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Tweek Etimua
The Paragons
73
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Posted - 2014.08.21 02:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
I understand that eve is unique in that, it allows you to commit crimes with limited reaction from game design. And in alot of cases from developers. But the only benifit for people who want to not only obey the law, but possibly enforce it is that concord doesnt shoot you.
Is this even a thing that could or should be looked into? If so what could be done to give law enforcers content and rewards. |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech Masters of Flying Objects
165
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Posted - 2014.08.21 02:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Such would be a nicely developed and thought out bounty hunting system.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5947
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Posted - 2014.08.21 03:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sometimes people must do bad things in the name of good.
Seriously though... what defines a "bad guy" or a "good guy?"
Someone who suicide ganks could be a hero for the industrialists that make a profit from it (because they remove competition). Someone who comes to a besieged newbie's aid could be doing the "wrong thing" because said newbie just screwed over a corp he/she didn't like. A PvPer could be doing the right thing by dishonorably nuking a person who mouths off all the time in shiny equipment.
Bad and good are relative here.
Also... you can shoot at anyone who has low security status (less than -5.0). The trick is to kill them before they can do anything. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Mag's
the united
17761
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Posted - 2014.08.21 06:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Sometimes people must do bad things in the name of good.
Seriously though... what defines a "bad guy" or a "good guy?"
Someone who suicide ganks could be a hero for the industrialists that make a profit from it (because they remove competition). Someone who comes to a besieged newbie's aid could be doing the "wrong thing" because said newbie just screwed over a corp he/she didn't like. A PvPer could be doing the right thing by dishonorably nuking a person who mouths off all the time in shiny equipment.
Bad and good are relative here.
Also... you can shoot at anyone who has low security status (less than -5.0). The trick is to kill them before they can do anything. This.
Plus after playing for over ten years, I've found many "good guys" are nothing of the sort.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4090
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Posted - 2014.08.21 08:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mag's wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Sometimes people must do bad things in the name of good.
Seriously though... what defines a "bad guy" or a "good guy?"
Someone who suicide ganks could be a hero for the industrialists that make a profit from it (because they remove competition). Someone who comes to a besieged newbie's aid could be doing the "wrong thing" because said newbie just screwed over a corp he/she didn't like. A PvPer could be doing the right thing by dishonorably nuking a person who mouths off all the time in shiny equipment.
Bad and good are relative here.
Also... you can shoot at anyone who has low security status (less than -5.0). The trick is to kill them before they can do anything. This. Plus after playing for over ten years, I've found many "good guys" are nothing of the sort. i have actually started killing my fellow capsuliers largely to dissociate myself with the "guud guys". since then i have made friends (recruited 2 of my "victims" who were stuck in npc corps) and generally enjoyed eve a lot more. =][= |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
331
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Posted - 2014.08.21 10:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
And good is the standard/default, there is no being "goodder". Only worse and that's what we call bad.
Good = no reward, not special Bad = punished, restrictions (maybe not always impact as such).
No need for 'Hero' recognition, if you wanna enforce, go enforce. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Felix Judge
Gallente Volunteer Defense Forces Spaceship Samurai
4
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Posted - 2014.08.21 10:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Such would be a nicely developed and thought out bounty hunting system. And what is wrong with the current one? I think that Retribution fixed it and am genuinely curious. So pray tell where its faults are (and please not only by saying it is broken and can be gamed - if so, please say how). |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2470
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Do you know who the "good guys" in EVE are? Can you even tell me that?
Answer that question first and then we can talk. |
Felix Judge
Gallente Volunteer Defense Forces Spaceship Samurai
4
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Do you know who the "good guys" in EVE are? Can you even tell me that?
Answer that question first and then we can talk. From a game perspective: the ones who don't do what Concord shoots you for or gives you a criminal flag for or lowers your security rating for or allows others to activate a killright on you for.
From a social perspective: those who do not harm others (unless consensually, but then it is no "harming"). (And yes I know the saying "you consent to PvP when you undock". But in highsec, that is not true.) |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
333
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Can't find the 'dislike' button for the last part of the above comment (guessing the rest to be irony). Anyone help ?! Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2505
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Do you know who the "good guys" in EVE are? Can you even tell me that?
Answer that question first and then we can talk.
cat $HOME/EVE/GoodGuys.txt Chribba [EOF]
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
828
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Sometimes people must do bad things in the name of good.
Seriously though... what defines a "bad guy" or a "good guy?"
Someone who suicide ganks could be a hero for the industrialists that make a profit from it (because they remove competition). Someone who comes to a besieged newbie's aid could be doing the "wrong thing" because said newbie just screwed over a corp he/she didn't like. A PvPer could be doing the right thing by dishonorably nuking a person who mouths off all the time in shiny equipment.
Bad and good are relative here.
Also... you can shoot at anyone who has low security status (less than -5.0). The trick is to kill them before they can do anything.
