Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
464
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 05:01:00 -
[121] - Quote
Walls of text decrying how defensive plexing alts win FW. First it was offensive plexing alts, now defensive plexing alts. You look for any excuse to try and belittle the efforts of actual pilots who took the time and effort to flip systems and take full warzone control. Probably because you couldn't do it yourself. Last I checked it actually takes people offensive plexing to flip a system. You want to prove your theories? Then do it. Get your own friends/allies and army of de-plex alts, then come on over to the Gallente warzone and take our systems. Stop shiptoasting on the forums and actually do something.
TL:DR: Plexing alts don't flip systems. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2484
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 05:13:00 -
[122] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: But yeah drink the gallente koolaid and you will get the idea that test entered some home syste with 2000 players and 4 gallente fought them off in atrons. Whatever revision history you want.
Scoreboard: Gallente 2, Cearain 0. I admit I can not beat the entire gallente militia alone but the way some of them blob I think many would consider it a good fight. Don't be so mad. At least you didn't take any days off work to try to stop us this time. Yeah this gallente campaign was not likely to be much more exciting than huola so I didn't bother taking off work - or even logging in. I think I called that right. But you can still count it as a win against me if it makes you feel better about yourself. It was actually pretty damn exciting. Thousands of kills over 2 weeks. Lots of death and carnage. And yes, I'll take the win over players who decide to quit and not show up for the fight. Win is win.
|
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
101
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 07:42:00 -
[123] - Quote
Plexing alts are the major power in CCP FW.
Crosi - station lockouts in NPC null sex? In never heard of that.
But lets us face the facts.
Gals won FW.
|
Veronica Isagar
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 08:26:00 -
[124] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:Plexing alts are the major power in CCP FW.
But lets us face the facts.
Gals won FW.
I'm just curious, when was the last time you ran a plex, in FW.
And since the mechanic change, alts don't normally o-plex, mite de-plex, if anything, and the people who did de-plex key systems far as I know were all main's. mite have 1 or 2 alts in the mix, but all mains.
We (as in Gallente Federation) took the warzone, we provided content, we proven our logistical capabilities, we were ready to fight when the fight was there. We stood our watch. But what I can't get over is the amount of text that is written just in an attempt to prove or disprove a point, you ever heard of K.I.S.S.? You really mite want to look it up one day, as you clearly have a lot time on your hands to write full essays and novels while you operate in null-sec, by the way hows them deadly asteroids working out for ya, and there friends, the red crosses?? I'm sure someone will quote this statement and write out another chapter, or two, just to say something. Like I said K.I.S.S. its such a wonderful thing.
Enjoy |
Veronica Isagar
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 08:32:00 -
[125] - Quote
Mr Duffo wrote:gals sux go back to villore and mine
Duffo, play nice, we won fair and square, Maybe you should go remove those pesky varmints the asteroids from Vlillore and there Deadly Friends, the dreaded red crosses, for a change. I know living in hi-sec isn't your cup of tea, but I hear Amarr has lovely weather this time of year hun, give ya a chance to work on your tan.
Enjoy!! |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1353
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 14:54:00 -
[126] - Quote
Test proved that you don't need to take home systems to hit tier 4. You guys keep talking about how important home systems are but the mechanics don't actually say that. Sure it causes some disruption. But really by now people know how to use black frog. It's not that big of a deal.
As far as how many kills you get plexing "back waters" I have my experience you have yours. Your telling me what it is like is not going to change what I see with my own eyes. I will let others make up their own minds based on whether they see lots of pilots warping out of plexes. Why don't we leave it at that?
Yuri Antollare wrote: Was someone able to send an unfit derptron at some point of the day to deplexe freely in a system that Calmill needed to survive? Almost certainly... and?? Again if there is not enough Calmill resistance to push out an unfit atron..
I don't think its that no one could fly an unfit derptron to rabbit plex. Its more that rabbit plexing is not very fun. Since you need to do that to win occupancy war people don't really care about winning it. That is why this campaign had fairly pathetic numbers compared to the number of subscribers in eve and even compared to the number of people in fw. Its not the players it's the game.
