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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Luukje
The Phoenix Rising
21
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:25:00 -
[571] - Quote
Veers belvar must be a troll, or just ignorant as ****. Haulers have SO MANY options to ensure safe passage, it just requires you to use 2 chars, be it scout or more preferred a webber. you'll be in warp sideways before the first bump lands. but no youre refusing to use the tools handed and then cry for more hand holding. derp |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9391
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:26:00 -
[572] - Quote
Luukje wrote:Veers belvar must be a troll, or just ignorant as ****.
Why not both? Never underestimate the stupidity of carebears, nor their ability to blindly cling to something even after a blue explicitly tells them that they are wrong. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:28:00 -
[573] - Quote
Luukje wrote:Veers belvar must be a troll, or just ignorant as ****. Haulers have SO MANY options to ensure safe passage, it just requires you to use 2 chars, be it scout or more preferred a webber. you'll be in warp sideways before the first bump lands. but no youre refusing to use the tools handed and then cry for more hand holding. derp
Which is completely irrelevent to whether CONCORD should respond on not. If you fly into Uedama, without any support, or 2 characters, and the bad guys shoot you, does CONCORD say tough luck? Of course not, it comes and shoots the gankers! Why should CONCORD response depends on the "tools handed to you?" Do the police tell robbery victims, "we are not coming because you should have picked a better neighborhood to live in?" |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:30:00 -
[574] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Luukje wrote:Veers belvar must be a troll, or just ignorant as ****. Why not both? Never underestimate the stupidity of carebears, nor their ability to blindly cling to something even after a blue explicitly tells them that they are wrong.
Except that CCP Falcon has not responded to my point (and I hope that he will). You will excuse me for not relying on your expansive knowledge of game mechanics and law enforcement. And great use of "carebear," real classy. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24235
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:30:00 -
[575] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Which is completely irrelevent to whether CONCORD should respond on not. If you fly into Uedama, without any support, or 2 characters, and the bad guys shoot you, does CONCORD say tough luck? Of course not GǪbecause a crime has been committed, unlike with, say, bumping. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5419
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:32:00 -
[576] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Please take action so that bumpers cant not unlawfully entrap (a crime in every jurisdiction!) gank targets between gank attempts (an action that is 100% equivalent to warp scrambling, and hence a criminal act).
It's not a crime in New Eden.
It's not equivalent to warp scrambling. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:35:00 -
[577] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Which is completely irrelevent to whether CONCORD should respond on not. If you fly into Uedama, without any support, or 2 characters, and the bad guys shoot you, does CONCORD say tough luck? Of course not GǪbecause a crime has been committed, unlike with, say, bumping.
Well, this will be my last round with you, and I will await response from CCP Falcon. When the bumping is 100% functionally equivalent to warp scrambling it is a crime.
And from the other thread, my question to CCP Falcon - assuming optimal bumping from 3 optimally fitted Machariels, and optimal response from a freighter fitted with tank rigs, will the freighter be able to escape within 15 minutes? If the answer is, as I suspect, "no," then should not the bumping here, especially when used between successive gank attempts by the EXACT SAME gankers, trigger a CONCORD response per your prior post that CONCORD acts as a reactive law enforcement agency, which would respond to the commission of the crime of False Imprisonment?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24236
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:37:00 -
[578] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Well, this will be my last round with you, and I will await response from CCP Falcon. You already have your answer.
Quote:When the bumping is 100% functionally equivalent to warp scrambling it is a crime. So never, then. That explains why it's allowed, why CCP says it's working as intended, and why CONCORD does not respond: because simply isn't a crime.