Please don't introduce advanced concepts such as "moral ambiguity" to carebears. You literally may end up shutting down entire strategic reserves of tears by going down this road. |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
828
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Felix Judge wrote: From a social perspective: those who do not harm others (unless consensually, but then it is no "harming"). (And yes I know the saying "you consent to PvP when you undock". But in highsec, that is not true.)
Confirming the EVE client totally respects and uses this same rule set and game mechanic, even in high-sec! |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2505
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Posted - 2014.08.21 11:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Felix Judge wrote: (And yes I know the saying "you consent to PvP when you undock". But in highsec, that is not true.)
You must be new here.
PvP = "Player vs. Player" interactions. It does not simply mean "combat" (although, the overwhelming majority of "bads*" seem to feel that "PvP" only entails combat).
You can still PvP whilst docked (Market), or while not even logged into the client (forums, gathering intel, etc.).
*Bads as in "Bad at EVE", not "Bad Guys" (i.e. 'antagonists' to the "Good Guy" protagonists). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2861
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Posted - 2014.08.21 12:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Felix Judge wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Do you know who the "good guys" in EVE are? Can you even tell me that?
Answer that question first and then we can talk. From a game perspective: the ones who don't do what Concord shoots you for or gives you a criminal flag for or lowers your security rating for or allows others to activate a killright on you for. From a social perspective: those who do not harm others (unless consensually, but then it is no "harming"). (And yes I know the saying "you consent to PvP when you undock". But in highsec, that is not true.)
You heard it here first folks.
Bumping, awoxing, corp theft, can flipping, loot theft, scamming, wardeccing, and both wormhole and nullsec PVP are the ways to make yourself a good guy. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4100
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Posted - 2014.08.21 12:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Do you know who the "good guys" in EVE are? Can you even tell me that?
Answer that question first and then we can talk. From my experience, the ones that get called sociopaths by the bears =][= |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4362
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Posted - 2014.08.21 13:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Do you know who the "good guys" in EVE are? Can you even tell me that?
Answer that question first and then we can talk. From my experience, the ones that get called sociopaths by the bears The players that blow the stuffing out of your ship, then turn around and help you get back on your feet ASAP so they can do it again, even giving help so it is an interesting fight for you.
The good guys help you enjoy the game more. How they do it is meaningless, as long as the result of game enjoyment is nailed. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Felix Judge
Gallente Volunteer Defense Forces Spaceship Samurai
4
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Posted - 2014.08.21 15:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:[...] You heard it here first folks.
Bumping, awoxing, corp theft, can flipping, loot theft, scamming, wardeccing, Toch+¬! :)
Danika Princip wrote:and both wormhole and nullsec PVP are the ways to make yourself a good guy. Consensual. On merit of entering those areas. |
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
16
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Felix Judge wrote:(And yes I know the saying "you consent to PvP when you undock". But in highsec, that is not true.) That's still true in high-sec. If it weren't, you wouldn't be able to damage people in high-sec.
It's a different kind of PvP from low-sec and null-sec, but there's PvP there. |
Arden Elenduil
Scary Devil Monastery
125
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
All areas of Eve Online are PvP areas, highsec is no exception to this. The only difference is that the Rules of Engagement are slightly different and more restricting than in low/null/w-space. Just wanted to clear that up.
That said, what Nikk Narrel said is very much true. Those people that can help you enjoy the game, no matter in what way, are good guys. Those that explain the game to you, help you (even blowing someone up is helping, because you can teach him a lesson on what not to do next time), those that generate content and make things interesting. Those are the good guys.
I myself am a highsec pirate of some notoriety, and I've often found that most of the highsec "griefers" are actually incredibly nice people, more than willing to help their colleagues and any new players that are interested in a playstyle on the "darker" side of Eve. Most are polite and will provide able and useful assistance.
A lot of carebears on the other hand (do keep in mind that I do not mean all carebears with this, there are quite a few good guys amongst them) tend to react violently when another player breaches the confines of their "bubble" in the game. They can be extremely hostile, change their opinions of you in a flash and spout the worst possible insults you can imagine for even the slightest of slights. Furthermore, their advice (if you get any) is usually rooted in a single aspect of the game, which they do, e.g. mining, missions, nullsec ratting, etc... It also usually involves playing solo.
Someone like myself on the other hand will always ask "what do you want to do in this game?" as the first question and will continue on from there.
Now, I realize that I'm biased and I'm very sure that there are a lot of good guys around in Eve. But I would also like to point out that just because a player in the game is called a "griefer" by some, that doesn't mean that he or she can't be a good, friendly and all around nice person.
Now, back to the original topic. The players themselves already have plenty of tools to combat those that go suspect or criminal in highsec. Nothing is stopping you from going out and hunting them down, you can even declare war on them if you want to, just like they do.
Nothing is stopping you from using locator agents to find their position, and even more, once you find them and they're suspect/criminal, you can just shoot them at will (I am not liable to any damages caused to your ship by following this advice).