Yuri Antollare wrote: Your Huola analysis is consistently bewildering, .. The vast majority of galmill plex doctrines are designed around the singular purpose of fighting outnumbered and being able to treat the campaign as a game of inches when we have to
You feel bewildered because I am telling you something inconsistent with the gallente magic talk. Start counting the numbers in your fleet and the number of enemies that show up on dscan in a plex before the fight. You will see you do not fight outnumbered any more than they do.
As far as what you saw you said you were on a few hours before or after downtime. Thats about 6am central time for the us an about noon in Europe. Think about what I said about the numbers in battle reports and understand how your time period might not be a very good indicator.
Yuri Antollare wrote: . Derptrons are designed to cost so little they can be used in an attrition format, the long range kestrels are designed to give 5-6 people a chance in novices against 20-30 man gangs, breacher coraxes are again, designed to pack the most punch for tank/isk and swing the casualty rates. These are fits that have been used as intended since the closing days of Evoke, let alone TEST.
I love the gallente derptron doctrine everyone in fleet would salivate when we would see them on d-scan. But gallente would only send a few in and then stop feeding them to us in huola. Whether something like this would work against test or other nullbears I imagine it would. But they don't claim to be pvpers at all.
Yuri Antollare wrote: For me to believe what you seem to think happened in Huola, would require me to assume that Galmill all of a sudden stopped fighting in the manner that we always do and that our logistics demand. When you are also the guy selling derptrons, periodically logging into UStz, and being heavily involved in AU/early EU, your opinion becomes even harder to believe because I was actually there.
Ok so you think the entire time that huola was plexed up to say 70% contested gallelnte were throwing derptrons the entire time? Sorry to say this isn't true, I wish it were if you did we probably would have kept the fleet numbers up. But gallente sat docked with the minmatar and the amarr ran plexes unopposed. Again I will believe my own eyes. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1354
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 15:29:00 -
[127] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote: Quips like "if they have 30 and u have 10 no one warps in" reveal your lack of understanding of the deeper strategies at play. GǪOne has to only look at the fits and doctrines Amarr use (in comparison to us) to realize they were never structured to fight that way, you kill two derptrons and we kill your 9mill inquisitor, ad infinitum. Your inability to fight for a minute here or there or inflict losses during 'bad' times for you stood in stark contrast to our ability to slow you and still inflict losses even when we had four people in fleet.
Sure both sides were trying to get in plexes early and split the other side up a bit when they were outnumbered. But the vast majority of the time when one side was outnumbered 3 to 1 they sat out.
You are wrong to think isk was a big issue in this campaign. A nine million isk inquisitor was not a big deal. Generally speaking when you have fewer pilots you try to get a bit more out each with better fittings. Sure itGÇÖs dumb to go with faction fittings unless you are extremely space rich but t2 fittings are usually preferred. On the other hand if you outnumber your opponent sufficiently you might as well fly cheap tech 1 fits. So you got it backwards.
Isk was not the issue. I offered the ceos isk and fittings if they wanted it and never had one take me up on it. The problem was we could not keep the numbers in fleets that we needed for the extended time we needed to bring huola vulnerable.
Yuri Antollare wrote: As to the TEST goals, its a sandbox so we can't deny them a victory if they wish to define it as reaching T4, tbh though under the system as was then, that wouldn't be much of a goal as it would be fairly inevitable given their size. GǪ. You may say we moved the goalposts...
Tier 4 is basically the goal in the mechanics. Tier 5 is hardly cost effective in the current system.
Ok I will be fair. I it wasnGÇÖt really changing the goalposts. Gallente have been talking about holding home systems before test. But the goalpost is a made up one. And all the talk about how holding these GÇ£key systemsGÇ¥ will prevent the other side from this or that were basically proven false. Test proved you donGÇÖt need to take home systems to hit tier 4. And tier 4 is basically the best economic situation you can get under the current mechanics.
Yuri Antollare wrote: But the assertion that TEST didnt want to take Eha or continue crushing galmill home systems from there is patently ludicrous to anyone with passing familiarity of the conflict. Not only did they say as much in their first leaked meetings, but I was there for month after month of the sperging in local about exactly what their intentions were.
Ok I admit I just read the forums and some of the reddit threads. On reddit you would have someone say hey lets take _____ home system! And the response would be GÇ£why fight at a disadvantage in their home system? Of course gallente want us to go where they are all set up but why go to the terrain they want? I have to say that makes allot of sense.
