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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20254
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Posted - 2014.08.20 13:50:00 -
[991] - Quote
Aelyras Altol wrote:So all this outrage about blink, what about the eve news sites which pay people to write articles in isk, and then generate revenue through ads? Paying people with ISK for Eve related news articles and opinion pieces is explicitly allowed by CCP, monetisation through ads is also fine as far as I'm aware.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."-á - Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1498
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Posted - 2014.08.20 13:51:00 -
[992] - Quote
What concerns me is that someone can get permanently banned after being sworn at, called "the N word" and receiving death threats after asking someone to sing about Gummy Bears over TS3... but someone else who RMTs (after lying to CCP) just gets a slap on the wrist. Epic Space Cat |
Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
65
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Posted - 2014.08.20 13:51:00 -
[993] - Quote
111010110 wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:111010110 wrote:So, is the CSM taking the Somer angle only, or are folks wondering about the role of Markee and the influence achieved on "his" EVE market since the Margin Wars?
The CSM has been given an incredible amount of access and data on all of this, and is of course considering all angles as well. We'll be as open as we can when we can, for now though we're going to keep doing our jobs to help ensure the best end result for the EVE community as a whole. I realise that CCP will focus on the revenu aspects of this as well. It's a business, and ever since CCP's management moved away from the actual dynamic that's become a growing factor. With good consequences, but also with .. less than optimal consequences. As was said elsewhere on another forum, for players that Somer correspondence would have been clear right off the bat. For CCP who focuses on the commercial aspects, not. And it's a grey area with legal ramifications as well. But I hope that this is one situation where CSM does not let CCP simply close the door on that (in terms of what you will be allowed to talk about) for a very simple reason: CCP's integrity is directly related to their perception. We saw that once when a certain someone said CCP would look at what players do, and not what they say. The reverse holds true as well, especially when taking into account that this is not the first time this situation has crashed the proverbial table. Let's not forget that when push comes to shove Somer was an ideal instrument for something like Markee Dragon to get a hold of their EVE market. The stamp of legitimisation. Problem is, where it comes to the trust relation customers will need to see more than just the Somer angle to affirm that relation. It's been a huge factor in the past, time and time again. It still is. This really is a case where the standard routine of "feedback instrument so stick to in game stuff" doesn't cut it, but CCP does have a bit of a history of not realising how an iron curtain there in these kinds of circumstances hurts them in the long run.
What would you like to see happen, ideally?
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111010110
The Darwin Initiative
14
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Posted - 2014.08.20 13:52:00 -
[994] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:yo Outamon wrote:Not blaming anyone. just wanted to know the plan if any for the reinbersment of isk that was put in by many to gain tokens to win prizes that won't be dished out that all Keep calm eat bacon. There will be no reimbursement from CCP for this. And if you want a source for that statement, go look at Falcon's post about Blink shutting down. CCP in no way guarantee any isk given to people in game. (Just look at Eve Bank and Phaser Inc.)
Which is in accordance with rules, and it's a good thing. A good indicator also that CCP did learn from the previous upheaval when compensation was provided.
That last part is probably one of the bigger reasons why many players were so quick to look at the next scheme, and see its nature and consequences. |
Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment HUN Reloaded
1
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Posted - 2014.08.20 13:56:00 -
[995] - Quote
I do not really understand that epic hissy.
Somer offered a promotion, that he would buy your ingame plex, if you buy timecode from him. This code is full legal, since he is an official reseller. This is an out of game code. When Somer buys the plex from you it could be come from this code, or from another plex, but all of the plexes are come from out of the game. At the start of the promotion plex was 788M, he offered a 800M buy for it. There was nothing written about if it will be rising, if plex's price will be rising. And he offered to buy plex from you, not give you ingame plex (for real money).
After that will I be banned if I tell to a friend in the bar: "if you buy me a nice honeybeer i will buy your drake for a better price then the market's price"? Or just if i talk about this on a website? Or just if it is about plex? Or just if it is a code what you can claim as a plex? Giving free playable ISK was another story - it was much more RMT-like. But I don't think this is it. Especially until it did not start, none of you are able to tell it is or not, couse until it is just "maybe", or "could be", or "sounds like". Yeah, I can't quote the EULA, but i have to say, since I work in the law-system, you cannot do with this anything from the side of the law.
