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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2014.08.24 15:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:SNIP What exactly do you intend to do when the supply of geckos dwindle and their price start skyrocketing because of it? Ask CCP for more changes?
Well, it seems very likely that they will introduct a BP for the Gecko since it is the only saving grace of the Rattlesnake nerfs. Also, thats no excuse to fix something that is broken and poor game design. I really wish everything with the RS drone system would have remained the same, its so very easy to lose a Gecko to webbing and warp disrupting NPCs. I would much rather be losing medium and light drones, of which I formerly had the drone bay to replace, rather than these expensive Geckos that are apparently intended to make up for gutting so much versatility from the Rattlesnake.
CCP Rise rebalanced so many ships at once, its no surprise he screwed up a few. For Justice. |
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
21
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Posted - 2014.08.24 16:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:Common sense tell us that it seems very likely that they will introduce a BP for the Gecko eventually since it is the only saving grace of the Rattlesnake nerfs. 1): Then we must be getting to get BPOs for the reduced-CPU faction armor hardeners, because it's the only way to get certain fits for certain cruisers working! Have to, because those faction hardeners were apparently made specifically so those fits work exactly how I want them to!
2): The Rattlesnake change was a massive buff!
True, you don't do as much damage with lights and mediums, but you do about as much damage with them as any other battleship besides the Dominix and Armageddon. Your sentries and heavies massively out-DPS the Dominix and Armageddon, especially because your Rattlesnake is shield-tanked and you aren't sacrificing any tank by throwing Drone Damage Amps on it. The reduction in drone bay is because you don't need to store 125m3 for each kind of heavy or sentry drone you want, only 50m3 now.
Torpedo range was reduced (not even going to mention cruise missile range getting reduced, because you can hit out to your lock range after the change anyway), but that needed to happen because of the damage buff. Imagine BUFFED torpedoes hitting at cruise ranges. As it stands now, your cruise missiles on the Rattlesnake hit like torpedoes are cruise ranges with cruise damage application.
If you don't like the way your fit works on the new Rattlesnake, change your fit. Torpedoes on a Rattler makes it a dedicated battleship killer that has a hard time applying damage to cruisers and frigates, but it's 1600 DPS of battleship-killing.
Quote:Also, being limited in supply is no excuse to not to fix something that is broken. I'm not even convinced it's broken. You want this change so you have to put even less effort into mission running. Hi, welcome, you must be new to Eve.
Quote:CCP Rise tried to rebalance so many ships at once, its no surprise he screwed up a few. I don't think he screwed this one up at all. Before, it was a shield-tanked Dominix. Now it's actually a unique ship that has very interesting differences.
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NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2014.08.24 16:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote: CCP Rise tried to rebalance so many ships at once, its no surprise he screwed up a few.
I don't think he screwed this one up at all. Before, it was a shield-tanked Dominix. Now it's actually a unique ship that has very interesting differences.
This is off topic so its the last time I will address it.
The Rattlesnake is an upgrade and a ship to aspire to after one has trained to the Dominix, it should be expected that their abilities are similar.
There is more than one optimal way to play a ship than from a DPS-centric viewpoint. The Rattlesnake changes should have taken that into consideration. More was taken away than was given on a ship that was already the least popular of the pirate faction battleships. |
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
22
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Posted - 2014.08.24 16:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:The Rattlesnake is an upgrade [...] to the Dominix Nope! Very different ships, very different roles. The only "upgrades" are certain T1 ships vs certain T2 ships, like the Omen compared to the Zealot (and even then considering it a direct upgrade is somewhat iffy). |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
82
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Posted - 2014.08.24 16:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
Least popular.... And yet, in incursions, something so far outside their effective role, they popped up constantly. And yet, they're used hard in some areas of null PVE, before and after the change. And yet, they get used as PVP ships in greater numbers than nightmares.
yeah. Right.
As far as "high SP" "expensive" etc.
Go look up the sunk cost fallacy. You are chasing a sunk cost, those SP and that isk is invested. Etiher change your investment strategy in the future and dump your assets that you dislike or soldier on. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Athraws
Rising Thunder
3
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Posted - 2014.08.24 17:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:So this thread has run for a while and it seems that none can seem to offer a valid reason why we should not have a change to the drone AI with regards to the Gecko.
When proposing a change like this, the impetus is on YOU to prove the change is necessary; not on us to prove it is not.