On the forums you would have some test member saying how they took all these systems and they are at this or that tier. Then some gallente yeah but you didnGÇÖt take system X so we win! And honestly I donGÇÖt think most people from test thought you were serious. Because when you look at something describing the actual mechanics of faction war you donGÇÖt see anything about victory conditions based on holding certain systems. I know the guy was serious but there was really no reason to expect someone who wasnGÇÖt used to the militia rp lore to take that seriously. Now it seems clear that test did make some sort of half assed effort at eha GÇô I think because they had agents there. And maybe you did fight outnumbered but the fights I saw from that campaign on you tube showed gallente with the numerical advantage. In other words Test did not bring 2000 pilots in system and gallente held them off. But I admit I donGÇÖt really know. Maybe you did fight outnumbered against test. If I were to pick a group to fight outnumbered against Test would be near the top.
Yuri Antollare wrote: Perhaps others such as your esteemed Amarr could have also held them off, but since we've beat both you and them, forgive us for not really caring either way.
Well like I said before it wasnGÇÖt really the amarr militia but one amarr corp of 31 players that farmed kills from test when they happened to base out of the same low sec system.
IGÇÖm not sure what you mean when you say you GÇ£beat the amarr.GÇ¥ But yeah you probably could beat the amarr at this game of rabbit plexing. Amarr has fairly consistently been the smallest and most pvp focused militia. We donGÇÖt have an interest in the whole rabbit plexing game. But why donGÇÖt you come and see? I am sure many would like the pvp to be conveniently delivered close to home even if it is mostly blobby.
Yuri Antollare wrote: P.S The kool-aid references would work better if minnies/gals lost Huola, if the georgetown residents had actually ascended to heaven then we would have been the idiots. ..
The issue is not whether you held huola. Sure that is reality. The kool-aid is when you start claiming you won all the battles when you were clearly outnumbered and kept fighting when you were outnumbered. You didnGÇÖt. When you were outnumbered you mostly sat in stations and Amarr plexed up the system unopposed.
To use your analogy we are not idiots for not drinking the kool-aid. Some koolaid drinkers might in fact be there. They are likely there despite drinking the koolaid as opposed to being there because they drank it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
414
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 15:32:00 -
[128] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Test proved that you don't need to take home systems to hit tier 4. Simple math proves that. Owning 61% of systems in the WZ can give you Tier 4 if you play it right. Going for more than that doesn't make sense unless you're pushing for another reason.
Quote:You guys keep talking about how important home systems are but the mechanics don't actually say that. Sure it causes some disruption. But really by now people know how to use black frog. It's not that big of a deal. You're confusing Tier and number of systems held with actual control. Probably something to do with your insane focus on VP numbers uber alles, which leads you to believe that "rabbit plexers" are the ultimate tool of control.
They're not.
Control depends on your ability to project power over an area. "Home Systems" are well stocked nodal points chosen for their geographic advantages - specifically their ability to influence traffic through their zone of control.
Failure to recognize that means you're not even playing the same game we are.
Granted, you're over in the Min/Amarr zone, which is a totally different beast - primarily because of geography. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
102
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 06:11:00 -
[129] - Quote
Cear - the gals won - it is true that CCP made them OP and did even actiivly help them - but the other side is the gal mil did better than any other milita.
This is a fact.
As I said before, I do not blame my fellow players in EVE - and I still love the game - the problem is simply bad game design.
I have great respect for them gals - they show commitment and fight. What more can you wish of an opposing milita?
You are measured by you foes, after all.
Huola campaign is over - we set it up to burn stuff and had good fun doing so.
The future is what matters. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 10:19:00 -
[130] - Quote
Veskrashen
I think we agree on quite a bit actually.
We both agree simple math shows that you don't need home systems to take tier 4.
We both might agree that tier 5 is really not an economically sound goal.
Those are the goals set up by ccp. The rest like holding a home system are personal goals that anyone can strive for but there is no real mechanic incentive.
I do agree that holding on to your home bases allows gallente to have more power projection. And because you have a larger war zone that might have more importance. But even the caldari gallente war zone has about 20 systems that border the faction war zone. Not all have stations so you may have to go another jump from there. And some are high sec which might be a problem for some pilots below -5 (although I never really had a problem going one jump into low sec when my sec status was that low) And yes some are in enemy high sec space but again there is generally no problem bringing plexing ships one or 2 jumps in.
