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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Dave Stark
6744
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:36:00 -
[121] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Dave Stark wrote: it's not about "not being bothered" or "not affording" anything.
the demographic for l4 missions is a battleship. the demographic for these is a frigate. the two are chalk and cheese. that's why it's a dumb implementation of the idea.
I don't know if you run missions, Dave, but when I do I slowly build a stable of ships in that hub so I can run the specifics (Like a cruiser well tanked for the Recon 3/3 L4 mission) and I also keep a fast ship to commute to other things/places. Adding a good frigate or two to that stable will be just fine with me. Is it an extra expense? Yes, but one I am willing to pay for some variety m
i do occasionally run them, in 1 ship because they're so trivial.
and that ship sure as hell isn't a frigate.
that way i don't have load of ships stuck in the arse end of nowhere.
the point is, that you're aiming a mission designed for 1 demographic at a demographic who won't do it. it's not a case of what you'd personally do, nobody cares what you'd personally do.
ccp are trying to sell steaks to vegans here, essentially.
as a stand alone set of missions from separate agents these will be fun to run, randomly getting them while you're doing things that simply don't fit what these missions are aimed at... it's just nonsensical.
although, i guess ccp already know most people will skip them because of the bad implementation, and that's why there's no standing penalty for skipping over them. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2093
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:40:00 -
[122] - Quote
Good stuff, all around. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1182
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:42:00 -
[123] - Quote
any possibility of getting similar ones for pirate factions? hunting down known bounty hunters, or taking out police commanders? |
Dersen Lowery
The Scope Gallente Federation
1193
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:45:00 -
[124] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:although, i guess ccp already know most people will skip them because of the bad implementation, and that's why there's no standing penalty for skipping over them.
Nothing about this arrangement strikes me as permanent. It's more like, "here, we're trying these out. if you like them, run them and tell us what you think."
From a development POV, there's no reason to build out a whole new interface to accommodate 5 new missions that still run on the old AI, while they're building out a whole new system underneath it, so they didn't do that. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Dave Stark
6744
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:49:00 -
[125] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Dave Stark wrote:although, i guess ccp already know most people will skip them because of the bad implementation, and that's why there's no standing penalty for skipping over them. Nothing about this arrangement strikes me as permanent. It's more like, "here, we're trying these out. if you like them, run them and tell us what you think." From a development POV, there's no reason to build out a whole new interface to accommodate 5 new missions that still run on the old AI, while they're building out a whole new system underneath it, so they didn't do that.
sure there's a reason; the reason is so you don't waste content putting it where players won't access it.
of the few people i've spoken to since i got home from work who were interested in these missions, they've pretty much all lost interest when i told them you have to mindlessly grind l4s until the rng gods let you have a go at one of these new ones. |
Erin Crawford
204
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:50:00 -
[126] - Quote
Quote:We look forward to hearing your feedback on these mission in the feedback thread. What are you looking forward to most about these Burner Missions? What do you think could be improved about the concept? What kinds of new mission types would you like to see us add next?
IGÇÖm looking forward to these new missions! CanGÇÖt wait!
As for new mission types..?
What if npc GÇÿreactedGÇÖ or scaled in difficulty based on how easy one kills npc: ie. you warp into the first room and kill the first set of npc, depending on how fast and how easy this was done, the following room would adjust in difficulty either by adding more npc or different npc ships classes or both. And if you bring help, like a friend or two, the mission npc call in even more support to aid them - again based on the group performance.
Essentially this would mean a scalable difficulty with parameters taken on ease of npc kills, maybe even player ship-class(like frog, carrier, bs, t1 or t2GǪ) or even player SP and average player group SP - these could all affect mission difficulty settings.
This would actually then do away with the mission level system, l1, l2, l3, etcGǪ since the difficulty and challenge would be based on a whole string of player/character info. If i have a character with 9mill sp and i take a t1 frig into the mission it have x-diffuclty., but if i go to the same mission in a t2 frig itGÇÖl x-times harder. There could be and very long list of variables that could affect the mission difficulty and so make them interesting and less procedural.
just my 2cGǪ |
Aquinas II
PostgreSQL
2
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:51:00 -
[127] - Quote
Kraizer793 wrote:As awesome as the idea is, I really don't think they'll be used.
