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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:34:00 -
[691] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:Tippia wrote:crimsonshank wrote:No I don't support goon lovers Ok. So can I have your stuff, since you're going to quit (voluntarily or with GM assistance)? Rroff wrote:Actually break it down and its merely an artificial separation to convolute what is essentially an analogue of the same mechanic if looked at in its most basic form No. If you break it down, you notice that there is a hard separation between two unlreated transactions and that there is nothing analogous to the Somer case other than that ISK and cash are involved in both cases. By that logic, having lunch is an analogue: you pay cash to the restaurant/shop for food, and later the same day, not being passed out from hunger, you acquire some ISK. Again, the fundamental difference with ad-supported community sites is this: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Otherwise, living should be considered RMT since everyone playing EVE receives cash and hands out ISK. That said let me pass something by you. Say I am sitting on a stock pile of a trillion ISK and I want to "cash out" using the mechanic of a third party website could I not do the following? Create a website that is run by user generated content. Advertise in game that I will pay users 1 million ISK each time they add EVE related content to my website. They would then have to go to my website sit through ads, create EVE related content and submit it to me. I also advertise this site to the EVE community as a sort of crazy non-sense site with only eve related stuff, drawing, articles, etc. When users come to see the UGC(user generated content) I serve them ads. I am paid by my advertising and sponsorship partners for the traffic generated by me paying ISK for this to start. Lets recap essentially what has happened. I have traded my in game asset of ISK for content on my website, which in turn generates traffic to my website, which in turn gives me real life money. Would you consider that an appropriate use case? If you'd pay people with isk to click on your ads you're basically committing a fraud but not against CCP but against the company whose ads you're selling assuming those people wouldn't touch your ads with a ten feet pole without you giving them isk first or the ad company might not give a rats ass and is just happy raking in the cash from those clicks you just made for them.
I am aware of the limitation of not being allowed to pay for clicks. I am not doing that I am paying for content and while they are there they get ads whether they interact with them is their choice. No different than Facebook or any other site that uses advertising. |
Garai Nolen
Xyjax
22
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:37:00 -
[692] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Tippia wrote:Then you'd be paying them for a non-EVE-related service, which would be a no-no. Probably wasn't clear but I meant adding in some token incidental eve stuff just to fluff out the link maybe get them to jump through a couple of minor "eve related" content loops.
But why would anyone click your referral link then? If you pay me ISK to spam your website in chat, sure, I'll take your ISK. And then I still won't click on your referral link. And neither will anyone who sees the spam, because they get literally nothing out of doing so. It's a lot easier just to go buy a PLEX from CCP or a time code from a site I actually want to support.
So yeah, sure, you could probably do it and it probably would not count as RMT. Essentially you would be the world's first "ISK for EVE chat spam" service. You'd basically just be paying people ISK to spam chat with a link to your site but not actually providing anyone any reason to go to your website or click on your referral link (because you can't, and the moment you do with in-game ISK/items, yes, it becomes RMT). EVEoj - EVE Online JavaScript library: http://eve-oj.xyjax.com/ |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
730
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:42:00 -
[693] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doesn't look like it, no. You might have gotten lucky with the ad and seen one that is sold through the same network.
Its doing it for me on 2 different PCs - clicking the PLEX link automatically activates a click through response on the right hand page ad at the same time which is kind of sneaky.
Garai Nolen wrote: But why would anyone click your referral link then? If you pay me ISK to spam your website in chat, sure, I'll take your ISK. And then I still won't click on your referral link. And neither will anyone who sees the spam, because they get literally nothing out of doing so. It's a lot easier just to go buy a PLEX from CCP or a time code from a site I actually want to support.
So yeah, sure, you could probably do it and it probably would not count as RMT. Essentially you would be the world's first "ISK for EVE chat spam" service. You'd basically just be paying people ISK to spam chat with a link to your site but not actually providing anyone any reason to go to your website or click on your referral link (because you can't, and the moment you do with in-game ISK/items, yes, it becomes RMT).
