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Grog Aftermath
Need more grog
82
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:24:00 -
[271] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote: Maybe some of you guys should try it.
You say, to the guy with eleven active characters. Yes, I have tried it, and I know people who have as well. It does not take "weeks".
Chances are you didn't start from scratch on those alts, why would you as your main could give them funds so that they could progress much faster. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9529
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:25:00 -
[272] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote: Maybe some of you guys should try it.
You say, to the guy with eleven active characters. Yes, I have tried it, and I know people who have as well. It does not take "weeks". Chances are you didn't start from scratch on those alts, why would you as your main could give them funds so that they could progress much faster.
Why? Because it's funny, and because it's handy to have to contradict people who try and use the supposed plight of new players to benefit themselves.
Nevermind that, as I have mentioned, friends of mine have done it too. I had one guy be decked out in a full set of +4s by the end of a single month. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9529
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:28:00 -
[273] - Quote
You do realize that pretty much every single thing I do in this game is:
For amusement.
From boredom.
Or out of spite.
I basically don't do anything else. "For the lulz" is my major motivation to play this game at all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
TharOkha
0asis Group
931
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:53:00 -
[274] - Quote
Otuk Andven wrote: Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings
Dude, you can fit a decent rifter for 1M.
Try to join public PvP roams like RvB ganked, Spectre fleet (or bombers bar for bomber fun). There you will learn that PvP can be so ridiculously cheap that even grinding L3 missions can pay your PvP bills
Good luck
CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6849
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:58:00 -
[275] - Quote
Also;
the title should read "Costs of PVP ARE"
OR
"Cost of PVP is" "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6849
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:59:00 -
[276] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote: Even if you do this keep in mind that you still have one advantage over new people, you already know how to play the game.
Experienced player at advantage over new player shock.
This of course never happens in any other game. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:00:00 -
[277] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote:Reading through some of these posts, gives me the impression that a lot of people answering don't really have a clue about being a new character these days, with no mains to send isk and no PLEX to sell.
It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants. Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.
I've started characters through the years which have no boosts from other characters and the best time I remember was when salvage was new, as salvage was expensive and you could make good isk.
PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.
This flat-out isn't true. I am about a year into the game, and I was earning hundreds of millions of ISK my first month in. The biggest problem people like you have is that you try to play solo. I joined a nullsec corp a month into the game and did nothing but scout/set up tacticals/tackle in fleets. I was given hundreds of millions of ISK plus any ships I needed for free by the alliance simply because I was helping out.
Hell, you can run the lower level nullsec anomalies in a low skilled battlecruiser, if you know how to kite/fly without blindly hitting orbit.
If you as a newbie undock and get into lowsec/nullsec, you will make plenty of ISK. I just started a new alt who was blown up by a pirate in lowsec 2 days into the game. I told him I was brand new and got bored with missions, he gave me 25 m for being 'the right kind of new player'.
Get creative, stop mining/missioning in high sec and you will make a lot of ISK as a new player. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12967
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:35:00 -
[278] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Otuk Andven wrote: Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings
Dude, you can fit a decent rifter for 1M.(fit named modules instead of T2) Try to join public PvP roams like RvB ganked, Spectre fleet (or bombers bar for bomber fun). There you will learn that PvP can be so ridiculously cheap that even grinding L3 missions can pay your PvP bills Good luck
I fund my love for Megathrons on lvl 3 missions Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8037
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:40:00 -
[279] - Quote
Since this thread is still going on and most people can't be arsed to reat 14 page I'll restate: pvp" is cheaper now than at any point in EVE's history AND it's easier to make isk and faster to skill up to things that can make isk that at any point. That's the bottom line. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24424
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:44:00 -
[280] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote:Maybe some of you guys should try it. NPC corp., solo no additional funds from mains/alts or PLEX. You understand, I hope, that we've pretty much all tried it. It was part of what led us to still be here todayGǪ
And as Jenn points out, many of us did it when things were far more expensive and ISK was a fair bit harder to come by. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
211
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:50:00 -
[281] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:This is the problem with CCP making things easier for people. new people will come in, not having the context of the past, think things are 'too hard' and keep begging CCP to make things easier still. It's a lot like that in real life too. I grew up with one crummy TV in the house. Now kids are in houses with 5 TV's, Gaming consoles, computers, cell phones, etc. And they still whine...
