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Terminator Cindy
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.25 10:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
We have a faction large turret ( shadow large railgun ) with plutonium; theoretically optimal range should be around 200km. Still, when testing it against a non-moving battleship at that range, the damage is REALLY small. The sig resolution for that faction gun is about the size of the battleship, so it should deliver full damage. Anything we are doing wrong ? |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
1308
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Posted - 2014.08.25 10:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Terminator Cindy wrote:We have a faction large turret ( shadow large railgun ) with plutonium; theoretically optimal range should be around 200km. Still, when testing it against a non-moving battleship at that range, the damage is REALLY small. The sig resolution for that faction gun is about the size of the battleship, so it should deliver full damage. Anything we are doing wrong ?
Falloff, ...yada,yada....
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turrets#Hybrid_Turrets
https://doc-00-ag-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/198nmvf7s7qfkful930parn2i87rqtd3/1408960800000/12123478940381564382/*/0Bymhje4Rma0GakpmX2x1bUM0ZFE?h=16653014193614665626
even more so... TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6547
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Posted - 2014.08.25 10:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems a little light on the details. Which one of the multiple large shadow railguns you had, what ship you had, what fit the ship had, what skills does the pilot have, what was the damage you did and so forth. The more details you provide the easier it will be for outsiders to spot the likely cause for the reported result. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
311
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Posted - 2014.08.25 10:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
And then we still have the random dice roll for wrecking and so forth, so actual dps encountered may actually be lower then average. |
Terminator Cindy
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
OK my mistake, i should have specified more clearly that i am talking about a POS turret.
Eugene Kerner wrote:Falloff, ...yada,yada....
At optimal range, it was my understanding that the falloff effect should be minimum.
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Seems a little light on the details. Which one of the multiple large shadow railguns you had, what ship you had, what fit the ship had, what skills does the pilot have, what was the damage you did and so forth. The more details you provide the easier it will be for outsiders to spot the likely cause for the reported result.
There is only one type of shadow large railgun battery. The battleship had 80-81% armor tanking against the damage types delivered by the plutonium ammo.
Baneken wrote:And then we still have the random dice roll for wrecking and so forth, so actual dps encountered may actually be lower then average.
On all tests the average of dps was much lower than expected. I mean, should it be possible for a regular battleship to solo tank 3 large faction pos turrets at optimum range ?! |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
448
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Terminator Cindy wrote:OK my mistake, i should have specified more clearly that i am talking about a POS turret. Eugene Kerner wrote:Falloff, ...yada,yada.... At optimal range, it was my understanding that the falloff effect should be minimum. Destination SkillQueue wrote:Seems a little light on the details. Which one of the multiple large shadow railguns you had, what ship you had, what fit the ship had, what skills does the pilot have, what was the damage you did and so forth. The more details you provide the easier it will be for outsiders to spot the likely cause for the reported result. There is only one type of shadow large railgun battery. The battleship had 80-81% armor tanking against the damage types delivered by the plutonium ammo. Baneken wrote:And then we still have the random dice roll for wrecking and so forth, so actual dps encountered may actually be lower then average. On all tests the average of dps was much lower than expected. I mean, should it be possible for a regular battleship to solo tank 3 large faction pos turrets at optimum range ?!
......BAHAHAHAHA
yes.
what, the X-large ammo didn't tip you off? Large POS guns are for CAPS.
Medum POS guns are anti-BS |
Terminator Cindy
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote: what, the X-large ammo didn't tip you off? Large POS guns are for CAPS.
What is the attribute that makes them less efficient against battleships ? Reading the specs and the forum posts i take it is sig resolution. which for regular X turrets is 1000, and that makes them indeed inefficient against BSs. However for faction turrets it is 400, which is the sig resolution for regular medium turrets, so it should deliver full damage to smaller targets. That is what makes faction turrets more valuable than the regular ones. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24084
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Terminator Cindy wrote:OK my mistake, i should have specified more clearly that i am talking about a POS turret. That makes quite a differenceGǪ
Sig radius 2,000m Tracking speed 0.00154 rad/s.
Against a battleship-sized target, the effective tracking is 0.000308 rad/s GÇö even at optimal range (180ish km), the ship only has to move at 60m/s to outtrack the poor thing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Terminator Cindy
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Terminator Cindy wrote:OK my mistake, i should have specified more clearly that i am talking about a POS turret. That makes quite a differenceGǪ Sig radius 2,000m Tracking speed 0.00154 rad/s. Against a battleship-sized target, the effective tracking is 0.000308 rad/s GÇö even at optimal range (180ish km), the ship only has to move at 60m/s to outtrack the poor thing.
