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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6720
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Posted - 2014.08.29 08:39:00 -
[181] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:See, the "If you wardec them they'll just stay in NPC corps forever" argument doesn't exactly show what people think it does.
It does not, for example, show a necessity to declaw wardecs.
It does, however, show that NPC corps have too many positives, and not enough negatives when compared to a player corp. A player that has been in an NPC corp for more than a month should have the tax rate doubled. They should not be permanent homes, they should be temporary to assist in intra corp movement, or temporary vestiges for new players from which to find a player corp.
EVE will never keep new players by pandering to this antisocial solo player bullshit. EVE will keep new players by playing to it's strength, and it's strength is social interaction and participation in the game society at large. I have argued a few times that NPC corps should be hit with a nerf bat of epic size. For me a NPC corp should be a temporary place whilst searching a for new corp, selling your character, if you taking a break, basically where it shouldn't matter if the tax rate is like 50%. However I doubt CCP will ever have the balls to touch NPC Corps. Us this because your war targets jump to npc corps? If players are jumping to npc corps it usually means they cant compete, so instead of chasing them around maybe you should look to lowsec or nullsec uf you wish to pvp, you could argue that highsec should only be a place to learn and you have to leave after a certain amount of time to a 0.4 or below system so that players can learn basics. The way it sounds is your not happy that you cant always get to shoot your target so you want it nerfed, move to lowsec or null and your problem is sorted
If you cant actually read or understand what was written, its probably best not to comment.
"Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Prince Kobol
2093
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Posted - 2014.08.29 08:44:00 -
[182] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
Us this because your war targets jump to npc corps? If players are jumping to npc corps it usually means they cant compete, so instead of chasing them around maybe you should look to lowsec or nullsec uf you wish to pvp, you could argue that highsec should only be a place to learn and you have to leave after a certain amount of time to a 0.4 or below system so that players can learn basics.
The way it sounds is your not happy that you cant always get to shoot your target so you want it nerfed, move to lowsec or null and your problem is sorted
Argh !!!!
Its people like you who are systemically killing this game. Players should not be jumping to NPC Corps, they should be looking for other options like moving outside of high sec.
Maybe then they will realise that low sec is not some magically evil place where you will go boom as soon as you enter like they have been told by their High Care Bear CEO.
Players are being told, drop corp and stay in a NPC corp, you can do everything there that you can do now but you will have to pay a tiny bit more tax but you cant be war decced.
That player will lose any incentive to move to another player corp, to move out of high sec. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6720
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Posted - 2014.08.29 08:48:00 -
[183] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote: I completely understand it not towards me. I totally agree that it is **** and for me personally I believe NPC corps is one of the major contributing factors why Eve is stagnating.
NPC Corps do absolutely nothing positive for Eve.
For me, it was War Decs that got me out of High Sec. I decided to keep my head down in low sec during one and realised that they would not follow me and in the following days realised that low sec wasn't that bad.
My personal advice to anybody who is ever told to drop corp and join a NPC corp is to exactly that, drop corp but DO NOT go back. Find another corp, preferable one outside of High Sec as that is where Eve really shines.
I accept your point of view and recognise its validity
I realise I was also projecting some of the anger I feel towards lazy, arrogant and theiving CEOs onto you, and this was not warranted.
Sorry about that. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9307
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Posted - 2014.08.29 08:50:00 -
[184] - Quote
Now let's all take out that anger on whomever happens to be in the nearest asteroid belt.
That's the ganker equivalent of a group hug. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6720
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Posted - 2014.08.29 08:52:00 -
[185] - Quote
Solution: Mine in a Blops with a Cyno on call
Its expensive, takes a year to train up from nothing and your income will be miniscule
But y'know risk vs rewardlol "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
94
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Posted - 2014.08.29 09:12:00 -
[186] - Quote
Sorry ive been a bit silly and missed a page lol
Its not really people like me killing the game im pretty much stilll a rookie and learning but i was out of highsec at 2mil to galmil then to nullsec (which is a much better life than highsec) at 4mil sp i still have friends i joined with who blanket themselves in the safety of highsec but i think the peoole who are killing the game are the ones who are not giving rookies a chance to learn the game be it a 2 week player who bought a plex and moved it in a silly ship and got ganked by a code operative, allbeit if that happens to most rookies it enough to just logoff and say the game is stupid and never play again, you could argue that its not the game for the rookie when that happens but rookies dont know any better and need to learn
Again sorry for misreading some of this
EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics -á
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6720
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Posted - 2014.08.29 09:17:00 -
[187] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Sorry ive been a bit silly and missed a page lol
Its not really people like me killing the game im pretty much stilll a rookie and learning but i was out of highsec at 2mil to galmil then to nullsec (which is a much better life than highsec) at 4mil sp i still have friends i joined with who blanket themselves in the safety of highsec but i think the peoole who are killing the game are the ones who are not giving rookies a chance to learn the game be it a 2 week player who bought a plex and moved it in a silly ship and got ganked by a code operative, allbeit if that happens to most rookies it enough to just logoff and say the game is stupid and never play again, you could argue that its not the game for the rookie when that happens but rookies dont know any better and need to learn
Again sorry for misreading some of this
Its ok, Im glad to read this reply.
