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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3837
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 09:24:00 -
[511] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:In EVE, people who don't mess with anyone are incentivized to leave the game, whereas people who mess with others never are incentivized to leave the game. false There are two statements, which one you call false and why? there are two statements, both presented without reasoning and both of which are false |
Solecist Project
Mew Age Outpaws
9234
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 09:28:00 -
[512] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Modern society created weaklings who have stopped understanding that being able tk protect ones self is of utter most importance.
Instead people obey to a protective authority. The whole art of civilization is to set layers between violence and the individual. That allows those who can't protect themselves to make it alive through deadly perils such as being a child and going to school in some countries. In EVE, everybody is armed and nobody is safe. RL is the same but with irreversible consequences. While this being true, it is irrelevant to the matter of the game.
I repeat...
Society creates weaklings who forgot that it is of utter most importance to protect ones self.
This got so bad, that people even do not want to protect themselves in a game.
Remember... this is a game.
Proof of this point can be seen on the forums, including this thread.
What's sad, is that each new generation will cry more for protection of said authority, because they are used to said protection and every new blow to their perceived security will make them cry for even more protection.
Matters of facts, as can be seen in real life. Real people play this game!
Opinions on the matter are irrelevant.
What's reality can be seen on the forums, almost daily. http://residentoutlaw.tumblr.com - Mew Age Calendar YC116.08.27 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=369961 |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3837
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 09:31:00 -
[513] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:The serous point is that PvPrs who disrupt the non-PvP activities of players who don't engage in PvP should be exposed to have their own non-PvP acitvities disrupted by their victims.
A extreme and funny example was given by Mike Azariah in his "Peace dec" blog.
The whole risk vs reward is biased since A can force his playstyle on B but B can't force his play style on A, so B must either play as A does or quit the game. That's barely an equitable choice, but CCP are OK with it. pvpers who disrupt the pve activities of others are already exposed to having their own activities disrupted
the game is entirely fair in that regard. each player is on an even footing, you see. people who pvp aren't handed additional tools. people who refuse the tools handed to them are at a disadvantage only due to their own choices
i'm going to type the phrase 'deal with it' followed by the emoticon wearing shades |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3837
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 09:32:00 -
[514] - Quote
deal with it |
Jenni LaCroix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2014.08.30 09:52:00 -
[515] - Quote
Duchess Amarrian wrote:Last night my hauling ship got blown sky high. I was flying a prorator and doing some deliveries. The person that shot me down organised it really well by setting up contracts and sucking in the person accepting the contract. I wont go into detail here. As i was making the delivery and just 1 second from being docked into station my ship got blown sky high. From what ? a minmitar Battleship that was so many km's away. It took 2 people to stop me.
I keep hearing that ccp wil be doing something about this. I've just had enough of it. Seriously I'm trying to find some fun in this game and seeing that the others always have the edge over miners and haulers in high sec is a real joke. I don't mind if it had happened in low sec and null but when your playing by ccp rules to me it seems there are no rules and high sec is really a joke.
At the very least give miners and haulers some big guns like you give others and maybe will balance things well.
The two that got me are "Luukje" and "Natural CloneKiller". I put up a big bounty on Luk so enjoy your hunting.
cheers
Ever heard of Concord?
Yes, there is protection in high sec, but sometimes some people are the poor ones. They get chosen to be terminated. Me for example, I blow up every single leopard shuttle there is. I love to insta-blap someone plus they carry some nice stuff in it often.
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Solecist Project
Mew Age Outpaws
9238
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Posted - 2014.08.30 10:20:00 -
[516] - Quote
A huge misunderstanding comes from the idea that CONCORD provides protection.
They do not.
At all.
They come and kick my ass either before ... ... or after the job is done ... ... but either way I already started engaging.
They do not provide protection ... ... as they do not prevent me from attacking anyone.
"Protection" means that someone is preventing harm from being done.
