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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
418
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:52:00 -
[151] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:There is no war in FW. Not anymore, no. We won the war, let peace reign!
Quote:CCP is right - there can only be warfare in EVE if it is player driven.
So all the changes CCP took are measured in only one direction - constant warfare amongst them players. All CCP can do is create incentives. Players decide what goals to pursue and how.
I'm all for CCP making changes to the various incentives to drive more conflict - it's why I"m in FW instead of dullsec.
Quote:Whining about lack of BC/BS fights This is driven by a few different things:
1. Bored nullbears dropping on everything shiney because they blued themselves into boredom 2. Travel speeds on BC/BS now so much slower, making travel around the WZ a pain 3. Lack of objectives that require a BC/BS gang to complete EDIT: 4. Other hulls being made more effective and more fun for less isk/skill investment
You still see them, quite often too, at least in our WZ. Yours is hosed for a lot of other reasons, don't generalize your experience to all of FW. It's not applicable.
What you ought to be focusing on, IMO, is why the Min/Amarr zone is so different from the Cal/Gal one. We're obviously playing different games, even though we've both got the same rulebook. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
103
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:53:00 -
[152] - Quote
As I was in cal mil the biggest part of cal mil simply refused to plex - it was useless to explain the mechanic to them.
They only came to the mili to fight.
That was stupid in an occupancy point of view - but pertinent in a gamers point of view.
The gamer lost in the long run, of course. The only thing that stayed was the farmer. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
418
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 18:54:00 -
[153] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:As I was in cal mil the biggest part of cal mil simply refused to plex - it was useless to explain the mechanic to them.
They only came to the mili to fight.
That was stupid in an occupancy point of view - but pertinent in a gamers point of view.
The gamer lost in the long run, of course. The only thing that stayed was the farmer. This is not my experience, speaking as one who's been shooting them constantly for the past year or so. Again, you're wrong, simple as. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2491
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Posted - 2014.08.28 18:58:00 -
[154] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:The gamer lost in the long run, of course. The only thing that stayed was the farmer. Yeah whatever. We're generating more kills now than we ever did before. The difference between then and now are: 1. BCs don't rule the game (rebalancing efforts) 2. BS's cost too damn much - Domis used to be 42mil. Now they are 200 mil. 3. All large ship fleets are really just targets waiting to be hot dropped nowadays. 4. Plexes have been skewed from Dessie/Cruiser/BC to Frig/(Dessie or T2 Frigate)/ T2 Cruiser. |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
103
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:00:00 -
[155] - Quote
My bad - I was in cal mil 2 years ago - I should have wrote that.
Believe me - we tried to explain why plexing is important - we did a lot.
Xgal,
we all know that. |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
344
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:15:00 -
[156] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:You might be astonished how many fights xg's alts generated him. Actually, none - but because it wasn't needed. The Caldari weren't really pushing the backwater systems hard enough. If the counter attack would have been sustained then we would have used alts as "Canaries (in a coal mine)" in that if a WT fleet came by we would then get a fleet up to go meet them. We did this one night and it worked out really well. BTW, this counter plexing technique was learned from PERVS a long time ago. But, again, it wasn't needed. Caldari were finally defeated in Asakai and the rest turned out to be the cleanup effort that all winning sides need to do to finish off their victory. (Of course this is 20/20 hindsight now. At the time we still expected heavier resistance in Heydieles, and perhaps an Amarrian intervention in Ladistier. But.... nothing....) Your honesty is appreciated. And I have used plexing alts to help get fights but I have found that to the extent I wanted to really use them to find fights they actually finished very few plexes. Thanatos Marathon wrote:Seems the way we play generates a lot more PVP than whatever you are doing, and yes, I have plexing alts. I am not doing anything to get pvp now. So yeah your likely doing more. My favorite pvp is/was in and around plexes. When I was after pvp I would go to busy systems open a plex and see if anyone would come. If not I would leave. Rarely would I bother finishing the plex. If I saw plexes open I would dscan to see if someone was running them and warp in on them - usually in a t1 frig but some other stuff as well. They would usually bail and I would rarely want to stay to finish the plex. (if the system was busy enough and the timer had been run down I might stick it out a bit) If they fought and I won I would rarely stay to finish the plex. From a pvp perspective my time was always better spent moving on to the next system instead of sitting there orbitting the button hoping someone will notice me. But of course 99% of the enemies who would fight me, never even knew I was there so why sit there? Sure someone might roll in but I found I got more fights by leaving the plex than staying. My point: there is a trade off of how much pvp you get versus how much occupancy you gain. I think reducing that trade off as much as possible would be good. I am not at all surprised you or other Galllente have plexing alts. I have seen them around the warzone and since the gallente alts are often dplexing relatively low contested systems I know they aren't farmers from people unconnected with faction war. I think I am different from most people because I care more about the effect alt plexers have on occupancy than the isk they get or don't get. If gallente didn't have alt plexers they would be lucky to be at tier 2.
