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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2301
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Posted - 2014.08.21 06:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
Jenni LaCroix wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Everythgin you can buy with money or Time has a real life value. Is daydreaming anyone that believe otherwise. Please read before you reply, don't just read the title. If I lose a carrier that I paid nothing for, plus I chose to play out of my own free will (which most here do) so you cannot consider this a money/time investment, then why would I be losing money?
Whether you paid RL money for the carrier is irrelevant.
The bottom line is that since CCP gives us a legal means for converting RL money into in game isk, then isk gains an inherent value. As such I can accurately say that your carrier has a RL value of $XX. The carrier has that value IF you decided to plunk down RL money to gain the isk to purchase it.
Whether or not you chose to buy the carrier via that means has no bearing on its potential value due to the RL $$ to plex to isk conversion.
Of course it does not have any value in the reverse, as there is no legal means to convert it back into RL $$$. But it does not mean someone can truthfully state what it's value is in terms of the PLEX to RL $$ conversion rate.
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Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2580
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Posted - 2014.08.21 06:39:00 -
[62] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:There was also a case not too long ago of a group of kids who went to another kid's house, tied him to a chair in front of his computer, and at knife point forced him to log a World of Warcraft character and drop a weapon, so another kid could pick it up. That is... disturbing beyond words. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6384
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Posted - 2014.08.21 06:48:00 -
[63] - Quote
I thought WoW uses some "soundbound" mechanic or whatever it was.
So your officer sword can't be dropped. Unlike with officer-fitted ravens in highsec ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2505
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Posted - 2014.08.21 10:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:I thought WoW uses some "soundbound" mechanic or whatever it was.
So your officer sword can't be dropped. Unlike with officer-fitted ravens in highsec
^this.
Though that's only on "special" things, and not always "on pickup" ... or at least it was when I was too immature to grasp "Everyone vs. Everyone". One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1564
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Posted - 2014.08.21 10:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Well that seems to be one of the dumbest rulings I've heard of.
Shouldn't have even got to court, should have been sorted out by Runescape.
Depends entirely on the laws of the place. Where I live, If I work to achieve or get anything, be it virtual or real, its my property as long as I did not took it from the rights of another person or legal entity.
The concept is simple.. if the court decides that the strong part (the company) deceived or manipulated the weaker part.. legal actions can be enforced to reverse it. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
NateX
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
0
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Posted - 2014.08.21 10:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
It's pretty basic journalism. Like writing 1 out of 10 instead of 10%. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2500
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Posted - 2014.08.21 10:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
If I sell some of my isk to a person for real life money, then that isk has real money value. This is not a signature. |
Jenni LaCroix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:32:00 -
[68] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Jenni LaCroix wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Everythgin you can buy with money or Time has a real life value. Is daydreaming anyone that believe otherwise. Please read before you reply, don't just read the title. If I lose a carrier that I paid nothing for, plus I chose to play out of my own free will (which most here do) so you cannot consider this a money/time investment, then why would I be losing money? You paid for it.. be in money to buy plex be in time. Currency is just a conversion and value unit for your work time multiplied by your workvalue. The only real value is time spent, so yes anythign you got in eve has real life value. How much woudl you have earned on that time in real life? That is the cost of that carrier. and please use your brain before replying... Anyone that thinks that ANYTHING in this world is free.. is a fool. Everything has a cost... EVERYTHING
Actually, I am using my brain but I believe you simply are too ignorant to understand other people's opinions, thus that can be seen in your first reply where you basically state that all that don't think like you are daydreaming.
So right now, I am choosing out of my free time to write you a reply. It is done out of free will in my free time and to me this has absolutely no value. There is no codex of human behavior anywhere that states that each time I do something that it is out of my free will, that I must apply work time multiplied by my work value.
But I believe that people like you even think that each time they take a dump, that the turd is actually worth real life money, due to like you mentioned, taking a crap time (work) is multiplied by whatever you consider your work value is. Heh, I am sure the turds you drop that have the size of a banana must be worth gold to you. |
Jenni LaCroix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:Your confusion comes from your misunderstanding of what "real money" really is.
All value is virtual, regardless of weather it is affixed to a physical dollar, or virtual ISK. The same for any object (physical or virtual), the value fluctuates depending on demand and desire.
This makes all money virtual. Where the desire to want is real
Now Add time to that, which is fixed, but also is valued differently by different people. EVE takes time, which is more real than assessed value of money
TL:DR - Time is money. And what people want have real value.
Honestly, what I do not understand is why people do not get this.
I respect what you are saying but it is not fully true, I will try my best to explain why.