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8038
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:57:00 -
[282] - Quote
BrundleMeth wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:This is the problem with CCP making things easier for people. new people will come in, not having the context of the past, think things are 'too hard' and keep begging CCP to make things easier still. It's a lot like that in real life too. I grew up with one crummy TV in the house. Now kids are in houses with 5 TV's, Gaming consoles, computers, cell phones, etc. And they still whine...
I've linked this before, but it never stops being true lol.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6029
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:03:00 -
[283] - Quote
Otuk Andven wrote:Fine the Kestrals were actually about 6m but my point still stands.
Nah, you were way off the mark the first time around & still are. The real issue is the mentality people have of 'more expensive is better'. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6861
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:06:00 -
[284] - Quote
A million isk Condor can really mess with anyones day "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:21:00 -
[285] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote: Chances are you didn't start from scratch on those alts, why would you as your main could give them funds so that they could progress much faster.
With all due respect, you seem extremely shortsighted.
I have an alt right now that I am training without sending a single ISK from any other toon. Why? Because I want absolutely no interaction between the new alt and any other character on the API for...reasons...(which is also why I post responses like this from a throwaway alt)
There is more to this game than "queue up the next mission and blap away", which you don't seem to grasp. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1173
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:47:00 -
[286] - Quote
I've done the 'new character no support from main' thing a couple of times. I can't really face into it these days because there is so much charity money/stuff if you do the new player missions that I feel obliged to do them to efficiently get my first ISK together, which makes the first number of hours of play a soul-destroying grind. I don't think I've ever even finished them all, I just went back to playing on my main instead.
Contrast with when I did the same thing back in 2006, when there were no such handouts, and I jumped straight to more fun non-grindy ways of making ISK, as I had when I started my main a few months earlier.
Point is new players get money thrown at them when they start these days. (Or at least did the last time I went through the NPE) [witty image] - Stream |
Leoric Firesword
Dark Fusion Industries
75
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:57:00 -
[287] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote: It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants.
*sigh* you're doing this wrong
Grog Aftermath wrote: Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here.
again, doing this wrong
Grog Aftermath wrote: PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.
you know what I'm going to say here.
Let's try this again kids.
1. It took me 2 days to get my first set of +3's on a brand new character (like literally never played the game before) with no boosts from anyone.
2. Level 1's really? you do those? There's this skill, it's called "Connections" Train it. There's this other skill "Social" train it too. Seriously. Train both of those.
3. I lose way more ships than I kill in pvp. In EVE as in real life you must live within your means. I don't fly expensive ships because I couldn't afford to lose many of those, I fly cheaply fit T1 frigs. My favorite right now is the condor, I think mine is worth something like 1 mil or so isk.
How is this thread still alive? There's so very many ways to fund pvp, and yes, some of those take away from training for pvp, but you need to make a decision, be space poor and whine about how expensive stuff is or figure out better ways to make isk.
The thing about eve is that it takes effort to succeed. You have to read (I know a tall order for the kids of today). |
Vyl Vit
729
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Posted - 2014.09.04 17:37:00 -
[288] - Quote
The cost of PVP is too much for old players, too. What's too much? It costs more than it makes. PVP is a time-honored money sink. Why do you think all the theft, scamming and (even) mining goes on here? TO FUND PVP. PVP doesn't fund itself.
The buy-in costs are on a par. You're a noob, you fight noobs in noob ships. They aren't priced out of hand. You're a noob and you want to fight with the big dogs? TOO DAMN BAD. GROW SOME TEETH, then get back to us.
I get the impression folks like this OP think coming from WoW where they're the boss gives them a special skill set that when they get to EVE will let them OWN US, if only they had the GEAR (which in the OP's case just "costs too much.")