Will it make you feel better to know that Andre and Andrea are my plexing alts and they have 100M and 40M skill points respectively? Do you still consider them plexing alts?
QCATS is recruiting:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3896299 |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 19:38:00 -
[157] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:You might be astonished how many fights xg's alts generated him. Actually, none - but because it wasn't needed. The Caldari weren't really pushing the backwater systems hard enough. If the counter attack would have been sustained then we would have used alts as "Canaries (in a coal mine)" in that if a WT fleet came by we would then get a fleet up to go meet them. We did this one night and it worked out really well. BTW, this counter plexing technique was learned from PERVS a long time ago. But, again, it wasn't needed. Caldari were finally defeated in Asakai and the rest turned out to be the cleanup effort that all winning sides need to do to finish off their victory. (Of course this is 20/20 hindsight now. At the time we still expected heavier resistance in Heydieles, and perhaps an Amarrian intervention in Ladistier. But.... nothing....) Your honesty is appreciated. And I have used plexing alts to help get fights but I have found that to the extent I wanted to really use them to find fights they actually finished very few plexes. Thanatos Marathon wrote:Seems the way we play generates a lot more PVP than whatever you are doing, and yes, I have plexing alts. I am not doing anything to get pvp now. So yeah your likely doing more. My favorite pvp is/was in and around plexes. When I was after pvp I would go to busy systems open a plex and see if anyone would come. If not I would leave. Rarely would I bother finishing the plex. If I saw plexes open I would dscan to see if someone was running them and warp in on them - usually in a t1 frig but some other stuff as well. They would usually bail and I would rarely want to stay to finish the plex. (if the system was busy enough and the timer had been run down I might stick it out a bit) If they fought and I won I would rarely stay to finish the plex. From a pvp perspective my time was always better spent moving on to the next system instead of sitting there orbitting the button hoping someone will notice me. But of course 99% of the enemies who would fight me, never even knew I was there so why sit there? Sure someone might roll in but I found I got more fights by leaving the plex than staying. My point: there is a trade off of how much pvp you get versus how much occupancy you gain. I think reducing that trade off as much as possible would be good. I am not at all surprised you or other Galllente have plexing alts. I have seen them around the warzone and since the gallente alts are often dplexing relatively low contested systems I know they aren't farmers from people unconnected with faction war. I think I am different from most people because I care more about the effect alt plexers have on occupancy than the isk they get or don't get. If gallente didn't have alt plexers they would be lucky to be at tier 2. Will it make you feel better to know that Andre and Andrea are my plexing alts and they have 100M and 40M skill points respectively? Do you still consider them plexing alts?
Fair point.
Thats why I use the term "rabbit plexer." Because rabbit plexers are set up to run from pvp combat. They might be mains they might be alts. They might be in it for isk and thus a farmer or they might be in it just for occupancy and therefore not really a farmer. I guess I really don't care so much, if they are alts.