The people who will be attracted to this type of mission are, in my experience, the type who won't want to bother grinding out traditional L4's in all their mind-numbing tedium.
The people who like L4's or run them for ISK's sake will likely just skip them. due to the risk and skill involved, just skipping it and going back to blitzing Dread Pirate Scarlet for the seventh time that day is much easier... Some players will do these because they like the challenge of a good PvP fight, but don't want to deal with the BS that comes along with PvP. You can have a guaranteed challenging fight, don't have to worry that your target is baiting you for the rest of his gang with Logi support. You don't have to spend hours gate camping. You can log in run this mission and log out. You obviously aren't guaranteed to get it everytime, but its practical for people with limited playtime and busy lives. In theory, this will teach care bears better skills so they can be more confident about moving into PvP.
I'm looking forward to the day when Ewar works the same against NPCs as it does with players. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
637
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:51:00 -
[128] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Dave Stark wrote: it's not about "not being bothered" or "not affording" anything.
the demographic for l4 missions is a battleship. the demographic for these is a frigate. the two are chalk and cheese. that's why it's a dumb implementation of the idea.
I don't know if you run missions, Dave, but when I do I slowly build a stable of ships in that hub so I can run the specifics (Like a cruiser well tanked for the Recon 3/3 L4 mission) and I also keep a fast ship to commute to other things/places. Adding a good frigate or two to that stable will be just fine with me. Is it an extra expense? Yes, but one I am willing to pay for some variety m i do occasionally run them, in 1 ship because they're so trivial. and that ship sure as hell isn't a frigate. that way i don't have load of ships stuck in the arse end of nowhere. the point is, that you're aiming a mission designed for 1 demographic at a demographic who won't do it. it's not a case of what you'd personally do, nobody cares what you'd personally do. ccp are trying to sell steaks to vegans here, essentially. as a stand alone set of missions from separate agents these will be fun to run, randomly getting them while you're doing things that simply don't fit what these missions are aimed at... it's just nonsensical. although, i guess ccp already know most people will skip them because of the bad implementation, and that's why there's no standing penalty for skipping over them.
These will suit me fine actually, I have standings for level IV missions but don't fly BS because I just don't like them. I'll be skipping the standard missions waiting for the burners. |
Dave Stark
6744
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Posted - 2014.08.14 19:54:00 -
[129] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:These will suit me fine actually, I have standings for level IV missions but don't fly BS because I just don't like them. I'll be skipping the standard missions waiting for the burners.
then you won't have the standings for IV missions for very long.
then again if ccp were to just implement them separately, that wouldn't be an issue. |
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
90
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:01:00 -
[130] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:These will suit me fine actually, I have standings for level IV missions but don't fly BS because I just don't like them. I'll be skipping the standard missions waiting for the burners. then you won't have the standings for IV missions for very long. (or potentially wait days between missions if you wait for the 4hr timer to expire) then again if ccp were to just implement them separately, that wouldn't be an issue.
It's already been clearly stated that you can request a mission every 4 hours without a standings hit *per agent*
Depending on your standings, you could have access to a number of agents that you can hit up for missions round robin while waiting out your 4 hour timer on the others. This could easily be done by low/null-sec players as they roam looking for fights in their frigates.
Not everyone grinds 24x7 in the same basic circle with the same agent doing the same content as it is fed to them... |
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Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
131
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:04:00 -
[131] - Quote
just an added thaught:
add these as cosmic anoms.
low spawn in high
high spawn in low
norm spawn in null
high spawn in WH |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
58
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:07:00 -
[132] - Quote
been putting a list together of all the lv 4 agents I have access to within a couple jumps. Cant wait to try they out.
The whole request mission decline if bad and request another if bad wait 4 hours rinse and repeat is what I do for lv5's, Now with more agents available at lv 4's I hope I can cycle them a little more. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
637
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:08:00 -
[133] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:These will suit me fine actually, I have standings for level IV missions but don't fly BS because I just don't like them. I'll be skipping the standard missions waiting for the burners. then you won't have the standings for IV missions for very long. (or potentially wait days between missions if you wait for the 4hr timer to expire) then again if ccp were to just implement them separately, that wouldn't be an issue.
I can wait since I do all sorts of other things. These will add another area of the game for me and are a good sign of things to come I think.
|
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
16481
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:18:00 -
[134] - Quote
I like this idea. I like it soooo much I might actually run missions again.
