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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
De'Veldrin
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
2845
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:01:00 -
[91] - Quote
First off, I like it. Forcing PvE players into more situations that resemble PvP can only be good in the long term. It sounds like these missions are going to require you to fit ships that handle themselves, and force the players to learn to use them - skills which should (hopefully) make bridging that gap for those that are interested less of a hurdle.
Very very pleased with the whole concept, and I hope this is one that CCP continues to iterate over up through the ship classes. All my +1s for you Fozzie.
Conjaq wrote:I would be very careful regarding having deadspace modules drop from lvl 4 missions... Slippery slope The dev blog said faction loot, which I take to mean faction (as in Imperial Navy, Republic Fleet, etc), not deadspace (Gistii, Pithii, etc). I may be wrong in my interpretation, obviously. It is worth Fozzie clearing up, just so we know. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Beta Maoye
30
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:01:00 -
[92] - Quote
Great idea!
Why don't you put some "boss" beyond final jump gates of level 4 missions? Additional reward will be given if the boss is down. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
57
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:01:00 -
[93] - Quote
Conjaq wrote:I would be very careful regarding having deadspace modules drop from lvl 4 missions... Slippery slope
so slippery that you can walk up it.
As there is no info on what faction stuff can drop it might only be the useless stuff that sells for penny. |
Nalha Saldana
Saldana Hardware Corporation
808
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:05:00 -
[94] - Quote
Gain them randomly from doing L4s? No this is a terrible idea, a lot of L4 runners dont want them and most who want burner missions dont want L4s at all.
Best solution is definitely to drop keys or similar in L4s that can be sold on market and turned in to a agent to gain a burner mission. This gives those who does L4s the option between isk or burner while those who want to farm them the ability to do it unlimited while still having it regulated by market cost. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
755
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:06:00 -
[95] - Quote
they could make FW missions into this, since it's a good fit, and FW missions need to a complete rethink anyway. |
Kraizer793
Absurdity of Abstractions Capital Punishment.
0
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:07:00 -
[96] - Quote
As awesome as the idea is, I really don't think they'll be used.
The people who will be attracted to this type of mission are, in my experience, the type who won't want to bother grinding out traditional L4's in all their mind-numbing tedium.
The people who like L4's or run them for ISK's sake will likely just skip them. due to the risk and skill involved, just skipping it and going back to blitzing Dread Pirate Scarlet for the seventh time that day is much easier.
They need to be their own brand of mission, able to be done without having to deal with the existing missions which are an exercise in pressing F1 more than they are anything else. I think a lot of people will try them out initially, but after the new feature smell wears off, they'll fall to the wayside.
Perhaps reserve the Burners as "boss fights" for a new strain of mission, and traditional missions of this strain and pockets leading up to the Burner itself would contain less powerful variants of the Burners. 2-4 per pocket, still powerful, and still capable of causing a player to evaluate each mission and situation from a tactical perspective, and not from a "What damage type?" perspective.
+1. Step in the right direction. |
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
107
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:09:00 -
[97] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: also, sig tanking is actually speed tanking. or speed tanking is sig tanking. you cannot separate these things.
They're different when you shoot missiles at them. if you're sitting perfectly still, yes.
Signature tanking is when signature is primary in saving you (dodging damage by being small, inherently small things tend to be fast). Typically relies on not getting hit/receiving a tiny % of the damage by being so small.
Speed tanking is when speed is primary in saving you. It's kiting to the extent that your sheer speed is what keeps you alive, nothing is able to get in range to hit you. The signatur aspect doesn't play in so much (see, MWD Navy Omen. Hardly sig tanking).
Both Signature and Speed tanking can use armor/shield improvements, most often repairs, but those repairs simply deal with what small % of damage is left. Their primary tank is the signature or speed. The difference is most pronounced at the cruiser level, orbiting a battleship up close vs outranging other cruisers from a distance. |
Skyler Hawk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:12:00 -
[98] - Quote
Gotta say, it seems pretty crazy to say "we've made this new and (potentially) interesting pve content, but you've got to slog through a huge chunk of the boring old content to access it."
If the rewards are currently too good for burners to be readily accessible, why not just make them less rewarding and give people another option for their regular pve? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
755
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:12:00 -
[99] - Quote
Kenneth Skybound wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: also, sig tanking is actually speed tanking. or speed tanking is sig tanking. you cannot separate these things.