You mentioned all value is virtual, regardless of whether it is affixed to a physical dollar, or virtual ISK. Well, that is not really true. For example, depending on what country you are from, there are government departments that make lists through the use of statistics etc, let's use as an example the car industry, or rather, the used car industry. Each used car, has a value. It is yours, but each year, and with more mileages or KMs, the car loses value. Now, there is a reference value for your car that potential people that buy use cars, can orientate themselves with. Car insurance companies for example consult these type of value tables the most. So that is not true that all value is virtual, there are clear values to particular items BUT, one can say that something is always worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, so such a person for example could say the same as you as an excuse to buy the car for 3x more or less of a price.
Now, you mention Eve takes time, which is more real than assessed value of money. Again, are you playing eve to earn money to live? I play it out of my free will and I do not lose one cent of RL money. I also yet need to find a general rule book, where it states that every single thing I do during the day that is not considered earning money, is considered a loss.
So you are telling me, the time you sleep, etc, you are actually making a loss, that your sleep time is equivalent to real life money (whatever you consider your value per working hour is?)
Look, great answers from most people so far, and I am sure that many will be hooked and holding to all they got in terms of believing that PLEX has a real monetary value, but I am still trying to find more compelling evidence to if that is really true. Lot's of the things mentioned here I guess would make sense to people that see every minute they spend of the day, that it is a loss of money when it is not working related. |
Jenni LaCroix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:49:00 -
[70] - Quote
Atticus Aurilen wrote:Jenni LaCroix wrote:
Why do people believe ISK has a real life money value?
Because it does. People sell isk for $$$ all over the place and make real world profits. The goal is of course to eliminate all such profiteers but such a task is rather daunting since it is prohibited by terms of an agreement as apposed to laws of the land. It would(and i'm sure has) made for some excellent term papers. I'm actually amazed that CCP has even let this thread live as this topic here is more frowned upon than communism in national socialist Germany.
this is a good one. For people that deal with illegal ISK sales for real money, for them this would indeed be a whole other concept. |
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Jenni LaCroix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:If I sell some of my isk to a person for real life money, then that isk has real money value.
Now, if let's say CCP would allow that, then I am more likely to believe that ISK has a real life monetary value which will then be decided by the simple rules of supply and demand. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
186
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
as you can buy a PLEX and sell the PLEX for ISK, you factually can buy ISK for RL-money. et voil+á, a straight connection. Just because it's a one-way doesn't invalidate this one way. |
Ohforfsake Logan
PLANET PARADISE
0
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Posted - 2014.08.21 12:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
Jenni LaCroix wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:If I sell some of my isk to a person for real life money, then that isk has real money value. Now, if let's say CCP would allow that, then I am more likely to believe that ISK has a real life monetary value which will then be decided by the simple rules of supply and demand.
And because something is illegal/forbidden it has no value?
With that logic, drugs have no real life value, because it is forbidden selling them...
And yet, somehow, drug dealers manage to buy all kinds of nice things...
Go figure. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4259
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Posted - 2014.08.21 12:38:00 -
[74] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:There was also a case not too long ago of a group of kids who went to another kid's house, tied him to a chair in front of his computer, and at knife point forced him to log a World of Warcraft character and drop a weapon, so another kid could pick it up. That is... disturbing beyond words. This is where Eve is awesome. If I wanted purple loot, I would bring a few friends, web and point him, and ransom him. Or if I'm lucky, explode him and it drops. |
Solecist Project
Mew Age Outpaws
6958
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Posted - 2014.08.21 13:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:There was also a case not too long ago of a group of kids who went to another kid's house, tied him to a chair in front of his computer, and at knife point forced him to log a World of Warcraft character and drop a weapon, so another kid could pick it up. That is... disturbing beyond words. This is where Eve is awesome. If I wanted purple loot, I would bring a few friends, web and point him, and ransom him. Or if I'm lucky, explode him and it drops. You ruined your portrait.
If you wanna keep this, at least find lighting that makes it look less ******.
Thanks. http://residentoutlaw.tumblr.com - CODE, RvB, the AT, and what DJEntropy said .... :) The Mew Age Calender is in need of models! Plus payment! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4908292#post4908292 |
Grim Hood
Meatshield Bastards The Bastards.
98
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Posted - 2014.08.21 13:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
ISK is used to pay for EVE accounts. Hence, real life money value.
