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ISD Cyberdyne
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1563
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Posted - 2014.08.27 00:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Important Note: Before we continue, please note that any violations of the forum rules and/or abuse of CCP/ISD will be escalated to the Community Team for action. This thread is going to be for overall feedback and issue annotation, and will be communicated with CCP CT and Developers along with Fozzie's feedback threads.
Please adhere to the forum rules when posting!
That being said, since the announcement of Hyperion, many wormholers have been very disappointed to greatly disgruntled, to outraged by the changes proposed. Since the release, many wormholers have been even more impacted and wish to communicate their thoughts on Hyperion's release. You have options:
1) Find the appropriate Feedback thread atop this subforum for your feedback. 2) Post your overall/general feedback in this thread for escalation. 3) If you discovered a bug/exploit, submit a big report.
The following are the Hyperion Threads for Wormhole Feedback:
General Feedback: This thread [Hyperion Feedback Thread] Random WHs and the New Small Ship WHs [Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps [Hyperion Feedback Thread] Second Static for C4s [Hyperion Feedback Thread] Bookmarks and Bookmark Copying [Hyperion Feedback Thread] Scan IDs Consistent Across Downtime [Hyperion Feedback Thread] K162 Signatures Appearing on First Jump [Hyperion Feedback Thread] Wormhole Effect Rebalance
Now, I ask that all further feedback, concerns, or issues related to Hyperion's release and wormholes be limited to the feedback threads and this thread. All other threads related to Hyperion and feedback will be closed and redirected to this thread or the appropriate feedback thread.
As long as the forum rules are followed, this and the feedback threads will be relatively uncensored, except in cases where you guys are simply disrespectful, abusive, or inappropriate. Off-topic posts and trolling will be removed. I understand many are upset, and you should feel comfortable to communicate your concerns and issues, and if done in a respectful manner, it will be un-moderated for CCP to review and address. Please follow the rules, don't create rant/troll threads in reaction to this release, and post your concerns/issues in the appropriate threads.
Thanks! ISD Cyberdyne Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
429
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Posted - 2014.08.27 01:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Frig whs need some sort of hint on the k162 side. I suggest making the wh graphic much smaller similiar to the size of a crit wh. Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
241
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Posted - 2014.08.27 01:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:Frig whs need some sort of hint on the k162 side. I suggest making the wh graphic much smaller similiar to the size of a crit wh.
This. You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
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Winthorp
2640
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Posted - 2014.08.27 02:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
First question- Why are ISD's running feedback requests now? Isn't the job of an ISD to keep things civil and on track, when did you have development training.
My question isn't an attack on an ISD but a concern that this isn't a thread started by a CCP developer when we clearly have multiple Hyperion threads started by CCP developers and not ISD's to discuss these issues. |
Naglerr
235MeV Waterboard Comedy Tour
10
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Posted - 2014.08.27 02:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Can some Dev or ISD or someone please provide a timeframe for when to expect an official response from the Devs on the Mass-Based Spawn Distance issue? As many players have written well thought out posts identifying serious flaws in this new addition I feel that a response is warranted. |
poppeteer
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2014.08.27 02:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
But Falcon said .. oooh :because Falcon: gotcha |
Ahost Gceo
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
183
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Posted - 2014.08.27 02:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Anything other than the mass based spawns are going to be forgotten as a footnote. Not only is it the change itself that has angered people and given many a reason to discontinue subscriptions, but more importantly the way CCP has handled the outcry...particularly after the change took hold.
This is nothing short of scandalous in concerns of scale. Devs ignoring feedback, acting nonchalant, and now apparently they can't handle the lash-back themselves. People are now most angry about the way the company that has created the game is now treating the players. I for one have a massive bag of popcorn (it spawned 60km away from my mouth) ready to see how CCP handles the cleanup because make no mistake...there are a lot of subscriptions and revenue dollars hanging in the balance here. I'm a friggin' banana. |
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ISD Cyberdyne
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1566
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Posted - 2014.08.27 03:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:First question- Why are ISD's running feedback requests now? Isn't the job of an ISD to keep things civil and on track, when did you have development training.
My question isn't an attack on an ISD but a concern that this isn't a thread started by a CCP developer when we clearly have multiple Hyperion threads started by CCP developers and not ISD's to discuss these issues. To answer your question, since this one was directed at ISD, you are correct that part of our job is "to keep things civil and on track." This is exactly the point of this thread. Feel free to peruse the Wormhole sub-forum over the last many weeks at all of the threads about Hyperion that were locked for being rants, trolling, off-topic, et al.