In fact, the gankers, suspect baiters and so on don't even have any real advantages compared to you, they even have a disadvantage, since you can shoot them at a moment of your choosing if you encounter them, while they can't do anything to you until you decide to engage. You decide the setting of the engagement and you may even be joined by third parties.
The only "advantage" that gankers have, is that there is a much larger population of potential targets around, which is the only reason why they kill so many things.
You have the tools at your disposal, please use them. |
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DrysonBennington
Aliastra Gallente Federation
168
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Posted - 2014.08.21 23:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Do you know who the "good guys" in EVE are? Can you even tell me that?
Answer that question first and then we can talk.
Follow the High Protectorate around sometime when we battle CODE. We do what we can to save the ships being attacked by CODE. regardless of who the ships belong too.
We don't ask for rewards just that more pilots join us in keeping CODE. from ganking and taking ISK and real money out of the pockets of the Capsuleer's so that CODE. will be thought of as hero's by CCP for making more Capsuleer's spend real money purchasing PLEX to replace their lost ISK valuables. |
Arden Elenduil
Scary Devil Monastery
125
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Posted - 2014.08.22 21:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
This is not the place for trying to recruit, just saying... |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9026
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Posted - 2014.08.22 21:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
See my sig.
This is a videogame. A PvP centric videogame, what's more.
You don't call the people who run around not shooting anyone in Call of Duty a "good guy", do you? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4135
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Posted - 2014.08.22 21:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
DrysonBennington wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Do you know who the "good guys" in EVE are? Can you even tell me that?
Answer that question first and then we can talk. Follow the High Protectorate around sometime when we battle CODE. We do what we can to save the ships being attacked by CODE. regardless of who the ships belong too. We don't ask for rewards just that more pilots join us in keeping CODE. from ganking and taking ISK and real money out of the pockets of the Capsuleer's so that CODE. will be thought of as hero's by CCP for making more Capsuleer's spend real money purchasing PLEX to replace their lost ISK valuables. Are you actually trying to tell me code make people fork out actual hard currency? =][= |
Arden Elenduil
Scary Devil Monastery
126
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Posted - 2014.08.22 21:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Good lord, I even missed that part. I second what Ralph said, how in the world is CODE making people fork over real money? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9027
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Posted - 2014.08.22 22:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arden Elenduil wrote:Good lord, I even missed that part. I second what Ralph said, how in the world is CODE making people fork over real money?
Well, duh. Cyberbullying, or some other appropriately emotionally charged meaningless buzzword. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4366
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Posted - 2014.08.22 22:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Arden Elenduil wrote:Good lord, I even missed that part. I second what Ralph said, how in the world is CODE making people fork over real money? Well, duh. Cyberbullying, or some other appropriately emotionally charged meaningless buzzword. Worse....
I bet they identify themselves as honest businessmen from Nigeria, who want to transfer 2 million PLEX from the estate of a previously unknown deceased relative. Please send them 10 PLEX or the equivalent in currency to the email address provided, so they can establish your identity....
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1402
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Posted - 2014.08.22 22:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
There is not good, no bad, there is your reputastion and the reputation of those you associate with.
How others respond to that is the only measure and it is subjective, not objective. I have a fair sized bounty on me . . . does that mean I was bad or good?
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech Masters of Flying Objects
166
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Posted - 2014.08.23 01:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Felix Judge wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:Such would be a nicely developed and thought out bounty hunting system. And what is wrong with the current one? I think that Retribution fixed it and am genuinely curious. So pray tell where its faults are (and please not only by saying it is broken and can be gamed - if so, please say how).
It not worth pursuing. EVE is risk vs reward and yet, with it's current state, the risk is not worth the reward. Never mind the additional hassles on top of that. You can't just kill someone in hi-sec with a bounty without CONCORD getting involved. Catching someone with a bounty on them in low will still mean gate guns shooting you and a security status hit.
Only outside empire space can you openly engage anyone with a bounty and not be penalized for it.
Yes, giving someone a bounty is no longer equal to giving them isk and this is good but right now with a bounty payout only being 20% of the isk destroyed when taking out their ship, it's just a little added perk for taking out someone you planned to take out anyway for different reasons.
Then there is the fact that anyone can place a bounty on anyone else for any reason (or for even no reason) simply because they can. It lost all meaning to even have a bounty on your head. It doesn't really make life in game more dangerous for you.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9034
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Posted - 2014.08.23 02:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote: Then there is the fact that anyone can place a bounty on anyone else for any reason (or for even no reason) simply because they can. It lost all meaning to even have a bounty on your head. It doesn't really make life in game more dangerous for you.
Well, if I recall, that was the intent. You can put a bounty on someone for suicide ganking you, for not wishing you happy birthday, or anything in between.
More player freedom is definitely not the problem.
Now, in regards to it not being profitable as a profession, well, that's another matter. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
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