Quote:And from the other thread, my question to CCP Falcon - assuming optimal bumping from 3 optimally fitted Machariels, and optimal response from a freighter fitted with tank rigs, will the freighter be able to escape within 15 minutes? Yes. Your suspicions are based a completely different scenario where the freighter does pretty much nothing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5419
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:38:00 -
[579] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Tippia wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Which is completely irrelevent to whether CONCORD should respond on not. If you fly into Uedama, without any support, or 2 characters, and the bad guys shoot you, does CONCORD say tough luck? Of course not GǪbecause a crime has been committed, unlike with, say, bumping. Well, this will be my last round with you, and I will await response from CCP Falcon. When the bumping is 100% functionally equivalent to warp scrambling it is a crime. And from the other thread, my question to CCP Falcon - assuming optimal bumping from 3 optimally fitted Machariels, and optimal response from a freighter fitted with tank rigs, will the freighter be able to escape within 15 minutes? If the answer is, as I suspect, "no," then should not the bumping here, especially when used between successive gank attempts by the EXACT SAME gankers, trigger a CONCORD response per your prior post that CONCORD acts as a reactive law enforcement agency, which would respond to the commission of the crime of False Imprisonment?
You just crossposted your complaint to the thread which has the 100% official response to the complaint.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Luukje
The Phoenix Rising
22
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:39:00 -
[580] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Luukje wrote:Veers belvar must be a troll, or just ignorant as ****. Why not both? Never underestimate the stupidity of carebears, nor their ability to blindly cling to something even after a blue explicitly tells them that they are wrong.
the stupidity of the general eve public is what i make my isk on; as shown by OP oh and veers, stop crying about bumps, the fact you got yourself bumped means you didnt have a scout or a webber or refused to use them. tools are there; use them. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9392
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:41:00 -
[581] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:When the bumping is 100% functionally equivalent to warp scrambling it is a crime.
Then it never is.
That was easier than I thought it would be. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:44:00 -
[582] - Quote
Luukje wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Luukje wrote:Veers belvar must be a troll, or just ignorant as ****. Why not both? Never underestimate the stupidity of carebears, nor their ability to blindly cling to something even after a blue explicitly tells them that they are wrong. the stupidity of the general eve public is what i make my isk on; as shown by OP oh and veers, stop crying about bumps, the fact you got yourself bumped means you didnt have a scout or a webber or refused to use them. tools are there; use them.
I didn't get bumped (feel free to check my killboard), and response to criminal activity in highsec should not depend on using a scout or a webber. Those may be helpful for avoiding death between the crime and the CONCORD response, but should not be required to trigger CONCORD acting as a "law enforcement agency."
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:45:00 -
[583] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Tippia wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Which is completely irrelevent to whether CONCORD should respond on not. If you fly into Uedama, without any support, or 2 characters, and the bad guys shoot you, does CONCORD say tough luck? Of course not GǪbecause a crime has been committed, unlike with, say, bumping. Well, this will be my last round with you, and I will await response from CCP Falcon. When the bumping is 100% functionally equivalent to warp scrambling it is a crime. And from the other thread, my question to CCP Falcon - assuming optimal bumping from 3 optimally fitted Machariels, and optimal response from a freighter fitted with tank rigs, will the freighter be able to escape within 15 minutes? If the answer is, as I suspect, "no," then should not the bumping here, especially when used between successive gank attempts by the EXACT SAME gankers, trigger a CONCORD response per your prior post that CONCORD acts as a reactive law enforcement agency, which would respond to the commission of the crime of False Imprisonment? You just crossposted your complaint to the thread which has the 100% official response to the complaint.
That thread never addressed using bumping falsely imprison gank victims between successive ganks from the exact same gankers. That response was to AFK miners crying that Code bumped them off their asteroid, and required the to come press F1 more often than once an hour. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1101
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:45:00 -
[584] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:What does not make sense, and is clearly an exploit, and is wholly inconsistent with CONCORD being a police force ...is the way they appear out of thin air and have infinite ships available.
Obviously this is totally illogical, there should be a finite number of CONCORD ships, which can be killed, and which have to travel the scene of crimes.
As long as we're appealing to real life. [witty image] - Stream |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9393
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:48:00 -
[585] - Quote
I didn't know it was possible for anyone to be worse than Dinsdale, but here he is. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:48:00 -
[586] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:What does not make sense, and is clearly an exploit, and is wholly inconsistent with CONCORD being a police force ...is the way they appear out of thin air and have infinite ships available. Obviously this is totally illogical, there should be a finite number of CONCORD ships, which can be killed, and which have to travel the scene of crimes. As long as we're appealing to real life.