They're different when you shoot missiles at them. if you're sitting perfectly still, yes. Signature tanking is when signature is primary in saving you (dodging damage by being small, inherently small things tend to be fast). Typically relies on not getting hit/receiving a tiny % of the damage by being so small. Speed tanking is when speed is primary in saving you. It's kiting to the extent that your sheer speed is what keeps you alive, nothing is able to get in range to hit you. The signatur aspect doesn't play in so much (see, MWD Navy Omen. Hardly sig tanking). Both Signature and Speed tanking can use armor/shield improvements, most often repairs, but those repairs simply deal with what small % of damage is left. Their primary tank is the signature or speed. The difference is most pronounced at the cruiser level, orbiting a battleship up close vs outranging other cruisers from a distance.
your idea of speed tanking is actually just kiting and range dictation. |
Dave Stark
6744
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:13:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dev Blog wrote:The fact that these missions can only be received as part of the random level 4 security mission pool should prevent them from being too farmable.
and you've just made them, useless, and ****** content.
if i'm doing level 4 missions, it ain't in a goddamn frigate. it's in a ship that can't do them, it'll get instantly declined and disregarded.
either make them an alternative, or don't bother. just adding in missions i can't complete in my normal mission boat, to my normal mission agent is just another mission that i instantly disregard just like anything in low sec, more than 3 jumps away, or incurs faction standing losses.
on the bright side, at least you know it's a dumb idea and aren't imposing standing losses for your terrible implementation of what could have been an amazing addition to eve. |
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JP Nakamura
Union of Intergalactic Miners and Nano Assemblers
35
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:15:00 -
[101] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Quote:Burner Missions pit you against a single enemy NPC. This NPC is an extremely powerful frigate with stats based on those of a player flying a pirate frigate with officer/deadspace gear, pirate implants, and [b]command links[/b[ Will the NPC have a CS or T3 somewhere on-grid that I can kill?
If we can boost off-grid, what makes you think the NPCs can't also? CCP: 10+ years of Harvesting players Tears -á(latest efforts being Source Limited Edition, and Alliance Logo Revised Policies) |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2848
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:15:00 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Neuting these NPCs won't have any effect, unfortunately.
Although these NPCs will be using some improved tactics compared to other NPCs they still rely on the same back-end. However simultaneous work is being performed on improving our NPC and content creation tools, and these missions will serve as excellent testing grounds for future NPC advancements.
I definitely understand the desire of many people to be able to run these missions at will, but unfortunately these missions will simply be too good to make them available all the time. I really like the idea of doing something with long cooldowns like the epic arcs in a future iteration, thanks for that feedback. Another option would be to make them available in a manner similar to storylines. Whenever you finish a L4 mission, you will, at random, you get a referral to another agent. That other agent gives you the burner mission. Now you have time to get your friends together, and take the mission. If they are not on-line, you can continue doing normal L4 missions with your current agent until you can get your fleet together. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Ancalanna Hareka
EVE University Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:25:00 -
[103] - Quote
Oh, lovely. So I'll have to grind a bunch of boring missions to get access to an interesting frigate mission? Well, my anticipation of this interesting new content just went down the drain. :(
Why can't you just make them give roughly the same ISK/hour rewards as regular L4 missions and make them directly requestable from standard L4 agents? Then the battleship L4 grinders can take their battleship missions and I can play around with my Tristan or Wolf vs a single or couple advanced rats? |
Chas Deferens
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:28:00 -
[104] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Dev Blog wrote:The fact that these missions can only be received as part of the random level 4 security mission pool should prevent them from being too farmable. and you've just made them, useless, and ****** content. if i'm doing level 4 missions, it ain't in a goddamn frigate. it's in a ship that can't do them, it'll get instantly declined and disregarded.
Pfft I know, right? Who owns more than one spaceship? Geez CCP stop failing. |
Matthias Azaharel
Aideron Robotics
35
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:40:00 -
[105] - Quote
I really like this new direction for PvE content. Two things concern me:
1. As everyone and their grandmother's cat has already said, I would prefer this to be a separate agent system as opposed to having to grind the grindy level 4 content to get to the interesting stuff.
2. Only 5 missions to potentially pull (will this be limited further depending on the race of the agent, as normal missions are?) feels a bit limited and feels like the newness and mystery of these missions will wear off really quickly, especially if each enemy uses only a specific build. Once you have a fit that counters that, it seems like you never need to change your build again. Given it's only frigates, it would be reasonable to have a handful of frigates each fit for each specific encounter.
