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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Viscis Breeze
No Vacancies
54
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Posted - 2014.08.19 11:27:00 -
[211] - Quote
Reading the proposal this quote strikes me:
Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link.
This statement is clearly the exact opposite of what they are doing. Blink has tried to circumvent the problem by giving out PLEX credits which are directly redeemable for extra ISK than a PLEX is worth. I think someone at CCP had the wool pulled over their eyes by this extra step.
Edit: On a side note, I find it interesting that SOMER Blink is generally more transparent than CCP in its activities. Recruitment: http://bit.ly/1r4G5Pv Website: http://www.no-vacancies.net/ Channel: No Vacancies
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
151
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Posted - 2014.08.19 11:27:00 -
[212] - Quote
Some people in this thread have serious issues focusing on the problem at hand.
This is not about SOMERs gambling service.
This is not about earning revenue with ads or other means outside of EVE who are completely isolated from the game.
This is not about PLEX which is indeed a form of CCP sanctioned RMT and is totally legit.
-
This is about SOMER incentivising their PLEX sells with ISK, which is in the end - and a lot of people have already explained why - illegal RMT outside of the normal PLEX mechanism.
Every other player in this game would face a permanent ban on the first offense, this are the rules. This is SOMERs second offense, they already got away the first time because of their good relationships with CCP. The "we asked a GM and it was OK" trick does not work and CCP have demonstrated this many times that they will turn on you anyway even if one GM said it was ok if it is an obvious breach of the EULA, at least for normal players that is.
CCP is of course free to do whatever they like with their game, but if they really go the way and favor one group of players over another this will have implications for the game. EVE is the only product they have that produces revenue and people purchase their PLEXes with or without SOMER Blink. It would be madness to risk this for an online casino a small part of the community uses.
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On another note, I am impressed with CCP Falcons performance, he is really on top of this it seams and he really cares. For the first time in years (yes this is a new char) I feel the community is in good hands. the Code ALWAYS wins |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2014.08.19 11:28:00 -
[213] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Yes...and it would still be RMT, and thus not allowed by CCP rules. Or so I would have thought a few days ago, at any rate. Sure, but without a clear ISK-valued benefit for the consumer there would be not much difference anymore to any other 3rd party service being financed through CCP's affiliate program and player's ISK donations. You're missing the point. It is classified as RMT because SOMER is exchanging an in-game service (PLEX buying) for an out-of-game payment (using their referral link). This means they're trading in-game services for real-world currency which is the definition of RMT. So does for example Dotlan ...it's an valuable in-game service financed also through a GTC/PLEX buying link. Although, as I stated earlier, this is a more indirect connection it still generates real money from an in-game service. To be clear, I'm not defending Somer/Markee, but I would consider it a challenge to formulate clear rules which do not harm all the other presumably non-profit services. I'm my own NPC alt. |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2014.08.19 11:34:00 -
[214] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Yes...and it would still be RMT, and thus not allowed by CCP rules. Or so I would have thought a few days ago, at any rate. Sure, but without a clear ISK-valued benefit for the consumer there would be not much difference anymore to any other 3rd party service being financed through CCP's affiliate program and player's ISK donations. You're missing the point. It is classified as RMT because SOMER is exchanging an in-game service (PLEX buying) for an out-of-game payment (using their referral link). This means they're trading in-game services for real-world currency which is the definition of RMT. So does for example Dotlan ...it's an valuable in-game service financed also through a GTC/PLEX buying link. Although, as I stated earlier, this is a more indirect connection it still generates real money from an in-game service. To be clear, I'm not defending Somer/Markee, but I would consider it a challenge to formulate clear rules which do not harm all the other presumably non-profit services.
yes but dotlan does not give me isk for buying a plex through them.
Noone has a problem with 3rd party sites that serve the community earning some cash to help with server costs etc
what people are objecting to is that somer blink give isk as an inventive to use their plex buying service to generate real cash. Real Money Traded for isk |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2227
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Posted - 2014.08.19 11:40:00 -
[215] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:You're missing the point. It is classified as RMT because SOMER is exchanging an in-game service (PLEX buying) for an out-of-game payment (using their referral link). This means they're trading in-game services for real-world currency which is the definition of RMT. So does for example Dotlan ...it's an valuable in-game service financed also through a GTC/PLEX buying link. Although, as I stated earlier, this is a more indirect connection it still generates real money from an in-game service. To be clear, I'm not defending Somer/Markee, but I would consider it a challenge to formulate clear rules which do not harm all the other presumably non-profit services. Again, you're missing the point. None of the services Dotlan provides are in return for clicking their link. Those referral links are not the problem, giving people isk for using them is. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2672
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Posted - 2014.08.19 11:42:00 -
[216] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:So does for example Dotlan ...it's an valuable in-game service financed also through a GTC/PLEX buying link. Although, as I stated earlier, this is a more indirect connection it still generates real money from an in-game service.