Soon enough people will work out though that they can buy their game time that way and get free ISK without me actually invoking the afore mentioned quid-pro-quo arrangement myself and when your talking real money like that the ISK outlay to make it work can be made to work via various farming mechanisms. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24014
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:43:00 -
[694] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:I am unsure how me using ISK in exchange for web traffic which gets me money isn't relevant. It's not relevant because the ISK isn't what creates the cash earnings. You are not spending ISK to receive cash.
One more time: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement.
Quote:My point is, if I made such a site and cut out the I give you ISK side the chances of it growing quickly and me getting significant advertising revenue is small. GǪand the counter-point is that you're not cashing out. You are earning money from ad revenue. You'd be doing that without the ISK. You could earn the same amount of cash without spending a single ISK in the process.
Quote:I am not saying that is what other third parties are doing I am saying that my plan is something as far as I can tell is perfectly within the EULA but I hardly think its fair and could in theory be done. Not quite. Your plan is explicitly to cash out GÇö to trade your ISK for cash. This isn't allowed. That's why none of the sites are doing that. Instead, they have two completely separate transactions going on at once: one is out-of-game cash for out-of-game services, the other is in-game cash for game-related community services. The two are not coupled or connected. They could stop doing one and the other would keep going because they are not reliant on each other. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:51:00 -
[695] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:I am unsure how me using ISK in exchange for web traffic which gets me money isn't relevant. It's not relevant because the ISK isn't what creates the cash earnings. You are not spending ISK to receive cash. One more time: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Quote:My point is, if I made such a site and cut out the I give you ISK side the chances of it growing quickly and me getting significant advertising revenue is small. GǪand the counter-point is that you're not cashing out. You are earning money from ad revenue. You'd be doing that without the ISK. You could earn the same amount of cash without spending a single ISK in the process. Quote:I am not saying that is what other third parties are doing I am saying that my plan is something as far as I can tell is perfectly within the EULA but I hardly think its fair and could in theory be done. Not quite. Your plan is explicitly to cash out GÇö to trade your ISK for cash. This isn't allowed. That's why none of the sites are doing that. Instead, they have two completely separate transactions going on at once: one is out-of-game cash for out-of-game services, the other is in-game cash for game-related community services. The two are not coupled or connected. They could stop doing one and the other would keep going because they are not reliant on each other.
I perfectly understand that ISK isn't whats causing the cash earning. What's causing the cash earnings is the traffic to the site. Without traffic no cash.
I mentioned "Cash out" to get my point across. Nobody can tell what an intention of a third party site is unless the creator specifically says so. Anyone could say its for the community and their love of it, and on that basis the plan is completely valid.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:52:00 -
[696] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:Lets recap essentially what has happened. I have traded my in game asset of ISK for content on my website, which in turn generates traffic to my website, which in turn gives me real life money. If you can't see the difference between this and RMT, there's probably no point engaging you in a conversation about it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24015
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 21:58:00 -
[697] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:I perfectly understand that ISK isn't whats causing the cash earning. GǪthus, no RMT, and thus, the ISK isn't actually relevant. The ad network pays for you click-throughs, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any ISK you might have. You are paying ISK to you contributors, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any click-through deal you might have. The only reason you're paying anything is because you can't be arsed to populate your site by yourself.
Quote:I mentioned "Cash out" to get my point across. The problem is that mentioning it only muddies any point you might have. It implies a connection between the ISK and the cash, when in reality, the connection is between the ISK and your lack of personal effort. If you just wanted to earn some cash, you could do that without the ISK. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:07:00 -
[698] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:I perfectly understand that ISK isn't whats causing the cash earning. GǪthus, no RMT, and thus, the ISK isn't actually relevant. The ad network pays for you click-throughs, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any ISK you might have. You are paying ISK to you contributors, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any click-through deal you might have. The only reason you're paying anything is because you can't be arsed to populate your site by yourself. Quote:I mentioned "Cash out" to get my point across. The problem is that mentioning it only muddies any point you might have. It implies a connection between the ISK and the cash, when in reality, the connection is between the ISK and your lack of personal effort. If you just wanted to earn some cash, you could do that without the ISK.