I also cant wait for all the "ARGH RABBLE BLARG WHAY CANT I USE MY AFK MISSION ISHTAR IN THESE MISSIONS!!!! CCP NEEDS TO LET CRUISERS INTO FRIG BATTLE!!! ARGH RABBLE BLARG!!!!!" threads because highsec. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1344
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:18:00 -
[135] - Quote
Erin Crawford wrote:*edit: damn spellcheck telling me I'm fly frogs when I'm flying frigs! Pfff!
Maybe they are Gallente ships, green and of french origin
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
voetius
BITB Support Services
252
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:19:00 -
[136] - Quote
Nam Dnilb wrote:Matthias Azaharel wrote:I really like this new direction for PvE content. Two things concern me:
1. As everyone and their grandmother's cat has already said, I would prefer this to be a separate agent system as opposed to having to grind the grindy level 4 content to get to the interesting stuff. I am pretty sure the main goal of this new mission line is to reach out to people who have locked themselves into leveling their raven. You won't reach these people if you don't put it right under their nose, breaking up the grind.
Exactly, I think a lot of the critical comments so far are because it isn't clear who these missions are aimed at. If it is the hard core L4 mission runners who are thinking that they don't know how to do PvP, this is a nice easy way to get them involved with some setpiece scenarios. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
264
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:21:00 -
[137] - Quote
I assume they will require pointing? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
757
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:22:00 -
[138] - Quote
you mean teal and grey |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
58
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:29:00 -
[139] - Quote
voetius wrote:Nam Dnilb wrote:Matthias Azaharel wrote:I really like this new direction for PvE content. Two things concern me:
1. As everyone and their grandmother's cat has already said, I would prefer this to be a separate agent system as opposed to having to grind the grindy level 4 content to get to the interesting stuff. I am pretty sure the main goal of this new mission line is to reach out to people who have locked themselves into leveling their raven. You won't reach these people if you don't put it right under their nose, breaking up the grind. Exactly, I think a lot of the critical comments so far are because it isn't clear who these missions are aimed at. If it is the hard core L4 mission runners who are thinking that they don't know how to do PvP, this is a nice easy way to get them involved with some setpiece scenarios.
Do these frigs need to be pointed? cause if not the fits I'm looking at are really specific for just the one role of smashing this other frig. Fits I wouldn't ever try to pvp in. To make it more like pvp the mission boss would have to change fits and we would not be given what ship it is at the start of the mission. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
846
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Posted - 2014.08.14 20:33:00 -
[140] - Quote
Wait wait wait, so you want us, the capsuleers who are inexplicably bound by CONCORD's law and get an ass kicking the moment we over step, to fight and kill a bunch of terrorists who have managed to elude CONCORD and are using better equipment then even we have access to?
In any realistic scenario anyone would take two seconds to think that over and say HELL NO. But in this case, I think it's just another piece of bad story writing. All is good. (Really, put some more effort into decent background stories for game mechanics).
As far as the gameplay itself goes, I'm sure we all like the addition of new missions, but this is once again more static content that is able to be mapped and countered to perfection each and every time. Hell, the dev blog already gives a neat little list of exactly what each mission's dangers are. It will take 1 week tops before someone has all the details of each Burner written down and mapped out.
The reason missions in general are boring is not because there aren't enough different ones, but because it's the same stuff each and ever single time. The rats are always the same. The method of attack is always the same. The incoming damage is always the same. All you have to do to beat a mission is do the exact same thing you did last time.
If you want to improve missions and PVE content in general, start working on dynamic missions that change ever so slightly each time they are ran. Dynamic rats, dynamic triggers, dynamic damage and dynamic stats. That way at least there's still some challenge instead of being able to find every single piece of information on a website.
Of course a system like that takes time to program and stuff, I get that. But this basically goes for everything in EVE; make it less static. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
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Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:37:00 -
[141] - Quote
Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out.
Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk.
If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
758
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:41:00 -
[142] - Quote
I think dynamic here just means random, but yes. |
voetius
BITB Support Services
252
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:47:00 -
[143] - Quote
Dalilus wrote:Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out. Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk. If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that.
If you are having trouble running missions in your 4 billion isk frigate just drop me a note to say where you are doing them as I'm sure I can pop along and help out. |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1293
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 20:48:00 -
[144] - Quote
Do you need to point them? I hope so. Love the concept anyway.