So from the perspective of pure occupancy gaining there are multiple places that anyone can base and have better access to these multiple border systems than your home systems would provide. Then its just a matter of grinding plex after plex after plex, for those with the will to do that. From there putting plexing ships in a few stations as you work in is not a big deal. Again if you are interested in plexing.
The problem is who wants to do that? It's extremely boring. Especially if you gain occupancy in the most efficient manner possible. That is why so many in faction war don't even bother with it. It's not that there is some big secret on how to do it.
Veskrashen wrote:
You're playing a different game, Cerain. You know nothing about the world our militia inhabits. Trying to tell us we're wrong while demonstrating a shocking lack of understanding of the realities of our faction and our warzone is why we continue to marginalize your arguments.
I understand the game. The fact that 5 veteran players and a pack of 50 new players following them disagree and try to marginalize the points I raise is not a big deal.
Huge numbers of people are finding that faction war occupancy is not worth playing. Its for the same reasons. They eventually realize that the best way to gain occupancy is to get multiple alt accounts and start rabbit plexing.
XG tries to deny it and is one of the most outspoken in trying to marginalize the points I make. Yet he admits his alt deplexed 100 plexes in 2 weeks. The proof is in what you do, not in what you say.
Crosi admits plexing alts are important and has learned to embrace them.
Both of those players now say rollbacks are "no longer needed." Gallente used to have a stong emphasis on pvp and it was a gallente pilot who gave the most elegant proposal for timer rollbacks. But in the meantime gallente started getting lots and lots of alts to defensive plex. I saw this in the war zone. Caldari would oplex to farm isk. Gallente would have alts to dplex mainly for occupancy.
Well ccp boosted defensive alt plexing and that happened to help the gallente defensive plexing alt army and stunted the caldari farmers. It wasn't an intentional boost to gallente by ccp - so no I'm not tinfoil hatting, and to be clear, I don't think ccp ever intentionally tried to help a particular miltia. But this change happened to be good for the gallente defensive alt army and bad for the caldari alt army.
So now since it is defensive alts that are favored all of a sudden timer rollbacks are "not needed." As if defensive alts in plexes are any more pvp oriented.
There are 300,000 subscribers to eve. Tens of thousands of those players have tried faction war and see that occupancy mechanics need to be fixed so don't waste their time. Possibly you and the few dozen people who think its great are the ones at the margin. Even the other 20,000 players currently in faction war understand that the occupancy war with these mechanics is not something to care about. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
1099
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 12:42:00 -
[131] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I understand the game.
Then how do you explain almost everything you have ever posted?
Non of your impressions of FW are even close to the game i play. Your lack of interest in how people who actually play the game see it, is as always, astonishing. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 12:53:00 -
[132] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:I understand the game. Then how do you explain almost everything you have ever posted? Non of your impressions of FW are even close to the game i play. Your lack of interest in how people who actually play the game see it, is as always, astonishing.
Were you astonished when XG admitted his alt captured 100 plexes in 2 weeks?
I wasn't surprised at all. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
1099
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 13:06:00 -
[133] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:I understand the game. Then how do you explain almost everything you have ever posted? Non of your impressions of FW are even close to the game i play. Your lack of interest in how people who actually play the game see it, is as always, astonishing. Were you astonished when XG admitted his alt captured 100 plexes in 2 weeks? I wasn't surprised at all.
You might be astonished how many fights xg's alts generated him. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 13:17:00 -
[134] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:I understand the game. Then how do you explain almost everything you have ever posted? Non of your impressions of FW are even close to the game i play. Your lack of interest in how people who actually play the game see it, is as always, astonishing. Were you astonished when XG admitted his alt captured 100 plexes in 2 weeks? I wasn't surprised at all. You might be astonished how many fights xg's alts generated him.
Oh yeah here we go with the spin. Really all these d-plexing alts don't really effect occupancy, they are actually there to get fights. Right right. There are much better ways to use an alt to get fights than sitting him in a plex orbitting a button 20 hours a week. We both know that.