Yes, because in real life the criminals routinely blow away the police forces....*eyeroll*
What would be nice is if anyone with -10 security status would be sent to "Eve jail" and be unable to undock for 30 days after the commission of each criminal act in highsec. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24237
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:48:00 -
[587] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:response to criminal activity in highsec should not depend on using a scout or a webber. Good news: it doesn't.
Quote:Those may be helpful for avoiding death between the crime and the CONCORD response, but should not be required to trigger CONCORD acting as a "law enforcement agency." CONCORD is not supposed to act as a law enforcement agency.
Quote:That thread never addressed using bumping falsely imprison gank victims between successive ganks from the exact same gankers. That response was to AFK miners crying that Code bumped them off their asteroid, and required the to come press F1 more often than once an hour. Yes it did. The response is pretty much exactly the same, and a response in relation bumping was posted. You just refused to read, comprehend, and/or accept what was said to you.
Quote:Yes, because in real life the criminals routinely blow away the police forces....*eyeroll* Unfortunately, yes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9393
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:51:00 -
[588] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: What would be nice is if anyone with -10 security status would be sent to "Eve jail" and be unable to undock for 30 days after the commission of each criminal act in highsec.
And here we arrive at the end goal of every carebear. The functional elimination of PvP in highsec.
Trammel. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1101
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:53:00 -
[589] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Yes, because in real life the criminals routinely blow away the police forces....*eyeroll* It's nice to know that wherever you are, law enforcement officers dying in the line of duty is unheard of. That's not true everywhere. [witty image] - Stream |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:56:00 -
[590] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Yes, because in real life the criminals routinely blow away the police forces....*eyeroll* It's nice to know that wherever you are, law enforcement officers dying in the line of duty is unheard of. That's not true everywhere.
It's not nice to know that where you live law enforcement officers quickly responding to harm to their colleagues, and achieving a monopoly of force is unheard of. That is true pretty much everywhere.
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5419
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:59:00 -
[591] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:That thread never addressed using bumping falsely imprison gank victims between successive ganks from the exact same gankers. That response was to AFK miners crying that Code bumped them off their asteroid, and required the to come press F1 more often than once an hour.
GM Karidor wrote:CCP considers the act of bumping a normal game mechanic, and does not class the bumping of another playerGÇÖs ship as an exploit. However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis.
Where, exactly do you find that qualification in their ruling? "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24239
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:59:00 -
[592] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:It's not nice to know that where you live law enforcement officers quickly responding to harm to their colleagues, and achieving a monopoly of force is unheard of. That is true pretty much everywhere. No, that's actually still only the situation in a small set of privileged areas.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 03:02:00 -
[593] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:That thread never addressed using bumping falsely imprison gank victims between successive ganks from the exact same gankers. That response was to AFK miners crying that Code bumped them off their asteroid, and required the to come press F1 more often than once an hour. GM Karidor wrote:CCP considers the act of bumping a normal game mechanic, and does not class the bumping of another playerGÇÖs ship as an exploit. However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis. Where, exactly do you find that qualification in their ruling?
Because it did not address this specific, and unusual, circumstance, which is currently being used by CODE and its allies. And is, as I have pointed out, inconsistent with CONCORD's function "as a law enforcement agency," and with the design of highsec.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24239
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Posted - 2014.08.31 03:05:00 -
[594] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Because it did not address this specific, and unusual, circumstance, which is currently being used by CODE and its allies. That doesn't answer his question: where, exactly do you find your qualification in their ruling?
And yes, it does address that circumstance. It was posted in response to that circumstance.
Quote:And is, as I have pointed out, inconsistent with CONCORD's function "as a law enforcement agency," and with the design of highsec. How is it inconsistent with CONCORD's function as a cost-enforcemement mechanism (because that's what it is GÇö the law enforcement part is just some nonsense you've pulled out of your lower back)? How is it inconsistent with the design of highsec? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9393
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 03:05:00 -
[595] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Because it did not address this specific, and unusual, circumstance, which is currently being used by CODE and its allies.