I get what you are saying now.
What I am doing is paying for advertising etc. So instead of using my real life cash to pay google ad words, facebook, etc to generate traffic to my site. I can use the ISK I have in game to get the same effect. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:26:00 -
[699] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:I get what you are saying now.
What I am doing is paying for advertising etc. So instead of using my real life cash to pay google ad words, facebook, etc to generate traffic to my site. I can use the ISK I have in game to get the same effect. So paying ISK for in game players to write an article about their in game goings on automatically generates traffic. Good to know.
Still doesn't really connect those two transactions though, does it? Can you honestly not see the difference between ad revenue and selling isk for cash? I mean really? Or is this just an elaborate trolling? I honestly can't understand how someone that can formulate complete sentences can't see the distinction between the two. I also can't understand why someone would go on an on about it, since it's NEVER going to change. CCP aren't going to ban all third party sites from generating revenue to keep them up. Goodbye eve-radio, killboards, dotlan, etc. They are however going to stop people directly selling isk to players for real cash, as well they should. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:32:00 -
[700] - Quote
Damn double forum post |
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Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:34:00 -
[701] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:I get what you are saying now.
What I am doing is paying for advertising etc. So instead of using my real life cash to pay google ad words, facebook, etc to generate traffic to my site. I can use the ISK I have in game to get the same effect. So paying ISK for in game players to write an article about their in game goings on automatically generates traffic. Good to know. Still doesn't really connect those two transactions though, does it? Can you honestly not see the difference between ad revenue and selling isk for cash? I mean really? Or is this just an elaborate trolling? I honestly can't understand how someone that can formulate complete sentences can't see the distinction between the two. I also can't understand why someone would go on an on about it, since it's NEVER going to change. CCP aren't going to ban all third party sites from generating revenue to keep them up. Goodbye eve-radio, killboards, dotlan, etc. They are however going to stop people directly selling isk to players for real cash, as well they should.
Lucas I am not quite sure what you are on about.
I never called for a ban of sites from generating revenue.
I did however suggest that if content is going to be monetized that said content is not paid for using ISK.
I then gave my hypothetical website of why that would be wise.
I am not quite sure where you got lost. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 22:41:00 -
[702] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:Lucas I am not quite sure what you are on about.
I never called for a ban of sites from generating revenue.
I did however suggest that if content is going to be monetized that said content is not paid for using ISK.
I then gave my hypothetical website of why that would be wise.
I am not quite sure where you got lost. Lol, you never called for it, but you made it quite clear that you consider someone paying isk and having a website that makes money being RMT, even though the transactions are unconnected. And by all means go and make your hypothetical website. Pay people to write content and slap some ads on the site. Good luck with that one.
At the end of the day you are making unreasonable connections where none exist. The only way for sites that generate revenue to be totally unconnected to the spending of isk would be to never post anything about EVE, since pretty much any content that gets written about costs isk at some point to happen. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Felicia Tennyson
Tennyson Court
6
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:00:00 -
[703] - Quote
it's hilarious but how sad that people are so eager to demonstrate the "Fifty Shades of Dumb" already...
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Mark Munoz
ProxyBuilders Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:01:00 -
[704] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:Lucas I am not quite sure what you are on about.
I never called for a ban of sites from generating revenue.
I did however suggest that if content is going to be monetized that said content is not paid for using ISK.
I then gave my hypothetical website of why that would be wise.
I am not quite sure where you got lost. Lol, you never called for it, but you made it quite clear that you consider someone paying isk and having a website that makes money being RMT, even though the transactions are unconnected. And by all means go and make your hypothetical website. Pay people to write content and slap some ads on the site. Good luck with that one. At the end of the day you are making unreasonable connections where none exist. The only way for sites that generate revenue to be totally unconnected to the spending of isk would be to never post anything about EVE, since pretty much any content that gets written about costs isk at some point to happen.