And I entirely agree, the game is hard for rookies to learn. If you look over some of what Ive said, I place the blame squarely on CEOs who refuse to help, and see new players as cash cows and minions.
Of course, the rookie also has to be willingly to learn and willing to take onboard the advice they are given.
There's another lesser problem too of new players who (for all the best intent and reason) shrug off losses as part of the game (which it is and they should) but not realise that losing four retrievers in two days because they were mining during war is not acceptable. Again though, if its not explained to them why, then the situation will simply repeat as they are farmed by those who dec for kills. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24193
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:08:00 -
[188] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Solution: Mine in a Blops with a Cyno on call
Its expensive, takes a year to train up from nothing and your income will be miniscule
But y'know risk vs rewardlol Incidentally, the Prospect can be blops-dropped into the ass end of space where no-one will ever come look for itGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1606
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:09:00 -
[189] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You wardecced me? When exactly was that? I've been living in null for quite some time, so if by that you mean you wardecced SMA, then lol, wardecs don't exist in null buddy. I imagine though that this is just the usual "we're so 'ard" response from you lot. There there, you are well good and beating up all them noobs, don't you worry your little cotton socks sunshine.
[
Yet you guys come and go into high sec all the time and we get aLOT of nice kills. Granted taht war was reasonably long ago and you might not have been in there.
Even if you or other guy neves comes to high sec, there is always some that come, and they take their safety as granted ... and then die. Probably 30% of our kills are 0.0 and wormhoel space dudes... that forget that they do come to high sec all the time. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4158
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:28:00 -
[190] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:It doesn't take a genius to either work out how to avoid being killed in a war (there are numerous ways) or simply to ask for help and then use the advice given. And when they do this, they get whined at for being risk averse carebears and told that highsec is too safe.
The problem is that wardecs are crap, they are terrible at generating fights like they are supposed to. They are terrible because the people not using them avoid them and the people that use them will only do so against people who stand no chance (the aforementioned group who avoid them). You can ***** and moan about how people don't learn how to play the game well enough, But that isn't a solution.
The end result though is always the same. People who don't like the wardecs and get decced to much quit. You guys all cheer the loss of another carebear, and the game gets smaller. The inevitable result is that attrition will kill the game, while you refuse to compromise. And it's dumb. Who cares if some random wants to sit in a corner all day doing like a mission an hour and just being left alone? They don't affect anyone and they provide income for CCP which can be used to make improvements. But no, they must leave because they don't want to play the way you want to. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4158
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:36:00 -
[191] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It does, however, show that NPC corps have too many positives, and not enough negatives when compared to a player corp. A player that has been in an NPC corp for more than a month should have the tax rate doubled. They should not be permanent homes, they should be temporary to assist in intra corp movement, or temporary vestiges for new players from which to find a player corp. Back to the "nuke NPC corps" argument. Like making it even worse for people who don;t want to fight is going to suddenly make the game better. Like all of those people will suddenly say "You know what, I actually like getting blown up! Bring it on!". It's not the case. All it would do is push more people out.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:EVE will never keep new players by pandering to this antisocial solo player bullshit. EVE will keep new players by playing to it's strength, and it's strength is social interaction and participation in the game society at large. Lol? Are you serious? EVE has a serious new player problem right now, and yet right now it plays to it's strength. The thing is, when someone starts a game, finds a few things they enjoy, and does them, then some random 10 years old player flies over blows them up steals all their stuff and flies off giggling, many of those new player leave. Antisocial solo players don't make the game any worse. They don't make it better either but they don't make it worse. Getting rid of them is dumping a massive market segment for absolutely zero gain. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Solecist Project
Mew Age Outpaws
9187
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:40:00 -
[192] - Quote
I agree.
Instead we should have what CCP Tuxford once said!