It was specifically formulated with that in mind, after people cried for a month straight about exactly that.
The answer was, and continues to be, that bumping is not an exploit unless they actually try to get away. Spamming "warp to" a few more times does not constitute actually trying, by the way. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
523
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 03:26:00 -
[596] - Quote
Lord, why hasn't somebody shut down this thread by now? I've seen much more interesting and benign threads closed for less reason than the silly repetitiousness of this one, and there's already another thread about freighter ganking that's longer than War and Peace. If you don't like the mechanics of high sec as they exist then go and find another game; arguing like internet lawyers is not going to change the mechanics of the game, and CCP has made that so clear so many times that this takes pointlessness to a new low.
High sec ganking is a fact of life. Ship bumping is a fact of life. That is the way Eve works. It could not be more simple than that. You cannot argue those practices out of existence. The devs have said they will happily watch the game go down in flames before they will make any player entirely safe in high sec. What more do you need to know? |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5419
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 03:29:00 -
[597] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:That thread never addressed using bumping falsely imprison gank victims between successive ganks from the exact same gankers. That response was to AFK miners crying that Code bumped them off their asteroid, and required the to come press F1 more often than once an hour. GM Karidor wrote:CCP considers the act of bumping a normal game mechanic, and does not class the bumping of another playerGÇÖs ship as an exploit. However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis. Where, exactly do you find that qualification in their ruling? Because it did not address this specific, and unusual, circumstance, which is currently being used by CODE and its allies. And is, as I have pointed out, inconsistent with CONCORD's function "as a law enforcement agency," and with the design of highsec.
Even if CONCORD was designed to be a law enforcement agency, there is nothing illegal in New Eden about bumping. If you'd like to call for bumping to be illegal, enjoy when everyone points out to you the inevitable hilarious results. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 03:42:00 -
[598] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:That thread never addressed using bumping falsely imprison gank victims between successive ganks from the exact same gankers. That response was to AFK miners crying that Code bumped them off their asteroid, and required the to come press F1 more often than once an hour. GM Karidor wrote:CCP considers the act of bumping a normal game mechanic, and does not class the bumping of another playerGÇÖs ship as an exploit. However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis. Where, exactly do you find that qualification in their ruling? Because it did not address this specific, and unusual, circumstance, which is currently being used by CODE and its allies. And is, as I have pointed out, inconsistent with CONCORD's function "as a law enforcement agency," and with the design of highsec. Even if CONCORD was designed to be a law enforcement agency, there is nothing illegal in New Eden about bumping. If you'd like to call for bumping to be illegal, enjoy when everyone points out to you the inevitable hilarious results.
Not sure if you have been following, but I suggested that gank victims get 60 seconds of immunity from bumping so they can fly off.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
8
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Posted - 2014.08.31 03:46:00 -
[599] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Lord, why hasn't somebody shut down this thread by now? I've seen much more interesting and benign threads closed for less reason than the silly repetitiousness of this one, and there's already another thread about freighter ganking that's longer than War and Peace. If you don't like the mechanics of high sec as they exist then go and find another game; arguing like internet lawyers is not going to change the mechanics of the game, and CCP has made that so clear so many times that this takes pointlessness to a new low.
High sec ganking is a fact of life. Ship bumping is a fact of life. That is the way Eve works. It could not be more simple than that. You cannot argue those practices out of existence. The devs have said they will happily watch the game go down in flames before they will make any player entirely safe in high sec. What more do you need to know?
Not clear to me how nerfing ship bumping between ganks makes you "entirely safe." It just means that the gankers only get one shot at you before CONCORD comes. They don't get 2 or 3 or 12 shots, which seems much more reasonable. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5420
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 04:09:00 -
[600] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Not sure if you have been following, but I suggested that gank victims get 60 seconds of immunity from bumping so they can fly off.
In other words, I can render my Freighter perfectly safe by shooting it with a noobship.
Why should someone shooting you make you suddenly incorporeal?
Again, Bumping is not a crime in New Eden. Remember, this is a legal system where vigilante retribution is legal, mass murder of non-capsuleers is either ignored or encouraged, etc. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
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