BULLSH*T
You suffer from advanced sucktitude if you're a noob in this game. WoW pawnage won't help you. Get over it and grow. Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
719
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Posted - 2014.09.04 19:40:00 -
[289] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Otuk Andven wrote:Fine the Kestrals were actually about 6m but my point still stands. Nah, you were way off the mark the first time around & still are. The real issue is the mentality people have of 'more expensive is better'.
This certainly does reduce the ability to PvP at an entry level.
A Zealot is 20 Omen and while it's cool to be in the Zealot it doesn't come close to the cost. The real issue being, lose a Zealot, lose 20 Omen, you will lose them and it's what the game needs. I notice more and more Null alliances do place value on that in their recruitment. I'm not going to preach on my pulpit until I **** or get off the pot and go lose some ships in Null but it's a good trend.
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Solette Cheli
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2014.09.05 11:55:00 -
[290] - Quote
PvP is expensive for me. I make like... 1-2m/hour running missions, and with each ship+fits costing that much, pvp is expensive. 1 ship/hour is annoying, since I lose it in <30 minutes. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9540
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Posted - 2014.09.05 11:59:00 -
[291] - Quote
Solette Cheli wrote:PvP is expensive for me. I make like... 1-2m/hour running missions, and with each ship+fits costing that much, pvp is expensive. 1 ship/hour is annoying, since I lose it in <30 minutes.
If your statement is genuine, then you might want to give this forum a visit.
Because, regardless of player age, you should be doing better than that. People can do better with a three day old salvaging alt. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4657
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 12:00:00 -
[292] - Quote
Solette Cheli wrote:PvP is expensive for me. I make like... 1-2m/hour running missions, and with each ship+fits costing that much, pvp is expensive. 1 ship/hour is annoying, since I lose it in <30 minutes. that's not expensive, one ship per hour is fine for a newbie , admittedly 1-2m/hour is low though =][= |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4470
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 12:23:00 -
[293] - Quote
You know, this thread is kinda redundant.
Simple fact is, there just aren't enough newbies trying their hand at PVP because too many of them are being lead astray by themepark highsec corps with no desire for PVP in this PVP game, and told that mining/missioning is the way to go and isk is important.
The fact that the only losses I've experienced lately are to CONCORD is partly testament to this. There are other signs as well, like that clown I stole the corp off, etc.
But the bottom line is, the cost of PVP is irrelevant when the attitude just isn't there. Sure, I've met plenty of newbies that want to PVP. But they are usually hand-picked from a large batch that don't.
If CCP are updating the NPE to expressly advise newbies that they are getting into a PVP experience BEFORE they subscribe, that might make a difference. If they're not, then I don't know what to do. It's one thing to teach someone to PVP if they already want to - it's another entirely to encourage someone to PVP who doesn't want to.
We need to discuss that before we discuss the cost. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5822
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Posted - 2014.09.05 13:16:00 -
[294] - Quote
You're given three characters on each account for a reason.
Train 1 to make money, preferably in a way that doesn't require a large amount of time spent grinding (like working the market or manufacturing).
Train the 2nd to PVP, preferably with one of the many groups that specialize in entry level PVP at low cost.
The third will find it's own path, depending on the choices you make with the first two.
You do NOT have to focus all of your time into training one character, and often it is counter productive. Accumulating skills is not a race, it's a broad strategy. If you like EVE Online and War Thunder content stop by my YouTube channel.-á
Ranger 1 Presents https://www.youtube.com/user/Ranger1Presents |
Talvorian Dex
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
27
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Posted - 2014.09.05 15:16:00 -
[295] - Quote
Otuk Andven wrote:One of the big issues that I feel put players off PVP is the cost. This is especially true for new players.
Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings and rigs, yet for new players going to go into low sec to try pvp that ship is going to die.