End of thread. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
778
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Posted - 2014.08.21 14:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
People believe ISK has a real life value because it makes this game more interesting... which it desperately needs. Not today spaghetti. |
Leonardo Zolo
Zolo In Utero
1
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Posted - 2014.08.21 14:15:00 -
[78] - Quote
Jenni, I haven't properly read the entire thread and I think some people may have already said this but to answer your questions:
1. Does ISK have a real-life value? Answer: Yes. 2. Can I convert ISK to real life cash in hand. Answer: Yes. 3. If you lose a carrier then are you losing real-life money? Answer: Possibly, yes (but only if my scenario below applies)
Okay, here's how:
Say I'm a CEO of an enormous corp that has trillions of ISK ( just say) and it is self-sustaining i.e. I do not have to inject any money into it. I am just reaping the ISK rewards of my miners, mission runners and renters via tax.
Now let's say you are in my corp. I find out that in real life you design websites so I make you a deal that if you give a certain amount of your time to me every 30 days then I will give you a PLEX every 30 days and pay for your game time. That PLEX is bought in Jita with ISK and paid for from the corp wallet, not bought using real-life money.
So then I advertise myself as a website designer and in real life someone asks me to make them a website. So I ask you to make me a website using the time you promised to me. You make a website, zip it up and send it to me. I put it up on the internet for my client to see. My client is overjoyed at YOUR work and pays ME a handful of notes.
I have just made real-life money from ISK that was made in-game.
As far as the carrier goes, if losing a carrier means that I cannot afford to give you next month's PLEX then I am losing your services for a month and so cannot make any real-life money from your skills so I am losing real-life income.
As for whether any of the above would be unethical / illegal / worth the effort / asking for a permaban, I don't know.
Time is money.
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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
3116
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Posted - 2014.08.21 14:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Jenni LaCroix wrote:Yarda Black wrote:There's a saying in business:
"Time is money" I disagree with this as I mentioned in my example relating to this topic. If you do something out of free will in your spare time, that has no monetary value. If I go to the cinema on my free time I can't say that I lost money because of it because I could not work for 4 hours for example. It was your choice and free will to go to the cinemas.
Yes it does, because that time could otherwise be spent making money, producing, selling... instead of spending money you previously acquired or stagnating (ie. sitting on your couch sleeping..) Time is a net gain or a net loss, monetarily speaking, depending on how you use it. Just because you do not value your time in that fashion does not negate that it has value.
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CCP Falcon
8359
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Posted - 2014.08.21 15:55:00 -
[80] - Quote
I pay for everything with ISK every day
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3 |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4105
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:00:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:[trlolololo] I pay for everything with ISK every day thers an rmt joke in there somewhere i just know it. =][= |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
217
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZQTNjaB.jpg[/img] I pay for everything with ISK every day
I thought those were coupons good for 1 beer only. ;) Senex Legio |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1503
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:05:00 -
[83] - Quote
Well if you're looking at it from a legit RMT perspective (ie, the RMT endorsed by CCP through which they profit), 1 PLEX = 800 million ISK at current market price. 1 PLEX = 20 USD, therefore 800 million ISK = 20 USD.
Let's say a Titan costs 100 billion. 100bil/800mil = 125. So that's 125 PLEX. 125*20 = 2,500 USD.
Epic Space Cat |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
840
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:09:00 -
[84] - Quote
There is an irl value on stuff, because some people want to put a value on stuff. Due to people paying money for game isk via RMT, that's how they get the values. If no one did RMT and we had no plex, then there would not be any.
But you can break it down easily, a plex nets you ~800m a plex is $20. So a titan, that is around 70b (give or take) = 88 plex's
70b/800 = 87.5
so 88 plex's at about $20 each $1750 for a titan. Cause you can go spend that at ccp games and buy a titan with 88 plex's In a room full of dumb blondes, EvE is the smart red head on the other side of the room.-á Lots of men like dumb blondes, and not everyone will like the smart red head, but she doesn;t need to change to be a dumb blonde.-á She is perfect how she is.-á Thats EvE vs other mmo's.-á You either like the red head, or you don't. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
396
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:35:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZQTNjaB.jpg[/img] I pay for everything with ISK every day
=˙Ä .
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1366
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
92% of world's currencies don't have physical representation. It's like there is only 8% difference between ISK and "real money". Since there is no actual guaranteed physical values behind "real currencies" their value is imaginable and they work only because people have faith in them - just like EVE players value ISK and "shibes" value dogecoins. |
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
82
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:06:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZQTNjaB.jpg[/img] I pay for everything with ISK every day You're cheating Falcon, you can post images but we cant .
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Carmen Electra
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1910
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Posted - 2014.08.21 18:24:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZQTNjaB.jpg[/img] I pay for everything with ISK every day Burn eve is dying |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20300
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Posted - 2014.08.21 18:31:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:DevHax I pay for everything with ISK every day
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
716
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Posted - 2014.08.21 18:59:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZQTNjaB.jpg[/img] I pay for everything with ISK every day yeah but the global financial system doesn't consider that real currency either :v: |
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