To keep things civil, I create a single thread to direct everyone to a specific set of places and keep the sub-forum civil and on track. The ISD get typecast often as we are required to enforce the rules, and then many players see the ISD and assume we are there to lock the threads. This isn't the case, and it isn't outside our scope to create a thread to moderate a sub-forum and participate in the community.
Hopefully this answers your question, and honestly, I'd prefer that we not continue this discussion as it isn't exactly related to the concerns many players have voiced today and of late. Thanks. ISD Cyberdyne Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3712
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Posted - 2014.08.27 03:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Naglerr wrote:Can some Dev or ISD or someone please provide a timeframe for when to expect an official response from the Devs on the Mass-Based Spawn Distance issue? As many players have written well thought out posts identifying serious flaws in this new addition I feel that a response is warranted. pretty sure that date is sometime after hell freezes over but before I sing a duet with herrbert.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
kaimai
Die Elitaeren Brotherhood Of Silent Space
2
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Posted - 2014.08.27 06:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well my general feedback is that we had so many conncetions yesterday, that it was very hard to scout them all. With that bigger Corps and Alliances are in favor. And that was the beauty about WHs taht small Corps like mine were able to pvp and pve as we please. Maybe Yesterday was an exception but we will see how that effects our gameplay on the long run. I mean nobody in the right mind will do pve with 3-4 connections and those have 3-4 connections and so on. You might push out small corps out of j-space, if thats you plan then yay, you have done it! We will see if we can manage... so long
Fly safe o/ |
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
351
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Posted - 2014.08.27 06:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Naglerr wrote:Can some Dev or ISD or someone please provide a timeframe for when to expect an official response from the Devs on the Mass-Based Spawn Distance issue? As many players have written well thought out posts identifying serious flaws in this new addition I feel that a response is warranted.
If this change had been in place since the beginning would you still complain? Would changing it back to how it was before be as welcomed? What makes you think that combat on holes were ever a good idea? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3718
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Posted - 2014.08.27 06:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Would changing it back to how it was before be as welcomed? um, yes. yes it would. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
Winthorp
2640
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Posted - 2014.08.27 06:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Would changing it back to how it was before be as welcomed? um, yes. yes it would.
Sure back to the BS we had before, that would be so helpfull... Cause WH space is so great how it was, lol. |
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
34
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Posted - 2014.08.27 06:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
kaimai wrote:Well my general feedback is that we had so many conncetions yesterday, that it was very hard to scout them all. With that bigger Corps and Alliances are in favor. And that was the beauty about WHs that small Corps like mine were able to pvp and pve as we please. Maybe Yesterday was an exception but we will see how that effects our gameplay on the long run. I mean nobody in the right mind will do pve with 3-4 connections and those have 3-4 connections and so on. You might push out small corps out of j-space, if thats you plan then yay, you have done it! We will see if we can manage... so long
This was to be expected. I stated this somewhere else. Who wants to scan all that? Big corps might have their slave-newbies out for that and log in on demand, but...
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Angsty Teenager
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
547
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Posted - 2014.08.27 06:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
real talk
how garbage are the mass changes on a scale of 1-10
this will determine if decide to actually resub my alts in some randy C5
thx
edit: oh yea ccp, im not scanning your stupid frig holes can you just give us DSP probes back so i can filter them out. frigs are for lowsec, you're a huge nerd if you do frig pvp in wormholes. |
Elyas Crux
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
1
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Posted - 2014.08.27 07:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Can we get clarification on how connected Fozzie thinks W-space should be post Hyperion? Logging in immediately after the patch during AUTZ every new wormhole spawned simultaneously and each system appeared to have double if not triple the average connections. Is the number of active connections expected to reduce after a couple of days once the timers spread out or is this intended?
Also can this topic get glue? |
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
34
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Posted - 2014.08.27 07:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ok, did log in, scanned, scanned and scanned until: "Oh it's time to log!"
Hope we get isk rewards scanning down wormholes in the future since this seems to be the new pve content. No wait....I get my Marauder out and run some sites.
Whoever that gank-kiddie was having those ideas - try an arcade style game. |
Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
5
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Posted - 2014.08.27 09:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Seriously this thread might have some value if the feedback was actually part of the development process. If the last patch has taught us anything:
1. release WH mass change on sisi that gets discovered by player 2. quickly put together dev blog 3. ask for community feedback 4 weeks before release 4. release expansion whilst not addressing most of the feedback 5. ask for more feedback post-release cos trololol
I mean what could possibly go wrong with this expansion? /sarcasm |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
541
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Naglerr wrote:Can some Dev or ISD or someone please provide a timeframe for when to expect an official response from the Devs on the Mass-Based Spawn Distance issue? As many players have written well thought out posts identifying serious flaws in this new addition I feel that a response is warranted. Let's not forget about this.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything. |
Talaq
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
20
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
So you prefer general feedback here?
