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JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
297
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Posted - 2014.08.29 20:50:00 -
[241] - Quote
If you really think that it's too high, OP, you should run a league of voluntary PvP where you have to stop shooting when you hit structure.
(but really, even a new player can get cheap, under-competitive ships) The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
516
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Posted - 2014.08.29 21:02:00 -
[242] - Quote
Most of these arguments are on the assumption that "PvP" is nothing more than throwing hulls at the insurance system. In EVE the ability to engage in meaningful PvP has a huge cost of years of dedication that will almost certainly end in failure for anyone who doesn't play EVE on a third party level.
If your idea of PvP in EVE is T1 cruiser pew-pew then no, EVE isn't too costly. If you want Sov and Moon mining and T2 manufacturing and to be an empire in EVE and you just started? Forget it. Those bridges burned to a cinder 9 years ago. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4425
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Posted - 2014.08.29 21:29:00 -
[243] - Quote
relivant (and awesome) http://youtu.be/S_YMzQdq38s?list=UUPMMxRNlK-pdU9qG5vfcMKA =][= |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1094
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Posted - 2014.08.29 22:47:00 -
[244] - Quote
Ioci wrote:If your idea of PvP in EVE is T1 cruiser pew-pew then no, EVE isn't too costly. If you want Sov and Moon mining and T2 manufacturing and to be an empire in EVE and you just started? Forget it. That escalated quickly. [witty image] - Stream |
Velarra
317
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Posted - 2014.08.29 22:57:00 -
[245] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW9yj8S1GB8
Oh, and ftp over fidonet was great too. ^.^ |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
816
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Posted - 2014.08.29 23:31:00 -
[246] - Quote
The only newbies who can't afford pvp are the ones that listen to people in the noobcorps and buy stupid ships with stupid fittings. Join a real corp.
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Tweek Etimua
The Paragons
76
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Posted - 2014.08.30 00:34:00 -
[247] - Quote
Otuk Andven wrote:One of the big issues that I feel put players off PVP is the cost. This is especially true for new players.
Its a well known fact that pvp cost money, an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK depending on fittings and rigs, yet for new players going to go into low sec to try pvp that ship is going to die.
Now 10m is a lot, -don't laugh- for new players and I suspect for a lot of people it is a lot. New players can't do incursions and their ISK/hour on missions will be low because of sub-par dps or tank. After 6 months in the game I was still going about 15m an hour in a navy raven doing lv4s.
The result is people spend more time engaged in missioning and mining to fund their pvp activity. Now I had a lot of free time then so I could grind missions for hours to do pvp a lot, (about half a billion worth of it if I remember). However now that I'm in work I doubt I could/would.
And people wonder why half the player base ends up mining/missioning? Your prices are off but your concept has truth but the reason why new players can't earn enough isk to pvp is multiboxers. I will never be multi boxing....never. Multiboxing has ended up being the only way to play eve with a lax wallet. When I was a new player and now, there are alot of things I had planned on doing as my eve career but turned out that because of multi boxing it wasn't going to happen. It seems that CCP intended that people would hire actual people to get things done. What happend was that the community found a way, like it always does, to get around it. And as I understand it CCP could and has the ability to limit open clients and doesn't. Since I don't multi I can only guess that a majority of players use real money. If that's true CCP would loose money. But if they would shut down multiboxing they would have a lot of bitter vets threadnaughts. They would have to hope that the news would draw back old players and new players to fill the void that the multiboxing accounts left. Not to mention the awsome caos that would ensue in the game.
However your issue it with isk earnings and pvp. The way ccp aproached the high risk gamestyle is to make loosing a ship a real pain. The idea of playing eve like other games where you login and pvp after doing 1 or 2 jobs nulifies the amount of risk ccp wanted to convey. |
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
100
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Posted - 2014.08.30 01:15:00 -
[248] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Black Panpher wrote:I see a lot of people saying you don't need t2 modules on a t1 frig. These people are idiots and will die to every other correctly fitted t1 frig. You know that T2 isn't always better, right? Only an idiot would suggest that T2 modules are necessary and that you will die without them.
T2 modules in a 1v1 fight are important. Any ship T1 fit vs the exact same ship with the same modules only T2 will get sploded. It's simple math. Additionally, the fact that you can fit T2 gear shows you at least have a decent amount of SP, which are the keys to a better tank, better DPS, etc.
Yes there are some exceptions which you are always keen to point out, but they are not the rule.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9335
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Posted - 2014.08.30 01:16:00 -
[249] - Quote
Hadrian Blackstone wrote: Yes there are some exceptions which you are always keen to point out, but they are not the rule.
Which is precisely what Tippia said.