Oh and by the way XG himself isn't even showing as getting 780 vp for the week.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
1099
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 13:24:00 -
[135] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:I understand the game. Then how do you explain almost everything you have ever posted? Non of your impressions of FW are even close to the game i play. Your lack of interest in how people who actually play the game see it, is as always, astonishing. Were you astonished when XG admitted his alt captured 100 plexes in 2 weeks? I wasn't surprised at all. You might be astonished how many fights xg's alts generated him. Oh yeah here we go with the spin. Really all these d-plexing alts don't really effect occupancy, they are actually there to get fights. Right right. There are much better ways to use an alt to get fights than sitting him in a plex orbitting a button 20 hours a week. We both know that. Oh and by the way XG himself isn't even showing as getting 780 vp for the week.
Excuse me for one second while i compare xg's killboard and yours to see who is doing it right. Oh, lol. No surprises there, zero kills this month. You are quite the authority on how to play eve. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
417
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 13:25:00 -
[136] - Quote
Cereain -
We actually don't agree. Case in point:
Quote:Those are the goals set up by ccp. CCP does not create goals. They create incentives. It is the players who create the goals, who define the desired end state, who decide how the game they are playing in this giant sandbox will be scored.
When we say you don't understand the game we're playing, we're serious. You are playing a different game with different rules and a different scoreboard.
In your game, it's all about the LP gained and the VP gained. For us it's PvP opportunities and warzone control defined as how much of the warzone we can project power into and reasonably determine the ownership / use of.
Thus, pre-Kronos, timer rollbacks for instance were a huge deal. The alt farming hordes, combined with the ease of o-plexing, meant that the time required to take a plex compared to that to defend it was seriously out of whack. We thus narrowed our zone of influence that we'd be willing to patrol / keep at low contested levels. Timer rollbacks would have helped balance this effort / reward a great deal.
CCP went a different route, requiring a lot more commitment in terms of time / ship fit / risk / etc in order to get the lucrative rewards of oplexing. That definitely cut down the alt oplexing, which correspondingly reduced the defensive burden. Of course we keep deplexing alts on hand - that way we ensure our home systems and those being farmed in the backwaters don't get out of control. You'll note that the systems currently under pressure in our WZ are those right next to highsec, those with L5 agents, and Diesel's home system of Mantenault. In other words, areas that are considered valuable and that are being deliberately plexed higher.
Look, your WZ is different, you're using different metrics for success, you have different goals, your culture is different over there. YOU ARE PLAYING A DIFFERENT DAMN GAME. You cannot use that as a reference for how things are played in our part of the game, and the fact that you keep arguing when even our Caldari opponents are telling you you're wrong never ceases to amaze me.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 13:37:00 -
[137] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:Cear - the gals won - it is true that CCP made them OP and did even actiivly help them - but the other side is the gal mil did better than any other milita.
This is a fact.
As I said before, I do not blame my fellow players in EVE - and I still love the game - the problem is simply bad game design.
I have great respect for them gals - they show commitment and fight. What more can you wish of an opposing milita?
You are measured by you foes, after all.
Huola campaign is over - we set it up to burn stuff and had good fun doing so.
The future is what matters.
Rahelis
If you want to be good at the occupancy war you will do what XG and Cynthia nezmor and fhp did. You will get alts and start them orbiting buttons. Gallente are better than that than other militias that is true. They are might also be the best at blobbing a single system.
As for what follows I am not sure but its more of a hunch based on what I saw anecdotally and what I read:
I don't think gallente alts are farmers. If they were farmers they would not be deplexing they would be oplexing in amarr space. I don't know but suspect much of the gallente deplexing alt phenemona started with inferno. They did it so they could simply dock in fw space due to station lockouts.
I think the caldari tended to be more farmers. In it primarily for the isk than the gallente. This change happened to help gallente since their alts were doing defensive plexing anyway since they were not in it for the isk. It hit caldari a bit harder because their alts were farmers.
The change also helped gallente because unlike caldari when offensive plexing got harder they could switch to missions. Running missions only effects the warzone for your side negatively unless you use all that lp to help your side. But ideally players would run missions for the other side to water down the lp the enemy plexers get and use that for their side.