You are right and then I said that I see the point Tippia and others where making and that I was wrong to connect it to RMT as it isn't.
I think you are also going out our way to make unreasonable connections with regards to the costs of content. Sure it cost somebody something in game for that content but what they spent doing that wasn't anything above and beyond the normal course of the game.
If we are talking about live streamers they didn't pay for content unless they went and actually paid somebody to fight them. If a story was being written about an event it won't matter because that story wasn't the content it is just a retelling of the event, the writer is the entertainment.
I am here just having a conversation and at the same time trying to make it clear that third parties don't have to pay for content with ISK, and I feel that they probably shouldn't be allowed to. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4152
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:09:00 -
[705] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:You are right and then I said that I see the point Tippia and others where making and that I was wrong to connect it to RMT as it isn't.
I think you are also going out our way to make unreasonable connections with regards to the costs of content. Sure it cost somebody something in game for that content but what they spent doing that wasn't anything above and beyond the normal course of the game.
If we are talking about live streamers they didn't pay for content unless they went and actually paid somebody to fight them. If a story was being written about an event it won't matter because that story wasn't the content it is just a retelling of the event, the writer is the entertainment.
I am here just having a conversation and at the same time trying to make it clear that third parties don't have to pay for content with ISK, and I feel that they probably shouldn't be allowed to. Third parties do pay with isk. They own whole accounts which they wouldn't pay the isk to buy the plex to keep them running, just to generate content. Mad ani ran alt accounts to have something to stream for example.
What you are doing is going on about something which has absolutely no bearing on anything. It's not something that's going to change, and it's not something that causes any problems, and it's something that CCP have explicitly accepted. You think it can be exploited by people making websites to do so? Prove it. Until you do, your whining on about it is irrelevant.
And with that, I'm done discussing it. It's a pointless and off-topic discussion which is going to get nowhere (that is if this is indeed a discussion rather than an elaborate troll which I wouldn't be surprised about). The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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crimsonshank
Percussus Resurgo.
15
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:09:00 -
[706] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:Tippia wrote:crimsonshank wrote:No I don't support goon lovers Ok. So can I have your stuff, since you're going to quit (voluntarily or with GM assistance)? Rroff wrote:Actually break it down and its merely an artificial separation to convolute what is essentially an analogue of the same mechanic if looked at in its most basic form No. If you break it down, you notice that there is a hard separation between two unlreated transactions and that there is nothing analogous to the Somer case other than that ISK and cash are involved in both cases. By that logic, having lunch is an analogue: you pay cash to the restaurant/shop for food, and later the same day, not being passed out from hunger, you acquire some ISK. Again, the fundamental difference with ad-supported community sites is this: those who get ISK aren't providing any cash in exchange. Those who provide cash aren't getting any ISK in exchange. At no point is in-game and out-of-game assets exchanged for each other. Even if the same part hands out ISK and receives cash, it's not RMT unless the two transactions are related in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. Otherwise, living should be considered RMT since everyone playing EVE receives cash and hands out ISK. That said let me pass something by you. Say I am sitting on a stock pile of a trillion ISK and I want to "cash out" using the mechanic of a third party website could I not do the following? Create a website that is run by user generated content. Advertise in game that I will pay users 1 million ISK each time they add EVE related content to my website. They would then have to go to my website sit through ads, create EVE related content and submit it to me. I also advertise this site to the EVE community as a sort of crazy non-sense site with only eve related stuff, drawing, articles, etc. When users come to see the UGC(user generated content) I serve them ads. I am paid by my advertising and sponsorship partners for the traffic generated by me paying ISK for this to start. Lets recap essentially what has happened. I have traded my in game asset of ISK for content on my website, which in turn generates traffic to my website, which in turn gives me real life money. Would you consider that an appropriate use case?