I just don't think players who always run away from fights should be as effective as they currently are in the occupancy war. Most rabbit plexers are indeed alts. But sure if the alts stay and fight thats fine with me.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
310
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:00:00 -
[158] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
Fair point.
Thats why I use the term "rabbit plexer." Because rabbit plexers are set up to run from pvp combat. They might be mains they might be alts. They might be in it for isk and thus a farmer or they might be in it just for occupancy and therefore not really a farmer. I guess I really don't care so much, if they are alts.
I just don't think players who always run away from fights should be as effective as they currently are in the occupancy war. Most rabbit plexers are indeed alts. But sure if the alts stay and fight thats fine with me.
What if they don't run but stay and die in naked hulls cuz they are AFK and part of their income stream is selling kill rights? BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Samwise Everquest
Because ISK
77
|
Posted - 2014.08.28 20:35:00 -
[159] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:My bad - I was in cal mil 2 years ago - I should have wrote that.
Believe me - we tried to explain why plexing is important - we did a lot.
Xgal,
we all know that.
you are definitely right on that. people just look for fight and log. the people who dont need isk, which was apparently my alts entire alliance, would never be caught plexing. all in all FW promotes zergs and joining the winning side. it promotes farming instead of pvp. again fw is currently just a non meaningful perma wardec between a winning side and a losing side. noone in their right mind would NOT join gal mil. there is no reason not to unless you want to be the underdog.
edit: there is no logical reason to join calmil unless you want to fight an uphill battle. there is nothing to stop the entire player base from joining one side. that is a problem. |
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos
95
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 05:07:00 -
[160] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Veskrashen
We both agree simple math shows that you don't need home systems to take tier 4.
I'm being trolled right? Are you jumping your bash fleet in from hi-sec/non-fw lowsec and travelling 10 jumps to flip a system? Are you actually suggesting that Calmill position themselves around the edges of the map in isolated numbers and push in against our internal lines of defence? Do you know how far it is from Yvangier to Karjataimon? From Mara to Mantenault? Cearain, this is getting stupid and again your ignorance of both the important subtleties in FW and general strategic good sense is showing.
Cearain wrote:
Those are the goals set up by ccp. The rest like holding a home system are personal goals that anyone can strive for but there is no real mechanic incentive.
Aw ****, stop doing what you're doing because CCP didn't write in black and white that you should try and occupy the best systems in the warzone. It's called a strategic imperative, when the opposing militia lives closer to you, the amount of fighting in your home system you have to do goes up. When the activity levels in your home go up, more of your pilots are curtailed from roaming further afield, aka your area of control (effective control) shrinks.
The statement, that an opposing militia HQ system present does not increase resistance to efforts to flip the surrounding area, is patently, and obviously ludicrous. To argue that the presence of an enemy home base in the area wont have any effect on the contested rates nearby is again, stunningly myopic. Lest we even bring up pipe and gateway systems (Eha, Okkamon, Heyd, Kehjar etc etc.)
If you really want to get pedantic about this almost all of the CCP information on FW, and everything the common person would understand about "us versus them" strategy games heavily implies if not leaves as the only logical conclusion that you should indeed take all of enemy space. Our progress bar shows 371/606 for our measure of warzone control, "warzone control," fyi, is another way to say "your control of the warzone." How could having every system not be the ultimate fulfillment of "warzone control" or the apparent full scale 606/606? Your not just getting the in-game details wrong, but your analysis relies on incredible perversions of what everyone commonly understands strategy games to entail.
Cearain wrote:
And yes some are in enemy high sec space but again there is generally no problem bringing plexing ships one or 2 jumps in.
lol
Cearain wrote:
So from the perspective of pure occupancy gaining there are multiple places that anyone can base and have better access to these multiple border systems than your home systems would provide. Then its just a matter of grinding plex after plex after plex, for those with the will to do that. From there putting plexing ships in a few stations as you work in is not a big deal. Again if you are interested in plexing.
