining an unfair in-game advantage by using it. |
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
672
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 23:24:00 -
[201] - Quote
the api has always lied since siphons were introduced
however ccp didn't say it would lie well |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6364
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 23:25:00 -
[202] - Quote
Rhes wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:If this is true than I have one thing to say: f*ck this game. It deserves to lose all the subs it's been losing. I understand that it must be very frustrating to be in MoA these days but these kinds of comments aren't helpful. I might be teaching some of our newbies about the joys of being able to warp cloaked.
I shall mention to them the excitement of siphoning moa's moons. Though, when they have trained cloaking V, frigate V and so on... moa does have moons right? ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8810
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 23:27:00 -
[203] - Quote
General Nusense wrote: After reading this entire thread, i have found out you live in highsec, for your entire eve life. that is nice to know, please stop being rude to npc poster and people that dont post with their mains. there are reasons for this, that you will never understand. please go back to your mining and mission running.
This is a posting alt, slash locator agent alt. I'm rather up front about that, I hide my identity because I was doxxed very badly a few years ago.
Now, if you have more sour grapes for me, please cry some more. I am not all laughed out yet. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
672
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 23:29:00 -
[204] - Quote
by the way for all the people claiming that a ccp dev saying a thing is the word of god, go look at the Crius Issues thread where CCP devs can't even decide if amarr outposts not applying their .5 modifier is intended behavior or a bug |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
672
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 23:31:00 -
[205] - Quote
if you npc-corp highsec-dwelling scrubs seriously think you're going to be able to outlaw the goons always beating you because we know more than you in this game where knowledge is power, i have a bridge to sell you |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5739
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 23:37:00 -
[206] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:General Nusense wrote: After reading this entire thread, i have found out you live in highsec, for your entire eve life. that is nice to know, please stop being rude to npc poster and people that dont post with their mains. there are reasons for this, that you will never understand. please go back to your mining and mission running.
This is a posting alt, slash locator agent alt. I'm rather up front about that, I hide my identity because I was doxxed very badly a few years ago. Now, if you have more sour grapes for me, please cry some more. I am not all laughed out yet.
Priceless.
A forum alt who spends 75% of his posts raging on other forum alts for being forum alts.
You're killing me here. LOL!
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
228
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Posted - 2014.08.14 23:42:00 -
[207] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:General Nusense wrote: After reading this entire thread, i have found out you live in highsec, for your entire eve life. that is nice to know, please stop being rude to npc poster and people that dont post with their mains. there are reasons for this, that you will never understand. please go back to your mining and mission running.
This is a posting alt, slash locator agent alt. I'm rather up front about that, I hide my identity because I was doxxed very badly a few years ago. Now, if you have more sour grapes for me, please cry some more. I am not all laughed out yet.
Great, then why hate on npc posters? You know what happens. |
General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
228
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Posted - 2014.08.14 23:44:00 -
[208] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:LOL I POAST GUD
FTFY.
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
674
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Posted - 2014.08.14 23:47:00 -
[209] - Quote
General Nusense wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:LOL I POAST GUD NAW GIV ME LIKES FTFY. it looks like you did not succeed in fixing that for me, it appears you have as little idea what that acronym means as you do what exploit means |
General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
228
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 23:50:00 -
[210] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:General Nusense wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:LOL I POAST GUD NAW GIV ME LIKES FTFY. it looks like you did not succeed in fixing that for me, it appears you have as little idea what that acronym means as you do what exploit means
oh no, i fixed your crying post. thats what you meant. since you have a hard time putting a sentence together without attacking the poster.
please continue and exploit the rules of the game. i am sure your master would be proud of you f1 button masher #38543 in the apexforce.
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