This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11099
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:19:00 -
[707] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
and it's allowed so stay mad Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
225
|
Posted - 2014.08.21 23:37:00 -
[708] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote: This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
I'm glad you're still so worked up and throwing ad hominem at people explaining to you how it's permitted per CCP's policies and how paying for EVE articles in ISK, and non-EVE articles in a different manner doesn't make it RMT. Let alone Mark admitting his point asserting that it was RMT is actually incorrect at a later point. It's not really that hard to comprehend, please don't be so quick to insult people because you're being proven wrong time and time again. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1060
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:01:00 -
[709] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
Are there more than 50 shades of dumb?
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
45thtiger 0109
89
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:01:00 -
[710] - Quote
Edward Harris wrote:Sion Kumitomo wrote:In the handbook of GÇ£How Not to Get Permabanned,GÇ¥ not publishing private communications between you and the VP of global sales is on page one. Classic novice mistake. So Mr. Goon-CSM, just out of curiosity, how would you have reacted if your account got suspended and everything was shut down without any notification? I see it as an act of desperation, since they apparently had an OK from a VP position. I suppose that word means nothing. Btw, if you want to be official about it - do you see any disclaimer in those statements? I know we use them in our company. This is still a fault of CCPs lack of internal communication and you are taking it out on a player. Good job. My trust in CCP has dropped to zero and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this is an outrage.
Agreed with the above quote. |
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5920
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:13:00 -
[711] - Quote
crimsonshank wrote:This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
Get mad. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2862
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:32:00 -
[712] - Quote
Garai Nolen wrote:Rroff wrote:Tippia wrote:Then you'd be paying them for a non-EVE-related service, which would be a no-no. Probably wasn't clear but I meant adding in some token incidental eve stuff just to fluff out the link maybe get them to jump through a couple of minor "eve related" content loops. But why would anyone click your referral link then? If you pay me ISK to spam your website in chat, sure, I'll take your ISK. And then I still won't click on your referral link. And neither will anyone who sees the spam, because they get literally nothing out of doing so. It's a lot easier just to go buy a PLEX from CCP or a time code from a site I actually want to support. So yeah, sure, you could probably do it and it probably would not count as RMT. Essentially you would be the world's first "ISK for EVE chat spam" service. You'd basically just be paying people ISK to spam chat with a link to your site but not actually providing anyone any reason to go to your website or click on your referral link (because you can't, and the moment you do with in-game ISK/items, yes, it becomes RMT). I'm not quite sure you could consider paying people isk to spam advertisements for your website as not RMT. You would essentially be paying in-game currency for something that is an out-of-game benefit. Besides which, I'm pretty sure there's a clause about spamming ads in-game in the ToS or EULA somewhere. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2862
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:38:00 -
[713] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:I perfectly understand that ISK isn't whats causing the cash earning. GǪthus, no RMT, and thus, the ISK isn't actually relevant. The ad network pays for you click-throughs, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any ISK you might have. You are paying ISK to you contributors, which is a transaction that is wholly separate from any click-through deal you might have. The only reason you're paying anything is because you can't be arsed to populate your site by yourself. Quote:I mentioned "Cash out" to get my point across. The problem is that mentioning it only muddies any point you might have. It implies a connection between the ISK and the cash, when in reality, the connection is between the ISK and your lack of personal effort. If you just wanted to earn some cash, you could do that without the ISK. I'm not so sure you're not missing the point yourself here, although I understand you do get it. The isk is being used to generate content on an external site which would be a case of RMT. The only reason it isn't considered to be RMT is because CCP has explicitly stated that it is allowed to pay isk for this kind of content, as well as the other stuff like graphic design and such. |
Dany Targaryen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:46:00 -
[714] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:180,000+ members? At $10 a pop?