Except buying PLEX from Dotlan doesn't give you any in-game item or currency if you choose to use their referral link. Yes, you can plan your travel more efficiently than you would just with use of in-game map but that's only because CCP prefers to have bunch of half-assed features in-game and let the 3rd parties implement better versions (vide Dotlan, various fitting tools, market analyzers, etc.).
Dotlan gets RL money for PLEX sales and probably quite nice amount of ISK donations in-game but one has nothing to do with the other. In case of SOMER's latest scheme buying PLEX with their referral link is connected to rewarding you for that with ISK. And it doesn't matter whether you take that offer or just sell PLEX on in-game market, the fact alone that SOMER makes that offer is proposition of participation in RMT. Which according to common knowledge is bannable offense to both sides of a deal. Invalid signature format |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10918
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Posted - 2014.08.19 11:49:00 -
[217] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:Equality? in Eve? are you real?
Server shut downs to save fleets? The Goon string puller mittani is making more RL cash from his website advertisements than I bet Somer ever could.
And yet people scream equality - are you awake? can you even smell those roses?
Even if Mittens was pulling millions from his website every year (he's not, and if he was, he wouldn't be paying hobbyist writers with ISK, but professional writers with RL $$) it wouldn't be a problem because there are no "pay RL money, get ISK from us in return" transactions involved. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
1
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:11:00 -
[218] - Quote
EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited." |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
583
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:17:00 -
[219] - Quote
Andski wrote:Dilligafmofo wrote:Equality? in Eve? are you real?
Server shut downs to save fleets? The Goon string puller mittani is making more RL cash from his website advertisements than I bet Somer ever could.
And yet people scream equality - are you awake? can you even smell those roses?
Even if Mittens was pulling millions from his website every year (he's not, and if he was, he wouldn't be paying hobbyist writers with ISK, but professional writers with RL $$) it wouldn't be a problem because there are no "pay RL money, get ISK from us in return" transactions involved.
It's off-topic, but why wouldn't he pay them with isk? It's cheaper and has less legal ramifications for him: Essentially they are doing the work voluntarily (from a legal perspective). The instant he pays RL cash he becomes an employer. |
Ali Aras
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
725
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:29:00 -
[220] - Quote
CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1410
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:29:00 -
[221] - Quote
Whatever comes of the investigation, I will be contented if there are no free ships involved in the outcome. Personnel Division Director - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse-á CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2672
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:32:00 -
[222] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
VP of Sales, well well... Thick plottens... Invalid signature format |
Chera Frane
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:35:00 -
[223] - Quote
Kename Fin wrote: The mob is restless.
I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink.
I certainly was unaware of all these goings on and I am, at least, someone who frequents these forums from time to time. In my opinion most of the players will be more interested in surviving and making ISK honestly to be bothered by what is, apparently, going on here.
I seems to me that the only people really involved are CCP, the CSM, Somerblink and those unfortunate to have been bitten by this apparent scam.
"Trust no-one." is rightly the watchword of EVE so the question is; why have so many fallen for such a notorious swindle? If it seems to be too good to be true, then it almost certainly will be in EVE at least. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4341
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:40:00 -
[224] - Quote
Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11143
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:42:00 -
[225] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. Brilliant post. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
607
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:43:00 -
[226] - Quote
111010110 wrote:EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
I keep eating my popcorn and waiting for somer and his in IN GAME organization to fall under this. Let's not forget Someset mah is a player who runs a web site that pools a lot of isk. He has a business agreement with Markee Dragon not CCP. Somer set mah is sitting on a mountain of isk and wants to make some direct real life money off his in game charcter.
Just like a bot farmer collecting isk and selling it. Somerset mah is looking for a way to do this with CCP approval even if it is for a short period of time. The business responsibility CCP has is with Markee dragon not somer. Somerset is a player and should be viewed as one period not a third party business partner. If it can be proved he is getting paid by Markee dragon to use his isk in game as a mean of running a business and a form of RMTing then he is subjected to player type punishment.
The VP who treated Somer like a business failed. If you like to have some fun and since she is so open to players contacting her, don't shoot the monument in jita, instead shoot her a email. Fill up her inbox ask her you can give away isk and get a real life money kick back.
Well the issue here is a failure to use the community department and CSM once again. Hey let's stop being a development arm of CCP and focus on getting CCP to add you to the loop of "have to talk to before approving in game programs". Then after it hits your desk it can go to legal. Falcon Iam not sure they pay you enough.
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Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
404
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:44:00 -
[227] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
thats like saying I know whats going on I got a Secret but i cant tell you :) |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
27
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:45:00 -
[228] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
Falcon is a dedicated guy.
