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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Prince Kobol
2052
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Posted - 2014.08.18 12:01:00 -
[151] - Quote
Just to raise one other point, if it transpires that Somer has lied about this scheme being authorised by CCP then I would expect CCP to perma ban all his accounts and to confiscate all isk and any items on those accounts.
Anything else would be disgraceful. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23929
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:02:00 -
[152] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:No, it is still your interpretation on how it works. So you're saying that Somer isn't describing their own procedures accurately?
Quote:We can only guess what CCP's interpretation is on any given subject until they rule one way or another. In this instance it appears that they have ruled this not be RMT. GǪand any such ruling is absurd given Somer's description of the procedure.
Quote:No because nobody else has done what somer are doing. You mean hand out ISK in exchange for referral bucks? Yes there is: Somer did it. They had to stop because it was blatant RMT when you untangled the transactions, and all PLEX retailers were required to alter their terms to no longer allow for the kind of in-game/out-of-game mixing Somer was into.
Quote:until somebody does exactly what Somer is doing then you can not claim it is preferential treatment and that CCP have stopped anybody else doing what they are doing. Sure I can, especially given the history of Somer getting (massive) preferential treatment.
Quote:We go back to the point that CCP have apparently ruled this is not a form of RMT which makes your last statement invalid. GǪand that would, itself, be a case of massive preferential treatment if true, since they have supposedly ruled a very obvious exchange of real money for ISK as GÇ£not RMTGÇ¥ in this single case. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:02:00 -
[153] - Quote
Memrox wrote:Ban Somer, stop these affiliate links and everything will be fair and square. I'd like to see Somer banned on the grounds of causing mass distress to the Eve population for the second time. Almost terr.... like lol
This is just a stupid idea.
Affiliate links are a great way of getting people/companies to sell products.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:03:00 -
[154] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:No because nobody else has done what somer are doing. Nobody else has been told that this was acceptable to do. Even if it is and now everyone is allowed to do it, that alone indicates favoritism.
Prince Kobol wrote:We go back to the point that CCP have apparently ruled this is not a form of RMT which makes your last statement invalid. No, we're at the point where Somer says that CCP has ruled that this is not a form of RMT. If they're telling the truth then it's possible they got some rookie/careless/apathetic GM who gave them the green light, and this isn't actually a new direction in CCP's policy at all. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:07:00 -
[155] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:No, it is still your interpretation on how it works. So you're saying that Somer isn't describing their own procedures accurately? You have lost me here, sorry. Quote:We can only guess what CCP's interpretation is on any given subject until they rule one way or another. In this instance it appears that they have ruled this not be RMT. GǪand any such ruling is absurd given Somer's description of the procedure. You have the right to think that, I am not arguing that, what I am saying that it is your opinion which at the moment is the opposite of CCP's, and CCP's opinion is what matters as unfortunate as that might be. Quote:No because nobody else has done what somer are doing. You mean hand out ISK in exchange for referral bucks? Yes there is: Somer did it. They had to stop because it was blatant RMT when you untangled the transactions, and all PLEX retailers were required to alter their terms to no longer allow for the kind of in-game/out-of-game mixing Somer was into. Again apparently CCP feel that what they are doing this time is within what ever frame work they work to in regards to RMT. You might feel it isn't as is your right, but apparently CCP feel that it is. Quote:until somebody does exactly what Somer is doing then you can not claim it is preferential treatment and that CCP have stopped anybody else doing what they are doing. Sure I can, especially given the history of Somer getting (massive) preferential treatment.
Then give an example of somebody doing this and being stopped by CCP and I will whole heartily agree with you.
(god damn forum has messed up the quotes lol.. sorry) |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
849
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:07:00 -
[156] - Quote
Ah and still through Markee Dragon as well, the infamous RMT master of MMO land. Always finding cracks to exploit.
Guess the debate is back on again. I'll see you guys in one of the 20 topics that are undoubtedly going to sprout in the coming weeks. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2149
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:10:00 -
[157] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:...
Then give an example of somebody doing this and being stopped by CCP and I will whole heartily agree with you. Why would anyone do this? They would get banned. Somer, on the other hand, might get a slap on the wrist. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:12:00 -
[158] - Quote
Is it possible that Markee Dragon is the person behind Somerset Mahm? No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2014.08.18 12:13:00 -
[159] - Quote
It is blatant RMTing, as it was last time.