Good Christ in heaven! Why wasn't it me that thought up that site? You're forgetting unban/double account payments, platinum upgrades, avatar upgrades, avatar defacements, archive upgrades, ad-free upgradesGǪ
Over the past 10 years I've spent somewhere over $100 on SA, don't regret a cent. I only joined GSF about 2 years ago, so clearly I joined SA just to play Eve. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
523
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:47:00 -
[715] - Quote
Any site that sells PLEX or time codes is involved in RMT of a type that is allowed and governed by CCP. Sites that pay isk or request isk for certain services are also engaged in something that is close to RMT but that also is allowed and governed by CCP. I say it's close to RMT because CCP has stepped in to set rules for how this kind of transaction can be properly done. CCP has the right to allow players to do these kinds of transactions. Why fight about calling them RMT when the point is that this is CCP's product and CCP can govern how RMT and related types of income are handled. None of these third party sites are doing anything wrong. You can have the opinion that it's wrong if you want but why would you bother when your opinion means nothing unless you are in charge of the game? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24017
|
Posted - 2014.08.22 00:52:00 -
[716] - Quote
Rhes wrote:crimsonshank wrote:This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be. Are there more than 50 shades of dumb? Yes, lots more. There's ultradumb and infradumb, normally only observed by bees and snakes. Then there's x-dumb and high-dumb, which generally requires lab equipment to detect and which can cause genetic alterations and cell damage if you're exposed to enough of it.
Derrick Miles wrote:The isk is being used to generate content on an external site which would be a case of RMT. The only reason it isn't considered to be RMT is because CCP has explicitly stated that it is allowed to pay isk for this kind of content, as well as the other stuff like graphic design and such. Thus: not RMT, no matter how angry it makes Mr. Pink Poker above. After all, no in-game-to-out-of-game transaction takes place. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24017
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Posted - 2014.08.22 00:55:00 -
[717] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Any site that sells PLEX or time codes is involved in RMT No. None of them are because none of them are trading in any kind of in-game asset. In fact, if you come across one that does, you could probably make a killing with the PLEXes for Snitches program. They sell you codes in exchange for cash. The cash exists outside the game as do the codes. CCP gives you a 30-day call option (aka PLEX) if you demonstrate the ownership of one of these codes, but the resellers never deal with anything that exists in-game.
Quote:Sites that pay isk or request isk for certain services are also engaged in something that is close to RMT but that also is allowed and governed by CCP. It also does not involve any real money. So there's thatGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Slicr
17
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Posted - 2014.08.22 01:03:00 -
[718] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Slicr wrote:Can you please explain more by what you mean by this comparison? He means that a call option for 30 days of subscription time (which is what a PLEX actually is), paid for using real cash, is a different kettle of fish compared to in-game assets such as ISK and ships. One shows up in the accountants' spread sheets as liabilities, so there's a good reason to get those off the books GÇö if it also happens to moderate a particularly crazy part of the in-game economy, then that's a neat side-effect. Quote:Plex can be bought with in-game isk or out of game real money. If Plex is bought in-game, then it has been paid for down the line with real money at some point. All in game items (rare ships for example) can be bought with isk, Plex, and/or other in-game items or any combination of the 3 methods. Another method of course is free.
So in essence, real money has the ability to purchase anything in the game. No. In essence, real money has the ability to purchase a PLEX, period (well, unless you want to break the EULA and get banned, that is), and you can only do that trade with CCP. If you have a PLEX, you can trade it against other in-game assets, most notably ISK. But you can't skip that crucial step without risking your account GÇö going directly from cash to any other in-game assets (or going from cash to PLEX without going through CCP) is strictly prohibited.
Thanks for your 2 cents but I was asking Falcon his reasoning.
As far as what you have written -- you can try and spin anyway you want the simply fact is: Plex is bought with real money and is used in the game. Therefore, anything associated with Plex is also associated with real money.
You have a better chance arguing about minerals not being free then you do with this one - also could argue that your stand on these 2 topics are opposite from each other. I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.
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Cherry Yeyo
69
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Posted - 2014.08.22 01:06:00 -
[719] - Quote
I think its safe to sew this one up and lock it. Everyone has had their say and now its just: grr martini dot com CCP Rise>Sentry drones have enormous downsides |
Timber Lynn
Adult Beverages Deep Space Engineering
0
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Posted - 2014.08.22 01:12:00 -
[720] - Quote
Remove |
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