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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7690
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Resources are important, but if EVE history is any judge, the best driver of conflict is 'cultural' differences like what existed between BoB and Goons and the old NC and the Russians. Most of the best fighting EVE ever saw was under the old crappy super-grind SOV system. When people want to fight, they will fight regardless of the SOV system.
Dont you think, that's exactly the reason why we don't see such fights anymore?. Bad "plant-a-flag" sov mechanic = no Russians in sov because they understands that its pointless? You can have much more fun in NPC low-sec...that's reality of EVE these days. \
I think it's natural that people want to find 1 definitive thing to blame a problem (or perceived) problem on. Human being don't like to 'not know' and feel much more comfortable if a situation is 'change this one thing and everything will be fine'. Problem is that nothing in life (not even sandbox video games) work like this.
I can't tell you why the Russians are bumrushing for SOV right now even though as a group they had successes under the current SOV system (and MASSIVE success before the current SOV system). I can't tell you what a system that works looks like.
What I do know is that history keeps repeating itself and changes aimed at making things better tend to make things worse (evidence: Dominion, which most people loved when it came out as it free'd them from the 'POS grind").
There is also another risk, I call it the "anything is better than this/how could this possobly get any worse" fallacy. People hate the current SOV system so much that "ANYTHING must be better right?". That's how bad game design happens, people hate something, they clamour for change and DEVs respond with well intended changes that backfire. I see it in many of the SOV ideas people think are fool proof.
I think the developers of EVE online may have painted themselves into a corner with null sec and the current overall design of EVE online. I'm not nostalgic usually, but the EVE I started playing had much less 'content'; no incursions, no wormholes, no faction warfare , no marauders to make high sec PVE super easy and null sec was a super irritating EHP Grind that makes today look like a cake walk. It had REAL Doomsdays and you didn't HAVE to have a non-null sec isk making alt (whether pve or trade) to stay afloat.
And yet many people from that era will tell you that EVE was more fun. I remember struggling to find a system where I could chain belts in Omist to get enough isk to buy ships to PVP against Red Alliance with, now I can warp to respawning forsaken hubs at will all night long. Sure, it puts more isk in my wallet but the struggles of the past were fun. maybe CCP has stuffed too much "content" into EVE and now people have so many more options than SOV null that SOV null is and will remain irrelevant.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6383
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I can't tell you why the Russians are bumrushing for SOV right now even though as a group they had successes under the current SOV system (and MASSIVE success before the current SOV system). I can't tell you what a system that works looks like. But surely this is general discussion, everyone knows what an ideal sov system looks like ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6383
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:08:00 -
[63] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: I'm not nostalgic usually
...
It had REAL Doomsdays Titans, rare and powerful.
Major alliances... maybe two, PERHAPS as many as three ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5340
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:22:00 -
[64] - Quote
DeadDuck wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Make all resources finite. I don't understand how you could possibly think that that's a good idea. Yeah, let's definitely implement a game mechanic that sets an upper limit on how long this game can last. I think he is referring to the case that you find some moon mins, explore them and after a few days/months, the deposit ends. Pretty much what happens in all natural resources industrys. In the game you could easily implement this mechanic based on a random factor, chance based and according with the moon types. The R64 Moons would have better depots and the lowest worst depots. But the depots them selves of mins would be chance based and randomly deployed thru the entire galaxy. That would mean you could have a thulium depot in a Tribute Region system that would last for let's say 90 days of exploration and after that deposit was squeezed the same amount of thulium could be available in 2 other systems in 2 diferent regions with depots only reaching 45 days each because the moon quality. So the resources would not be finite they would be regenerated across the entire galaxy. This would mean the current situation of conquer the moon, deploy the pos/PI stuff and wait for the isks would end. Since the resources in the deposit would be finite. How could this be explained ? Easy, it's simply impossible to discover all the resources of a moon all in a sudden. The discovery of new mineral depots could be advertised across universe using the several NPC news corporations (Amarr Certified News for example) and all the capsuleers would know that in that day a New Thulium Depot estimated in xxxxx m3 of mins, that would last for at least 90 days of mining was found in the 15W-GC V - Moon 1 system, again a example. Are you people imagining the fights you could gather the day someone said that in a low sec system a hole full of money was available for grabs ?