On the other hand, I understand this is supposed to be a sort of proof of concept and more content along this line can be added later. But that's also the line we got about incursions so... I guess time will tell. |
JP Nakamura
Union of Intergalactic Miners and Nano Assemblers
35
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:48:00 -
[106] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Only five different opponents? I like the concept, but the whole fact of having these missions inside the regular level 4 pool makes it soooo uninteresting.
I don't want to grind stupid missions just to have a fun one from time to time.
Creating new content and integrating it to 11-years-old, broken and boring content, is very, VERY dissapointing. We would be better off without burner missions an with a brand new PvE system that actually rewards teamplay.
I think this is the Mission Equivalent of the Ship Painting Test.
CCP are actively working on revamping mission running, and these look like a test they put together to:
- improve mission variety ... a little
- test new ideas that will become more important as the mission authoring tools come on-line
- see what changes need to be made as they are in the middle of iterating on the mission authoring tools (and related backend code)
The only difference is that since this is the direction CCP wants to head with missions, they aren't going to refer to it as a "test", and give the community an idea that it has a choice.
In reality though it really feels more like a taste of things to come. CCP: 10+ years of Harvesting players Tears -á(latest efforts being Source Limited Edition, and Alliance Logo Revised Policies) |
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
193
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:48:00 -
[107] - Quote
Matthias Azaharel wrote:I really like this new direction for PvE content. Two things concern me:
1. As everyone and their grandmother's cat has already said, I would prefer this to be a separate agent system as opposed to having to grind the grindy level 4 content to get to the interesting stuff.
I am pretty sure the main goal of this new mission line is to reach out to people who have locked themselves into leveling their raven. You won't reach these people if you don't put it right under their nose, breaking up the grind.
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Dracoth Simertet
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
69
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:49:00 -
[108] - Quote
Was really looking forward to this and the new missions do seem really cool, but having to run level 4 missions to get to this new content totally puts me off.
Lower the rewards as needed but add the option to request these missions.
o7 Drac |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
908
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:50:00 -
[109] - Quote
If you did a seperate agent for those, then you have to limit on how many times you can do them per day, say 1 mission per empire per day or something like that.
Next - add some secrecy to the ship fits FFS give them some surprise ewar or something exciting, maybe change gun lay outs so its not the same burn over and over again.
EX - make the serpentis one have drones guristas - make him have a variety of things like i dont know, a guristas bomber where he shoots torps at you etc
This is a good direction but you HAVE to keep the player guessing on how they are fitted and what they will do. |
Winter Archipelago
Fade.
271
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:51:00 -
[110] - Quote
Since these are supposed to be high-level pirates in these frigs, can they try to pod the player, as well? Ransoms are accepted in Isk, Ships, Mods, and Dolls. |
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Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
129
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Posted - 2014.08.14 18:56:00 -
[111] - Quote
in responce to the question at the bottom of the DEV BLOG:
more of these missions
true exploration missions: tell me to go find xxx in xxx kill/loot/investigate
WH missions: send me in to them
multiple mission selection
multiple path (objective) missions
add random faction spawns to missions (V low % chance of spawn)
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Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
90
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:00:00 -
[112] - Quote
Now if only you would combine these new frigate sized wormholes with these frigate sized bosses somehow... |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1340
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:09:00 -
[113] - Quote
Five missions means that if it was a specific agent that only gave these missions it would have a much higher rate of burnout.
If you want to run these but cannot be bothered to grind L4's to get it then make friends with someone who would otherwise toss the mission to the side because they cannot afford two ships. (looking at you, DS) They lead you to the site and then you run it. Dagan was made to give people a reason to get help. This is, possibly, another similar case.
PvE content, as so many of you complain, has been ignored for too long. So they do something, something new. Be happy. Try it and then campaign for more of the same if you like it.
(If only hisec and PvE had some guy who represented them) Me
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Dave Stark
6744
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:10:00 -
[114] - Quote
Chas Deferens wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Dev Blog wrote:The fact that these missions can only be received as part of the random level 4 security mission pool should prevent them from being too farmable. and you've just made them, useless, and ****** content. if i'm doing level 4 missions, it ain't in a goddamn frigate. it's in a ship that can't do them, it'll get instantly declined and disregarded. Pfft I know, right? Who owns more than one spaceship? Geez CCP stop failing.
moving ships isn't the issue. if i'm doing level 4 missions, i ain't doing it in a frigate and they're just going to be skipped.
i'd have loved to do these missions, but i have to go out of my way to access them. or, i'm going to ignore them because they're getting in my way when i'm doing level 4s. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
637
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:17:00 -
[115] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Five missions means that if it was a specific agent that only gave these missions it would have a much higher rate of burnout.