When you join New Eden you are at war with everyone ... ... and have to declare PEACE! http://residentoutlaw.tumblr.com - Mew Age Calendar YC116.08.27 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=369961 |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12856
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:44:00 -
[193] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Lol? Are you serious? EVE has a serious new player problem right now,
No it doesn't. New players are positivly spoiled when compared to what I went through. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4158
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:45:00 -
[194] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Players should not be jumping to NPC Corps, they should be looking for other options like moving outside of high sec. Why? It's a game, it's entertainment. If they enjoy highsec, then that's where they are free to stay. Staying in an NPC corp or solo corps for tax shelters is currently the best way to do that, since the vast majority of wardeccers are gankers that don't want to be concorded.
Prince Kobol wrote:Players are being told, drop corp and stay in a NPC corp, you can do everything there that you can do now but you will have to pay a tiny bit more tax but you cant be war decced.
That player will lose any incentive to move to another player corp, to move out of high sec. Good. They don't need the incentive, since they don't want to play the way you play. Not to mention that every time a player moves permanently to an NPC corp, the wardeccers who systematically hunt down anyone that stands no chance of fighting back have 1 less target. One day perhaps wardeccers will have to actually fight people that fight back, and shazzam, content is born. It would be nice if they chose to do that instead, but failing that, I'm happy to continue telling people to avoid them. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Elinarien
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:48:00 -
[195] - Quote
The answer to the NPC Corp issue is very simple - make it so that only faction warfare NPC corps allow players to join - that way a player can sit in high sec and mine / mission but with the risk that an opposing faction could always appear and kill him quite legitimately. That would allow for the removal of Concord and it's replacement with faction-specific police. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9312
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:48:00 -
[196] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Getting rid of them is dumping a massive market segment for absolutely zero gain.
Which is EXACTLY what the "ban ganking and wardecs!" crowd comes on here, every day, to suggest to CCP. Screwing over your established playerbase to chase theoretical casuals.
Hooray for cognitive dissonance! "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4158
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:49:00 -
[197] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Yet you guys come and go into high sec all the time and we get aLOT of nice kills. Granted taht war was reasonably long ago and you might not have been in there.
Even if you or other guy neves comes to high sec, there is always some that come, and they take their safety as granted ... and then die. Probably 30% of our kills are 0.0 and wormhole space dudes... that forget that they do come to high sec all the time. Oh I see. Yeah, the only time you'll see my SMA guys in high sec is when I'm doing Burn Jita. NPC alts do everything else I need to, because NPC corps are brilliant. Everyone should just move to NPC corps.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6723
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:52:00 -
[198] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:It doesn't take a genius to either work out how to avoid being killed in a war (there are numerous ways) or simply to ask for help and then use the advice given. And when they do this, they get whined at for being risk averse carebears and told that highsec is too safe.
No they dont
Thats as ridiculous as the "Gankers are always up in arms when non-combat ships get a buff" argument
Its complete rubbish and you know it.
Unless, of course, thats what you are telling your new starts, then for shame Lucas.
For shame. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4158
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:55:00 -
[199] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Lol? Are you serious? EVE has a serious new player problem right now, No it doesn't. New players are positivly spoiled when compared to what I went through. Oh OK, I guess CCP were wrong about that at fanfest then. My bad.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Valkin Mordirc
159
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:56:00 -
[200] - Quote
I was wondering when Lucas would find this thread. Took longer than I expected. Psychotic Monk for CSM9
Scipio Artelius: I find your continued optimism for the outcome of the CSM vote endearing |
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Cannibal Kane
Cannibal Empire
4291
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:56:00 -
[201] - Quote
How did I ever miss this thread?
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12858
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:58:00 -
[202] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Lol? Are you serious? EVE has a serious new player problem right now, No it doesn't. New players are positivly spoiled when compared to what I went through. Oh OK, I guess CCP were wrong about that at fanfest then. My bad.
Go look at all of those other MMOs that have come and died over the last decade, they would kill for EVEs record on keeping players. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6723
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Posted - 2014.08.29 10:59:00 -
[203] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:How did I ever miss this thread?
I assumed you were lurking anyway "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4158
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Posted - 2014.08.29 11:02:00 -
[204] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Getting rid of them is dumping a massive market segment for absolutely zero gain. Which is EXACTLY what the "ban ganking and wardecs!" crowd comes on here, every day, to suggest to CCP. Screwing over your established playerbase to chase theoretical casuals. Hooray for cognitive dissonance! I don't think the existing playerbase should be screwed over, but they aren't screwed over by allowing some noobs to live and play their own way. They need to find a balance. I'm of the opinion that generating more income would be better for the whole playerbase, new and old, and that in order to make things better for the newer players (and thus allowing them to become old), the existing playerbase will need to make small concessions.