This is a really dumb tactic, coincidentally its pretty much what Calmill does and got them in this position to begin with. Again, see reference above to your need to actually look at the map of our WZ and to educate yourself on just the basics of strategy and tactics, aka, don't leave your forces in tiny isolated concentrations that can't support one another waiting to be crushed by someone who "gets" it.
Someone "getting it" is not "AHA Crosi admits alts have an effect!"
Here's the rub of the issue, none of us believe plexing alts have zero influence. We just don't take them to be the alpha and omega of our analysis, we prefer more robust frameworks that incorporate more than one causal explanation. For instance in about ten pages of your diatribe across three seperate threads, I doubt you have spared even a single paragraph towards the strategic decisions Calmill made throughout the year defending and taking systems, or even a sentence towards the fits and doctrines that Calmill use, this despite those reasons being the first proffered by the Caldari themselves. According to your own words, both the contours of the map and the amount of isk one faction uses are also irrelevant. The problem when you build a snarky worldview based on one metric and/or thought bubble is your theory lacks explanatory power, I have highlighted this issue below for you in much the same way an undergrad professor would.
Cearain wrote:
Well ccp boosted defensive alt plexing and that HAPPENED (???) to help the gallente defensive plexing alt army and stunted (why??) the caldari farmers. It wasn't an intentional boost to gallente by ccp - so no I'm not tinfoil hatting, and to be clear, I don't think ccp ever intentionally tried to help a particular miltia. But this change HAPPENED (???) to be good for the gallente defensive alt army and bad for the caldari alt army (why???)
The above paragraphs explanatory power is effectively zero if not purposefully misleading, yet it represents the capstone of your thoughts.
As to your random numbers about subscribers EvE has ever had, or attempts to appeal to the unverifiable majority, I again offer my own experiences. A big system siege last year would be 100 people in local, this year a big one is closer to 200 and some have sat in the 2-300 range for periods of the day. B-5 only had 2100 its self, FW corps remain littered throughout the top ten ranking on zkill for activity and I personally can't reship fast enough or have more fun. Its about defining your own content, I think the sooner you realize that, the less bitter you will seem to this forum.
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 13:55:00 -
[161] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote: Of course we keep deplexing alts on hand - that way we ensure our home systems and those being farmed in the backwaters don't get out of control.
I don't disagree with much, if any, of your post. For me what you say here is the issue. You fight alt plexing with alt plexing. As you said "of course" you do.
Thats why the occupancy war is not fun. The occupancy war should be won by pvp not having alts participate in a rabbit plexing race. Timer rollbacks push us toward an end to that. Other suggests work to end the rabbit plexing race you describe. You may think its "fine" now. But eventually most people who have been at this game long enough get tired of it. Few people get tired of the pvp.
And any gallente who want to say alts don't matter etc etc. Well I will look at what they do, not what they say. If they don't really matter then stop using them, and see what happens.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
1104
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 14:13:00 -
[162] - Quote
What you are complaining about is players, not game mechanics.
If people want to plex in pve fits and run away from fights there is nothing you or i can do to stop them - apart from forcing them to stay out of the plexes by having a presence there or getting better at killing them.
CCP could kill FW and remove LP from plexing, then station lockouts would be the only incentive to fight occupancy. No more farmers. All systems would be completely ignored apart from a handful of well placed station systems.
But i would rather take simple steps to curtail farmers, like dplexing alts, than drastic measures which make FW a less viable place to play for both new and old players. For me, any mechanic that puts ships in space has its fundamentals in order.
You obviously have some drastic tunnel vision that prevents you from seeing a bigger picture, i know pointing this out will not help. I dont even know if you care about the bigger picture, or if you have just become so focused on debating minutia for its own sake.
Sorry for disturbing you, ill let you get back to fixating on non/minor problems. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2006
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 16:44:00 -
[163] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.
The Rules: 30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 22:46:00 -
[164] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:What you are complaining about is players, not game mechanics.