"You know that T2 isn't always better, right?" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
186
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Posted - 2014.08.30 02:31:00 -
[250] - Quote
Frigates are cheap and very valuable. Besides, there is a lot of isk in FW. Just capture a novice defensive complex and you can replace a navy ship like the slicer or firetail and still profit. |
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Jenni LaCroix
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.08.30 15:52:00 -
[251] - Quote
Torneach Structor wrote:Otuk Andven wrote:an average t1 frigate is going to set you back about 10m ISK Where in the world are you getting a T1 frigate plus fittings for 10M? Like, seriously. Cause where I am (Amarr) an average frigate hull is around 300k. No way in hell is anybody putting 9.7m in fittings on a T1 frigate.
you and obviously the other few noobs that gave you likes apparently have no idea about pvp... if you fit a tristan with a web, scram, plate, drone damage amps and drones as well as 3 neuts, you are looking at already 7-8 mio isk... and often those type of ships kill faction and t2 frigs so yeah, please do not talk out of your rears. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24221
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Posted - 2014.08.30 16:18:00 -
[252] - Quote
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:T2 modules in a 1v1 fight are important. Learning not to get suckered into a 1v1 and to evaluate your target is even more important.
Quote:Any ship T1 fit vs the exact same ship with the same modules only T2 will get sploded. Only on paper. The great thing is that GÇ£simple mathGÇ¥ does not even tell half of the story. The other great thing is that those kind of match-ups never happen GÇö they're a paper product with somewhere between zero and no relation to the realities of the game. The whole notion that you somehow must have T2 presupposes a kind of jousting combat that is so exceedingly rare that it borders on the irrelevant, which renders the entire base notion irrelevant as well. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20568
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Posted - 2014.08.30 19:37:00 -
[253] - Quote
^^ If you're involved in a 1v1 you make it a 2v1. The only fair fights are the ones you win. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
465
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Posted - 2014.08.30 19:45:00 -
[254] - Quote
Just blapped a BC with my t1 frigate with a mix of t2 and meta 3/4 mods. It was a glorious struggle which cost me my favorite hobgoblin II drone, which I had named 'Fluffy'. Fluffy's passing did cause me some distress, but I'm sure with time and a suitable dosage of whiskey I will get over it. Sadly this kill did not quite drop enough loots to pay for my next t1 frigate plus mods, but I'm certain that the next one will. PVP doesn't cost too much to get into, just don't spend all your cash on your ship and don't go into it broke. Oftentimes the modules you loot from your actual kills will more than pay for the hulls and modules you've lost when it turned out it was YOUR turn to wear the clown pants and put the f'n ballgag on. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20568
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:04:00 -
[255] - Quote
^^ Fluffy is dead, long live the new Fluffy. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
466
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:11:00 -
[256] - Quote
This month alone I've probably netted close to 300m iskies from drops in PVP. I've lost 3 frigs with a total value of 0.07b isk, while destroying 1.54b isk in the process. The only reason my loss cost is so high is that I tried out a ship that I wasn't really skilled (as a player, not a character) in flying. Newbros should NOT fear getting out there and getting their pew on due to costs unless they're putting a significant chunk of their bankroll into each ship. Go forth, wreak havoc, and in the name of all that is holy and hard, have some freaking fun doing it! |
Aurora Tali
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2014.09.04 10:43:00 -
[257] - Quote
No one wants to be the Small one XD i joined Brave in my First month (1.5month ago) and wanted it Big plexed my Account and lost 1.5bil :-D. Yeah i also killed and destroyed ships for 1.1bil but when i would have listened to the Dojo start small be usefull as Ewar or tackle frig i think i would still have some isk left from the 1.5bil . Just wanted to say if you want to fly your BC do it ;-) but you can do pvp cheaper till you stop being an easy killmail |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
167
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Posted - 2014.09.04 10:56:00 -
[258] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:The only newbies who can't afford pvp are the ones that listen to people in the noobcorps and buy stupid ships with stupid fittings. Join a real corp.
Like Brave Newbies [Sboon] for instance...
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4433
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Posted - 2014.09.04 10:59:00 -
[259] - Quote
I try to remember what it was like when I was new, but then I remember how far I've come with very little help.
I'm not entirely heartless though. If I find a newbro that has the right attitude, I'm more than happy to finance his frigate losses in their entirety up until he feels confident with his abilities. I'll even cover really stupid frigate losses if he's capable of figuring out his own mistakes for himself.
I'm going to be starting a proper PVP apprenticeship program soon with a focus on quality over quantity - train one newbro really well instead of a whole 'class' generically. I'm still working out a few minor details but my experience training newbros so far has resulted in at least four very good PVP'ers that I taught what I could, and who will learn the rest for themselves. There may be others but I never kept track of them. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
heheheh
Phoenix Club
4
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Posted - 2014.09.04 11:00:00 -
[260] - Quote
This game is too much for some people to handle, there is nothing to gain by whining, we were all new players once and we did just fine, now toddle off back to wow. |
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4434
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Posted - 2014.09.04 11:01:00 -
[261] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:^^ If you're involved in a 1v1 you make it a 2v1. The only fair fights are the ones you win.
