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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
36
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Posted - 2015.11.12 22:28:21 -
[931] - Quote
neovita wrote: That's exactly what i wanted to try out, thanks for confirming the yet untested (by me) idea :D
your welcome
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
36
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Posted - 2015.11.12 22:32:01 -
[932] - Quote
Vargur wrote:did they make any changes to burner missions lately or my game is ******* up due to brain in the box.
Specifically i am talking about Anomic Team Hawk mission, for team missions I used to use Two LML Garmurs which worked quite well in the past, I took a 3-4 week break and tried doing one tonight but could not break the Bantam's reps without heat, when before they would break in 1-2mins without heat.
Is it just me or they changed something lately?
check
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=454677
ccp lebowski is on it
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Vargur
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.11.13 12:52:30 -
[933] - Quote
Ploing wrote:Vargur wrote:did they make any changes to burner missions lately or my game is ******* up due to brain in the box.
Specifically i am talking about Anomic Team Hawk mission, for team missions I used to use Two LML Garmurs which worked quite well in the past, I took a 3-4 week break and tried doing one tonight but could not break the Bantam's reps without heat, when before they would break in 1-2mins without heat.
Is it just me or they changed something lately? check https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=454677 ccp lebowski is on it thanks |
Tearavygh Quillam
Bye Bye Fat Rats
0
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Posted - 2015.11.14 22:45:40 -
[934] - Quote
Haha, just did the Anomic Base (4 dramiel) in a Brutix. It's as time efficient as in a Vigilant, but you don't need to buy a Vigilant, lol!
[Brutix, anomic base small blasters] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II
Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S [empty high slot]
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Tracking is an issue, hence the small guns! Antimatter works too, but the damage is more heratic because of the range penality, I believe. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1644
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Posted - 2015.11.16 04:26:48 -
[935] - Quote
Had some spare time so been playing around with the Generic T2 fitted Vengeance against the Angel Burner (Dramiel). I am still deciding on the way to go with one midslot mod.
[Vengeance, Angel Burner]
Explosive Plating II -or- EM Plating II -or- Small Ancillary Armor Repairer Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Small Armor Repairer II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket [empty high slot] Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
I have tried to do some basic comparisons on SISI but these missions now drop so rarely it can take up to an hour to get one.
The EM Plate version gives better tank on EFT than explosive but is more vulnerable to the wrecking shots. In SIS it seems maybe the Explosive version is safer.
I deliberately ran the Small Ancillary Armor Repairer version without charges for one test. It got the Vengeance down to structure before blowing up itself.
Anyone have thoughts ? |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2028
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Posted - 2015.11.16 05:27:22 -
[936] - Quote
Vengance was the preferred t2 ship when they first released them, although people quickly found out 90% web daredevils were good. Since you can't seem to decide between em/exp why not adaptive? And looks like there is just enough extra room to throw a small autocannon on the last high slot. Specific a-type platings are really cheap too.
does swapping a web for a painter help at all, or swapping rigor for flare? Probably a case where throwing it into the missile damage formula would probably just far easier than testing every possible combo.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
557
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Posted - 2015.11.16 08:34:00 -
[937] - Quote
I had a quick look at the hookbil and without testing it I'm not a huge fan of some of the numbers like the explosion radius on LM and the potential vulnerability to defender missiles because of the lowered speed. The semi locked damage is also not great. It might be a good alternative for the jaguar specifically though as both the range and the damage bonus is good there. I think the javelin Garmur with 3 ECM is probably better for the other three for now. Just need to figure out what's going on with the rockets that keep vanishing into the void.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2031
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Posted - 2015.11.17 00:46:40 -
[938] - Quote
yes the ECM polar rocket is probably (as in almost guaranteed) better, it also costs more. The hookbill is dirt cheap, has 5 mid slots, but does low dps. With the typical 2 ecm fits jams can be unreliable adding more ECM mods should make the jams more consistent which was the main motivation behind the fit. And coming in December: Hookbill: Change damage bonus to 25% Kin, 20% Em/Therm/Exp
as for dps and application I'm not terribly worried about it as you only really shoot the AF and that is usually the easiest to hit. and you aren't dps racing with reps as they got jammed out and should be 50km+ behind the fight. Yes the lower dps will mean it takes longer to kill it, but the extra ecm should mean you are shooting and eating through hp sooner.
no idea where the break even is, and to get a good statistical sample would take god knows how long. although we could probably make a good model to guess at it using chruker data. heck it might even suggest fitting a signal distortion amp as being a better idea then a bcu.
Although at this point I'm interested enough to actually go try it
@ChainsawPlankto
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
565
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Posted - 2015.11.17 01:25:51 -
[939] - Quote
This I think is pretty much the best garmur I could come up with for the time being until/if they fix the bug. The empty slot gets either a missile guidance enhancer for the Jag or a Signal amp for the other 3.
[Garmur, Burner - Unified] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System [empty low slot]
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I 5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Scourge Javelin Rocket Polarized Rocket Launcher, Scourge Javelin Rocket Polarized Rocket Launcher, Scourge Javelin Rocket
Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Small Warhead Flare Catalyst II Small Ionic Field Projector II
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1649
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Posted - 2015.11.17 02:41:52 -
[940] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote: Small Ionic Field Projector II
Why such a long targeting range?