So when will the results declared to public? |
Pitchfork Vendor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:45:00 -
[229] - Quote
111010110 wrote:EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited." ^ This. If you need to send an email to the sales dept. to get approval for your schemes, your account is no longer non profit.
Pitchforks! Pitchforks! Get your pitchforks here! |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
134
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:46:00 -
[230] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:CSM just had another meeting with CCP, including the VP of Sales. It's great that CCP has kept us so involved and are actively seeking the input of us and the community. Mad props to Leeloo and Falcon for their hard work.
Very interesting, i just hope it doesn't end with input seeking from CCP. From your wording and tone some can assume CCP finally takes it serious and there will be consequences.
Anyway as i said in my opinion CCP has no other choice to shut SOMER down, making this scheme legitimate for everybody will kill EVE within a month because there is too much ISK floating around. Chera Frane: Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink.
Abrazzar: It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. |
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KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
27
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:48:00 -
[231] - Quote
111010110 wrote:EULA Section "Your Account" Subsection "A. Establishing a New Account" Paragraph 4:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."
So TL;DR Somer and his co-operators have to be dealt with like all the other RMT'ers out there:
Permaban and taken out from all isk and assets.
There is no other option includes justice other than that. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10921
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:48:00 -
[232] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:It's off-topic, but why wouldn't he pay them with isk? It's cheaper and has less legal ramifications for him: Essentially they are doing the work voluntarily (from a legal perspective). The instant he pays RL cash he becomes an employer.
Again, this is if TMC was pulling ludicrous ad revenue, which it's not. If it was, he'd easily be able to pay a full-time staff writer or two and deal with the legal requirements involved. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10921
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:50:00 -
[233] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths.
just gonna drop that in my sig Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
134
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:55:00 -
[234] - Quote
Andski wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Chera Frane wrote:I think that you are wrong in this. Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink. It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. just gonna drop that in my sig
Yeah, same thought here .....
Chera Frane: Most of the player base probably don't give a damn about what is going on with CCP and Somerblink.
Abrazzar: It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths. |
KIllerJon
Snuff Box
7
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:55:00 -
[235] - Quote
Everyone wants a resolution ... Lots of people have ideas how it should be dealt with ... A player has made money through the player base using the structure of eve ... Ccp's Eula had an exploitable loophole ... Both should be addressed and rectified because it just shouldn't happen .... Personal opinion would be restrict markee+others to being purely ad based funding over time not per plex |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4248
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 12:57:00 -
[236] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths.
-slowclap-
This thread is done.
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Wex Manchester
Snuff Box
61
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Posted - 2014.08.19 13:08:00 -
[237] - Quote
Enough. Enough.
If RMT is an offense punishable by banning, and if this is RMT, then why is this still being discussed?
If it hasn't been done already, lock down the assets of the offenders, and get on with the bans. |
Talvorian Dex
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
13
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Posted - 2014.08.19 13:13:00 -
[238] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Out of curiosity.
After all, as the queen once said . . . `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
I am not apologizing for CCP, just reminding some that this is not an instantaneous kind of thing. But some of you want to skip sentence, verdict, and leap straight to the execution(s) so anything I say to delay that must be stonewalling and sucking up to my masters.
I just want to hear from the real people, the people who involved that to explain what really happened. From The decision makers. Not from the people that just learned this 24 hour ago. There are people out there really know whats happenning in CCP. I want them to go out public and explain to me that, why some pople are treated differently than the others in this game when it comes to EULA? As legally both me and somer are subcribers. So both are bound to the EULA rules.
Kara, the people who know all work for CCP, and no one at CCP is going to risk their jobs (as they would be doing by speaking out about internal CCP problems) to inform a player community about something. It's just not gonna happen. I certainly wouldn't.
Let's give CCP time to sort this out. I very much believe that this might be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
And, hey, if people still feel strongly, they could always stop Blinking. THat'd be a way to teach... oh, hey, promo blink!
. . . I bet a bunch of you just opened up Somer's site and checked, regardless of your indignation. Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1847
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Posted - 2014.08.19 13:19:00 -
[239] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote:I very much believe that this might be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. That usually means something's wrong with the head (the read-bearded fellow). Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Big Lynx
Destructive Mechanics Quam'Nocent
592
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:28:00 -
[240] - Quote
Somergate again. Somer did enough outside of the box for their own (rl) wallet, that system is based on (rl) capitalism. Their gambling system works like any other (rl) casino by exploiting poor gambling souls. Somer stepped out of the box cause he/they got greedy.
I am expecting a ban, because he is a player like all others who posted here and reading that thread without posting. Somer stumbled over his own greed. Now it's CCP's turn to act like they would with any other player doing RMT and Eve gets a better place (again).
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