I fought a 2v1 just the other day...
Nearly got both of them. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Grog Aftermath
Need more grog
82
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Posted - 2014.09.04 11:24:00 -
[262] - Quote
Reading through some of these posts, gives me the impression that a lot of people answering don't really have a clue about being a new character these days, with no mains to send isk and no PLEX to sell.
It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants. Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.
I've started characters through the years which have no boosts from other characters and the best time I remember was when salvage was new, as salvage was expensive and you could make good isk.
PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12964
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 11:41:00 -
[263] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote: It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants.
One day of blitzing level 2 missions in a basic cruiser.
Grog Aftermath wrote: Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.
We love our newbees
Grog Aftermath wrote: PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.
We pvp in 300 to 100 billion isk ships. Newbees pvp in 1.3 mil ships. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9528
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 11:44:00 -
[264] - Quote
Oh, great good God, it does NOT take "weeks" to afford +3s.
That is just a blatant falsehood. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Grog Aftermath
Need more grog
82
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Posted - 2014.09.04 11:52:00 -
[265] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote: It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants.
One day of blitzing level 2 missions in a basic cruiser. Grog Aftermath wrote: Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.
We love our newbeesGrog Aftermath wrote: PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.
We pvp in 300 to 100 billion isk ships. Newbees pvp in 1.3 mil ships.
I wouldn't say your corp. is typical of most.
Also blitzing level 2's won't happens until you've done further train, you can't do them with the basic starter skill set. Anyway I doubt even blitzing level 2's would raise enough in one day. missioning ALL day, one way to get completely bored with the game. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12964
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 11:59:00 -
[266] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote:baltec1 wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote: It can take weeks just to get enough for a set of +3 implants.
One day of blitzing level 2 missions in a basic cruiser. Grog Aftermath wrote: Also consider that most new characters (not alts) are in NPC corps and level 1 missions don't pay much and you can't really consider mining as a way of making money as you would be learning the wrong skill sets as it's PvP we're talking about here. Of course you could argue join a player corp, but the fact is at the start a lot are just finding their feet, plus most corps. won't want them anyway as they don't meet the sp requirement or could be spy alts.
We love our newbeesGrog Aftermath wrote: PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.
We pvp in 300 to 100 billion isk ships. Newbees pvp in 1.3 mil ships. I wouldn't say your corp. is typical of most. Also blitzing level 2's won't happens until you've done further train, you can't do them with the basic starter skill set. Anyway I doubt even blitzing level 2's would raise enough in one day. missioning ALL day, one way to get completely bored with the game.
My alt was blitzing level 2s 5 days after birth. I bought a full set of low grade warp speed implants after a week of blitzing level 2s (back when they cost 1.2 billion). Because of this thread I will be starting up a new pvp alt soon. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Grog Aftermath
Need more grog
82
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:09:00 -
[267] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Oh, great good God, it does NOT take "weeks" to afford +3s.
That is just a blatant falsehood.
That's from a character, from day 1, obviously the older the character the quicker it is to get isk.
If you go the PLEX route on day 1, you could fit them the same day or at least day 2 as you would need to do the training missions to raise enough to be able to sell one PLEX on the market.
Maybe some of you guys should try it. NPC corp., solo no additional funds from mains/alts or PLEX. Edit: Even if you do this keep in mind that you still have one advantage over new people, you already know how to play the game. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9529
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:12:00 -
[268] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote: Maybe some of you guys should try it.
You say, to the guy with eleven active characters.
Yes, I have tried it, and I know people who have as well. It does not take "weeks". "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8035
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 12:13:00 -
[269] - Quote
Grog Aftermath wrote: PvP is expensive in general, if it wasn't then many of you wouldn't need alt accounts just so that you could raise the funds to be able to afford to PvP. Which we hear people saying on this form many times over the years.
Alt accounts aren't about expense, they are about convenience . When I had just the one account I had to jump or death clone back to my alliance's space to make isk when nothing was going on, and sure as **** as soon as I did, something would start going on lol. That's where this character was born and I eventually sold my actual 1st character and just made another character for pvp.
Alts usually don't bring in any extra isk that you'd not get otherwise except for those people who do the isboxer thing, they just make the game a lot less tedious.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9529
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:23:00 -
[270] - Quote
I disagree on one point there Jenn.
That being that alts don't make isk. Trading alts rake that in, even if you suck at it like me. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
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