The Gecko was not provided to you as a replacement for any perceived nerf to the Rattlesnake. As has been said before, it was just CCP's gift to players for EvE's anniversary, and you're reading too much into it.
As for the fact that its tracking is comparable to a Hammerhead's, so is the Berserker's, as it always has been. That doesn't mean they're intended to target and counter smaller vessels. They are still more effective against BS sized targets, given that both the Gecko and Berserker have BS-sized Signature Resolutions.
Its true the Rattlesnake's ability to wield medium and small drones is weaker than before. It also lost the range bonus that made torps viable.
However, it gained a significant 2-type damage bonus that enhances its damage abilities with cruise missiles to near its old unbonused torp damage, not to mention the option of Rapid-Heavies. It also got another launcher, which FURTHER improved its missile damage capabilities.
As things stand, its quite simple to use the Rapid Heavies or Cruises to pick off cruiser and frigate targets while allowing the Heavy Drones to tear through BS sized targets.
As to having to spend more time locking targets: lol. Fit a sensor booster.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
286
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Posted - 2014.08.24 18:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:its so very easy to lose a Gecko to webbing and warp disrupting NPCs.
I've never had a gecko in structure, much less come close to losing them. And that is on unbonused hulls.
You're doing something fundamentally wrong if you're losing geckos in general, this is even more impressive if you're losing them on a rattlesnake.
You've still failed to articulate the problem here - note you needing to direct a drone is NOT a problem.
Elite frigates are a speedbump/triviality designed to keep people out of high level missions who shouldn't be there. If you're scared if them then....well....maybe you shouldn't be in there in the first place. To be scared of them in a ship with a buffer of 250,000 EHP and 1500+ DPS....is just ridiculous. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
260
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Posted - 2014.08.24 18:08:00 -
[38] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:So this thread has run for a while and it seems that none can seem to offer a valid reason why we should not have a change to the drone AI with regards to the Gecko.
This change seems to be purely beneficial and should not be a difficult fix.
Personally, this is a change that I need to continue enjoying the game. I had my primary playstyle ruined on a highly SP intensive pirate faction battleship, the Rattlesnake, the only combat ship I have been training for, dreaming about and perfecting since I started this game over 4 years ago. This change would go a long way towards improving opinion(at least mine) of the game and the devs when it comes to making the needed changes even when they don't effect a great number of people.
As a Torpedo using Rattlesnake pilot that used primarily light and medium drones, it is extremely disappointing to me that the Rattlesnake was changed to such a large degree into a ship I that I do not enjoy nearly as much. I'd like to mention that I also trained in sentries and heavy drones for the Rattlesnake, and have several different Rattlesnakes with several different fits that all use multiple deadspace and faction modules, and I don't just run easy level 4 missions without looting or salvaging, like some people seem to assume can be the only way to play a Battleship in EVE.
My playstyle was simple and effective, especially under the effects of e-war: Lock on the battleships first, which are faster to lock, and apply Torpedoes while using the optimal type of light or medium drones with the optimal damage type to clean up the frigates or cruisers respectively. As soon as lights and mediums finish their job destroying the smaller ships(something they do automatically without the excessive locking delays and re-targetting neccesary of each individual frigate and cruiser as is required of the Gecko in the same role), salvage drones can be salvaging. Wrecks are in close clusters instead of being spread out like they are when sniping, allowing your MTU to gather your loot much more quickly. Warden IIs are used with this as well when preferred to salvage drones.
Unfortunately, the Rattlesnake has lost its bonuses that made this playstyle as effective as it was. Its bad enough for people like me, with the loss of missile velocity bonus that makes makes torpedoes non-viable in a majority of scenarios, a specialized missile damage damage type, and -225m3 reduction in drone bay that destroys the creative possibilities of utility drones, and loss of ability to use the optimum light and medium drone types. What ultimately makes it all too much is the annoying hassle of having to babysit your gecko onto every single frigate or cruiser you want to destroy if there are Battleships present, as Battleships will be prioritized by the AI script used with Gecko.
Under the effect of jamming or dampening, this problem is amplified as other drone boats have bonused light and medium drones which will continue to deal high-end damage upon frigate and cruisers without popping Battleship triggers like a Gecko will, or leaving you web scrambled and webbed as it uselessly wastes time attacking a random battleship, ultimately compromising the great benefit of using drones to combat e-war.