If you want to run these but cannot be bothered to grind L4's to get it then make friends with someone who would otherwise toss the mission to the side because they cannot afford two ships. (looking at you, DS) They lead you to the site and then you run it. Dagan was made to give people a reason to get help. This is, possibly, another similar case.
PvE content, as so many of you complain, has been ignored for too long. So they do something, something new. Be happy. Try it and then campaign for more of the same if you like it.
(If only hisec and PvE had some guy who represented them) Me
m
I'm all for this change, it's something I've argued for in the many PvE threads and this is just the start. It also sounds very much like the backend that generates the missions is getting a revamp to which can only be a good thing.
For those missioners who don't want to run these as they don't like frigs...just skip them or hand them to someone else. Those who don't want to run the missions other than these? Just skip those missions and come back 4 hours later. Look on these missions as optional frantic interludes for those who generally PvE and want something different.
These could also be handy for taking newer pilots into for PvP style encounters. Just replace their frig if they lose it and they will thank you for it. This might also help player retention. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1490
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:19:00 -
[116] - Quote
the idea is interesting
putting them into the normal lvl 4 pool is stupid, i'm really interested in trying them, but i'm not gonna start farming lvl 4s just to get one.
the amount of intel you provide seems to be too high.
Build your empire ! Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis Contact me for details :)
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Dave Stark
6744
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:19:00 -
[117] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Five missions means that if it was a specific agent that only gave these missions it would have a much higher rate of burnout.
If you want to run these but cannot be bothered to grind L4's to get it then make friends with someone who would otherwise toss the mission to the side because they cannot afford two ships. (looking at you, DS) They lead you to the site and then you run it. Dagan was made to give people a reason to get help. This is, possibly, another similar case.
PvE content, as so many of you complain, has been ignored for too long. So they do something, something new. Be happy. Try it and then campaign for more of the same if you like it.
(If only hisec and PvE had some guy who represented them) Me
m
it's not about "not being bothered" or "not affording" anything.
the demographic for l4 missions is a battleship. the demographic for these is a frigate. the two are chalk and cheese. that's why it's a dumb implementation of the idea. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
184
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:22:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ancalanna Hareka wrote:Oh, lovely. So I'll have to grind a bunch of boring missions to get access to an interesting frigate mission? Well, my anticipation of this interesting new content just went down the drain. :(
Why can't you just make them give roughly the same ISK/hour rewards as regular L4 missions and make them directly requestable from standard L4 agents? Then the battleship L4 grinders can take their battleship missions and I can play around with my Tristan or Wolf vs a single or couple advanced rats? Go on SiSi and grind the burners until you've had your fill. |
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
90
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:26:00 -
[119] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Five missions means that if it was a specific agent that only gave these missions it would have a much higher rate of burnout.
If you want to run these but cannot be bothered to grind L4's to get it then make friends with someone who would otherwise toss the mission to the side because they cannot afford two ships. (looking at you, DS) They lead you to the site and then you run it. Dagan was made to give people a reason to get help. This is, possibly, another similar case.
PvE content, as so many of you complain, has been ignored for too long. So they do something, something new. Be happy. Try it and then campaign for more of the same if you like it.
(If only hisec and PvE had some guy who represented them) Me
m it's not about "not being bothered" or "not affording" anything. the demographic for l4 missions is a battleship. the demographic for these is a frigate. the two are chalk and cheese. that's why it's a dumb implementation of the idea.
The hipsters are invading your neighborhood. Watch out!
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1342
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:27:00 -
[120] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: it's not about "not being bothered" or "not affording" anything.
the demographic for l4 missions is a battleship. the demographic for these is a frigate. the two are chalk and cheese. that's why it's a dumb implementation of the idea.
I don't know if you run missions, Dave, but when I do I slowly build a stable of ships in that hub so I can run the specifics (Like a cruiser well tanked for the Recon 3/3 L4 mission) and I also keep a fast ship to commute to other things/places. Adding a good frigate or two to that stable will be just fine with me. Is it an extra expense? Yes, but one I am willing to pay for some variety
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
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