But anyway if you want to win occupancy by all means get out there and plex. Don't believe the people who say vp doesn't matter. Gallente got more vp than the caldari that is why the caldari systems went vulnerable. Until you get 3000 more vp in an enemy system the system is *invulnerable* and can not be flipped. Get as much vp as you can. I think you will find its just as easy to use an alt as your main and multiple alts are better. You might find you don't even want your main to be in space when you are running the maximum number of plexing alts you can handle/afford. If someone comes just jump over a few systems and run a plex there. Then come back to your plex after you finish that one or get chased out again. You will drive the contested most effieicently that way.
If that is your future good luck. It's not my future.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
1099
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 13:41:00 -
[138] - Quote
Cearain wrote:hunch based on what I saw anecdotally
Cearain wrote:I don't know but suspect
Pretty much sums up all cearain posts ever. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 13:42:00 -
[139] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo
I see you are uncomfortable talking about the fact that XG admitted his alt gained 100 plexes in 2 weeks and so your trying to switch the topic to killboards. I'm not surprised.
We are talking about occupancy not kills. Kills at best indirectly effects occupancy vp always directly effects it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
309
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 13:45:00 -
[140] - Quote
Seems the way we play generates a lot more PVP than whatever you are doing, and yes, I have plexing alts. BLFOX is currently recruiting |
|
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
417
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 14:21:00 -
[141] - Quote
Cearain wrote:We are talking about occupancy not kills. Kills at best indirectly effects occupancy vp always directly effects it. Wrong. VP only affects occupancy if the kills come along with it. Otherwise it's just spinning wheels in the ether.
We'll say it again so it's easy for you to grasp, without all the noise.
Occupancy changes when iHUBs get bashed. iHubs only get bashed when PvPers decide to do so. In general, there are fights on the hub or in the system beforehand. Any VPs gained up until that point, that don't directly lead to a hub bash, are essentially irrelevant.
Total VP/day per faction means nothing unless systems are actually getting flipped. Otherwise, it's just LP farming or maintenance or existing holdings.
Also, you often need more or less than 3000VP to make a system vulnerable, and anyone with a brain overplexes their target systems before bashing.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2489
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 15:10:00 -
[142] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:You might be astonished how many fights xg's alts generated him. Actually, none - but because it wasn't needed. The Caldari weren't really pushing the backwater systems hard enough. If the counter attack would have been sustained then we would have used alts as "Canaries (in a coal mine)" in that if a WT fleet came by we would then get a fleet up to go meet them. We did this one night and it worked out really well, but in the end it wasn't needed. BTW, this counter plexing technique was learned from PERVS a long time ago.
But, again, it wasn't needed. Caldari were finally defeated in Asakai and the rest turned out to be the cleanup effort that all winning sides need to do to finish off their victory. (Of course this is 20/20 hindsight now. At the time we still expected heavier resistance in Heydieles, and perhaps an Amarrian intervention in Ladistier. But.... nothing....)
|
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
103
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:01:00 -
[143] - Quote
Cear - I have no interest in winning occupacy war - nether had FHP.
We had interest in fights.
That was the reason we joined FW. It was good fun. The fights ended with the huola campaign - we all knew that.
Now the amarr farmzone is dirven by all those alts that joined gal mil for the LP.
FW is over and it was complete fail., game wise.
Some amarr heros still hold on an def - they do nothing than providing farmers of the other actions with LP. 07 to all that carry on.
The four miltas all suffer from different fail game design.
Some of them failed designs where corrected - like the new systems and gates in amarr space. Or the removal of cloaks in 30k radius.
The asymmetry is still too big.
Cal mil is extinct and only farmers remain. Amarr mil mostly withdrew and players went to other places in EVE. Minmatar mil is still farming as ever - the only thing they ever did. Gal mil won FW and is now farming in minmatar space.
There is no war in FW.
it is FF - faction farming - I am not bitter about this - this is how CCP wanted FW to be from the start.
CCP never wanted FW to be concurrent to null sex.
Look at the WH changes - CCP is making WH space a second null sex space now.
If you want to see bitter ppl - read the WH farmers posts.
CCP is right - there can only be warfare in EVE if it is player driven. |
Shad owLord
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
7
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:15:00 -
[144] - Quote
Rahelis wrote: Cal mil is extinct and only farmers remain.
Quite the opposite actually. |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
103
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:22:00 -
[145] - Quote
I am not trying to insult you.