If people want to plex in pve fits and run away from fights there is nothing you or i can do to stop them - apart from forcing them to stay out of the plexes by having a presence there or getting better at killing them..
I don't blame the players for playing this game however they like. It is a sandbox.
But CCP can and does change the mechanics to encourage certain behavior an discourage other behavior. For example, they wanted offensive plexers to have weapon systems so they required the rats to be killed. You could still enter the offensive plex without the ability to do damage but you won't accomplish much.
Here I want them to encourage the behavior of staying and fighting for a plex instead of just running and hiding in a new system to plex.
With timer rollbacks yes, of course, people can still use pve fits and warp out. But they will then lose time on the plex. Thus that behavior will have a disadvantage relative to the person who stays and fights. I'm not trying to completely prevent behavior like a bubble that prevents warping. I am trying instead to start weighing the occupancy war more in favor of the pvpers. This means that corps who fight for occupancy will value a good pvper more than a person who just has multiple accounts and rabbit plexes.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: CCP could kill FW and remove LP from plexing, then station lockouts would be the only incentive to fight occupancy. No more farmers. All systems would be completely ignored apart from a handful of well placed station systems..
You know I think I am about the only person who doesn't really care that much about how much isk/p is in fw. I used to care more but not really anymore. I have done plexing with lp, and without, and on the whole I think adding some lp was an improvement. But really how much lp for this or that and at what tier really doesn't concern me. I just want the game the occupancy war to be fun. And for me that means to make it a pvp haven. If we can gain isk in the meantime great if not then I would buy plex or do something else to support my pvp. As someone who has been playing this game for years I have more isk than worthy things to spend it on.
I am much more interested in how fun the game is to play than how much isk I can make. If I am having a blast playing the game then I am glad to spend an extra 20 bucks every now and then to buy a plex and get more ships.
BTW I dont think gallente won due to "farmers." I know the plexers were often in low contested systems that really don't pay much.
Crosi Wesdo wrote: But i would rather take simple steps to curtail farmers, like dplexing alts, than drastic measures which make FW a less viable place to play for both new and old players. For me, any mechanic that puts ships in space has its fundamentals in order.
You obviously have some drastic tunnel vision that prevents you from seeing a bigger picture, i know pointing this out will not help. I dont even know if you care about the bigger picture, or if you have just become so focused on debating minutia for its own sake.
Sorry for disturbing you, ill let you get back to fixating on non/minor problems.
No problem your entitled to your opinion and I have thick skin.
Yep I want more than ships in space. I want more fighting and less warping around.
I think you miss the big picture, when you wring your hands over how much isk this or that activity brings. Isk can only be used in game. If there is nothing fun to do in the game than what is the point? My focus is on making fw more fun and less about creating alts to rabbit plex. For me the funnest thing in eve is the pvp in and around plexes. So mechanics that encourage that are what I push for. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
1108
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 23:03:00 -
[165] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Nothting of substance
No, you missed the point, i and most of the people i fly with are playing hard and having fun (with a few notable exceptions).
We are doing this with the same mechanics as everyone else.
I think its time you look within. |
Mister Tuggles
Faceless Men
92
|
Posted - 2014.08.29 23:33:00 -
[166] - Quote
Amusingly enough... with all the farming going on there is still more fighting in FW/low sec than in Null. Hell, one member of my FW alt's corp had over 500 kills in one month.
God how I loathe nullbears.... |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 03:07:00 -
[167] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:Cearain wrote:Veskrashen
We both agree simple math shows that you don't need home systems to take tier 4.
I'm being trolled right? Are you jumping your bash fleet in from hi-sec/non-fw lowsec and travelling 10 jumps to flip a system? Are you actually suggesting that Calmill position themselves around the edges of the map in isolated numbers and push in against our internal lines of defence? Do you know how far it is from Yvangier to Karjataimon? From Mara to Mantenault? Cearain, this is getting stupid and again your ignorance of both the important subtleties in FW and general strategic good sense is showing.