There is now a heavy micromanagement burden required in using a Gecko to combat ships smaller than a battleship that is compounded by the ship being limited 7 locked targets max. Since the Gecko appears to be compensation for the loss of bonuses on light and medium drones and a -225m3 reduction in drone bay space, it would greatly benefit the game if they could be made to prioritize the target type they are tasked upon, frigates or cruisers, instead of prioritizing battleships, something that traditional heavy drones do much better at dealing with.
1. New Rattlesnake does more DPS with cruise than the old one did with torps. 2. Your sense of entitlement makes Kanye West look humble. |
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
22
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Posted - 2014.08.24 18:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:1. New Rattlesnake does more DPS with cruise than the old one did with torps. With better range and damage application against cruisers, I have to point out! |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
714
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Posted - 2014.08.24 22:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
OP (sorry, I just can't keep up with all your alt names anymore, stop getting them banned or whatever),
You really don't want to use Geckos the way you are seemingly wanting to use them now in any case. NPC AI will attack drones their size and larger. This means when you put out a Gecko into a full room, everything is going to come after it, from the frigates on up. This is why you are losing them this way.
Reverse your strategy. Put out sentries to engage the battleships more effectively than the old torps would have, at longer ranges even with the old hull bonus. The sentries will be more resilient to taking incoming fire, and force the smaller ships that want to engage them to come to you.
Then mount RHML, or RLML, depending on how worried you are about frigates. Engage them with the launchers--- you don't have to fire them all in a group, you can leave them separate to target up to 5 targets, but I usually split them into two groups to avoid corpse cooking while still getting good damage. If you are Using RHML then Fury Heavies will do good damage to battleships when they are all dead, or with lights you were very effective against even Elite Frigates with minimal missile support.
Your playstyle remains almost completely unchanged except for which weapon is doing what and the fact you are doing lots more damage than you were before. Sentries will take out battleships with minimal input from you while you concentrate on eliminating their smaller support vessels with the same effort you used to expend on battleships.
You just really, really, REALLY don't have a complaint here. Your claim that the RS is more like Caldari is true *now* that the missile system is equal to the drone system, so using missiles this way should not bother you. If you want a better focus on the way drones work, go pick up a Navy Domi, which is almost identical to the playstyle you are complaining about having lost. With 4 rails and a couple DLA you can easily snipe from ranges that rats in missions won't even agro from, rendering all your lowslots free to amp damage. Navy Domi has sufficient mid slots to mount a sufficient shield tank, and you lose no functionality in the drone system. You can do the same with the standard Domi for even cheaper, but you lose a mid slot and the turret damage bonus, though the mid is made up for by the tracking/range drone bonus. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9086
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Posted - 2014.08.24 23:40:00 -
[41] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:OP (sorry, I just can't keep up with all your alt names anymore, stop getting them banned or whatever),
He couldn't even hide it for two pages that he is Fabulous Rod. He didn't even make it one page before he started crying about his incredibad playstyle isn't being supported by the Rattlesnake anymore. It's hilarious.
It's also fairly apparent that his character name and likeness is a shot at me.
I wonder if, between those things, I could petition for it?
Quote: You just really, really, REALLY don't have a complaint here.
He never did. That never stopped him before. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Xequecal wrote: 1. New Rattlesnake does more DPS with cruise than the old one did with torps.
Wrong. Only against targets with primary kinetic and thermic weaknesses, and only ones that do not use defender missiles.
The only people who have no issue with the Rattlesnake changes are people who don't seem to understand the game very well, EFT warriors and rabid forum socialites who no one takes seriously.
The fact remains that a common and optimal playstyle was destroyed on a pirate faction battleship, the Rattlesnake, a ship that takes much longer to fully train for than a marauder, and it remains that these changes are necessary to restore some of that functionality. The proposed changes have no visible detriment whatsoever and there is no reason why they can't or should not be implemented. This is the least that should be done to make up for CCP Rise shittng up the Rattlesnake so badly with the specialized, DPS-centric changes that gutted the versatility that many people trained to fly the ship for in the first place.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
287
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
What will you do when the geckos run out?
Supplies are already dwindling. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7764
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
A whole thread devoted to the idea that one should not actually have to control ones drones lol.
This is what happens when you get spolied. The OP got used to 'launch drones, let drones do work) and can't adapt to a situation where effort or creativity is actually involved.