Fleets of kestrels and the like - that is not the FW I was used to play. We used to fly BS/BC and had cap fights in cal mil. Those were great times. Fleets were too full so we had to make second fleets. Same before in amarr mil - those were the biggest cap fights I saw so far.
That is all gone now - CCP removed it to make FW nothing than a farm zone.
There will always be some fighting between farming - that is for sure - but the age of FW is over. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
467
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:32:00 -
[146] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:I am not trying to insult you.
Fleets of kestrels and the like - that is not the FW I was used to play. We used to fly BS/BC and had cap fights in cal mil. Those were great times. Fleets were too full so we had to make second fleets. Same before in amarr mil - those were the biggest cap fights I saw so far.
That is all gone now - CCP removed it to make FW nothing than a farm zone.
There will always be some fighting between farming - that is for sure - but the age of FW is over.
Bittervet tears = Best tears! |
Dread Delgarth
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
48
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:32:00 -
[147] - Quote
All this moaning about defensive plex alts is a bit lame IMO.
It's like complaining PL are only successful because they have so many cyno alts. |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:33:00 -
[148] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:You might be astonished how many fights xg's alts generated him. Actually, none - but because it wasn't needed. The Caldari weren't really pushing the backwater systems hard enough. If the counter attack would have been sustained then we would have used alts as "Canaries (in a coal mine)" in that if a WT fleet came by we would then get a fleet up to go meet them. We did this one night and it worked out really well. BTW, this counter plexing technique was learned from PERVS a long time ago. But, again, it wasn't needed. Caldari were finally defeated in Asakai and the rest turned out to be the cleanup effort that all winning sides need to do to finish off their victory. (Of course this is 20/20 hindsight now. At the time we still expected heavier resistance in Heydieles, and perhaps an Amarrian intervention in Ladistier. But.... nothing....)
Your honesty is appreciated. And I have used plexing alts to help get fights but I have found that to the extent I wanted to really use them to find fights they actually finished very few plexes.
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Seems the way we play generates a lot more PVP than whatever you are doing, and yes, I have plexing alts.
I am not doing anything to get pvp now. So yeah your likely doing more. My favorite pvp is/was in and around plexes. When I was after pvp I would go to busy systems open a plex and see if anyone would come. If not I would leave. Rarely would I bother finishing the plex. If I saw plexes open I would dscan to see if someone was running them and warp in on them - usually in a t1 frig but some other stuff as well. They would usually bail and I would rarely want to stay to finish the plex. (if the system was busy enough and the timer had been run down I might stick it out a bit) If they fought and I won I would rarely stay to finish the plex. From a pvp perspective my time was always better spent moving on to the next system instead of sitting there orbitting the button hoping someone will notice me. But of course 99% of the enemies who would fight me, never even knew I was there so why sit there? Sure someone might roll in but I found I got more fights by leaving the plex than staying.
My point: there is a trade off of how much pvp you get versus how much occupancy you gain. I think reducing that trade off as much as possible would be good.
I am not at all surprised you or other Galllente have plexing alts. I have seen them around the warzone and since the gallente alts are often dplexing relatively low contested systems I know they aren't farmers from people unconnected with faction war. I think I am different from most people because I care more about the effect alt plexers have on occupancy than the isk they get or don't get. If gallente didn't have alt plexers they would be lucky to be at tier 2. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:37:00 -
[149] - Quote
Dread Delgarth wrote:All this moaning about defensive plex alts is a bit lame IMO.
It's like complaining PL are only successful because they have so many cyno alts.
There is no accounting for taste.
If you think running defensive plexing alts is fun then you won't mind the current mechanics that make them so important to fw occupancy. I don't like it, and I think very few people do.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2491
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:52:00 -
[150] - Quote
Cearain wrote: My point: there is a direct correlation between much pvp you get versus how much the other side thinks they can win. Fixed. PvP usually drops off significantly when the other side decides they can't win. Nothing you can do about it tbh. If one side goes for the throat and overships to win FW, then fights are going to drop off.
We knew that going in, and sometimes going for the win is worth the decrease in PvP. You'll see some in Gallente Militia complain about it, but it's not like we're bent on destroying the warzone for months - just a few days.
Caldari will be back, and I hope they try to kick us in the throat. The game is more fun when both sides don't let up.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |