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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Damen Apol
Dayman Industries
57
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Posted - 2014.08.24 18:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:Rahelis wrote:You can farm in minnie space 23/7 - that is the power of cross farming. The minnie FW L4 are so easy, you can do them in a bomber - that is all the minmatar milita does all day and night.
I would prefer an all out war all factions against each other. we dont join FW to pve, we join to pvp
lol'd |
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
326
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Posted - 2014.08.24 18:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Typical. Let's all go cry on the forums instead of holding our home systems. |
Plato Forko
Forko Nanorobotics
87
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Posted - 2014.08.24 20:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
man, i've been in FW for long enough to know that the people who complain the most end up ruining militia the most while the guys who DGAF about militia and just want to get some lemmings together to go blap stuff incidentally do more good for the militia by providing the morale necessary for pilots to be ok with the idea of wasting time grinding for sov. My terribad blog where I QQ and rage about Amarr FW |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1348
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Posted - 2014.08.24 20:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
Once you realize that occupancy is a completely broken game for people with too much time and alts, the happier you will be.
It wasn't the lp that broke it either. It was broken before lp.
"It took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), GǪ.111 faction warfare complexes were captured GǪ I did not kill anyone in the process..Gǥ Ankhesentapemkah Posted - 2008.06.18 02:29:00 Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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greg01
Inglorious-Basterds
33
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Posted - 2014.08.24 20:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Just get an alt into every faction. Let the isk flow. ...
FW Comedy Central rages on.......... |
RonPaul Rox
Justified Chaos
43
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Posted - 2014.08.24 20:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Damen Apol wrote:RonPaul Rox wrote:Rahelis wrote:You can farm in minnie space 23/7 - that is the power of cross farming. The minnie FW L4 are so easy, you can do them in a bomber - that is all the minmatar milita does all day and night.
I would prefer an all out war all factions against each other. we dont join FW to pve, we join to pvp lol'd
saw your bio, lol'd
sorry you lost china and russia bro, but hey, at least you've still got north korea right?
lol http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2461
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Posted - 2014.08.24 23:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Once you realize that occupancy is a completely broken game It's only broken if you don't win. |
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association 24eme Legion Etrangere
136
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Posted - 2014.08.24 23:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Once you realize that occupancy is a completely broken game It's only broken if you don't win.
/o\
Mmm, CAOD is that way >>>>>>> "Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier" |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
229
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Posted - 2014.08.24 23:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mmhmm tasty caldari tears mmhmm. |
Combatevolved
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
57
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Posted - 2014.08.25 00:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ahh can't wait for the 6 or more months to get to T2. The nonexistent fighting will be overwhelming. |
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Ginger Barbarella
2003
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Posted - 2014.08.25 01:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:With the current situation of cross farming militas the simple question arises -
when will all toons have joined gal mil - farm in easy minmatar space and pay out in gal stores?
It is sad that FW is ****** up that hard - but there are facts we can not deny.
I'm very happy with Minnie FW, and have occassionally dropped an alt into Amarr. CalMil doesn't interest me, and there's a reason most of my alts are KOS in Gallente space. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2461
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Posted - 2014.08.25 01:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Once you realize that occupancy is a completely broken game It's only broken if you don't win. /o\ Mmm, CAOD is that way >>>>>>> Sorry, trollposts are the only valid response whine posts. The "Gallente are the favored sons of Eve" and "Plexing Alts win FW" are last year's excuses. And they would make perfect sense if not for the fact that Gallente have always had the worst rats to deal with, and we've thrived even though Caldari have always had more alts than us (until about 30 days ago).
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
327
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Posted - 2014.08.25 01:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
So much truth right there. We didn't hold our home systems with alts. |
Combatevolved
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
57
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Posted - 2014.08.25 02:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:So much truth right there. We didn't hold our home systems with alts.
Does anyone? |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
99
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Posted - 2014.08.25 07:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Gals are OP. It is a fact - easy to prove.
No one steals your victory or complains about you guys rolling the warzone, Xgal. Credit where it is due.
The intelligent players wants other players to play the game.
FW is totally broke and nothing than an ISK cow.
We can not fix that. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
369
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 10:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:Gals are OP. It is a fact - easy to prove.
No one steals your victory or complains about you guys rolling the warzone, Xgal. Credit where it is due.
The intelligent players wants other players to play the game.
FW is totally broke and nothing than an ISK cow.
We can not fix that. yes it's broken, just not in the way you are whinging about. There is no CCP favoritism. However,
The tier system needs some radical rethinking. It encourages farmers to gravitate to whoever gets the upperhand, thus perpetuating an advantage of the faction that is ahead atm. Essentially it is a feedback loop. Not the best structure for a perpetual war/struggle. At the very least some more tweaking needs to be done to the lp payouts and tier effects on them. Maybe this second wiping of all the systems by us will wake up the devs to the built in stupidity of the current system.
That being said, when you guys were up and steam farming us hard, we held off your pvp attemps on our home systems. This is something you guys haven't figured out how to do yet. Maybe next time. CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, please give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1348
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 12:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Once you realize that occupancy is a completely broken game It's only broken if you don't win. /o\ Mmm, CAOD is that way >>>>>>> Sorry, trollposts are the only valid response to whine posts. The "Gallente are the favored sons of Eve" and "Plexing Alts win FW" are last year's excuses. And they would make perfect sense if not for the fact that Gallente have always had the worst rats to deal with, and we've thrived even though Caldari have always had more alts than us (until about 30 days ago).
XG it was bad when Caldari won and Ank posted about capturing 100 plexes in 2 weeks without a single kill, and its bad now that Gallente are winning and you post about your alt capturing 100 plexes in 2 weeks. Both posts show fw is broken. The same problem exists - occupancy is most efficiently won by rabbit plexing. CCP has said they will address this for years but never has.
As for the rest:
Gallente lost all the systems for a long time when they had the worst rats in plexes.
If you mean the worst rats in missions well that likely helps you win faction war occupancy (or at worst it is a wash) because it makes plexing a relatively better way to get lp. When plexing is the best way to get lp you will have more people plexing/winning occupancy and less people just watering down your lp by mission running.
You yourself admitted your alt was averaging about 1000 vp per week. Other Gallente are speaking up about how great having defensive plexing alts in the game. Every faction has peoplle who are very interested in plexing. They almost always have alts Minmatar had Sasawong with sheltering sky, FHP had too many alts to count.
Denying that fw occupancy is a game for alts is denying the validity of basic arithmetic. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
1080
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 13:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
No one denied having alts. Just corrected you since you seem to believe people still capture systems with them and their d-plexing capabilities somehow fend off a determined assault.
In a way deplexing alts have ensured that every single system taken is done with some sort of pvp capable force.
Now, continue to entertain us with your presupposed grievances with a mechanic you try very hard to misunderstand. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1348
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 13:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:So much truth right there. We didn't hold our home systems with alts.
I see plenty of alts deplexing home systems and I have seen plenty of gallente admitting that. Every faction does that if they want to sit in a home system in fw.
But even if you were right, so what? You were at best at tier 2 holding your "home" systems. You cant move up the tiers until you get your alts are out there plexing systems. If faction war were a game where people had to fight 2 fights on average for each plex or the timer would rollback it would be a completely different game. It would be a game based on pvp. Now its the other extreme where 10 out of 11 plexes are captured without a fight. Plexing for occupancy is a non-starter for people who like to pvp.
Sure I like to go in plexes to find fights in busy systems , but I am not going to wait around after the fight to close the plex. No one will even know I am there to fight me! I don't pretend that what I am doing is nearly as helpful for the occupancy war as those who put multiple alts in the game and rabbit plex. If I really wanted to help my militia win the occupancy war I would buy another video card so I can plug in more monitors and buy more accounts and sit my alts in plexes. They could just run if someone comes in and plex a few systems down. Those are the people who are having the biggest impact on the war. If that is your idea of good game design then you will not want to change it. But IMO that just shows the game needs some changes to the mechanics.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
375
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Posted - 2014.08.25 13:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
so just kill the alts ... RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1348
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Posted - 2014.08.25 13:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:No one denied having alts. Just corrected you since you seem to believe people still capture systems with them and their d-plexing capabilities somehow fend off a determined assault.
In a way deplexing alts have ensured that every single system taken is done with some sort of pvp capable force.
Now, continue to entertain us with your presupposed grievances with a mechanic you try very hard to misunderstand.
Bottom line: Your militia can either muster up a large blob to hold one system long enough to take it, or there is nothing you can do to really contribute to the occupancy war.
FW = Null sec junior. Instead of blobs of 2000 battleships supporting caps and supers, we have blobs of 200 destroyers. \o/
IMO fw should involve a completely different type of warfare. Like Master Sergeant MacRobert keeps saying eve should have opportunities for all sorts of play styles. If you like the idea of blobbing a single system and winning a war based on being able to do that there is already null sec.
IMO FW should be for a different type of fighting. It should involve more than winning because you can put a bigger blob in a single system or 2. It should be constant fighting spread out throughout the war zone.
You should have to care if someone is plexing up your system enough to go fight them. You should think well I can just put an alt in there and deplex after he leaves. Timer rollbacks will frustrate alt rabbit plexers and thereby make it more important to fight the guy offensive plexing to begin with.
Irya Boone wrote:so just kill the alts ...
They just run a system or 2 over and plex there. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Captain Brace
Strong Erections Construction Company Honorable Third Party
0
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Posted - 2014.08.25 14:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:4 month ago a 4000 people alliance joined caldari militia ... Instant gratification WoW players are ruining one of the coolest parts of EvE, FW you could have said that at this time now look at the numbers back in the days there was more tha 1.5 K people in difference between the 2 militia now and only since 15 days galmil > calmil in term of numbers of pilots same on the amarr/minma side a 0.0 alliance join amarr +1500 avatars.... so !!
Even google translate isn't helping me understand this post. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
296
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 14:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
All join gal mil cuz stuff? Or because reasons? You decide for yourself I guess. BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
369
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 14:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cearain wrote: FW = Null sec junior. Instead of blobs of 2000 battleships supporting caps and supers, we have blobs of 200 destroyers. \o/ I don't think I've yet seen a galmil fleet with 200 members, and that's in 2 and half years in galmil. So it appears you are just pulling a number out of your ass. Anyway, Caldari always had more characters until recently. And for a long time they could put together some rather large blobs (better than us in US prime even). Blobbage is all relative. But please 200, more like always less than 100 on either side is more accurate.
Cearain wrote: IMO fw should involve a completely different type of warfare. Like Master Sergeant MacRobert keeps saying eve should have opportunities for all sorts of play styles. If you like the idea of blobbing a single system and winning a war based on being able to do that there is already null sec.
IMO FW should be for a different type of fighting. It should involve more than winning because you can put a bigger blob in a single system or 2. It should be constant fighting spread out throughout the war zone.
You should have to care if someone is plexing up your system enough to go fight them. You should think well I can just put an alt in there and deplex after he leaves. Timer rollbacks will frustrate alt rabbit plexers and thereby make it more important to fight the guy offensive plexing to begin with. Gathering forces together, blobbage if you will, is necessary to contest a home system. How the Caldari got to their last remaining system again is a combination of the tier lp payout feedback loop inducing farmers to plex mostly for the side that already has an advantage, and the better ability of Galmil to pvp siege Caldari home systems. One of these factors CCP can address. The other is out of their hands.
CCP could rp some mechanic whereby once a militia gains an upperhand and invades the other faction FW space maybe the Dust fights get harder. Call it civilian resistance aiding the defending Dust militia. Repelling the invaders. Theres one way CCP could put some built in brakes on the current inevitable down to out process.
CCP could change the lp payouts again to favor dplexing, but only in the traditional own faction regions. Or something else, it really doesn't matter. They could put some built in brakes. LP is an npc construct. All sorts of ways then to mess with it's accumulation under the guise of rp/back story.
Hopefully this current conquest will convince CCP to do something again with lp/tiers/plexes/missions to bring a dynamic stability that really we all want. While it is smugly satisfying to take the entire warzone, actually, all of us would rather have more exciting fights against calmil than against opportunistic bored nullsec or pirate interlopers.
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, please give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals. |
Moglarr
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
9
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Posted - 2014.08.25 14:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:CCP could change the lp payouts again to favor dplexing, but only in the traditional own faction regions. Or something else, it really doesn't matter. They could put some built in brakes. LP is an npc construct. All sorts of ways then to mess with it's accumulation under the guise of rp/back story.
Hopefully this current conquest will convince CCP to do something again with lp/tiers/plexes/missions to bring a dynamic stability that really we all want. While it is smugly satisfying to take the entire warzone, actually, all of us would rather have more exciting fights against calmil than against opportunistic bored nullsec or pirate interlopers.
This is possibly a terrible idea buuuut.... as your tier goes up oplexing LP goes up, as tier drops dplexing LP goes up. Basically the faction you're in wants you to push harder when you have momentum, and rewards it/or wants you to stand your ground and hold systems when the enemy is advancing. This way one side doesn't get completely tanked for income and pilots while the other side rolls in ISK and new recruits. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
296
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 14:55:00 -
[56] - Quote
Moglarr wrote:This way one side doesn't get completely tanked for income and pilots while the other side rolls in ISK and new recruits.
If you are having major issues with recruiting in Tier 1 to compete from a PVP or FW control perspective, then you are trying to recruit the wrong kind of players. Most PVP pilots like targets, especially ones they generally don't have to fly far to find. BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos
85
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Posted - 2014.08.25 15:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:No one denied having alts. Just corrected you since you seem to believe people still capture systems with them and their d-plexing capabilities somehow fend off a determined assault.
In a way deplexing alts have ensured that every single system taken is done with some sort of pvp capable force.
Now, continue to entertain us with your presupposed grievances with a mechanic you try very hard to misunderstand. Bottom line: Your militia can either muster up a large blob to hold one system long enough to take it, or there is nothing you can do to really contribute to the occupancy war. FW = Null sec junior. Instead of blobs of 2000 battleships supporting caps and supers, we have blobs of 200 destroyers. \o/ IMO fw should involve a completely different type of warfare. Like Master Sergeant MacRobert keeps saying eve should have opportunities for all sorts of play styles. If you like the idea of blobbing a single system and winning a war based on being able to do that there is already null sec. IMO FW should be for a different type of fighting. It should involve more than winning because you can put a bigger blob in a single system or 2. It should be constant fighting spread out throughout the war zone. You should have to care if someone is plexing up your system enough to go fight them. You should think well I can just put an alt in there and deplex after he leaves. Timer rollbacks will frustrate alt rabbit plexers and thereby make it more important to fight the guy offensive plexing to begin with. Irya Boone wrote:so just kill the alts ... They just run a system or 2 over and plex there.
How can people that lose at FW be so adamant they understand it better then those that win, and have fun while doing so?
You really need to join a militia that wins occasionally.
People that are adamant they understand the game better than the people beating them are pretty annoying.
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1349
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 15:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:Cearain wrote: FW = Null sec junior. Instead of blobs of 2000 battleships supporting caps and supers, we have blobs of 200 destroyers. \o/ I don't think I've yet seen a galmil fleet with 200 members, and that's in 2 and half years in galmil. So it appears you are just pulling a number out of your ass. Anyway, Caldari always had more characters until recently. And for a long time they could put together some rather large blobs (better than us in US prime even). Blobbage is all relative. But please 200, more like always less than 100 on either side is more accurate.
I meant total participants including all militias that join to fight in a system and neutrals that might join. Yes I was being charitable. The blob warfare is more like "baby null sec" than "null sec junior." The reason we don't get those sorts of numbers despite having 20,000 in faction war is because faction war is currently a game for alts.
But my point is still the same get the numbers to pile in a single system long enough and you win. Even if we had 2000 people fighting for a system it still would just be mirroring null sec. IMO FW should involve a different form of pvp.
And your saying Caldari had more characters is irrelevant. When there are only 200 showing up for a fight who cares if one militia has 5,500 and the other only has 5000? Very few are in it for the pvp because its not really a pvp system.
