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Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1175
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Posted - 2014.08.30 17:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I have an alt that has been station camping for months and will be for a few months more as I have a demanding RL Job with a boss that doesn't seem to understand my addiction to Eve.
Anyways I was looking at long skills to train and she is mapped for Wil / Per the only skill I have left to train on that map is Black Ops V and HIC V. I never saw the need to train those up to V but since I need something that gives me a few weeks to get back to my PC and internet I am considering it.
So my point, has anyone else trained these to V and is it worth it or should I be looking for something else to train as these skill are irrelevant for day to day use. The pilot is just shy of 100mil sp, Lasers, Hybrids, Proj, Drones and all sub cap ships I am interested in to V (Yes I left out training missiles).
Oh yeah two remaps available.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
859
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Posted - 2014.08.31 01:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Probly depends on what you see yourself flying. If cost/loss is an issue, then HIC V puts you in a very important ship, with good skills, for less $ loss. I think the skill bonus is MORE effective for these ships than it is for BLOPS.
BLOPS is a skill where you need fleet support and several pilots have to be on the same page. I'm sure that level V is noticeable to pilots who actually use BLOPS, but their ships is not meant for primary DPS or primary tank. Except for the Widow, I don't think the skill adds AS MUCH to the ship over all. If you don't see that in your near future, move on to something else. If you're just (s)killing time, it's as good as anything to have done and over with. |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
481
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Posted - 2014.08.31 14:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you have remaps available, and you really don't want those 2, you might as well switch to something else.
The general consensus I've seen, however, is it is definitely worth it to take T2 cruiser skills to level 5. Especially if you're will/per to get the maximum bonus. If you really don't fly black ops much then probably don't want to worry about that, but HIC 5 is definitely good to get if you use them at all. |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1175
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Posted - 2014.08.31 15:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks for the input, I guess with this map it's only 51 days for both of them to V, and I think the extra range on the Blops might be useful some days. So I guess finishing it up is a good idea since the next Map will be for all the Cap crap (back to mem/intel for a 330 days to finish).
In the larger picture I guess it's better to do it now and possibly not need it, than need it later and have to waste 20 extra days to train it.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4091
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Posted - 2014.08.31 22:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:Thanks for the input, I guess with this map it's only 51 days for both of them to V, and I think the extra range on the Blops might be useful some days. So I guess finishing it up is a good idea since the next Map will be for all the Cap crap (back to mem/intel for a 330 days to finish).
In the larger picture I guess it's better to do it now and possibly not need it, than need it later and have to waste 20 extra days to train it. There is no range bonus from Black Ops 5. |
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1177
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks Tau, I was working on apparently really old information on the Blops. :D
Finished Grav 5 awhile ago (Cap tractor beam II, don't ask, at the time it seemed relevant) so my main though was, Is 5% bonus to Warp Disruption Field scramble range worth it?
<-- Hopeless flip flopper
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
641
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Posted - 2014.09.01 01:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:Thanks Tau, I was working on apparently really old information on the Blops. :D
Finished Grav 5 awhile ago (Cap tractor beam II, don't ask, at the time it seemed relevant) so my main though was, Is 5% bonus to Warp Disruption Field scramble range worth it?
<-- Hopeless flip flopper
yes it is very worth it in my opinion. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
456
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Posted - 2014.09.02 21:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Goldiiee wrote:Thanks for the input, I guess with this map it's only 51 days for both of them to V, and I think the extra range on the Blops might be useful some days. So I guess finishing it up is a good idea since the next Map will be for all the Cap crap (back to mem/intel for a 330 days to finish).
In the larger picture I guess it's better to do it now and possibly not need it, than need it later and have to waste 20 extra days to train it. There is no range bonus from Black Ops 5. All: 125% ship max velocity while cloaked Redeemer: 7.5% large energy turret tracking Widow: 30% ECM target jammer strength Sin: 5% ship inertia [agility] Panther: 5% ship max velocity This change was made In Retribution 1.1.1, released Wednesday, 20th of February 2013. The base range went from 1.5 ly to 3.5 ly (same as titans), so the Black Ops skill effect was changed. Note that OLD BLOPS Range = 1.5 ly * (1 + Black Ops 5 * 10%) = 2.25 ly which is less than the new base range. JDC of course still applies, and is worth training to 5 for range. [I think it should be a prerequisite for any ship with a jump drive!] For a HIC, Graviton 5 is more useful (T2 generator) than HIC 5.
I disagree with the ".. should be a prerequisite..." - That's a null fleet-ops only type mindset.
You seem to forget about wormhole uses where those Jump Drives are pretty worthless. I also know plenty of carrier pilots who don't have that at 5 and haul stuff around readily enough in their private carriers.
As for the skills: Yes I have both at 5 - "old school" style training on BOPs... It's not really important anymore.
HIC 5 ... Nice to have but, as you point out, Graviton Physics is better to get that T2 fitted. It does add range to infinipoint and bubbles but with Graviton giving T2, it's not as important/valuable as it once was. Just "nice to have".