Since everything is owned by CCP he can say "this is too good, there is a hole in our EULA or in the law". Sure he can. But start this blame-war is just simply stupid, and it seems that if you have a good idea, we will wait what the community say, and tear you apart if they go to rage. I simply can't imagine that the "buy plex for bonus somer-credit" never came to the sight of CCP, until that big hissy started at the end... |
CroisisCZ
Everyone vs Everything THE R0NIN
23
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Posted - 2014.08.20 14:02:00 -
[996] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:After that will I be banned if I tell to a friend in the bar: "if you buy me a nice honeybeer i will buy your drake for a better price then the market's price"?
This sounds like RMT to me, hands down... Your friend pays real money for ingame benefit... |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11018
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:02:00 -
[997] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:Somer offered a promotion, that he would buy your ingame plex, if you buy timecode from him. This code is full legal, since he is an official reseller. This is an out of game code. When Somer buys the plex from you it could be come from this code, or from another plex, but all of the plexes are come from out of the game. At the start of the promotion plex was 788M, he offered a 800M buy for it. There was nothing written about if it will be rising, if plex's price will be rising. And he offered to buy plex from you, not give you ingame plex (for real money).
Because in exchange for you buying a PLEX code from Markee Dragon with Somer's referral code, he'll buy the PLEX from you at above market rates. So basically, you give him money (through a middleman) and he gives you ISK (by buying a PLEX at a higher price) Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Ace Boogi
Republic University Minmatar Republic
290
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Posted - 2014.08.20 14:02:00 -
[998] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Good morning everyone ...lots of awesome... You've handled this very well thus far. I agree with Chribba and others that this investigation should not be over until everything has been uncovered and any rulebreakers have been punished appropriately, and I am happy to see that there is consensus here.
Thanks for all the hard work, looking forward to the future updates :) |
Tyrendian Biohazard
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
333
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:18:00 -
[999] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:I do not really understand that epic hissy.
Somer offered a promotion, that he would buy your ingame plex, if you buy timecode from him. This code is full legal, since he is an official reseller. This is an out of game code. When Somer buys the plex from you it could be come from this code, or from another plex, but all of the plexes are come from out of the game. At the start of the promotion plex was 788M, he offered a 800M buy for it. There was nothing written about if it will be rising, if plex's price will be rising. And he offered to buy plex from you, not give you ingame plex (for real money).
I believe that Somer is not an official re-seller, but rather was using an affiliate link through an official re-seller (Markee Dragon) in which they received a cut for being a referral. That being said, the proposal that they had given stated specifically:
Quote:Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required.
The problem was, they were offering additional incentive to do this deal (in the form of buying the PLEX codes at above market costs).
The other thing I wonder is (and I haven't seen) did Somer ONLY accept codes purchased from Markee Dragon, or would any PLEX code purchase suffice? Was a list of PLEX codes sold via Somer's referral link kept and only those codes could be redeemed on their site.
EDIT: Removed a speculative sentence. My twitch stream to help new players: http://www.twitch.tv/biohazrd51
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Jai Centarium
Anqara Expeditions
53
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Posted - 2014.08.20 14:18:00 -
[1000] - Quote
How many Ishukone Scorps are you going to award Somer for shutting down and refunding money? Certified purveyor of the High Life. |
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Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
137
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Posted - 2014.08.20 14:23:00 -
[1001] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:I do not really understand that epic hissy. That's because you haven't read the thread, or even parts of it, not even the blue posts. That is the reason why you're repeating the same old arguments, which have already been debated to death again, and again, and then once more. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
217
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Posted - 2014.08.20 14:24:00 -
[1002] - Quote
Chribba wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Given that weGÇÖre unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, itGÇÖs good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets. While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution. WeGÇÖll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM. This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM. Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close. So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done... I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this. /c
+1 Senex Legio |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
137
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:27:00 -
[1003] - Quote
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:The other thing I wonder is (and I haven't seen) did Somer ONLY accept codes purchased from Markee Dragon, or would any PLEX code purchase suffice? Was a list of PLEX codes sold via Somer's referral link kept and only those codes could be redeemed on their site. He wasn't going to pay for GTC codes, he'd buy PLEX (the ingame item). But only one for every PLEX code you bought via his affiliate link. Since PLEX are fungible, he wouldn't care where you got that exact PLEX you're giving him, just that the number in the contract matches the amount you bought from Markee Dragon. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Random McNally
Isogen 5
69719
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:28:00 -
[1004] - Quote
Thanks Falcon and CCP for looking into this.
Co-Host of the High Drag Podcast. http://highdrag.wordpress.com/ Check out the space music at http://minddivided.com In Game Channel HighDragChat |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
726
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Posted - 2014.08.20 14:28:00 -
[1005] - Quote
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:
The other thing I wonder is (and I haven't seen) did Somer ONLY accept codes purchased from Markee Dragon, or would any PLEX code purchase suffice? Was a list of PLEX codes sold via Somer's referral link kept and only those codes could be redeemed on their site.