If CCP have authorised this scheme, as claimed by Somer, then CCP have opened the field for anyone and everyone to RMT as they are now saying it is ok. Questions must be asked of whoever in CCP authorised it- not a good start to Seagulls reign.
If CCP did not authorise the scheme or were duped by Somer then he should be banned and all accounts related to Somer should be deleted and banned.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23929
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:14:00 -
[160] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:You have lost me here, sorry. I'm saying that it's not an interpretation GÇö it's how the process is described by Somer. If I'm GÇ£interpretingGÇ¥ it wrong, it's because it is not being described correctly.
Quote:You have the right to think that, I am not arguing that, what I am saying that it is your opinion which at the moment is the opposite of CCP's, and CCP's opinion is what matters as unfortunate as that might be. GǪand thus we arrive at the preferential treatment: if CCP's opinion is any different in this case than in any other where people have offered in-game ISK in exchange for a series of transactions that net them real-life cash, then Somer is being held to a different standard than the official one.
Quote:Then give an example of somebody doing this and being stopped by CCP and I will whole heartily agree with you. The most obvious one is Somer themselves, a year ago.
All they've done is simplify the transactions and started dealing in actual in-game ISK rather than credits that have to be cashed out through the lottery. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
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Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:14:00 -
[161] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:No because nobody else has done what somer are doing. Nobody else has been told that this was acceptable to do. Even if it is and now everyone is allowed to do it, that alone indicates favoritism.
Has anybody ever asked?
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:We go back to the point that CCP have apparently ruled this is not a form of RMT which makes your last statement invalid. No, we're at the point where Somer says that CCP has ruled that this is not a form of RMT. If they're telling the truth then it's possible they got some rookie/careless/apathetic GM who gave them the green light, and this isn't actually a new direction in CCP's policy at all.
That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
561
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:15:00 -
[162] - Quote
So theoretically-speaking, if this is made all above board (Heh ), lets say theoretically if I was in desperate need of isk, and a "friend" who was no longer interested in EvE had lots of isk he no longer wanted, he could get himself made an affiliate, and sell me Plex for CCP-price, and get a kickback for his trouble, which then if I had a "sudden and unexpected change of heart", I could then use his "patent and legit" buyback service that gives me 10% more isk than if I'd sold on market.
Then, lets say, I realised I actually really needed that Plex from him, I could buy it again, and he gets another sweet kickback, but get this, I'm like, really, really indecisive, so I let him buyback that same plex again, again for 10% more isk (he's such a swell guy!).
I think I'm good, but I take a "knock to the head", and forget why I didn't need that Plex, so I buy it off him yet again (that Plex is getting some mileage, and he's getting some kickback), but I "get better", and him being such a decent guy, lets me drop it though his buyback scheme again, and again I get that 10% for my trouble (he's too decent a guy obviously to only make me get it once, what a friend!). And again, and again. And this isn't RMT?
[Edit - Heh, apologies, phone ] |
Prince Kobol
2052
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:16:00 -
[163] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:So theoretically-speaking, if this is made all above board (Heh ), lets say theoretically if I was in desperate need of isk, and a "friend" who was no longer interested in EvE had lots of isk he no longer wanted, he could get himself made an affiliate, and sell me Plex for CCP-price, and get a kickback for his trouble, which then if I had a "sudden and unexpected change of heart", I could then use his "patent and legit" buyback service that gives me 10% more isk than if I'd sold on market. Then, lets say, I realised I actually really needed that Plex from him, I could buy it again, and he gets another sweet kickback, but get this, I'm like, really, really indecisive, so I let him buyback that same plex again, again for 10% more isk (he's such a swell guy!). I think I'm good, but I take a "knock to the head", and forget why I didn't need that Plex, so I buy it off him yet again (that Plex is getting some mileage, and he's getting some kickback), but I "get better", and him being such a decent guy, lets me drop it though his buyback scheme again, and again I get that 10% for my trouble (he's too decent a guy obviously to only make me get it once, what a friend!). And again, and again. And this isn't RMT?