First i would like to point out, that the whole process of multiple threads and ignored feedback of numerous inhabitants of w-space, really it does not fill me with any confidence, just that we are shouting in an empty room, and when were are done we get a pat on the back with this thread.
My stance is pro change in w-space, as numbers in w-space were dropping, and things were stale, but changes to an old and working system should at least be discussed properly and that includes feedback and acting upon it.
Also where is the sweet with the sour, we have holes that act like gates now. increased times rolling, Swiss cheese systems which cater to a size ship which CCP likes to promote, but frankly does only cater to larger groups out side of w-space. Where is the incentive for new players to enter wormholes, this should be the main and imho most important part of any direction change.
I just don't see it, it doesn't reward players jumping into lower class wh, which later on makes them moving up or grow bigger, providing the content. numbers = content. And these changes don't accomplish that nor do we see a point to mixing things up without it.
Low-Class Diplomat
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1772
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Talaq wrote: Where is the incentive for new players to enter wormholes, this should be the main and imho most important part of any direction change.
I like the changes in general but i would like to echo this point. CCP need to add new exciting stuff to wormhole to give old wormholer something new to do and provide an incentive for other people to move in. +1 |
Winthorp
2642
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I like the changes in general
I have to ask when this changed as you have consistently complained about all of these changes?
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Enthropic
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
122
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Any more feedback needed? What else is there to be said in this or any other threads. Fozzy made his choice, he understands whats good for WH space, we do not. Falcon feels good about himself for a timely delivery of Hyperion. Everyone is happy, good job!
Not that anyone cares, but Im gonna play in W-space the way I did before and simply pretend that the mass-based changes didnt happen. If I find content in a connecting wh, Im gonna go through, if not, Im gonna log and try the next time I have some time to play. Collapsing can still be done, with just a bit more time and effort- which Im not willing to invest. Thus, I wont even try to close WHs anymore.
It wont take long before we get into a fight and either win or lose (more likely). If we lose, Im not gonna replace any of my ships/pods and simply move out (or wake up in station).
Good thing is then I wont have to spend any more plex on those alt accounts, as I wont be needing them anymore.
Still a win for me, I come out with more than I had when I moved in.
Loved WH space while it lasted (from Apocrypha until yesterday), Im sure others with more game time at hand than I have will be able and willing to adapt.
bye WH space, loved you, game on |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1772
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Rek Seven wrote:I like the changes in general I have to ask when this changed as you have consistently complained about all of these changes?
No i haven't. I have been saying from the start that i am happy with all the games including the mass based spawn change. The only thing that i have been concerned about is the small unlimited mass wormholes allowing massive blobs and the lack of any real new content. +1 |
kaimai
Die Elitaeren Brotherhood Of Silent Space
2
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
next thing: I cant see Moons in space anymore... Is that intended or a bug? Because i always look for offline pos, too shoot SMA or other arrays. And its a big intel to sit in front of a hostile pos while they form their fleet. Fly safe o/ |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
91
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Talaq wrote:So you prefer general feedback here?
First i would like to point out, that the whole process of multiple threads and ignored feedback of numerous inhabitants of w-space, really it does not fill me with any confidence, just that we are shouting in an empty room, and when were are done we get a pat on the back with this thread.
My stance is pro change in w-space, as numbers in w-space were dropping, and things were stale, but changes to an old and working system should at least be discussed properly and that includes feedback and acting upon it.
Also where is the sweet with the sour, we have holes that act like gates now. increased times rolling, Swiss cheese systems which cater to a size ship which CCP likes to promote, but frankly does only cater to larger groups out side of w-space. Where is the incentive for new players to enter wormholes, this should be the main and imho most important part of any direction change.
I just don't see it, it doesn't reward players jumping into lower class wh, which later on makes them moving up or grow bigger, providing the content. numbers = content. And these changes don't accomplish that nor do we see a point to mixing things up without it.
You can camp a high->Wh now with a vigi and a ceptor for riskfree killmails, just like all high>low gates, isn-¦t that good for new players? They don-¦t even need an orcachar for it. No more hours of explaining and perfecting how to get kills on those holes.
And yeah, it is not only a change to an old and working system but a change to one of the most basic mechanics in wormholespace: If you jump in and do not have polarization you can jump back home again. Now you can-¦t do that anymore. Unless you are really really lucky.