EDIT: Removed a speculative sentence.
You (in general) would have to have purchased GTC via Markee Dragon (or any other provider somer used but afaik they were only using MD as far back as the back dating goes) originally to get credit to use to exchange PLEX for ISK. It doesn't matter where the PLEX came from though as long as you had credit to enable the transaction. If you had say 20 credits from past GTC referrals you could have bought 20 PLEX on the market and exchanged them for 830M ISK each. |
Kw1jybo
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
5
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:29:00 -
[1006] - Quote
CCP Falcon,
For those of us who like to skim the forums at work, can you tl;dr this with exec updates to your first post in this thread. I go to my 1 hour meeting and come back and the thread is like 5 pages longer, and to be honest all I really care about are any updates you may have about this.
thanks. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:30:00 -
[1007] - Quote
Kw1jybo wrote:CCP Falcon,
For those of us who like to skim the forums at work, can you tl;dr this with exec updates to your first post in this thread. I go to my 1 hour meeting and come back and the thread is like 5 pages longer, and to be honest all I really care about are any updates you may have about this.
thanks.
You can keep clicking on the blue eve dev bar on the avatar to go to the next dev post without having to wade through everything inbetween. |
Tyrendian Biohazard
Ubiquitous Hurt Exodus.
333
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:32:00 -
[1008] - Quote
Thanks for the clarification Enaris and Rroff. I had looked at the site quickly and thought that it was all based on codes. Makes more sense now. My twitch stream to help new players: http://www.twitch.tv/biohazrd51
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Kw1jybo
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
5
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Posted - 2014.08.20 14:32:00 -
[1009] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Kw1jybo wrote:CCP Falcon,
For those of us who like to skim the forums at work, can you tl;dr this with exec updates to your first post in this thread. I go to my 1 hour meeting and come back and the thread is like 5 pages longer, and to be honest all I really care about are any updates you may have about this.
thanks. You can keep clicking on the blue eve dev bar on the avatar to go to the next dev post without having to wade through everything inbetween.
You, sir, are a genius. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11026
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:32:00 -
[1010] - Quote
Is "stakeholders" CCP jargon for "relevant people in CCP" or something? Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
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111010110
The Darwin Initiative
16
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Posted - 2014.08.20 14:35:00 -
[1011] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
What would you like to see happen, ideally?
Tough question. At the end of the day that is in CCP's hands, though to a degree also in the hands of the CSM. In a way it's your job here to prevent CCP from throwing up an iron curtain on "talk about stuff in game, anything else is ours and off limits".
Reason for that is simple. If you can't trust CCP's decisions in these matters, it gets ever harder for people to keep putting faith in the game itself. It creates completely different behaviour, and completely different expectation patterns
I'm sure someone genius in brand management and marketing would put Hilmar and Lisa in front of a camera with Community Management taking them through the various points of confusion / concern / questions emphasing what matters, taking both the human and the professional angles. But I imagine that's a bit of a bridge too far these days for CCP.
Either way, I can't see a devblog with abstracts solving integrity challenges here. Let's be honest, this situation is not the first time. And it isn't just a Somer thing. Keep in mind Markee got his special relationship, his community spotlight, his means to win the previous margin war - before taking in Somer as the instrument to achieve that veil of "legit" to prevent competition remaining a factor over time - while profiting from it in many ways.
It's not as if Markee doesn't have the exact same history of methodology and timelines in situations surrounding other games. I can understand why many people see Somer/Markee as the same thing. And that is a problem for CCP.
I'm much less interested, as most people probably are, in what procedural step here or there at CCP resulted in what issue or what happened before that (by now) infamous correspondence between Lisa and Somer leading to what many perceive as a weird communication thing. I'm much more interested in hearing from CCP how this repeat mess plays out for how they evaluate their external commercial relations. Which matters, because to many people Somer/Markee is symptom of the same. More so, let's not forget the benefits Markee was able to get over time.
People don't know why this happened again. That's a thing. But the rest comes down to the next parts of the investigation. Chribba already pointed that out (a signal in its own right).
And there the Markee angle needs to be put on the table. I understand there will be people at CCP who don't like that, but this is not about them, it's about the nature of the relation between CCP and the evolution of the baby they made. Pun intended, obviously.