Answers in order:
No, No, Caldari have to do that you kicked them out of all the other systems, Do you want that in jumps or light years?
I am not saying that people should never put ships in fw space. I thought I made that clear. You can have multiple bases with plexing ships.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 03:16:00 -
[168] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:Nothting of substance No, you missed the point, i and most of the people i fly with are playing hard and having fun (with a few notable exceptions). We are doing this with the same mechanics as everyone else. I think its time you look within.
Of course, you and the 50-200 or so others who care about the occupancy war to varying degrees are having fun. Otherwise you wouldn't be doing it right? Sasawong and his alt Sheltering Sky must have had fun orbiting buttons because they did that more than any player corp in the game. Otherwise why would he have done so much of it? I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. People like different things.
I'm just saying that for being a substantial part of a mmo 50-200 players who care is pretty bad. Don't you agree? Eve has over 500,000 subscribers and over 20,000 characters in faction war. And the entire warzone was won with very little resistance. I mean anyone who cared could see it coming. Yet very few from amarr or caldari even cared enough to get some guys together and try to start plexing some other systems down to at least keep you jumping around. The current rabbit plexing system is just too boring to care about. And how big were the gallente fleets on average? From the reports I am reading they sound extremely underwhelming for a game that often has battles involving 2000.
I am with the vast majority. You and those who think the occupancy game is worth playing are the extreme fringe.
The Catholic Church took a survey and asked their priests if they thought the celibacy restriction was too harsh. And of course the priests said it wasn't. Well of course they said it wasn't, if they thought it was too harsh they probably would not be priests. You have to look outside your little group at the bigger picture with this game. The bigger picture shows the occupancy war is not something people care about. CCP should really ask why people have such a low interest in this. With a few tweaks It could be a great reason to stay subbed.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2500
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Posted - 2014.08.30 05:14:00 -
[169] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Yet very few from amarr or caldari even cared enough to get some guys together and try to start plexing some other systems down to at least keep you jumping around. You mistake "care" for "didn't think they could win". For example, the Caldari cared enough to push fights to 1-2k kills/day in several systems before they finally gave up (after they convinced themselves that they couldn't win). If you can name another mechanic in this game that have lead to more fights in this game than the FW mechanic, then please do so. Until then, don't you think your time is better spent whining about all the other mechanics in this game that don't generate anywhere near the number of fights that the FW mechanic does?
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Samwise Everquest
Because ISK
78
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Posted - 2014.08.30 05:23:00 -
[170] - Quote
Over the past months many caldari casuals re-enlisted as gal because there was no incentive to stay t1 and out numbered. It didn't take long for people to realize there was no reason to fight against a zerg of rabbit plexers so might as well reap the rewards of t4 and the uncontested life. So in a way, CalMil beat Calmil. |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2500
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Posted - 2014.08.30 05:30:00 -
[171] - Quote
Samwise Everquest wrote:Over the past months many caldari casuals re-enlisted as gal because there was no incentive to stay t1 and out numbered. It didn't take long for people to realize there was no reason to fight against a zerg of rabbit plexers so might as well reap the rewards of t4 and the uncontested life. So in a way, CalMil beat Calmil. We welcome the fact that many separatists have decided to rejoin the Federation. Amnesty will given to all that join the Federation and help our cause.
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Samwise Everquest
Because ISK
80
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Posted - 2014.08.30 05:37:00 -
[172] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Samwise Everquest wrote:Over the past months many caldari casuals re-enlisted as gal because there was no incentive to stay t1 and out numbered. It didn't take long for people to realize there was no reason to fight against a zerg of rabbit plexers so might as well reap the rewards of t4 and the uncontested life. So in a way, CalMil beat Calmil. We welcome the fact that many separatists have decided to rejoin the Federation. Amnesty will given to all that join the Federation and help our cause. just sucks when people ruin the best part of eve. your idea of fw is to win by any means necessary even if that means taking in former competition as allies. different strokes for different folks but id like a more meaningful fw where its a constant struggle/balance between the factions and where taking over a system isnt something that can be done with an alt in a naked ship. I guess I want FW to work more like teams pvp than just pick w/e side is winning and farm the hell out of it.