Now 10m is a lot, -don't laugh- for new players and I suspect for a lot of people it is a lot. New players can't do incursions and their ISK/hour on missions will be low because of sub-par dps or tank. After 6 months in the game I was still going about 15m an hour in a navy raven doing lv4s.
The result is people spend more time engaged in missioning and mining to fund their pvp activity. Now I had a lot of free time then so I could grind missions for hours to do pvp a lot, (about half a billion worth of it if I remember). However now that I'm in work I doubt I could/would.
And people wonder why half the player base ends up mining/missioning?
How do you make your isk? And how "new" are you thinking? It takes more than 4 months for a truly new player to understand enough about game mechanics to reasonably go off and PvP on their own, let alone having the skills necessary to do it effectively in any way.
In that time, you can do plenty to build up an initial isk bank. When you're done, join RvB to learn more about combat and PvP, all while you continue to build up your skills.
After, travel through low or null and run relic and data sites. Even with minimal skills, this can earn you more than 10 mil per site.
Cost really isn't an issue for players who reach out to learn how to make isk (as you've done). And forum threads like this can help educate those who don't know where to turn.
Most importantly, JOIN A CORP. THEY WILL HELP SHARE KNOWLEDGE AND TIPS. Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4659
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Posted - 2014.09.05 15:22:00 -
[296] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote: How do you make your isk? And how "new" are you thinking? It takes more than 4 months for a truly new player to understand enough about game mechanics to reasonably go off and PvP on their own, let alone having the skills necessary to do it effectively in any way.
In that time, you can do plenty to build up an initial isk bank. When you're done, join RvB to learn more about combat and PvP, all while you continue to build up your skills.
After, travel through low or null and run relic and data sites. Even with minimal skills, this can earn you more than 10 mil per site.
Cost really isn't an issue for players who reach out to learn how to make isk (as you've done). And forum threads like this can help educate those who don't know where to turn.
Most importantly, JOIN A CORP. THEY WILL HELP SHARE KNOWLEDGE AND TIPS.
the underlined just isnt true, one of our new corpies is brand new to the game and kicking ass http://youtu.be/FKXQwDCic18?list=UUHuhv1Rgg9Q1QfWewaH8naw =][= |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4472
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 15:29:00 -
[297] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Talvorian Dex wrote: How do you make your isk? And how "new" are you thinking? It takes more than 4 months for a truly new player to understand enough about game mechanics to reasonably go off and PvP on their own, let alone having the skills necessary to do it effectively in any way.
In that time, you can do plenty to build up an initial isk bank. When you're done, join RvB to learn more about combat and PvP, all while you continue to build up your skills.
After, travel through low or null and run relic and data sites. Even with minimal skills, this can earn you more than 10 mil per site.
Cost really isn't an issue for players who reach out to learn how to make isk (as you've done). And forum threads like this can help educate those who don't know where to turn.
Most importantly, JOIN A CORP. THEY WILL HELP SHARE KNOWLEDGE AND TIPS.
the underlined just isnt true, one of our new corpies is brand new to the game and kicking ass http://youtu.be/FKXQwDCic18?list=UUHuhv1Rgg9Q1QfWewaH8naw
Yah, agreed. I had one guy with barely 2mil SP in RIGID just go out in a low-skill Comet fit one day and bust an '06 in a T2 fit PVP Rifter. It doesn't take four months at all, it takes the right attitude on the part of the learner, and the right encouragement on the part of the teacher(s). This isn't Skill Queues Online. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24434
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 15:30:00 -
[298] - Quote
See sig. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4660
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 15:38:00 -
[299] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: Yah, agreed. I had one guy with barely 2mil SP in RIGID just go out in a low-skill Comet fit one day and bust an '06 in a T2 fit PVP Rifter. It doesn't take four months at all, it takes the right attitude on the part of the learner, and the right encouragement on the part of the teacher(s). This isn't Skill Queues Online.
http://youtu.be/ikssfUhAlgg =][= |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1177
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 16:23:00 -
[300] - Quote
Solette Cheli wrote:I make like... 1-2m/hour running missions mfw [witty image] - Stream |
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