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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Daylorim
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 12:33:00 -
[61]
But POS are a little like stronghold, isn't it? I think devs want it not to blow up in an unique strike, but rather to be besieged.
And, as far as I know, siege have rarely been fast and fun
*waits for the flame*
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Pastora
Russian SOBR Red Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.28 13:02:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Karl Shade DonŠt try to make this an LV thing. Our war with RA has given us an intensive lesson in the intricacies of POS warfare. The micromanagement allows a small number of players with sufficient supplies to lock sov in a system nearly indefenately.
This has nothing to do with RA and LV, because you have been doing the same, so hush there.
Again, forgeting about our current war, the current system gives a chance for smaller corps/alliances to get their own space in 0.0. If the territory owner doesn't like to have enemy POS'es in their system, lock down the system, camp it, whatever, but don't try to bend the game rules to your own advantage only.
Your proposal comes down to the following: 1. The attacker chooses when he attacks the POS. 2. The attacker puts the POS into the reinforced mode. 3. POS stays in the reinforced mode e.g. 20 hours, then the attacked has 40 hours time window to destroy POS. 4. The attacker again can choose the time it suits only attacker within these 40 hours time window, while the defender will have to sit 40 hours non-stop to be sure to keep the POS alive.
Only attacker wins here! Nobody else. All that you want is just jump to the POS, click F1,F2,F2,whatever..., jump out, jump back again when the POS came out of the reinforced mode, click F1,F2,F3... again. Done.
And don't play a saint here, even if the defenders would keep their fleet online at the POS all these 40 hours, you would never attack unless you got twice or three times more pilots then the defenders. You have proved it hundreth times.
If there is going to be any change implemented, make it so that the attacker has no idea when the POS is coming out of the reinforced mode, unless they have spies in the corporation that manages the POS in question, i.e. only corporation (NOT evn alliance) members can see when the POS comes out of the reinforced mode. _______________________________________________ If ifs and ands were pots and pans, I would grow mushrooms in my pants. |
Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.07.28 13:08:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Pastora
Originally by: Karl Shade DonŠt try to make this an LV thing. Our war with RA has given us an intensive lesson in the intricacies of POS warfare. The micromanagement allows a small number of players with sufficient supplies to lock sov in a system nearly indefenately.
This has nothing to do with RA and LV, because you have been doing the same, so hush there.
Yes, because it's basically THE viable tactic, and you need to use it. POSwars are static and boring.
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Obivan Efa
The Machines
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:17:00 -
[64]
War is not fun - it's hell... POS war static? POS it's not only protected tower - it's new logistical routes and convoy operations - this operations make possible blockades, hunter-killer operations, interceptions, scouting, ambush operations... All this brings a lot of action to different ship types and make usefull new ship formations... It's quite dramatic and dinamic to burst through blockade on ur damaged hawler and bring needed supplies... or hunt down such runner with ur fast frig. There are a lot of such examples.. And it's not static - it's different from stupid "jump and destroy" doctrine... It makes possible to diverse war operations.
If u don't like it.. Play as pirate and camp near Imperial space - killing all u see... ____________________________
Die, but perish! - viking's war-cry |
Anara Serraph
UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:48:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Your proposal comes down to the following: 1. The attacker chooses when he attacks the POS. 2. The attacker puts the POS into the reinforced mode. 3. POS stays in the reinforced mode e.g. 20 hours, then the attacker has 40 hours time window to destroy the POS. 4. The attacker again can choose the time it suits only attacker within these 40 hours time window, while the defender will have to sit 40 hours non-stop to be sure to keep the POS alive.
Only attacker wins here! Nobody else. All that you want is just jump to the POS, click F1,F2,F2,whatever..., jump out, jump back again when the POS came out of the reinforced mode, click F1,F2,F3... again. Done.
I see what your saying, denying the attacker the ability to know when the POS comes out of reinforced mode is a good way of balancing this.
I agree with what people are saying here that POS's should just be swep aside by a superior force but rather besieged.
So lets make it so POS's can actually be besieged: Have it so that Cyno fields cannot be set up with 500km of a online POS also people who log out within this perimeter will not return here when the log back in. Alow the option to warp to a POS at a distance about 250km which is outside the POS's defensive perimeter(if i recall correctly) but is also out of the attackers range so that the attacker can set up bubbles around the POS out of the range of its guns and try to stop the defenders from breaking the siege while the big guns attempt to take it down.
this would allow the defenders to decide the time that the POS comes out of Reinforced mode while giving the Attackers a better chance of stopping the defenders from refuelling the POS
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BrerLapin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 15:53:00 -
[66]
Agreed Anara, the point of a siege is to cut off the position.