I am starting to think the whole LP incentive needs to be taken out. pve should not be the deciding factor in a pvp teams environment. and yes FW generates alot of pvp but thats lowsec in general. its easier to get into smaller fights without bubbles and other bs mechanics. any newb can fly a frigate in lowsec and get in some pvp.
being able to switch militias in itself kills my immersion. as a mild RP (prefer gal ships and lore) it really pisses me off that my favorite faction is the zerg atm. i cant enjoy the game because of it. militia switching farming ******* get the **** out of GAL MIL. i am about to be FORCED into joining calmil just so i dont feel like a piece of **** for taking the easy rode and re-joining the winning side. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2500
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Posted - 2014.08.30 06:12:00 -
[173] - Quote
Samwise Everquest wrote: i am about to be FORCED into joining calmil just so i dont feel like a piece of **** for taking the easy rode and re-joining the winning side. Join a corporation in Templis.
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Super Chair
Project Cerberus Templis CALSF
657
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Posted - 2014.08.30 06:59:00 -
[174] - Quote
I have my gimp mask ready, do you? |
RonPaul Rox
Justified Chaos
44
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Posted - 2014.08.30 07:58:00 -
[175] - Quote
Samwise Everquest wrote:Over the past months many caldari casuals re-enlisted as gal because there was no incentive to stay t1 and out numbered. It didn't take long for people to realize there was no reason to fight against a zerg of rabbit plexers so might as well reap the rewards of t4 and the uncontested life. So in a way, CalMil beat Calmil.
Just to give an example, GalMil were still forming fleets bigger than my active alliance during burn huola where alot/most of galmil were. I remember a few specific instances where I felt like there was a zerg hatchery nearby because they could escillate their numbers out of nowhere while still maintaining a huge presence in a different warzone. zerg gonna zerg.
LP rewards for killing player ships should always be at T5 levels for everyone, this will encourage the real PvPers to stay and fight, even if they are on the losing side.
There were 10-15 of us in Huola tops, we were just very vocal about it on the forums
gallente have been outnumbered by Caldari since FW started, it never stopped gallente from defending their home systems.
IMO gal and cal were having pretty even fights until Bohica Empire joined us. Our regulars plus their ishtar fleets were admittedly overwhelming.
we are of course glad to have bohica with us, but maybe if you had welcomed them when they tried to join you, you wouldnt b docking in high sec right now.
yalls tunnel vision on rabbit plexing is funny, do you realize that caldari are WAY better known for this than we are?
http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL
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Arla Sarain
72
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Posted - 2014.08.30 10:09:00 -
[176] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:
we are of course glad to have bohica with us, but maybe if you had welcomed them when they tried to join you, you wouldnt b docking in high sec right now.
We were docking in highsec regularly when we had systems. You keep turning it around and saying "we lost cos we knew we couldn't win". It is a consequence of no one giving a left monkey testicle to hold a low sec station and in general the occupancy war. |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
50
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Posted - 2014.08.30 10:42:00 -
[177] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:RonPaul Rox wrote:
we are of course glad to have bohica with us, but maybe if you had welcomed them when they tried to join you, you wouldnt b docking in high sec right now.
We were docking in highsec regularly when we had systems.
well that explains why cal mil became irrelevant, doesn't it |
Arla Sarain
72
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Posted - 2014.08.30 10:54:00 -
[178] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:Arla Sarain wrote: We were docking in highsec regularly when we had systems.
well that explains why cal mil became irrelevant, doesn't it I guess if you fantasize that your self worth is proportional to how many systems you hold. |
Makrov Putin
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1
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Posted - 2014.08.30 11:13:00 -
[179] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Doctor Knuckles wrote:Arla Sarain wrote: We were docking in highsec regularly when we had systems.
well that explains why cal mil became irrelevant, doesn't it I guess if you fantasize that your self worth is proportional to how many systems you hold.