Dude, paragraphs please
If I get the gist of what you are saying, so long as CCP say its okay then sure, why not |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23929
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:20:00 -
[164] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? I don't think anyone is blaming SomerGǪ much. The ire is over the preferential treatment such a ruling would confer. The largest portion of blame lies with CCP for not enforcing their rules properly.
Somer is just your average scoundrel stealing gambler's money. That's what gamblers are for. I suppose that some blame could be assigned for trying the same scheme twice, only it's much more simplified and blatant this time around, even though it got shut down hard last time.
e: way to prove me wrong. vvv GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11095
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:24:00 -
[165] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? I'm blaming somer all I like. Try and stop me. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Prince Kobol
2053
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:25:00 -
[166] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? I don't think anyone is blaming SomerGǪ much. The ire is over the preferential treatment such a ruling would confer. The largest portion of blame lies with CCP for not enforcing their rules properly. Somer is just your average scoundrel stealing gambler's money. That's what gamblers are for. I suppose that some blame could be assigned for trying the same scheme twice, only it's much more simplified and blatant this time around, even though it got shut down hard last time.
Unfortunately most of the posts on this forum is grr Somer when it should be aimed directly at CCP.
For a game where the community prides itself on cheating, scamming, meta play, stretching the rules to breaking point the amount of butt hurt towards Somer is staggering.
For me the blame should be solely at CCP's feet if they did indeed allow this. Also I do not believe for one moment a GM would take this kind of decision without consulting somebody higher up.
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4321
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:26:00 -
[167] - Quote
Now there's a hope that CCP will give a response that isn't just empty PR speak. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
1148
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:05:00 -
[168] - Quote
To ban Somer would make the banned RMT ISK graph take a nice little jump this month. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Clyde Barrows
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:25:00 -
[169] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:How about this guys:
EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
That just about sums it up for me.
I like this rule . Seems like it is being circumvented by CCP for Somer . |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:27:00 -
[170] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Now there's a hope that CCP will give a response that isn't just empty PR speak. There's a first time for everything. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4094
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:28:00 -
[171] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Then give an example of somebody doing this and being stopped by CCP and I will whole heartily agree with you. Did you miss this last year? Some had to stop because it was clearly a convoluted form of RMT. They try to mix it up as much as they can. btu the end result is that they give out isk and receive money. For that CCP forced them to stop. Around the same time, other people started rolling out the same thing as a form of protest and were also asked to stop. It seems like Somer have now managed to get a GM to say it's OK, which is likely against CCPs policy, so they can roll out the same thing.
Prince Kobol wrote:That is fair enough but you can not blame Somer for that. If indeed that is what has happened, a GM has given them the green light how can be be Somers fault? You most certainly can blame Somer for it. They know full well it's not allowed, as they were told to stop (though they milked out as much as they could by increasing the reward when they were given a deadline to stop it), and now they are back to the same trick with a slightly more confusing structure, as if we're not going to notice it's the same thing.
At this point, I'm all for Somer getting full RMTer treatment and being permabanned across the board. It's clear that they aren't interested in stopping and will continue to try to convert their scammed isk into real currency, so they should be treated the same as other RMTers. If CCP don't bring down considerably more decisive action this time round, there will be a great many people who will be, let's say less than pleased. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
139
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:29:00 -
[172] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: Again, I understand it just fine, and it's no different from any other witch hunt I've been privy to. Fallacious garbage? Can you say "irony"? Because you just described the entire thread. Which I did read and assess correctly, and that includes examining Somer's Blink Credit page.
This is "Grr Somer". That's all this is.
This has nothing to do with witch hunt or because we hate SOMER, maybe some do, but I certainly don't. I have made a lot of ISK with them (and I don't mean because I was lucky). They basically financed my ganking when I started before it became self sustaining (I am happy to give you details if you don't believe me). So I have no problem with their gambling service.
They always sold PLEX and made money from it, that is not the problem. The problem starts when they give you extra ISK when you purchase the PLEX from them and not from somewhere else. And that's what they do now, they try to obfuscate it a bit with this PLEX credit, but in the end it is pretty straight forward "if you buy PLEX from us you get additional ISK".