Carriers make even locking down a system completeley a pointless task.
Defenders can jump into the pos even in reinforced mode through the shield (Historical note opening castle gates wasnt a easy or simple task).
& of course even if the POS is invulnerable the guns still function perfectly. Your actually better keeping the POS in re-inforced mode :D
Because 5 days is a helluva long time.
Originally by: Market Scanner Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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Jaabaa Prime
Dental Drilling Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.28 20:27:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Pastora Edited by: Pastora on 28/07/2006 13:07:33
Originally by: Karl Shade DonŠt try to make this an LV thing. Our war with RA has given us an intensive lesson in the intricacies of POS warfare. The micromanagement allows a small number of players with sufficient supplies to lock sov in a system nearly indefenately.
This has nothing to do with RA and LV, because you have been doing the same, so hush there.
Well said, I've been playing long enough to know that we or any other corporation or alliance in EVE can use the same tactics.
Originally by: Pastora
Again, forgeting about our current war, the current system gives a chance for smaller corps/alliances to get their own space in 0.0. If the territory owner doesn't like to have enemy POS'es in their system, lock down the system, camp it, put extra POS'es at other moons, whatever, but don't try to bend the game rules to your own advantage only.
Laying siege to a system and locking it down used to work pre-jump drive capital ships, it was and still is very time intensive, but when all the defender has to do is jump in a carrier full of fuel directly to the POS requiring the fuel it makes the siege pointless. The current POS warfare mechanics were designed pre-jump drive and there has to be a change somewhere to allow for this.
Originally by: Pastora
Your proposal comes down to the following: 1. The attacker chooses when he attacks the POS. 2. The attacker puts the POS into the reinforced mode. 3. POS stays in the reinforced mode e.g. 20 hours, then the attacker has 40 hours time window to destroy the POS. 4. The attacker again can choose the time it suits only attacker within these 40 hours time window, while the defender will have to sit 40 hours non-stop to be sure to keep the POS alive.
No, the 20 hours reinforced would stay as they are atm. If the defenders need 20 hours to get a defensive fleet together and decide for 20 hours of reinforced then they would have to defend it for 20 hours, agreed. But if you decide for 3 hours of reinforced, then you only have to defend it for 3 hours after it comes out of reinforced. before you are able to restock the strontium reserves.
Originally by: Pastora
Only attacker wins here! Nobody else. All that you want is just jump to the POS, click F1,F2,F2,whatever..., jump out, jump back again when the POS came out of the reinforced mode, click F1,F2,F3... again. Done.
Not really, it is extremely hard engaging a POS when there are defenders there, as has been proven on quite a few occasions.
Originally by: Pastora
In my opinion, EVE deserves more than that >> some brain usage and micromanagement, yes.
Hence this discussion.
Originally by: Pastora
And don't play a saint here, even if the defenders would keep their fleet online at the POS all these 40 hours, you would never attack unless you got twice or three times more pilots then the defenders. You have proved it hundreth times.
Even with 2-3 time the numbers, engaging a large "death star" POS is a dangerous thing to do when the defenders are there to assist the POS.
Originally by: Pastora
If there is going to be any change implemented, make it so that the attacker has no idea when the POS is coming out of the reinforced mode, unless they have spies in the corporation that manages the POS in question, i.e. only corporation (NOT evn alliance) members can see when the POS comes out of the reinforced mode.
I like it, removing the timer and just saying "REINFORCED" is a cool idea and should also be added to the mix.
Another thing that was suggested was that a POS that is put into reinforced mode should have it's sov timer reset to the full 5 days. I like the idea of the reset, but I think id should only be for 24 hours. --
Mini Skill Planner |
KilleR 004
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Posted - 2006.07.28 23:15:00 -
[68]
It is unfair how literally just 5/6 people can keep control of a system which has hundreds of people in it setup for pvp. |
BrerLapin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 23:34:00 -
[69]
Originally by: KilleR 004 It is unfair how literally just 5/6 people can keep control of a system which has hundreds of people in it setup for pvp.
/signed
Originally by: Market Scanner Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.07.29 03:01:00 -
[70]
Then you need to consider fundermental changes to the POS mechanic. Like moving the guns outside the shield.
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Obivan Efa
The Machines
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Posted - 2006.07.29 08:35:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Obivan Efa on 29/07/2006 08:36:19
Originally by: KilleR 004 It is unfair how literally just 5/6 people can keep control of a system which has hundreds of people in it setup for pvp.