What about having specialist agents in lowsec that only give these missions? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
58
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:02:00 -
[145] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Wait wait wait, so you want us, the capsuleers who are inexplicably bound by CONCORD's law and get an ass kicking the moment we over step, to fight and kill a bunch of terrorists who have managed to elude CONCORD and are using better equipment then even we have access to?
In any realistic scenario anyone would take two seconds to think that over and say HELL NO. But in this case, I think it's just another piece of bad story writing. All is good. (Really, put some more effort into decent background stories for game mechanics).
As far as the gameplay itself goes, I'm sure we all like the addition of new missions, but this is once again more static content that is able to be mapped and countered to perfection each and every time. Hell, the dev blog already gives a neat little list of exactly what each mission's dangers are. It will take 1 week tops before someone has all the details of each Burner written down and mapped out.
The reason missions in general are boring is not because there aren't enough different ones, but because it's the same stuff each and ever single time. The rats are always the same. The method of attack is always the same. The incoming damage is always the same. All you have to do to beat a mission is do the exact same thing you did last time.
If you want to improve missions and PVE content in general, start working on dynamic missions that change ever so slightly each time they are ran. Dynamic rats, dynamic triggers, dynamic damage and dynamic stats. That way at least there's still some challenge instead of being able to find every single piece of information on a website.
Of course a system like that takes time to program and stuff, I get that. But this basically goes for everything in EVE; make it less static.
Wont ever happen. All the dynamic options will be maped also and people will just go in fit and expecting the hardest variation. Thus turning the dynamic content into static content. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1912
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:03:00 -
[146] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: also, sig tanking is actually speed tanking. or speed tanking is sig tanking. you cannot separate these things.
They're different when you shoot missiles at them.
Ziggy star dust knows all about "speed" tanking
Rocket man:
She packed my bags last night pre-flight Zero hour nine a.m. And I'm gonna be high as a kite by then I miss the earth so much I miss my wife It's lonely out in space On such a timeless flight
And I think it's gonna be a long long time Till touch down brings me round again to find I'm not the man they think I am at home Oh no no no I'm a rocket man Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone
Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids In fact it's cold as hell And there's no one there to raise them if you did And all this science I don't understand It's just my job five days a week A rocket man, a rocket man
And I think it's gonna be a long long time...
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
58
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:05:00 -
[147] - Quote
Dalilus wrote:Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out. Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk. If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that.
you need to learn to read. rewards are stated in the dev bog. |
Xer Jin
Ancient Anomaly and Artifacts Recovery Explorators
95
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:11:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Just to explain a little on how these will be testable. The current solution we are working towards is temporarily disabling all other level 4 missions on Sisi, so that these are the only ones available. For those of you who aren't standings-positive enough to get level 4 missions (and for everyone else!) we will be reworking the moveme bot to provide faction standings. This might even stick around if there's enough interest in it, but the missions will be restored following the Hyperion release.
how about just making an agent that hands out burner missions in one system a temporary agent of sorts on sisi that gives the different races missions one after the other that way you can collect stats easily from one system / node and people can chat about them in local i fell this would be easier to implement and convenient for us capsulers.
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adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
10
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:15:00 -
[149] - Quote
I wish these were not bound to lvl 4 agents or were options you could choose instead (using tag drops from normal lvl 4's perhaps? Which would make it bound to the economy) from said lvl 4 agents, say perhaps even exclusive to low-sec, they ARE avoiding concord after-all! ----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV |
Dersen Lowery
The Scope Gallente Federation
1193
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 21:17:00 -
[150] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:sure there's a reason; the reason is so you don't waste content putting it where players won't access it.
of the few people i've spoken to since i got home from work who were interested in these missions, they've pretty much all lost interest when i told them you have to mindlessly grind l4s until the rng gods let you have a go at one of these new ones.
If nobody flies them, then sure, they can do something to make them more attractive. But if I were them, on a six-week release beat, I'd roll them out with the least possible amount of effort and watch, then adjust as necessary. Maybe you don't want to run those particular L4s; maybe I'd rather spin my Ishtar than run L4s at all. It's a fair bet that somebody out there who's willing to give them a shot. There's been demand for this kind of variety in L4 missions, and this is a pretty good way to figure out how much demand there is among the existing mission-running player base. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
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