They claim this is CCP sanctioned, we will see about that. CCP Falcons response indicated that they are as surprised about this new service as everyone else.
If this is indeed CCP sanctioned then the question is can all the other PLEX resellers run a similar program and basically try to improve their PLEX sales by offering even more additional ISK for the buyer. It is not really hard to see that some dude with trillions of ISK would jump on this and basically sell his ISK stash for better PLEX sales and therefor more RL $ from the cut you get when you sell a PLEX.
If this is not CCP sanctioned then SOMER should face the consequences everyone else would face if they sell ISK for $ because in the end that is what it all boils down too. Of course this is CCPs decision and they already demonstrated a year ago that SOMER is basically a friend of the sheriff. Let's hope they have grown a bit (ahahahaha, yeah, that's not even funny). the Code ALWAYS wins |
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
635
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:34:00 -
[173] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Is it possible that Markee Dragon is the person behind Somerset Mahm?
I was thinking the same thing. He's the type that makes his living RMT'ing MMO's. From what I've read online, he's caused a shitstorm in a few of the mainstream MMO's. Do a little googling around and you'll find lots to read.
o/
They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake. |
Victor Andall
710
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:36:00 -
[174] - Quote
Belt Scout wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Is it possible that Markee Dragon is the person behind Somerset Mahm? I was thinking the same thing. He's the type that makes his living RMT'ing MMO's. From what I've read online, he's caused a shitstorm in a few of the mainstream MMO's. Do a little googling around and you'll find lots to read. o/
Markee Dragon has been featured by CCP in the Community Highlights one.
THE PLOT!
SHE THICKENS! I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? |
GreenSeed
1113
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:43:00 -
[175] - Quote
be nice, shes just big boned. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4094
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:44:00 -
[176] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Again, I understand it just fine, and it's no different from any other witch hunt I've been privy to. Fallacious garbage? Can you say "irony"? Because you just described the entire thread. Which I did read and assess correctly, and that includes examining Somer's Blink Credit page.
This is "Grr Somer". That's all this is. It's not really a witch hunt at all. Somer pay people isk and receive money. That's RMT. Just because they use a convoluted method of receiving their funds doesn't make it any else RMT. Somer should receive the exact same punishment as any other RMTers. Somer have possibly got a GM to agree that it's OK this time round, which makes matters worse, since it's unlikely to be CCPs policy to allow RMT, meaning that Somer knowingly convinced a GM to put themselves in a bad position.
As for the resellers, there's no issues with the affiliate GTC programs if they are operating in the "normal" way, though it is not really a surprise that the reseller helping out Somer is run by a notorious RMTer for other games.
CCP really need to investigate Somer on a deeper level anyway, since it's been suggested before that they use shill accounts to "win" large amounts of isk, then that winning account later RMTs that isk and gets banned, with them losing nothing but a shill account in the process, and having deniability. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Faeana
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 13:54:00 -
[177] - Quote
In case some people didn't notice, click the bounty tab in game, guess who is at the top spot, no doubt bountied himself to take advantage of the free advertising - MarkeeDragon. |
Marsha Mallow
1437
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:01:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:I'll be meeting with a few departments within CCP this afternoon (UTC) then I'll come back to you this afternoon with some clear and concise answers. Thanks for responding to this promptly.
At this point the only statement worth making is that this practice has been suspended pending review with immediate effect.
Please don't allow Somer/MD another 14 day grace period. This systematic exploitation of the affiliate system might generate bursts of revenue for all involved, but it's costing CCP in lost player goodwill.
When high profile community figures start making statements like this it's about time to start paying attention. Nothing personal to Somer, but if I wanted to hear about someone earning 100k a year through monetised eve related services, it'd be Chribba. Not someone running a dodgy lotto scam site. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
402
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:04:00 -
[179] - Quote
Blanket ban on all somer accounts taking of all isk and assets closeing down of website the lot
and a nice detailed report from CCP on how many accounts where banned and how much isk was disposed of. |
De'Veldrin
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
2850
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 14:14:00 -
[180] - Quote
Shall we all stage laser battleships at the monument in preparation for the inevitable end to this discuission where nothing changes and we need to rageroll Jita to get CCP to pay attention? De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
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