Is that to get the ECMs on earlier and activated for longer?
Just curiosity as currently I am sticking with the LML version - for me having a 900 wrecking shot instead of 1300+ tends to give me a warm fuzzy feeling of security that outweighs saving a few minutes. |
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2033
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Posted - 2015.11.17 07:10:01 -
[941] - Quote
going on one test run the LML hookbill works! had both logi jammed within two cycles. however the dps made me want to cry. almost fell asleep while killing it. but you can totally kill a team burner with 89 dps. might be worth using if you are a newb and bringing a friend or something. Would be more interesting if there was a cheap way to get 2x bcus on it.
probably move over to a 3x ecm garmur build myself.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
565
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Posted - 2015.11.17 07:41:41 -
[942] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:going on one test run the LML hookbill works! had both logi jammed within two cycles. however the dps made me want to cry. almost fell asleep while killing it. but you can totally kill a team burner with 89 dps. might be worth using if you are a newb and bringing a friend or something. Would be more interesting if there was a cheap way to get 2x bcus on it.
probably move over to a 3x ecm garmur build myself.
You know, with 89dps you might as well use a kitsune I can get 83 cold with two 5% damage implants and a calefaction II rig. 88 with faction launchers
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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probag Bear
Xiong Offices
89
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Posted - 2015.12.11 20:30:33 -
[943] - Quote
So erm, the December release did something. Either burner remote repair got messed with, or defender missiles got removed. Pre-patch, my max-DPS Polarized Rocket Garmur couldn't break anything without ECM. Now, I just got on and ran a couple of Anomic Teams, and my Garmur kills the main Burner ship without any need to kill/jam the logi. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
928
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Posted - 2015.12.11 20:41:38 -
[944] - Quote
probag Bear wrote:So erm, the December release did something. Either burner remote repair got messed with, or defender missiles got removed. Pre-patch, my max-DPS Polarized Rocket Garmur couldn't break anything without ECM. Now, I just got on and ran a couple of Anomic Teams, and my Garmur kills the main Burner ship without any need to kill/jam the logi.
That is what is supposed to happen. It was broken. |
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
89
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Posted - 2015.12.11 21:07:47 -
[945] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:probag Bear wrote:So erm, the December release did something. Either burner remote repair got messed with, or defender missiles got removed. Pre-patch, my max-DPS Polarized Rocket Garmur couldn't break anything without ECM. Now, I just got on and ran a couple of Anomic Teams, and my Garmur kills the main Burner ship without any need to kill/jam the logi. That is what is supposed to happen. It was broken.
I refit from ECM Garmur to TC + TP Garmur. It punched through a Burner Hawk like a hot knife through butter: OH'd the entire time and the launchers barely got a chance to take heat damage. It may have been broken before, but this just feels unfairly easy. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
692
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Posted - 2015.12.11 21:35:12 -
[946] - Quote
The hawk is the easiest one of the 4 to begin with. The team burners are 'back to normal'.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.04
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
40
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Posted - 2015.12.11 21:38:24 -
[947] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:The hawk is the easiest one of the 4 to begin with. The team burners are 'back to normal'.
lol would write the same things ^^
the hawk can be done in 1:00 - 1:20.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2181
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Posted - 2015.12.11 21:40:00 -
[948] - Quote
That does seem a little too easy. It seemed like my garmur was breaking the hawk without an ecm, but I think it would be more efficient to kill/ecm one logi and then dps the hawk. Although I use my own cheap variant and not the 3x cn bcu version. the 3x cn bcu version with rage rockets might be able to?
I also feel like the hawk is the easiest one to kill. It's slow, has a low HP buffer and a good resist hole.
pre lml nerf the lml garmur could kill one logi and then kill the burner. had pretty similar dps to the polar rocket garmur with jav (I think?) so rage should punch through even harder.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
40
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Posted - 2015.12.11 21:46:40 -
[949] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:That does seem a little too easy. It seemed like my garmur was breaking the hawk without an ecm, but I think it would be more efficient to kill/ecm one logi and then dps the hawk. Although I use my own cheap variant and not the 3x cn bcu version. the 3x cn bcu version with rage rockets might be able to?
I also feel like the hawk is the easiest one to kill. It's slow, has a low HP buffer and a good resist hole.
pre lml nerf the lml garmur could kill one logi and then kill the burner. had pretty similar dps to the polar rocket garmur with jav (I think?) so rage should punch through even harder.
for me i kill 1 logi at hawk and enyo. 2 logi for the other ones. goin straight to a burner seems not douable. will test it tomorrow
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
692
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Posted - 2015.12.12 01:42:15 -
[950] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:That does seem a little too easy. It seemed like my garmur was breaking the hawk without an ecm, but I think it would be more efficient to kill/ecm one logi and then dps the hawk. Although I use my own cheap variant and not the 3x cn bcu version. the 3x cn bcu version with rage rockets might be able to?