Another thing I see a lot of questions about is where this proper cleanup and shutdown from Somer is coming. Someone who has repeatedly attempted to introduce RMT schemes suddenly going all moral? It's why people wonder if CCP pressured that. Or not. Let's not forget that Somer's financial relation is with Markee, not with CCP. And Markee has always demonstrated to seek legitimisation no matter what happens to the intermediaries connected with the target game environment itself. I can understand why it spooks people that such an agency has a veil of special relation. So that is a thing as well. It's a perception problem regardless of the underlying problem either way.
I'd love to see CCP seizing this as an opportunity. Not another kneejerk or knee bending. But a professional and human session of putting everything on the table so folks can maintain that integrity of CCP's relation with its customers. That's not dangerous, CCP should have learned that by now. On the contrary. But that will require them going over what happened, how it happened, what the road towards that was, the parties involved - but even more so about what priorities and considerations are important to them, how that plays out for customers - and all the parties involved. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
726
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:42:00 -
[1012] - Quote
As I missed this earlier:
CCP Falcon wrote:Rroff wrote:Given the lengths some have gone to to stir up anti-blink sentiment to say there has been no witch hunt at all is hardly accurate. There's no witch hunt here on our part. If people stay within the game rules, then we have no problem. If they don't, they get into trouble.
Was not accusing CCP of a witch hunt - I am however aware that certain of the more vocal efforts to have Somer taken down are motivated by something far far from altruistic (even if Somer is in the wrong which in itself I don't have my head around to make a call on).
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Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
184
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Posted - 2014.08.20 14:53:00 -
[1013] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Was not accusing CCP of a witch hunt - I am however aware that certain of the more vocal efforts to have Somer taken down are motivated by something far far from altruistic (even if Somer is in the wrong which in itself I don't have my head around to make a call on).
"I think this is being done, so therefore it must be happening sans any evidence to support the suspicion" LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11029
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 14:55:00 -
[1014] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Was not accusing CCP of a witch hunt - I am however aware that certain of the more vocal efforts to have Somer taken down are motivated by something far far from altruistic (even if Somer is in the wrong which in itself I don't have my head around to make a call on).
so tell me more about these ~ulterior motives~ Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23974
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:03:00 -
[1015] - Quote
Kaoraku Shayiskhun wrote:I do not really understand that epic hissy. You don't understand why people take umbrage at RMT? Are you quite sure you want to go with that question?
By the way, most of what you describe is not how it happened. Somer is not an official reseller; he did offer extra ISK solely in exchange for real cash; and absolutely no-one is tearing apart a good idea.
Andski wrote:Is "stakeholders" CCP jargon for "relevant people in CCP" or something? CCP and CSM and other parties involved in whatever business they're conducting (and yes, even the players occasionally). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
De'Veldrin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2902
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Posted - 2014.08.20 15:06:00 -
[1016] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business.
CCP - posts like this are the reason we need a downvote option on these forums. When people say stupid things, we should have the option of letting them know that what they just said was dumb. De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Phantra
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
102
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Posted - 2014.08.20 15:12:00 -
[1017] - Quote
I was offered -ú50 for a tech moon in earshot of CCP Unifex a couple years back. I think it was supposed to be a joke but he didn't look amused..
CCP take RMTing pretty seriously, even after a few pints |
Kw1jybo
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
5
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Posted - 2014.08.20 15:14:00 -
[1018] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Beta Maoye wrote:I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business. CCP - posts like this are the reason we need a downvote option on these forums. When people say stupid things, we should have the option of letting them know that what they just said was dumb.
+1 |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
17
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Posted - 2014.08.20 15:14:00 -
[1019] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Andski wrote:Is "stakeholders" CCP jargon for "relevant people in CCP" or something? They've been using it for quite some time now. It's basically CCP and CSM and other parties involved in whatever business they're conducting (and yes, even the players occasionally).
Remember when CCP first introduced the terminology & methodology and CSM / Players took those concepts and went to work with it? CCP ended up not liking it very much, to a point where over the course of two CSM terms it went from "stakeholder" to "feedback instrument" reserving the stakeholder term to very limited applications of SCRUM methodology :P
Which is why I was surprised to see Falcon use the term in the current context, which is quite different from what it's been, much closer to during the days of CSM 4 / 5. Understandable, but a tad risky.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11030
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 15:16:00 -
[1020] - Quote
"Stakeholders are essentially any person or group of people who have an interest in your product that arenGÇÖt directly involved with its creation. Basically, anyone who isnGÇÖt a product owner, scrum master or team member is a stakeholder in your product and potentially a useful source for feedback."
http://thescrumblog.blogspot.cz/2011/04/stakeholders-and-feedback-in-scrum.html
huh, forgot about scrum Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
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