I love it when others can articulate my ideas better than I can.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1199
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 15:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:DeadDuck wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Make all resources finite. I don't understand how you could possibly think that that's a good idea. Yeah, let's definitely implement a game mechanic that sets an upper limit on how long this game can last. I think he is referring to the case that you find some moon mins, explore them and after a few days/months, the deposit ends. Pretty much what happens in all natural resources industrys. In the game you could easily implement this mechanic based on a random factor, chance based and according with the moon types. The R64 Moons would have better depots and the lowest worst depots. But the depots them selves of mins would be chance based and randomly deployed thru the entire galaxy. That would mean you could have a thulium depot in a Tribute Region system that would last for let's say 90 days of exploration and after that deposit was squeezed the same amount of thulium could be available in 2 other systems in 2 diferent regions with depots only reaching 45 days each because the moon quality. So the resources would not be finite they would be regenerated across the entire galaxy. This would mean the current situation of conquer the moon, deploy the pos/PI stuff and wait for the isks would end. Since the resources in the deposit would be finite. How could this be explained ? Easy, it's simply impossible to discover all the resources of a moon all in a sudden. The discovery of new mineral depots could be advertised across universe using the several NPC news corporations (Amarr Certified News for example) and all the capsuleers would know that in that day a New Thulium Depot estimated in xxxxx m3 of mins, that would last for at least 90 days of mining was found in the 15W-GC V - Moon 1 system, again a example. Are you people imagining the fights you could gather the day someone said that in a low sec system a hole full of money was available for grabs ? I love it when others can articulate my ideas better than I can.
Except ideas like that only add more stuff to do to the logistical team which are the few enabler in the first place. What if a money moon "spawn" on a tower used for JB network? Tear it down and reset the network on another moon. Then it happena gain 45 days later. How fun would it be to constantly having to reset all that stuff? People can find where the money moon are now and they don't constantly generate fight when we know they are a permanent cash cow. You think people will throw everything in fights for 90 days worth of material when they don't for materials until you lose the tower? |
Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
90
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:20:00 -
[66] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Video is HERE. What do you all think of null?
That was dumb. Same thing could be shown of RL nations. So what?
Find something in the game that gives you entertainment and go do. Worrying or bitching about what the masses are doing is a waste of time. Enjoy the game for yourself and your friends around you. If not, then you're just simply losing at internet spaceships. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5407
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 16:46:00 -
[67] - Quote
Why are some people getting angry at me??? I don't decide the standings or who to war with or any of that. I'm just a line member. Why the hate? The Paradox |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
383
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
Frankly, I don't think of null. I think of scantily clad wimmen traipsing about a beach. Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1035
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
I just saw a NCdot super fleet jump 5 mids in less than 10 minutes to save a titan. I guess power projection is only broken when we do it? EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7693
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 17:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Frankly, I don't think of null. I think of scantily clad wimmen traipsing about a beach.
REFRESHER: There was BoB. BoB = Big Blue Blob. Play was confined to a s m a l l not blue section with people crying and bitchin' and moanin' about BoB this, BoB that, BoB's ruinin' the game. BoB sucks. BoB's goin', "Yeah? QQ some more for us suckahs!"
THEN - this very loosely organized "coalition" using luck and the fact BoB hadn't actually had players IN those blue dots for a LONG time...overturn BoB. Undo BoB. Dissolute BoB. (Poor BoB!) This wasn't so long ago, by the way.
NOW - after a period of transition, stasis, change, wtf - over we have the Blue Donut. Blue Donut this. Blue Donut that. Blue Donut sucks. Blue Donut's goin', "Yeah? QQ some more for us suckahs!"
TOMORROW - a loose coalition gets off their asses and discovers Blue Donut is more **** than vinegar. Blue Donut gets dunked.
THEN - period of transition..stasis...change? WTF, OVER?
We call this "EVE Online". So glad to have you along.
Well said.
People either weren't here to witness this OR it's been so long since this was reality that they've forgotten the past (which leads to repeating it). It's like damn Battlestar Galactica: This has happened before and it will happen again lol.
I remember being in Raiden and IT before that hearing people say "look at the map, NC (allied with goons) to the north, Russians in the South, they are both so big and strong that nothing will ever change.
Then it changed lol. |
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Legetus Shmoof Metallii
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
15
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Posted - 2014.08.19 17:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
I laughed and then I cried.
Grr Goons Death2allsupers EVE is dying #rekt |
TharOkha
0asis Group
917
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
well..