Hahahaha.... Use 100 pilots with 10 dreads and 5/6 defenders will not be able to do smth... That's the point of dread's war. If u have 100 pilonts and u can't kill 1 POS with 5-6 defenders maybe u should mine low resources in Jita - not to take other ppls in...
P.S. Post with ur main ____________________________
Die, but perish! - viking's war-cry |
Papa Digger
REUNI0N Red Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.29 13:19:00 -
[72]
Originally by: KilleR 004 It is unfair how literally just 5/6 people can keep control of a system which has hundreds of people in it setup for pvp.
Who can bring more energy? 100 stoker with coal or 5 operators of nuclear station? Or you think, if battle winer will be those who bring more blob than opponent, game will be more interesting?? Maybe just remove POSes at all? Just bring 100 man in local and say "CLAIM IS MINE". Your changes just give full advantages to attacker and all. Time to strike, 25% shield without resists, and PLENTY time to finish POS. All POSes will be senseless with your changes. ---- CEO. |
BrerLapin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.29 14:55:00 -
[73]
Edited by: BrerLapin on 29/07/2006 14:56:55 I dont understand why pos guns arent already out of the shield. If defenders cant fire out, how can the guns. Psuedo babble would say shield affinity, if the POS guns can be timed to fire through the shield why cant defenders ?
By the same token give hacking a role, allow a stealthed cloaker to approach & hack the shield allowing the attacking fleet to fire on the POS guns, but not the pos.
Actually while were on it that doesnt fix 6 people being able to defend against 100+. If it were me Id remove POS guns entirely & allow the defenders to shoot out.
Originally by: Market Scanner Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.29 15:10:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Anara Serraph As im sure you see the problem with the current system is that the defender can exploit the fact that you have to go to work tomorrow and while thats ok for the people who dont have to go to work for those of us who do there has to be a solution (other than syaing up all night and going to wotk tired)
Attacker can "exploit" the fact, that defender goes to work at some time. Its balanced. Taking out POS consists of two parts - to reinforced and out of reinforced. In first stage, attacker chooses time. In second stage, defender chooses time (if he was at the right time in POS to correct the stront ammount). So, euther side has two battles in chosen time or two battles in wrong time. --- Bookmark improvements Player owned brokers |
Jaabaa Prime
Dental Drilling Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.30 09:33:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Its balanced.
It's not balanced when 200 players lock down a system and it is still possible to refuel POSs using capital ships jumping past the camp.
This is something that changed the way POS warfare is done and massively inbalanced it in favour of the defenders. --
Mini Skill Planner |
Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.30 09:48:00 -
[76]
You shuld not be locking the system, but killing the POS at the moment of out-of-reinforced. It shuld be low on shields and without comparable fleet defending, shuld be dead soon, and refualing is possible after shield is on 50%, no? --- Bookmark improvements Player owned brokers |
BrerLapin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.30 10:19:00 -
[77]
Carrier jumps in exits field reps POS wash rinse repeat.
note the carrier is under no threat as it can reneter fields & the POS guns are still online.
Originally by: Market Scanner Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.30 10:49:00 -
[78]
Soooo I undestand now carrier can lock tower being inside shields? And it regens shields instantly, faster then 200 ships can damage them?
Thats a freakin deadly carrier :)
(We have 3 POSes to take out and I really hope You're wrong). --- Bookmark improvements Player owned brokers |
Komolov
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.01 10:44:00 -
[79]
Jaabbaa definitely won his cookie as a top whinner of that forum.
Why to type sooo much? Just kindly ask CCP to consider RA membership as an exploit and finally win by banning all of us from that game.
If you do not wish to show dedication and willpower and login whenever it's neccesary to have the job done - you do not deserve to be able to achieve a victory. --------------------
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BrerLapin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.01 19:44:00 -
[80]
Ellaine - The carrier exits the shields, but bearing in mind you cant have your dread fleet online 23/7. & its problematic being on at 4am for people with jobs & lives.
Originally by: Market Scanner Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.01 20:07:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 01/08/2006 20:07:55 You have to be there in exact moment when POS goes off reinforced, not 23*7. This may, and probably will be a very unfortunate time for You, fact simply has to be taken in account when planning n attack - better it goes ofline on weekend unless You have enough RL jobless dread pilots. From the other side - if defender wuld want to prevent POS going to reinforced and loosing put access to hangars, industrial capabilities, ability to use missles and EW arrays, and power of keeping sovereignity, he wuld need to be there at exact time of Your attack. Wich, most likely, was in very unfortunate hours for him.
--- I do not advocate this because I defend my POS, just the oposite, we have serious problem with people defending their POSes with deadly efficiency. I simply think, that the system is rather fair. --- --- Bookmark improvements Player owned brokers |
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