Conan said what's best in life is "to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women". So yes, it's about how many systems. All of them to be more precise. |
Lupe Meza
Hedion University Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2014.08.30 13:02:00 -
[180] - Quote
Don't have a dog in this fight but have been lurking a while. FW seemed the most consistent place to get some PvP and make some ISK. Particularly if you can't be logged in for 4 hours, 3 hours and 59 minutes to find a good fight, 1 minute for the actual fight.
I lurked around these forums for a few months to get a feel for what the scene was like here, to see which militia I'd have the best time in, not necessarily make the most ISK in, as I gauge my enjoyment of EvE not by ISK/Hr but by Fun/Hr. Of course you need ISK to stay in ships, but as long as I can come out ahead I'm good, I pay my sub cash.
Preface out of the way, and really not trying to take sides, but I'd like to point out there were numerous back and forth arguments when TEST joined CalMil a few months back. Test would wag their e-peens around, crowing about how they where winning the occupancy war, to which GalMil, some of the same in this very thread, said that occupancy and sov was irrelevant in FW, it was all about the kills and PvP.
Now fast forward to a sweep and occupation of the system and now CalMil is essentially being taunted with the same occupancy bravado TEST would use, by the same folks that argued so passionately that such metrics were meaningless. Is this to try to provoke a response to get more fights which have no doubt dried up? Or is it just hypocrisy?
I'm only asking because more and more in the waning months of my sub to this game I was drawn to because of the "sandbox" play and player driven content; I'm seeing more and more examples of the "sandbox" boiling down to kids hitting each other over the head with pails rather than making sand castles and flinging their poo at the walls and calling it content. "Look what I made! Content!'
Anyway, just so I understand the situation clearly. GalMil has completely taken over the CalGal zone and have now started in on deplexing the Amarr zone. With the influx of Cal defectors inflating the numbers, I've read that folks are now bleeding into Amarr space.
What happens if theoretically Amarr and CalMil have no systems? Aside from mass chest bumping off course. I mean when the smoke clears, and everyone is GalMil or Minny and cruising around raking in their LP, does FW now become a mini-"Blue Donut"? Or PvP is now just Null Alt Pirate Corps in Low rolling you with HAC/Guardian gangs or hot dropping you and you thanking them for it because that was the only fight you got that night? Why? Because the "enemy" is now either in your faction or just plain quit FW?
I fully believe that if you can't defend or fight for something in this game, you don't "deserve" to have it. If you can't be bothered to mount a counter offensive or defensive action you deserve to lose. However my one major gripe with FW is there is no motivation for sticking it out with a militia when things go bad outside of hubris. And yes, while EvE is this sandbox of infinite possibilities and poo flinging surface area, it is also a game. And a game usually needs at least some basic balancing mechanics. I never understood why time in a militia is not rewarded. It seems like you get rewarded for running missions after folks do the heavy lifting just fine.
You get rewarded for jumping on the bandwagon just fine. But actually sitting in that foxhole getting shelled for months when you can just put on the uniform is not. In fact, it is actually more pragmatic to do so outside of ego or pride. It would be nice if there was some "loyalty" mechanic to go with these loyalty points to offset sitting in T1 for a while based on your time actually fighting for a militia. And not just calendar time, I mean time spent fighting(even if you lose), plexing, missioning; some multiplier that increases as you do these things over time and then gradually over days resets when you stop.
But granted I'm just one of those annoying Non-FW that sits in the occasional plex and my knowledge of FW dynamics is nonexistent, so I don't know if things like this have been attempted before. From what I'm gleaning from the forum this could be headed in a bad direction for everyone so matter how elated some may feel in the moment. When the wolves eat all the sheep, what happens? |
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