CONCORD punishes ... but does not protect. http://residentoutlaw.tumblr.com - Mew Age Calendar YC116.08.27 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=369961 |
Luukje
The Phoenix Rising
15
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Posted - 2014.08.30 10:44:00 -
[517] - Quote
The funny thing remains, that all these cries for more tank protection and what not, are coming from players who dont understand how to tank their ships or which tools in addition they have to get themselves safe. Instead of crying for more protection, invest some time into learning the game mechanics you can use to ur own advantage, stop being lazy.
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Sidrat Flush
Deadly Harmony
190
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Posted - 2014.08.30 10:51:00 -
[518] - Quote
Interesting angle this conversation has turned towards.
That of the perception of protection and feeling safe will require more and more steps as people over come the perceived barrier.
While Concord does not provide protection, merely consequences, those who fail to understand this fine distinction will be calling for more and more steps until we're taken over by robots and can't undock or buy things from the market without going through several pop up warning screens to ensure this is actually what we want to do and can fathom the possible dangers of our actions.
Eve is ten years old, and it's always had a divide between player styles, those that merely want to build and create; and those that don't enjoy spreadsheets who just want to attack stuff in a pvp game.
Neither side is wrong per se. The anti-pvp side fail to appreciate the team work, communication and time spent in order to pull off a successful attack - profit in ISK or tears, if the anti-pvp crowd fail to provide both, perhaps they won't be targeted as often? The anti-spreadsheet, combat side under appreciates the time, team work and effort it requires to set up and keep a supply chain going.
Of course the previous paragraph was a total generalisation and wrong for so many people who actually do both and appreciates both for what they are.
I think we as players should step out of our comfort zone more often. Do something against our nature, in order to understand 'the enemy' and become better at our primary focus in the game.
Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
580
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 11:13:00 -
[519] - Quote
Sidrat Flush wrote: Interesting angle this conversation has turned towards.
That of the perception of protection and feeling safe will require more and more steps as people over come the perceived barrier.
While Concord does not provide protection, merely consequences, those who fail to understand this fine distinction will be calling for more and more steps until we're taken over by robots and can't undock or buy things from the market without going through several pop up warning screens to ensure this is actually what we want to do and can fathom the possible dangers of our actions.
Eve is ten years old, and it's always had a divide between player styles, those that merely want to build and create; and those that don't enjoy spreadsheets who just want to attack stuff in a pvp game.
Neither side is wrong per se. The anti-pvp side fail to appreciate the team work, communication and time spent in order to pull off a successful attack - profit in ISK or tears, if the anti-pvp crowd fail to provide both, perhaps they won't be targeted as often? The anti-spreadsheet, combat side under appreciates the time, team work and effort it requires to set up and keep a supply chain going.
Of course the previous paragraph was a total generalisation and wrong for so many people who actually do both and appreciates both for what they are.
I think we as players should step out of our comfort zone more often. Do something against our nature, in order to understand 'the enemy' and become better at our primary focus in the game.
I'm not sure about that because they already got what they wanted twice, first for barges then for freighters, yet if any thing the whining has simply gotten worse. Forgive me for not wanting to talk to people who never have anything new to say. Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome |
Solecist Project
Mew Age Outpaws
9241
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 11:18:00 -
[520] - Quote
Sidrat Flush wrote:That of the perception of protection and feeling safe will require more and more steps as people over come the perceived barrier ... will be calling for more and more steps until ... [police state] ... can't [freedom] without going through [bureaucracy] to ensure [safety]
I felt free to sum up your post ... ... which makes it applicable to both ingame- and actual reality. http://residentoutlaw.tumblr.com - Mew Age Calendar YC116.08.27 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=369961 |
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Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1646
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 13:39:00 -
[521] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:And standard haulers generally can't survived 10-15 T1 catalysts,
They can survive them by not making themselves a target for them. Don't haul more than the Catalysts are worth.