Its time to **** daughter of CFC Boss and blame N3. for it
but...pssssht Do not tell anybody CODE. in a nutshell |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
716
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:07:00 -
[73] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Why are some people getting angry at me??? I don't decide the standings or who to war with or any of that. I'm just a line member. Why the hate? I can tell you why: for the same reason that people "grr gons" to every single member of GSF.
I didn't say it would make sense. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5408
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:08:00 -
[74] - Quote
Rhes wrote:I just saw a NCdot super fleet jump 5 mids in less than 10 minutes to save a titan. I guess power projection is only broken when we do it? That's right!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Or maybe, join the good fight and support ideas based on power projection rebalancing? You can be a free person and not be subjected to someone up high telling you how to think. I believe in you!
EDIT: I hope you realize; supers or massive amounts of numbers in subcaps teleporting across the map are the same cancer. The Paradox |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
716
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 18:18:00 -
[75] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:So are you all saying that this "plant a flag and afk" is OK sov mechanics? I don't think anyone is saying it's okay. However, what I am getting from Jenn is that no matter what system is put in place, human nature will eventually drive us to coalesce into a couple of superpowers.
In all reality, he's probably right. However, I do not believe that this means that we should stop trying to find a better and more engaging system.
As I've said, right now, null is a LOT of work for a couple of people. Most of the rest just sit around waiting on fleets, or shooting at red crosses, which has precisely zero effect on maintaining sov, except for the increasingly rare occasions when you have to actively defend your planted flag. |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.08.19 21:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
Just make all null npc problem solved. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
71
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Posted - 2014.08.19 21:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Video is HERE. What do you all think of null?
I think you should lead by example. Use your CFC director spies in FC and TNT to reset the rest of that blob and awox everything that moves in fountain, while simultaneously getting N3 to declare whole sale war on PL. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6383
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 23:06:00 -
[78] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:As I've said, right now, null is a LOT of work for a couple of people. Most of the rest just sit around waiting on fleets, or shooting at red crosses, which has precisely zero effect on maintaining sov, except for the increasingly rare occasions when you have to actively defend your planted flag. So this is about apex forces now? ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Marsha Mallow
1450
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 23:25:00 -
[79] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:If you have any ability to be honest....
But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your ranting and anti-null prejudice. It was just poking fun. Stop taking it so personally. I've invested enough time and effort into null to remark, but refrained from doing so in public out of respect for others. Time's up. If you can't handle being mocked, tough. There's a reason some of the ranting deserves to be ribbed. Short version: this is what happens when you winwinwin (then whinge). Nice sandcastle, lads, can I kick it? Hang on while I get my glasses to read your 9000 word dissertation over why you failed/won/are suffering from erectile dysfunction due to mechanics.
The 'failures' have been mocked for so long without a proper retort, it's become acceptable. I don't know whether this is middle-age creep, boredom, or just arrogance - but I would really like to see whether the big blue waffle can sustain itself on leaches and badposters, whilst they leak their competent PVPers from every offirice. Why shouldn't the rest of us popcorn while you nerdrage? If you are silly enough to sell your intime fun for SRP you deserve to be derided. We're not playing your game.
I'd rather pick the underdog in any fight, try and fail spectacularly (and enjoy it) than sit in an iwin blob. If you aren't enjoying winning, ehm... good.
I'm enjoying reading the lengthy iterations on 'War and Peace' or 'The Art of War' on every forum and blogsite available. These mechanics have been snowballing for half a decade. The winners mouthed their way out of them, and the losers were slammed for pointing out obvious gameplay flaws. Please take a moment to breathe before you start yabbering again. Regurgitating the problems - or even insightfully pointing out specific issues is just more noise.
Either write up a solution, support/critique those who do, or shut your trap. ps. I''ll be back in null within a month, shitbird, but I won't be using an alt to dribble on the forums DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5415
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 02:53:00 -
[80] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Video is HERE. What do you all think of null? I think you should lead by example. Use your CFC director spies in FC and TNT to reset the rest of that blob and awox everything that moves in fountain, while simultaneously getting N3 to declare whole sale war on PL. How the hell do you know about me TNT director spy? No one does and you just pull that out of your butt like that.
Go play the lottery. The Paradox |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6383
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Posted - 2014.08.20 02:58:00 -
[81] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:If you are silly enough to sell your intime fun for SRP you deserve to be derided. Ahh, I haven't gotten any srp in a long time.