Deacon Abox wrote:Cearain wrote: IMO fw should involve a completely different type of warfare. Like Master Sergeant MacRobert keeps saying eve should have opportunities for all sorts of play styles. If you like the idea of blobbing a single system and winning a war based on being able to do that there is already null sec.
IMO FW should be for a different type of fighting. It should involve more than winning because you can put a bigger blob in a single system or 2. It should be constant fighting spread out throughout the war zone.
You should have to care if someone is plexing up your system enough to go fight them. You should think well I can just put an alt in there and deplex after he leaves. Timer rollbacks will frustrate alt rabbit plexers and thereby make it more important to fight the guy offensive plexing to begin with. Gathering forces together, blobbage if you will, is necessary to contest a home system.
I agree blobbage - gathering forces and putting them in one system is key to the current system. But home systems are irrelevant. to the tier system.
Deacon Abox wrote: How the Caldari got to their last remaining system again is a combination of the tier lp payout feedback loop inducing farmers to plex mostly for the side that already has an advantage, and the better ability of Galmil to pvp siege Caldari home systems. One of these factors CCP can address. The other is out of their hands.
Gallente can get a bigger blob in a single system to take the system. Then they have a larger number of alts to hold those systems. That is all there is to it.
The system is not that unbalanced it's just that if you aren't interested in having multiple alts rabbit plexing the game has no interest. Amarr had allot of systems and they are losing them to oplexers. Gallente just had a few large pushes but most systems became contested and fell because no one from caldari or amarr really wanted to multibox a bunch of defensive plexing alts. Well at least one guy did for amarr but I hear he biomassed his character.
Make the occupancy game pvp and you make if fun. Most pvpers don't care whether they get an extra 500lp plexing for one side or the other. Nor do they care if they get some medal of high five from a dev. Does plexing bring about exciting fights? If yes they will do it. Actually allot more people will plex if it did that. But it doesn't. Plexing is most efficiently done in a system where no enemy even knows your there and if one happens to wander in your best avenue for occupancy is to simply warp out and start another plex in the next system. Come back to the plex later and it will be right were you left it because pvpers aren't interested in the current occupancy game.
As far as balance:
Capturing large plexes for amarr you get 2 million in tags for each npc killed. Thats about 120 mill per hour. (assuming you kill one per minute) So even if you lose time on the plex you still wont drop below that. You can easilly do this in a stabbed shield tanked vexor. Then when you capture the plex you get 30k lp at tier 2. That will get you about 3k isk per lp. So its not the case that the rewards are too slanted.
I think the tides will change. But they will likely change because people in gallente will find better things to do with their lives than sit rabbit alts in plexes. Most normal people get burnt out on that. After Gallente got there first medal we heard many of the pvpers happy that was over and glad to get back to pvp. (and kills went up allot after the plexing campaign) It's a rare bird that keeps at occupancy plexing for a long time. In sum the tides will change because the game is too boring for most people to keep at it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Mr Duffo
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
58
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 16:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
gals sux go back to villore and mine |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1349
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 16:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:Cearain wrote:Irya Boone wrote:so just kill the alts ... They just run a system or 2 over and plex there. How can people that lose at FW be so adamant they understand it better then those that win, and have fun while doing so? You really need to join a militia that wins occasionally. People that are adamant they understand the game better than the people beating them are pretty annoying.
All the factions have been winning and losing at faction war since it came out. The basic problem of rabbit plexing has never been addressed. It existed in 2008 when ank posted about capping over 100 plexes in 2 weeks without a kill and it exists now with XG talking about capping 100 plexes with his alt in the same amount of time.
I see with my eyes what happens in the warzone. I see the alts warping off. I see the api statistics and look at the killboards of those who get the most vp for a day. I see that when one side has sufficiently more numbers in a fleet the other side - yes even gallente - stands down. Plenty of my time in huola was spent plexing while gallente/minmatar pilots sat there docked up because they simply didn't have the numbers. When they had the numbers amarr/caldari stood down. I don't need to drink the kool-aid certain people offer on these forums about occupancy proving some sort of pvp prowess. I believe my own eyes more than what I read in the forums. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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