Lucas Kell wrote:Depends on if they are going for loot or a green killboard and tears.
Not really. You'd be hard pressed to recruit 15 people in Catalysts to kill a T1 hauler carrying 30m of stuff. At that amount of Catalysts you might as well gank an Orca worth 800m.
Lucas Kell wrote:And no, a standard hauler, as in not a freighter
I was not aware that freighters were non-standard hauling ships. Are freighters used for something else?
Lucas Kell wrote:Wrong. Try not trolling so much. Basically you disagree with me, so rather than come up with something sensible to say you are going to attack me, call me a carebear lover, and blah blah blah, the usual tears of someone with the inability to communicate. If you read what I actually wrote, you''d realise you were talking out of your ass. Either way, I'm not arguing this point with you. Troll elsewhere.
What a compelling argument! Except not, because it's just a bunch of insults.
Lucas Kell wrote:Where are you buying your T1 catalysts for 10m a pop? 2.5m tops, and that's if you can't be bothered to wait of buy orders.
Sorry, but you just said "Catalyst", you never defined T1 or T2 so I went and did that for you. :)
Epic Space Cat |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12878
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 14:31:00 -
[522] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Sidrat Flush wrote:That of the perception of protection and feeling safe will require more and more steps as people over come the perceived barrier ... will be calling for more and more steps until ... [police state] ... can't [freedom] without going through [bureaucracy] to ensure [safety] I felt free to sum up your post ... ... which makes it applicable to both ingame- and actual reality.
You have snakes in your hair. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
186
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Posted - 2014.08.30 14:54:00 -
[523] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Modern society created weaklings who have stopped understanding that being able tk protect ones self is of utter most importance.
Instead people obey to a protective authority. The whole art of civilization is to set layers between violence and the individual. That allows those who can't protect themselves to make it alive through deadly perils such as being a child and going to school in some countries.
Wow. For Solecist to state such a thing about the real world. It's people who think like that that is wrong with the world today.
Well said Indahmawar. Well said.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24221
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 14:55:00 -
[524] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Depends on if they are going for loot or a green killboard and tears. And no, a standard hauler, as in not a freighter, is not going to be surviving that many catalysts. It would be a push to survive 5, which would even be green on the loot side too. No, it doesn't really depend on either of that GÇö it's a loss. 30M in carried loot does not make up for the loss of 10GÇô15 destroyers. And freigthers are standard haulers. As are DSTs and BRs. A non-standard hauler would be a covops or an interceptor or maybe a Damnation. If you want to say GÇ£T1 industrialGÇ¥ then say GÇ£T1 industrialGÇ¥ GÇö they're not the only haulers around.
And funnily enough, if they were going for tears, 15 people on a 30M target GÇö especially if it's a T1 indy GÇö is even less likely because no-one is going to cry over that amount. It's not something that the 15 people sitting around will be interested in.
Quote:Where are you buying your T1 catalysts for 10m a pop? 2.5m tops, and that's if you can't be bothered to wait of buy orders Standard T2 fit arrives at roughly that price. For 2.5M tops, you're not even going to scratch the paint on many haulers.
GǪoh, and Ruby points out, the main cost here is actually the 3GÇô4 mahours that go into that gank (and that's not even counting the waiting around for a worth-while target to appear). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3843
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 16:11:00 -
[525] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:The serous point is that PvPrs who disrupt the non-PvP activities of players who don't engage in PvP should be exposed to have their own non-PvP acitvities disrupted by their victims.
A extreme and funny example was given by Mike Azariah in his "Peace dec" blog.