Sig resolution 400. sig radius for a BS around 400 also
http://eve.battleclinic.com/calculators.php#tracking
at 60 m/s it is 51.81 chance to hit.
Doesnt matter - in our tests always hits and the BS does not move. It just hits with a VERY small amount of damage. |
Grimpak
Shifting Sands Trader Cartel Bleak Horizon Alliance.
2304
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
*sigh*
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Plutonium_Charge_XL
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Shadow_Large_Railgun_Battery
now if stats are correct, 48 (turret damage mod) x (48 + 40) which is the raw damage done, sans resists, by a plutonium XL slug. that gives 4224 raw damage against anything unresisted.
you said you had about 80% avg resists vs the damage type, which means you're actually doing 20% of that damage.
well, if calculations are correct, which in this case, me being a total math dofus means they might not be, that means you need to multiply 4224 by 0.2 (20%), that means your ship is receiving a bit more than just 844 damage out of the total 4224 damage that turret can deal vs unresisted targets.
these turrets also have a 14 sec ROF, which means that you go and grab that 844 damge and divide it by 14.
whoop-de-doo, I'm getting a bit more than 60 dps here [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24084
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Terminator Cindy wrote:Sig resolution 400. sig radius for a BS around 400 also D'oh. Quite right. I was looking at the wrong stat. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Terminator Cindy
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:whoop-de-doo, I'm getting a bit more than 60 dps here
That is what i mean. Full damage from a large turret is 60 dps ? you cannot kill a BC with that let alone a supercap which is what they are supposed to be made for :)
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Grimpak
Shifting Sands Trader Cartel Bleak Horizon Alliance.
2305
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
wait, did CCP actually changed rails back when they made that rebalancing pass a couple years ago or so?
also, you don't usually use rails. their extreme range isn't really that useful, afaik. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
randomly named no tax corp v2
5
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Are you remembering the gun distance is calculated from the tower itself, regardless of where the gun battery actually is? Could be 30ish km difference that way. |
Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1382
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Posted - 2014.08.25 11:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
POS are pretty terrible for defenses.
The guns do so very little damage. Takes 4 guys manning POS guns, webs and points to even killa a scythe.
If you manage to kill anything bigger, it usually went AFK (for an hour) *signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums* |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12782
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
There has only ever been one POS that was deadly and that was the skynet tower a few years ago. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
293
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Posted - 2014.08.25 16:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Some things:
1. POS guns are generally terribad. They haven't been adjusted since they were first released, and the EHP of ships has been steadily climbing since then.
2. POS guns are mis-labelled. Small POS guns are cruiser-sized weapons, Medium POS guns are battleship-sized weapons, and Large POS guns are capital-sized weapons. This means that there are no anti-frigate guns (just cruiser guns and webs) and that Large POS guns are pretty much worthless in hisec because you'll never see a target big enough for them to effectively hit.
3. You say that your battery has a signature resolution of 400m, but I would bet money that this is a typo and is actually 1000m like other large turrets. Still, this doesn't explain why you are having such a hard time hitting a stationary battleship within your battery's optimal range. I'm kind of at a loss here.
4. Despite still being overall bad, unbonused projectile turrets are better than bonused hybrid turrets. Swap out your hybrid turret batteries for projectiles, and you'll be much happier. (Unbonused ACs are generally better than bonused pulse lasers because of their falloff, but bonused beam lasers are about on par with unbonused projectiles.)
5. Do not, under any circumstances, use missile batteries. They do, roughly, a whopping 20 DPS each to stationary battleships, and they also shut down when the tower is reinforced, unlike every other gun battery.
Unless you're working with a large Deathstar POS (which I doubt, otherwise you wouldn't be here asking), I would stick to small and medium guns. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24088
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 17:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
294
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tippia wrote:What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. Doomsday* Batteries?
I like it....
*Old-school AoE, make all yer fleet BSs fit two plates and obscene resists Doomsday, not the targeted capital-killers we have now. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Kestrix
Swords To Ploughshares Vanguard of the Phoenix
139
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
When setting up a large tower I don't worry too much about the guns. Some medium and small. I get the shield resists up as high as possible and then put up as many ECM battery s as I can.