Maybe someday someone will put isk on field to destroy our wrecking ballapex force. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7708
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:02:00 -
[82] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:If you have any ability to be honest....
But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your ranting and anti-null prejudice. It was just poking fun. Stop taking it so personally. I've invested enough time and effort into null to remark, but refrained from doing so in public out of respect for others. Time's up. If you can't handle being mocked, tough. There's a reason some of the ranting deserves to be ribbed. Short version: this is what happens when you winwinwin (then whinge). Nice sandcastle, lads, can I kick it? Hang on while I get my glasses to read your 9000 word dissertation over why you failed/won/are suffering from erectile dysfunction due to mechanics. The 'failures' have been mocked for so long without a proper retort, it's become acceptable. I don't know whether this is middle-age creep, boredom, or just arrogance - but I would really like to see whether the big blue waffle can sustain itself on leaches and badposters, whilst they leak their competent PVPers from every offirice. Why shouldn't the rest of us popcorn while you nerdrage? If you are silly enough to sell your intime fun for SRP you deserve to be derided. We're not playing your game. I'd rather pick the underdog in any fight, try and fail spectacularly (and enjoy it) than sit in an iwin blob. If you aren't enjoying winning, ehm... good. I'm enjoying reading the lengthy iterations on 'War and Peace' or 'The Art of War' on every forum and blogsite available. These mechanics have been snowballing for half a decade. The winners mouthed their way out of them, and the losers were slammed for pointing out obvious gameplay flaws. Please take a moment to breathe before you start yabbering again. Regurgitating the problems - or even insightfully pointing out specific issues is just more noise. Either write up a solution, support/critique those who do, or shut your trap. ps. I''ll be back in null within a month, shitbird, but I won't be using an alt to dribble on the forums
The problem with all that bullshit is that I'm an individual, I'm not ~null sec~ nor am I mittani or whoever you are stupidly cluming me and every other null sec player. Next time try at least pretending you're an adult (at least when you reply to me, if you are able, which I doubt) and make sense when you post.
Leave that prejudice at home , because you do't know anything whatsoever about me and why I play (and enjoy) a video game the way I do. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6383
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 04:06:00 -
[83] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:If you have any ability to be honest....
But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your ranting and anti-null prejudice. It was just poking fun. Stop taking it so personally. I've invested enough time and effort into null to remark, but refrained from doing so in public out of respect for others. Time's up. If you can't handle being mocked, tough. There's a reason some of the ranting deserves to be ribbed. Short version: this is what happens when you winwinwin (then whinge). Nice sandcastle, lads, can I kick it? Hang on while I get my glasses to read your 9000 word dissertation over why you failed/won/are suffering from erectile dysfunction due to mechanics. The 'failures' have been mocked for so long without a proper retort, it's become acceptable. I don't know whether this is middle-age creep, boredom, or just arrogance - but I would really like to see whether the big blue waffle can sustain itself on leaches and badposters, whilst they leak their competent PVPers from every offirice. Why shouldn't the rest of us popcorn while you nerdrage? If you are silly enough to sell your intime fun for SRP you deserve to be derided. We're not playing your game. I'd rather pick the underdog in any fight, try and fail spectacularly (and enjoy it) than sit in an iwin blob. If you aren't enjoying winning, ehm... good. I'm enjoying reading the lengthy iterations on 'War and Peace' or 'The Art of War' on every forum and blogsite available. These mechanics have been snowballing for half a decade. The winners mouthed their way out of them, and the losers were slammed for pointing out obvious gameplay flaws. Please take a moment to breathe before you start yabbering again. Regurgitating the problems - or even insightfully pointing out specific issues is just more noise. Either write up a solution, support/critique those who do, or shut your trap. ps. I''ll be back in null within a month, shitbird, but I won't be using an alt to dribble on the forums The problem with all that bullshit is that I'm an individual, I'm not ~null sec~ nor am I mittani or whoever you are stupidly cluming me and every other null sec player. Next time try at least pretending you're an adult (at least when you reply to me, if you are able, which I doubt) and make sense when you post. Leave that prejudice at home , because you do't know anything whatsoever about me and why I play (and enjoy) a video game the way I do. No please ignore them, that prejudice deserves its time in the spotlight here in General Discussion. By all means, please keep posting it all, right here. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
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