The whole risk vs reward is biased since A can force his playstyle on B but B can't force his play style on A, so B must either play as A does or quit the game. That's barely an equitable choice, but CCP are OK with it. pvpers who disrupt the pve activities of others are already exposed to having their own activities disrupted the game is entirely fair in that regard. each player is on an even footing, you see. people who pvp aren't handed additional tools. people who refuse the tools handed to them are at a disadvantage only due to their own choices i'm going to type the phrase 'deal with it' followed by the emoticon wearing shades let's put it another way. there are two hypothetical players. the first chooses to embrace all the tools provided them by the game. let's call this player the absurdly courageous space hero, paragon of virtue and morality, ruler of all those in optimal range, or ACSHPVMRATOR for short
actually i'll just end the post here because i'm tired. let's just assume i finished the hypothetical and it was fantastic. if someone can modify the title of the courageous space hero so that it ends with -RAPTOR that'd be badass thanks |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5406
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 17:40:00 -
[526] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: let's put it another way. there are two hypothetical players. the first chooses to embrace all the tools provided them by the game. let's call this player the absurdly courageous space hero, paragon of virtue and morality, ruler of all those in optimal range, or ACSHPVMRATOR for short
actually i'll just end the post here because i'm tired. let's just assume i finished the hypothetical and it was fantastic. if someone can modify the title of the courageous space hero so that it ends with -RAPTOR that'd be badass thanks
absurdly courageous space hero, paragon of virtue and morality, ruler of all those players traveling in optimal range
ACSHPVMRAPTOR "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Niko Thiesman
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 18:59:00 -
[527] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Since I've been doing a lot of bumping lately, I am going to rename my Stabber "Falcon Punch".
You know, since it knocks you out of bounds.
Reminds me of Super Smash Brothers. lol
People need to stop whining about CODE and gankers. People also need to stop paying "mining dues". CODE is nothing more than a bunch of people pretending they have a right to tell people how to play. Just fit your ships properly, fly with friends, and ignore CODE. They are good for nothing except a good fireworks show, occasionally. It's just too bad they won't PvP and they chicken out of REAL fights.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2dtert/rvb_best_ban_ever_catalyst_vs_code_code_forfeits/
I do agree with CODE on one point though, If you just let your ship sit there and go AFK or something you are just asking to be podded.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
464
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Posted - 2014.08.30 19:13:00 -
[528] - Quote
implants are itchy.
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Niko Thiesman
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 19:19:00 -
[529] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:implants are itchy.
Mine too. Guess it's time to go PvP until I get podded, then get the level 5's. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20568
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:00:00 -
[530] - Quote
Niko Thiesman wrote: People need to stop whining about CODE and gankers. People also need to stop paying "mining dues". CODE calling mining without permits "illegal" is just plain stupid. CODE is not a legal entity of any kind. CODE is nothing more than a bunch of people pretending they have a right to tell people how to play.
It's an extortion racket, and it's within the rules of the game to run such an enterprise, they appear to have the muscle to enforce it to a certain extent too.
Quote:Just fit your ships properly, fly with friends, and ignore CODE. I agree with points 1 and 2, but ignoring them is not an option, it may end in an explosion or 3, acknowledging that they exist and planning around them is the way to go
Quote:They are good for nothing except a good fireworks show, occasionally. I don't know about that, the amount of tears they generate is astounding.
Quote:It's just too bad they won't PvP and they chicken out of REAL fights. If it involves another player it's PvP, as for real fights you need to define that, as I'm pretty sure they roam in lowsec and nullsec and kill people there too, when they're not enforcing their extortion racket.
Quote:I do agree with CODE on one point though, If you just let your ship sit there and go AFK or something you are just asking to be podded. Totally. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
468
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:18:00 -
[531] - Quote
Confessions of an erratic and usually inebriated mind.... I want Tippia to bear my space babies, as Kurosaki Rukia has given me the cold shoulder. The children would be highly intelligent, completely rational, and hell bent upon reforming the universe through force. Jonah Gravenstein should come over to the darkside and become an inquisitor of HTFU. He knows it to be true, but still has yet to admit it to himself. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20569
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:21:00 -
[532] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Jonah Gravenstein should come over to the darkside and become an inquisitor of HTFU. He knows it to be true, but still has yet to admit it to himself. lol I actually spoke to Ralph about this the other day, seriously considering putting an alt in with you guys. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
468
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:23:00 -
[533] - Quote
I took the big leap and put my main (me) in. I have yet to feel any sense of regret, and it's revitalized my love for this game.