I also feel like the hawk is the easiest one to kill. It's slow, has a low HP buffer and a good resist hole.
pre lml nerf the lml garmur could kill one logi and then kill the burner. had pretty similar dps to the polar rocket garmur with jav (I think?) so rage should punch through even harder. On the one hand the hawk burner can definitely stand to get a bit of a buff, a buffer one at the least but then you start homogenizing the burners even more. At least now it has 'character'? You can give it long range weapons, that will force a new build just for it (although I'll just switch to javelins I guess). Then of the burner will be less of a threat to brawler type builds since lower dps so that's not ideal either.
I mean if someone new to burners wants to ease themselves into it then I can suggest easy ones to do first and keep the hard ones like the Jag or the Worm for later. In the greater scheme of things finishing a burner in 1min or in 1min:30sec really doesn't make a huge difference as more time is spent in warp regardless.
Also you can't rely on getting the hawk burner over any of the others so you can't focus on farming just the hawk burner. *shrug*
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.04
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4845
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Posted - 2015.12.12 02:07:23 -
[951] - Quote
The thing I despise most about Burners is having to switch out from a battleship to a frigate or cruiser.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
693
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Posted - 2015.12.12 02:23:33 -
[952] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:The thing I despise most about Burners is having to switch out from a battleship to a frigate or cruiser. That's what I like the most Having a whole hanger full of actual, useful ships that I actually use to make isk with. But hay, it's ok, I don't like using alts all that much so there's something for everyone, even people who don't like playing the game
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.04
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4845
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Posted - 2015.12.12 02:24:59 -
[953] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:That's what I like the most Having a whole hanger full of actual, useful ships that I actually use to make isk with. But hay, it's ok, I don't like using alts all that much so there's something for everyone, even people who don't like playing the game Maybe what bothers me is that the fits required to complete the Burners are so far removed from reality. You're basically fighting Officer-fit Burners.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2182
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Posted - 2015.12.12 04:34:21 -
[954] - Quote
well the baseline is more or less high meta with implants and links, and on top of that CCP gave them some extra advantages as they are npcs and can't do things like manual pilot. Oh and since they are NPCs ewar doesn't work as normal, a tracking disruptor would just be gold on most of them. or neut them out.
@ChainsawPlankto
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probag Bear
Xiong Offices
89
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Posted - 2015.12.12 10:23:30 -
[955] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:I mean if someone new to burners wants to ease themselves into it then I can suggest easy ones to do first and keep the hard ones like the Jag or the Worm for later.
Off-topic, but I'm honestly curious: why is the Worm considered one of the harder rats? For me it's one of the burners where I can switch my attention away from the Eve monitor once I'm within blaster range, and just press F2 when I hear the cap alarm. I run a single, OH'd, X-type Kin hardener (~50mil>) and it's overkill by a very comfortable margin.
The only issue I can see is if you haven't played around with missiles in a while, and get 3-volleyed during the first 20 seconds, when you're burning at 4-5 km/s towards the missiles. I don't know if that's enough to kill you since I personally had the hardener OH'd my first time, but that's only a one-time lesson that you never have to worry about again, unlike wrecking shots from the turret rats (Daredevil / Jaguar for my fits).
It can't be the speed requirement either, since I run it without any speed mods/rigs/implants and only have to heat my web for 1 cycle. What am I missing? |
Gustav Mannfred
Summer of Mumuit
136
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Posted - 2015.12.12 10:52:27 -
[956] - Quote
Has someone actually tested something with the navy griffin for the non team burners?
[Griffin Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
5MN Microwarpdrive II BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Polarized Light Neutron Blaster, Void S Polarized Light Neutron Blaster, Void S Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I [empty rig slot]
Hobgoblin II x1
That ship does 375 dps and should be able to keep the npc permajammed, so I just can kill him without him ever being able to target and shoot me.
I actually hadn't tested that out, but I will on sisi
i'm REALY miss the old stuff.-á
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
40
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Posted - 2015.12.12 13:20:37 -
[957] - Quote
against worm it will not work. ecm range issue.
and remember if u fail to land a cycle the ship is toasted.
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probag Bear
Xiong Offices
89
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Posted - 2015.12.12 19:05:51 -
[958] - Quote
You would lose multiple Griffin Navy Issues per Burner mission.
Ignoring the fact that you will get alpha'd if you don't lock and jam immediately. Ignoring the fact that you'll have range issues on the ECM. Ignoring everything like that. You have a ~30% (0.66^3) chance of not successfully jamming with 3 OH'd ECM and ECM only lasts 20 seconds. That means you should on average lose at least one GNI per burner mission. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
480
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Posted - 2015.12.15 03:50:09 -
[959] - Quote
With the Gila nerf is it still recommended against the Ashimmu? |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1751
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Posted - 2015.12.15 03:58:56 -
[960] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:With the Gila nerf is it still recommended against the Ashimmu?
I have not flown it since the patch however you basically lose the BCU, which should have zero effect on the passive tank and (bearing in mind your main DPS is the drones) a pretty minimal effect on overall DPS.
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