So if it's just a choice between just those 2, I'd say go with HIC 5 but if there are other options - look at them closer. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4099
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Posted - 2014.09.02 22:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:[I think it should be a prerequisite for any ship with a jump drive!] I disagree with the ".. should be a prerequisite..." - That's a null fleet-ops only type mindset. You seem to forget about wormhole uses where those Jump Drives are pretty worthless. I also know plenty of carrier pilots who don't have that at 5 and haul stuff around readily enough in their private carriers. Because of the short 3.5 ly base range for jumping and bridging, JDC 5 is especially useful for Black Ops.
Some major alliances require JDC 5 for capital pilots (or you have to handle your own cyno mid-points).
I "grew-up" in w-space (my first ~2.75 years of EVE). I trained JDC 5 because it was easier to get a Rorqual into and out of the system (it was easier to jump my carrier). When you only get a random (non-static) nulsec wormhole, you don't get to pick and choose. In the amount of time it took to train level 5, there wasn't a suitable wormhole close enough with only JDC 4.
It became a running-joke in my corp that the nulsec wormhole would always go to somewhere useless, like the drone-lands. Second only to a freighter-sized hisec connection to Aridia!
I was the last of my corp to get a capital into the w-space system, and later to leave the w-space system, simply because I couldn't jump far enough.
Having only JDC 4 really limits your choices when looking for a NPC station system. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
457
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Posted - 2014.09.02 23:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Mocam wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:[I think it should be a prerequisite for any ship with a jump drive!] I disagree with the ".. should be a prerequisite..." - That's a null fleet-ops only type mindset. You seem to forget about wormhole uses where those Jump Drives are pretty worthless. I also know plenty of carrier pilots who don't have that at 5 and haul stuff around readily enough in their private carriers. Because of the short 3.5 ly base range for jumping and bridging, JDC 5 is especially useful for Black Ops. Some major alliances require JDC 5 for capital pilots (or you have to handle your own cyno mid-points). I "grew-up" in w-space (my first ~2.75 years of EVE). I trained JDC 5 because it was easier to get a Rorqual into and out of the system (it was easier to jump my carrier). When you only get a random (non-static) nulsec wormhole, you don't get to pick and choose. In the amount of time it took to train level 5, there wasn't a suitable wormhole close enough with only JDC 4. It became a running-joke in my corp that the nulsec wormhole would always go to somewhere useless, like the drone-lands. Second only to a freighter-sized hisec connection to Aridia! I was the last of my corp to get a capital into the w-space system, and later to leave the w-space system, simply because I couldn't jump far enough. Having only JDC 4 really limits your choices when looking for a NPC station system.
JDC means nothing for carrier and dread pilots doing escalations in w-space.
As with HIC's 5 - it's only potentially nice to have being as a huge number of capitals are "stuck" in w-space and will never leave.
Carriers trained to 4 exceed every other jump ship's range in the game. None of them trained to 5 can match it so it's not needed to keep up with capital fleets even outside of w-space.
As you say, many null groups do require it -- lots of them want carrier pilots up to 5's and into supers eventually vs staying in capitals but plenty of null pilots don't have that skill for their personal carrier uses being as 13 jump range is far enough.
Don't get me wrong about it not being a good idea, especially for BOP's at the 3.5ly range but there are a lot of pilots who have no use for taking an extra month of training just as a "prereq" that won't add value to how they operate.
Besides, having a "new skill" that prevents you from flying due to instantly being a prereq to *ALL* jump capable capitals would be pretty rank and rude. Best to just remove the skill entirely at that point and make all ships max range base-line vs such a stunt. |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
27
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Posted - 2014.09.05 18:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would only recommend black ops v if you use the widow |
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1177
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Posted - 2014.09.05 20:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:I would only recommend black ops v if you use the widow I can fly it I just never have, been in a Sin, Panther and Redeemer so I imagine it won't be long till I find myself in a Widow as well.
Anyways I am finishing up HIC V in 15 days and then dropping Blop V in, figure I might as well as it's much easier to train that with my work schedule than something I might have to add on to every two days.
And if I ever get around to flying a Widow it'll be a bonus.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
18255
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Posted - 2014.09.07 01:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
serial min-max skillqueuer here.
I leave some skills for later, whose attributes are not convenient (anything that is not intel/mem or per/wil). those skills I've left until after 275 million SP. like, at the very very end when all the useful min-max training is complete.
black ops *is* one such skill, but HIC is not.
if you're on the remap already, might as well finish it up, imo. i mean, when is the next time you'd go back to the T2 ship remap, and can you say beyond doubt that you will not find yourself in that role until then.
ITT stay in it, finish them. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
296
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Posted - 2014.09.10 01:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 to Mocam here. I have Graviton Physics V but HIC IV and have never felt the need to max the HIC skill. No one has ever even asked me if I have HIC V, as long as I can field the T2 bubble, they are satisfied. |
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