Edit: I've been told we have cookies, I have yet to see one. On the other hand I get to fight against rediculous ships with equally rediculous results... such as https://zkillboard.com/kill/40530236/ |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20570
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:26:00 -
[534] - Quote
I would but while this character can do many things it can do none of them well, my alt is far more combat oriented.
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Edit: I've been told we have cookies, I have yet to see one. It's the dark side, of course you were lied to about the cookies, you have to loot them for yourself. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
474
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:44:00 -
[535] - Quote
I do have plenty of Damsels and slaves, to be fair. |
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:59:00 -
[536] - Quote
Falcon you are my new hero :) Thank you for restoring my faith in CCP.
One argument that I never see the care bears never address is this:
It takes a lot of gankers to pull off the larger ganks. That means coordinating quite a few pilots to work together. Why don't gank targets bring along an ECM friend or two to disrupt the ganks? One mediocre ECM pilot e.g. a Griffin pilot cancels out two ganker pilots. You only have to get half as many - realistically 1/3 or less - ECM friends working together to completely negate the gank. And the gankers still loose their ships.
If you are going to use resource comparisons as an argument that ganking is unbalanced you have to consider the number of people and pilots involved on each side of the gank. Any comparison this ignores this aspect is without foundation and in my opinion ( deliberately ) intellectually dishonest. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 21:05:00 -
[537] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:Falcon you are my new hero :) Thank you for restoring my faith in CCP.
One argument that I never see the care bears never address is this:
It takes a lot of gankers to pull off the larger ganks. That means coordinating quite a few pilots to work together. Why don't gank targets bring along an ECM friend or two to disrupt the ganks? One mediocre ECM pilot e.g. a Griffin pilot cancels out two ganker pilots. You only have to get half as many - realistically 1/3 or less - ECM friends working together to completely negate the gank. And the gankers still loose their ships.
If you are going to use resource comparisons as an argument that ganking is unbalanced you have to consider the number of people and pilots involved on each side of the gank. Any comparison this ignores this aspect is without foundation and in my opinion ( deliberately ) intellectually dishonest.
But how can i do this afk? its just not fair. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5410
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 21:06:00 -
[538] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:If you are going to use resource comparisons as an argument that ganking is unbalanced you have to consider the number of people and pilots involved on each side of the gank. Any comparison this ignores this aspect is without foundation and in my opinion ( deliberately ) intellectually dishonest.
Friends are overpowered. Nerf Friends. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20574
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 21:23:00 -
[539] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Friends are overpowered. Nerf Friends. They're not as overpowered as avarice, stupidity and incompetence The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
2794
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 21:37:00 -
[540] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:Falcon you are my new hero :) Thank you for restoring my faith in CCP.
One argument that I never see the care bears never address is this:
It takes a lot of gankers to pull off the larger ganks. That means coordinating quite a few pilots to work together. Why don't gank targets bring along an ECM friend or two to disrupt the ganks? One mediocre ECM pilot e.g. a Griffin pilot cancels out two ganker pilots. You only have to get half as many - realistically 1/3 or less - ECM friends working together to completely negate the gank. And the gankers still loose their ships.
If you are going to use resource comparisons as an argument that ganking is unbalanced you have to consider the number of people and pilots involved on each side of the gank. Any comparison this ignores this aspect is without foundation and in my opinion ( deliberately ) intellectually dishonest.
Would you spend all your play time escorting someone day after day so you can ECM boost him when he needs it, maybe once in six months?
If the answer is "yes", CCP should hire you, you're the kind of sucker they're looking for when they ask players to bring friends to each and every non-PvP activity. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
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