I really do love this idea that some random noob wants to sit and do crappy mission for crappy income, you try to blow them up and CCP doesn't let you, then you fall about the floor screaming "you've screwed us CCP! SCREWED! We can't gank unreasonably easy and worthless targets just to make them cry anymore! SCREWED!". The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20524
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Posted - 2014.08.29 11:03:00 -
[205] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:How did I ever miss this thread?
I assumed you were lurking anyway I assumed that he was making a list of people to say "Hello there" to.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6723
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Posted - 2014.08.29 11:04:00 -
[206] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: I really do love this idea that some random noob wants to sit and do crappy mission for crappy income, you try to blow them up and CCP doesn't let you, then you fall about the floor screaming "you've screwed us CCP! SCREWED! We can't gank unreasonably easy and worthless targets just to make them cry anymore! SCREWED!".
No one has even alluded to that.
You seem to be giving in to the tabloid-esque rhetoric that the WoW brigade around here seem to like to peddle. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4158
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Posted - 2014.08.29 11:06:00 -
[207] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:No they dont
Thats as ridiculous as the "Gankers are always up in arms when non-combat ships get a buff" argument
Its complete rubbish and you know it. Of course they do. You see it all the time! People throwing around "entitled carbears" and demanding the destruction of NPC corps, to force people to fight. I can;t count the number of times I've seen people whining about how someone avoided a wardec and how unfair it is that they paid for their wardec and now have no targets to shoot. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Valkin Mordirc
159
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Posted - 2014.08.29 11:10:00 -
[208] - Quote
On the subject of Wardec being only griefing tools, I thought EVE allowed you be the bad guy, not the MMO where everyone skips around gallantly sings, 'I love you'.
If it wasn't for Wardeccers and Suicide Gankers, Highsec would be completely Tame. They bring the Bad to highsec. Psychotic Monk for CSM9
Scipio Artelius: I find your continued optimism for the outcome of the CSM vote endearing |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6727
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Posted - 2014.08.29 11:11:00 -
[209] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:No they dont
Thats as ridiculous as the "Gankers are always up in arms when non-combat ships get a buff" argument
Its complete rubbish and you know it. Of course they do. You see it all the time! People throwing around "entitled carbears" and demanding the destruction of NPC corps, to force people to fight. I can;t count the number of times I've seen people whining about how someone avoided a wardec and how unfair it is that they paid for their wardec and now have no targets to shoot.
You cant count it because it hasnt happened.
Please link me to one single place where someone genuinely asking for help (not for the game to be changed around his wishes) was called an entitled carebear.
Go on
Ill wait
And of COURSE NPC corps are bad. They are as bad as using Wardecs to avoid CONCORD. Ive said that already.
They have no purpose other than to avoid conflict and basically exploit mechanics. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
96
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Posted - 2014.08.29 11:14:00 -
[210] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Sorry ive been a bit silly and missed a page lol
Its not really people like me killing the game im pretty much stilll a rookie and learning but i was out of highsec at 2mil to galmil then to nullsec (which is a much better life than highsec) at 4mil sp i still have friends i joined with who blanket themselves in the safety of highsec but i think the peoole who are killing the game are the ones who are not giving rookies a chance to learn the game be it a 2 week player who bought a plex and moved it in a silly ship and got ganked by a code operative, allbeit if that happens to most rookies it enough to just logoff and say the game is stupid and never play again, you could argue that its not the game for the rookie when that happens but rookies dont know any better and need to learn
Again sorry for misreading some of this
Its ok, Im glad to read this reply. And I entirely agree, the game is hard for rookies to learn. If you look over some of what Ive said, I place the blame squarely on CEOs who refuse to help, and see new players as cash cows and minions. Of course, the rookie also has to be willingly to learn and willing to take onboard the advice they are given. There's another lesser problem too of new players who (for all the best intent and reason) shrug off losses as part of the game (which it is and they should) but not realise that losing four retrievers in two days because they were mining during war is not acceptable. Again though, if its not explained to them why, then the situation will simply repeat as they are farmed by those who dec for kills.
Yeah i kinda use to shrug off losses till such a stage i realised t3's started getting expensive and didnt really do much when flying solo and getting hotdropped by the 10man frig/cruiser gangs in lowsec, but its all learning and sometimes you actually feel the shiney ships pain when you drop 15blops onto it and pod him back to whereever he came from. I was never part of highsec corps because i came to this game solely to pvp but my friends have been in situations where they have dropped to npc corps because of wardecs, i would probably do the same because its hard to compete and also expensive in this game when you have no experience of pvp, its like shooting blind chickens with a shotgun
EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics -á
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