If attacked any POS is going down, what I aim for is to make that process as long and painful as possible and hopefully people will overlook my POS in favor of another less well defended tower.
Up to now it's worked as none of my towers I've owned in the past have been attacked. |
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Prince Kobol
2079
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
PoS guns are under powered across the range.
I've taken out well defended PoS in HS using nothing more then 5 domi's + sentries and a couple of logi's.
As for low / null sec, there is zero point putting any kind of defences up as a small group of dreads will obliterate them, just a waste of isk and time.
As another posted as stated, ECM and Shield resists are much more effective as they are a lot more annoying. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
295
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Posted - 2014.08.25 17:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:When setting up a large tower I don't worry too much about the guns. Some medium and small. I get the shield resists up as high as possible and then put up as many ECM battery s as I can.
If attacked any POS is going down, what I aim for is to make that process as long and painful as possible and hopefully people will overlook my POS in favor of another less well defended tower.
Up to now it's worked as none of my towers I've owned in the past have been attacked. Given the state of POS guns, the order of prioritization in my mind is:
1. Tower. 2. What you're doing with said tower. (Labs, moon harvesting, factories, etc.) 3. Resists. 4. ECM. 5. Scrams/webs/damps. 6. Guns.
Leaving any resist at zero is all but begging someone to come shoot you. Frustrating your attackers is, at the moment, more effective than killing them, but I do like to include some tackle and guns because, hey, you never know when a WT pilot in a faction-fit cloaky will forget to cloak while scouting you.... ;^) Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11327
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Posted - 2014.08.25 20:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Large POS turrets are really meant to do damage to capital ships. And believe it or not, all of a POS's large guns working in concert can actually put the hurt on. Saw a Naglfar go into low armor because he wasn't paying attention. Luckily he wasn't in siege at the time. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1232
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Posted - 2014.08.25 21:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Large POS turrets are really meant to do damage to capital ships. And believe it or not, all of a POS's large guns working in concert can actually put the hurt on. Saw a Naglfar go into low armor because he wasn't paying attention. Luckily he wasn't in siege at the time. I managed to warp off in 5% structure when I forgot to refit my blap dread on a tower with large guns. That chair will never be the same. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
849
|
Posted - 2014.08.25 21:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
pos guns without someone controlling them suck.
In general if theay want your tower to die, its gonna die. In a room full of dumb blondes, EvE is the smart red head on the other side of the room.-á Lots of men like dumb blondes, and not everyone will like the smart red head, but she doesn;t need to change to be a dumb blonde.-á She is perfect how she is.-á Thats EvE vs other mmo's.-á You either like the red head, or you don't. |
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
randomly named no tax corp v2
7
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Posted - 2014.08.25 22:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote: 2. POS guns are mis-labelled. Small POS guns are cruiser-sized weapons, Medium POS guns are battleship-sized weapons, and Large POS guns are capital-sized weapons. This means that there are no anti-frigate guns (just cruiser guns and webs) and that Large POS guns are pretty much worthless in hisec because you'll never see a target big enough for them to effectively hit.
3. You say that your battery has a signature resolution of 400m, but I would bet money that this is a typo and is actually 1000m like other large turrets. Still, this doesn't explain why you are having such a hard time hitting a stationary battleship within your battery's optimal range. I'm kind of at a loss here.
Faction pos guns have a sig res one class lower than regular pos guns though.
iirc Domi large can do about 10k alpha each, track battleships no problem, and with pos gunners so common now after the skill changes ..... |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1483
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Posted - 2014.08.25 22:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tippia wrote:What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. What about POS bomb launcher arrays :) That'd defend against fleets without being overkill against single targets. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
713
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Posted - 2014.08.25 23:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
I just tested it on test server,
Navy Apoc 82% EM/ 87%Therm vs Dark Blood tower with all Large Beams and it was thumping the daylights out of me.
At 100 km, 600-1200 with wrecking hits in the 3600 range. At 200km it was dropping far more 1200 with 10% or so going in to the 3500+ range.
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
73
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Posted - 2014.08.26 00:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tippia wrote:What we need is obviously POS smartbombs.
Imagine the tears when someone resets password while fleet is in warp to pos and then awoxs the whole lot of them as they hit pos shields.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12793
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Posted - 2014.08.26 00:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Tippia wrote:What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. Imagine the tears when someone resets password while fleet is in warp to pos and then awoxs the whole lot of them as they hit pos shields.
Still not as many as when you get a small highsec pvp tower bashing corp land on a Dickstar. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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