The following is in no way representive just a bit over one hour of scanning and giving it a try:
I undocked a highsecchar scanned one of the 3 holes on system and jumped into the first. 4 whs in this c3 one of the a frigsized. I kept jumping, scanning and bookmarking in a straight line until I hit a k-space end. That was 9 holes deep. Every other system before had at least 3 holes, about 50% had a frigsized non-k162. So even if all those holes lead to k-space afap it still would be a chain of about 30 j-space systems. More likely you could scan until your fingers bled. There are screenshots of huge chains prepatch, but this is ridiculous. No way to have any sense of location and destination without a mappingtool. No way a new player will be able get back where he came from.
Being able to copy 10 bookmarks at a time still needed 3 runs just for the straight line and the towers.
Of the a bit over 20 jumps my covertops was once within jumprange, never in decloakrange.
Then I took the other c3 from the same highsec. Results were pretty even but I gave up after 7 holes deep, 3 of them being frigsized. In chain one there were 3 in chain two 2 other scanners. Right after DT on a weekday when activity is the lowest.
Even without taking the jumpmass changes into account new and more holes has changed wormholespace in a big way. Good or bad, doesn-¦t matter it is huge change in practise while only small on paper. And then you add jumpmass to this...
Scouts, even with t2 cloak, will now not be only briefly on dscan most of the time but every time.
It feels like traveling through the Great Wildlands: No stations, noone in local and many gates everywhere.
The only way I can see people in lowerclasses run sites is with 3+ scouts or not just closing all holes in home but also in the static. So at least 30 minutes prepwork and you-¦ll be stuck with battleships in your static for the time. For homesites it doesn-¦t change that much, since there is little difference from rolling one hole to 3 or 4. So not that much of a problem for casuals in c4+ who only run sites once a week. Ofc those people will have a much harder time closing in with capitals now. Lowerclasses as a steppingstone for smaller corps with lower SP, sorry I do not see it anymore (esp. compared to 2-3 years ago). |
Pancake King
Unreal Realities
42
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:Frig whs need some sort of hint on the k162 side. I suggest making the wh graphic much smaller similiar to the size of a crit wh.
This.Not 100% sold on the frigate wormholes actually being anything but a pain in the arse, but no harm in them.
Otherwise, as a C4 resident, happy with all the changes. Having a C4 with C3/C4 statics means a lot of scanning, but that tends to be when the pew happens, so happy with that.
As a AU player, I LOVE LOVE LOVE sigs id persisting over DT.
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Endo Riftbreaker
Antioch Brotherhood
25
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'd like to echo the comments made by others about the negative impact to small/solo corps. The addition of so many new holes has made scanning and op sec a basic non-starter for any small group. I logged in yesterday, took one look at the 6 holes connecting to my system, the 5 holes connected to my static, and logged off.
The holes now are like swiss cheese, with each one having 5+ connections and 5 more connections in the hole you jump into. It feels like null-sec with a system that has 6 gates and no local! There's not a chance anyone in their right mind would take the risk to run some sites in this environment.
The feeling/lore of being lost/isoluated in W space is complete gone, it's just one giant interconnected parking lot now, with no one running anything and everyone POS'd up because you can't roll even 1 of the 6 connections you have.
For me, I'm a solo corp, I'll be running down my fuel reserves and then moving out of J space, and possibly leaving the game. WH's were the last place a solo operator could "claim" and defend/homestead a system, enjoy some PvP hunting/being hunted and make decent income. But I'm not here to be cannon fodder to the 150 people my home system is connected to on any given day, and I doubt many other low class WH inhabitants are either. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
1583
|
Posted - 2014.08.27 14:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Starting a thread, to tell us there are threads of feedback, after we have already given feedback and continue to do so, in other threads for feedback, and prefacing it with the rules of giving constructive feeback?
You have lost the battle at step zero. You shouldn't need to have this thread if the feedback was working. J's before K's. Sudden Buggery is recruiting w-nerds and w-noobs. Mail your resume in today! http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Pri Mark
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.08.27 15:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Starting a thread, to tell us there are threads of feedback, after we have already given feedback and continue to do so, in other threads for feedback, and prefacing it with the rules of giving constructive feeback?
You have lost the battle at step zero. You shouldn't need to have this thread if the feedback was working.
This +1
Just a way of censorship to stop a 100+ page threadnaught of folks complaining about CCP crashing ahead regardless of what their customers want.
CCP had constructive feedback but as usual took very little notice of it.
I've already moved out of the C4 I lived in with my 4 alts - they will not be paying for any further plexes. I had scouts in 6 other C4 wormholes, four of which were occupied until the last few weeks, now only one is occupied.
So if emptying wormholes was the aim of this update then pats on the back all around at CCP I suppose. |
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