Since the Gecko automatically goes after battleships, i let it, I fit RHMLs and I manually shoot +TP the small stuff and when those are dead I lock and kill whatever the gecko is killing. My Rattlesnake mission times improved as a result.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
287
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Since the Gecko automatically goes after battleships, i let it, I fit RHMLs and I manually shoot +TP the small stuff and when those are dead I lock and kill whatever the gecko is killing. My Rattlesnake mission times improved as a result.
I dont even bother with RLML, the drone is so absurdly hardy I just let it batter whatever it feels like. If it finishes the elite frigates last, I dont care. It's not like a properly skilled or fit rattlesnake is ever going to die in a mission, is it?
I have precisions cruises in the event of any drama. Not fired any yet. Funny that |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7764
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:Xequecal wrote: 1. New Rattlesnake does more DPS with cruise than the old one did with torps.
Wrong. Only against targets with primary kinetic and thermic weaknesses, and only ones that do not use defender missiles. The only people who have can't seem to find issue with the Rattlesnake changes are people who don't seem to understand the game very well, EFT warriors and rabid forum socialites who no one takes seriously. The fact remains that a common and optimal playstyle was destroyed on a pirate faction battleship, the Rattlesnake, a ship that takes much longer to fully train for than a marauder, and it remains that these changes are necessary to restore some of that functionality. The proposed changes have no visible detriment whatsoever and there is no reason why they can't or should not be implemented. This is the least that should be done to make up for CCP Rise shittng up the Rattlesnake so badly with the specialized, DPS-centric changes that gutted the versatility that many people trained to fly the ship for in the first place. The pirate faction battleship thread was over a hundred pages long due to complaints over the Rattlesnake though I have yet to see one change made by CCP Rise due to player feedback over any his proposed balance changes in Kronos. Unacceptable.
I love to ask this question of people like this:
Do you think that insulting the people who would make the changes and being a snarky donkey's backside to fellow player (who's support you'd need to convince CCP of the need for a change) actually works?
I mean all you're doing is proving that only crazy people think the RS is a bad ship lol.
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NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:A whole thread devoted to the idea that one should not actually have to control ones drones lol.
Incorrect. I am merely asking for changes to replace lost functionality to the only combat ship I have been envisioning, training for, dreaming about, and enjoying(until recently) since I started this game 3 years ago.
Jenn aSide wrote:Since the Gecko automatically goes after battleships, i let it Hilarious.
Thanks for proving me correct. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7764
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:A whole thread devoted to the idea that one should not actually have to control ones drones lol. Incorrect. I am merely asking for changes to replace lost functionality.
There is no lost functionality. You can still deploy light drones. while the light drones aren't bonused, at the end of the day this is made up for by the missile bonus (kill frigs slower, kill bigger ships faster)
What you want is to have your cake (heavy drone dps) and eat it too (it goes after smaller ships 1st without any input from you). Asking for self serving 'functionality' automatically invalidates everything you post.
EVE is a game about figuring things out. I did (RHMLs pluse TPs + Gecko), you can too. But only if you are willing to adapt. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1213
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:Incorrect. I am merely asking for changes to replace lost functionality to the only combat ship I have been envisioning, training for, dreaming about, and enjoying(until recently) since I started this game 3 years ago.
3 years into it and you still use it wrong. That's the saddest part from now on... |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
716
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
Probably 3/4ths of that feedback thread was OPs complaints, and those answering him.
It's the same BS over and over. He seems to think that his way was optimal (it wasnt) and that it's ruined now (it isnt, and works better now than it did) and that no other ship could do the same (they can, especially if all you want to do is use unbonused weapons to support a standard drone bonus).
Dominix does it fine, N.Dominix does it about as good as the new (better in every way) rattlesnake. Eos and Ishtar do a respectable job. Nestor probably does too, if you can afford it.
Pirate ships do not take more training than Marauders. Pirate ships simply require what any Battleship does, plus another BS skill. Marauders takes the Marauders skill. It's about the same.
Ron is just a poor player, whiner, and has a poor grasp of tactics and game systems. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1999
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Posted - 2014.08.25 22:57:00 -
[51] - Quote
Considering the facts that the OP is posting attacks at CCP personnel and misusing the forum post report system to systematically reporting every single opposing post to us, this thread gets a lock.
The Rules: 30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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